So why are you a Duke fan again, Hoggman? Because I'm sure the reason is worth its weight in gold.

2/6/2006 7:33:05 PM

Come on dude, I'm really curious to know. Don't give me the cold shoulder. You come off on our messageboard as a cynical douchenozzle about our ridicule of a team you'd rather pull for than your alma maters, yet won't give us a reason why you pull for them?

Sounds like a bitch move to me.

2/6/2006 7:40:26 PM

so someone should stop liking a team when they notice theyre dominant? i know you guys are frustrated with duke fans. i know alot of duke fans are bandwagon. but you cant just stereotype and assume all duke fans are. if duke finished 12th in the acc they would still be my favorite team.

i grew up with my grandmother who was a duke fan because my aunt is big at duke. from when i started paying attention to bball till when i was 6 the only team i ever saw was duke with my grandma. when i was 6 we went to a state maryland game for my moms bday (state alumn but wasnt big on bball) thats when state became my 2nd favorite team. blue being my favorite color as a child probobly helped (blue room and some duke stuff. i still have a picture i drew in first grade of dukes court). 94 or around then was probobly the first year i became die hard and started watching duke games by myself and duke wasnt even that good in the collins years and when coach k sat out. after this point i was also watching every duke or ncstate football game i could find on tv (well before i even understood football).

(lol i remember one time i saw in the paper that the duke game at reynolds was later that night so i put on my stuff and said lets go. i was so upset that i went on strike and sat in the kitchen refusing to watch the game for the first few minutes. )

i also always wanted to be a doctor and go to duke (like my aunt). my interest in meteorology grew more and more and surpassed my interest to be a doctor when i realized how hard and (not fun) being a doctor would be. (that and hurricanes being the most beautiful thing ever) when i got to highschool and realized i wanted to do meteorology duke was out of the question.

BITCHES

2/6/2006 9:27:40 PM

^Ghey


You should stop following Duke, Period. I was also a Duke fan, my stepdad went there, and I started watching them when they won the NC back to back.

I even had a hard time not pulling for them my senior year in high school when State upset them.

But then I came here.

Then I realized like any sane human being that your school takes priority over any other school. I still watch Duke, and I'll pull for them out of conference and I have a respect for their program.

The first game we played against them I pulled against them harder than I ever thought possible. Ever since then its been on. FUCK DUKE (in conference)

Your faggotry about Duke is ridiculous. Dont give me this "oh its win win when they play each other". Thats just pure bullshit. If you're gonna be a state fan, be a state fan, otherwise get the fuck out.

2/6/2006 9:51:53 PM

dude, just root for your team for the sake for rooting for them, fuck what anyone else thinks. If you want to be a Duke/Spurs/Patriots/Yankees fan than go ahead, who gives a shit?

2/6/2006 9:56:19 PM

shut up n00b...real sports fans hate those types of fans

2/6/2006 9:58:28 PM

^^ME.

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 9:59 PM. Reason : dfhas]

2/6/2006 9:59:04 PM

Quote :

"blue being my favorite color as a child probobly helped"

2/6/2006 10:00:40 PM

you act like me cheering for duke is gonna somehow hurt state. like i have something to do with it.

im just a duke and state fan. i could care less about the pros but i cheer for local teams and players i lik or players i followed at state or duke.

^i knew that was gonna be used out of context

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 10:07 PM. Reason : lol]

2/6/2006 10:06:03 PM

Point is fool. You go here. You don't have ANY association with Duke University. That is what people have a problem with. You cannot pull for both and let people know it.

2/6/2006 10:07:12 PM

I didnt say shit about you affecting State.


I'm saying you are a faggot for pulling for another school as much as you pull for your own...especially a rival school.


Now comming from to State from California and pulling for UCLA and State equally is fine. But DUKE??

Too close in proximity...stop talking about Duke

2/6/2006 10:09:24 PM

i would love to know a % of true fans that have an association with the university.

if for whatever reason you and your family moved to iran today should you start hating america?

"if you truly love someone/something you cant just turn it off, if so then you probobly never loved it in the first place."

may have been the most true thing anyone ever told me


^if i went to unc my opinion of the 3 teams wouldnt change one bit

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 10:17 PM. Reason : i would still hate unc like duke/state in sports. sports and academics are not the same thing]

2/6/2006 10:15:41 PM

as much as I hate most of your posts, that quote is pretty good.

2/6/2006 10:19:41 PM

Im from durham, born and raised in the same house about 5 minutes from cameron. Ive been going to duke games since i could walk. Ive been there for hurleys, williams, heymans, and mullins jersey ceremonies. Ive been going to duke football games over the same time period too. I still remember the days of dave brown, ray farmer, richmond flowers, scottie montgomery, corey thomas, etc. Where i went to college has nothing to do with who i pull for. I came here for my major and that is the only reason. Im sure the reasons i pull for duke and always will are sufficient for yall but i really could care less. So there you go. Im sure it is wrong in your opinion but oh well what you think matters about as much as everyone else on here and that is for shit.

2/6/2006 10:30:49 PM

socrates, who are you?

2/6/2006 10:33:21 PM

he's socrates duh.

Hopefully he'll drink a cup of hemlock soon and fucking die.

2/6/2006 10:36:48 PM

^/thread

2/6/2006 10:40:56 PM

i dare any of you to go buy a striped shirt and a whistle and try officiating

you know you can't handle it

2/7/2006 12:00:17 AM

I can't handle flying a plane either, but I know when I see a plane crash the pilot fucked up.

2/7/2006 12:25:40 AM

Remember team

If you're down by 3, and under 6 foot 3, dont drive the lane against the best big man in the ACC for a layup

the more you know

2/7/2006 1:02:26 AM

Basically the team you chose as a stupid little kid in North Carolina growing up is more important than the team whose institution gives you your degree, the team in which you essentially paid for to put together, and the team whose messageboard you're on.

We learn a lot from these people.

And that's important.

2/7/2006 8:48:59 AM

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2/7/2006 8:51:12 AM

Im in here because i like to talk sports. Its amusing as well to see people spend countless hours on here talking about how everyone is against nc state and how everyone favors duke unfairly. Its just amusing to me. Yes, the school gave me the degree. But last i checked, herb sendek or chuck amato didnt teach any of my classes. Lee fowler didnt hand me my degree at graduation. WHERE YOU GO TO SCHOOL SHOULD HAVE NO EFFECT ON WHO YOU PULL FOR. If you go to a school just because you like their sports teams then you missed the boat on going to college. You are right, I have no connection to duke other than the fact that my grandpa helped build parts of it. But im not going to change my team based on where i go to school. thats just ridiculous.

2/7/2006 9:46:39 AM

just got this off of the duke board. it is long but thought it might be good for some discussion. excerpt of an article by al featherson.

But those are just anecdotal events. Over the long course of a season, are the officials biased toward Duke?

A year ago, I did a study for the ACC Sports Journal, trying to track officiating bias in the ACC. I crunched a lot of numbers and talked to a lot of people to see if the widespread perception of pro-Duke officiating bias had any basis in fact.

Let me summarize what those numbers showed. To get a scientific breakdown, I measured free throw differential in all ACC regular season games over a 10-year period (1995-2004). By measuring differential, it eliminated the bias that tempo can inject (teams that play faster commit more fouls, but also are fouled more often). By sticking to conference games, I kept the same officiating pools and eliminated the differences that could crop up because of varying strength of schedules. Since the ACC played a balanced schedule in those years, I got a fair home and home balance.

I don’t have time to update the study for the last year and a half, but here’s what I found for the previous 10 years:

* The home team usually gets the calls: A sample of 20 different teams from five different seasons shows that every single one had a better FT differential at home than on the road. The 20-team average was 80.5 more free throws a season at home than on the road _ an average of almost exactly five free throws a game.

* The best teams get the calls: This shows up two ways. Over the 10 years studied, the relationship between ACC finish and FT differential is nearly a perfect curve (note: in cases where there was a tie in the standings, the FT differential was averaged and used for both positions):

The 10 first place teams averaged a plus 95.5 differential. That means that teams that won or tied for the ACC regular season title averaged shooting 95.5 more free throws per ACC season than their opponents shot against them _ that’s an average of almost six more free throws a game.

* Second place: plus 49.9
* Third place: plus 23.4
* Fourth place: plus 14.2
* Fifth place: minus 5.2
* Sixth place: minus 34.3
* Seventh place: minus 46.6
* Eighth place: minus 44.1
* Ninth place: minus 56.3

We get similar results when we compare various ACC records with FT differential:

* 16-0 (one team): plus 126
* 15-1 (three teams): plus 113.3
* 14-2 (no teams)
* 13-3 (eight teams): plus 90.3
* 12-4 (six teams): plus 64.2
* 11-5 (six teams): plus 18.7
* 10-6 (four teams): plus 14.0
* 9-7 (10 teams): plus 21.7
* 8-8 (six teams): minus 13.0
* 7-9 (10 teams): minus 20.9
* 6-10 (12 teams): minus 32.1
* 5-11 (nine teams): minus 62.1
* 4-12 (nine teams): minus 50.2
* 3-13 (four teams): minus 21.5
* 2-12 (two teams): minus 80.0

There are a couple of blips that I would attribute to the small size of the sample _ 9-7 teams have a slightly better differential than 10-6 teams and 3-13 teams have almost exactly the same differential as 7-9 teams! Still, the breakdown shows what we would expect _ on the whole, the better teams have a better FT differential.

So how does this apply to Duke and the perception that the Devils benefit from an officiating bias?

When I broke down the numbers by team, I found that over the 10 years of the study, Duke had the second-best FT differential (a cumulative plus 473), behind UNC (plus 542). Over the last five years of the study, Duke has the best FT differential (plus 333), ahead of Wake Forest (plus 176) and UNC (plus 168).

But Duke also has the best ACC record over both spans. Was Duke really getting the benefit of the whistles or were the FT numbers what you’d expect for such a successful team?

When I compared Duke’s yearly FT numbers and its yearly finish and measured that against the ACC average, a surprising pattern became clear.

Duke finished first in the ACC six times in the 10 years of the study. As I noted, the ACC average for first-place teams was a plus 95.5 FT differential. Duke was better than that twice _ in 1999 and 2000. Duke was below the average four times. The Devils also finished second twice _ both times with FT differentials below the ACC average for second-place finishers. And in its fourth-place finish in 1996, Duke was at minus 36 _ well below the ACC average.

That’s seven times in 10 years that Duke’s FT differential was LESS than expected.

If you compare FT differential with ACC records, Duke shows up above the ACC average just once in its top seven seasons _ in 2000 (although there’s no comparison for Duke’s 16-0 mark in 1999).

The study did show that there may be something to Gary Williams’ constant griping. Maryland finished below the expected FT differential six times in the 10 years, including 1999, when a 13-3 team was at minus 39, and in 2000 when an 11-5 team was at minus 50. Those are the two most out-of-whack FT differential numbers in the study.

So who was getting the calls, if not Duke or Maryland?

Wake Forest is one team that has accumulated better FT numbers than its record would predict, especially in the last two years of the study. And while not covered in the study, the Deacons finished last year with the best FT differential in ACC play (plus 107), just ahead of UNC (plus 100) and well ahead of Duke (plus 73).

But the one team that had the most consistently impressive numbers in the study was North Carolina, which surpassed its expected FT differential in the seven straight seasons. Here’s one interesting tidbit to chew on: over the last five seasons of the study, UNC and N.C. State had exactly the same 40-40 ACC record. UNC’s FT differential over that span was plus 168 ... N.C. State’s was minus 75.

Maybe the era of “Carolina refs” is not dead.

The feedback I got from the people I talked during my research was interesting. I talked to four former ACC officials, who all agreed that while there was no bias toward Duke, the atmosphere in Cameron and Krzyzewski’s sideline demeanor could provide the Devils with an advantage.

“There is a perception out there that the floor is uneven at Cameron,” one former ACC official said. “There is probably a group who feel that [former ACC director of officials Fred Barakat] is so powerful because he makes the schedules and because they know that Fred Barakat and Mike Krzyzewski are very close. The strong ones stand up to it, but the younger refs ... it’s got to affect them.”

But when asked if there was a pro-Duke officiating bias, another former ACC official said: “It’s always bias in the eyes of the beholder. It depends on who you root for.”

That doesn’t stop the conspiracy theories. For instance, I asked one very well-known official if there was bias in the ACC officiating: “I can’t answer that,” he said. “I would question why one ref has so many Duke games. Whether there is any validity to it or not, perception is reality. Other coaches are going to have their suspicions.”

This official pointed out that one official worked 11 Duke games in the 2003-04 season.

“I won’t tell you his name,” the official said. “But check it out. That will open your eyes.”

Well, it did check out. Karl Hess worked 11 Duke games during the 2003-04 season.

The only trouble, it’s hard to see where Hess’ heavy Blue Devil workload fits into the Duke conspiracy theory. Three of his Duke games were non-conference games that weren’t competitive. In the eight ACC games he worked _ six regular season and two in the ACC Tournament _ Duke was 5-3. In the 11 ACC games he didn’t work that year, Duke was 10-1. Hess called technicals on Krzyzewski in both Duke’s loss to Georgia Tech in Durham and 10 days later, when the Devils beat Georgia Tech in the ACC Tournament semifinals.

Hess also worked the ACC title game when four Duke players fouled out and the Terps out-shot the Devils 44-31 from the free throw line.

Is that supposed to be evidence of a pro-Duke conspiracy?

That’s the trouble with a lot of conspiracy claims _ they don’t stand up to scrutiny. Reggie Cofer worked the second-most Duke games in 2003-04 (eight), but the same referee who suggested that Hess’ heavy workload indicated something also said, “Reggie is one of the refs who isn’t influenced by Krzyzewski’s act.”

2/7/2006 10:43:40 AM

Quote :

"WHERE YOU GO TO SCHOOL SHOULD HAVE NO EFFECT ON WHO YOU PULL FOR."

Bullshit. You're a sellout.

Can I change the fact that you're a Hanoi Jane of college athletics? No.

But I can call you and all of your kind out on your banal little bitch moves like this; modeled with your own feelings of self-gratification whilst covered with excuses that are also self-serving as to why you cheer against your own alma mater.

Bye.

2/7/2006 11:05:38 AM

Nobody from Duke like u even if you are duke fan and go to state...

if you are normal after going to school for couple of years u will be wolfpack..

2/7/2006 11:10:59 AM

someone made the argument that duke shoots more free throws but has less points in the paint... maybe its cuz they dont make the basket in the paint when they are fouled and the rest of the league does?

2/7/2006 11:31:43 AM

well i dont cheer against state and all my friends that go to duke understand because they knew i was a bigger duke fan than them back in hs. at duke the kids dont have an inferiority complex so they have no problem with a state student.

a sellout is someone who changes.

2/7/2006 11:33:08 AM

Quote :

"at duke the kids dont have an inferiority complex so they have no problem with a state student. "

Most of them aren't even from Duke. Of course they don't understand the situation. Compare the % of State students that are from NC and the % of Duke students from NC.

2/7/2006 11:44:23 AM

No, i would be sellout if i stopped being a duke fan when i went to state. Arguing with you is like arguing with an autistic child.

2/7/2006 12:05:41 PM

I'm willing to forgive someone cheering for Duke even if they have no relation to the team if they truly do like the team.

However, the fact that you would cheer for Duke over us makes you a douchebag.

2/7/2006 12:08:57 PM

Thanks, im going to write down in my book of things i dont care about.

2/7/2006 12:10:59 PM

I have a confession to make. I grew up liking Carolina. I had to peel an old Tarheel bumper sticker off my car when I got to State. It's embarrassing, and I don't like to talk about it.

2/7/2006 12:19:51 PM

It isn't a matter of pure hatred for me.

I can watch and enjoy Duke games for what they are.

But when you would cheer for Duke over your own school(and it's not like we suck), you are either:
1.) Stupid
2.) A douchbag

Maybe both. It's too bad we don't get them in a round robin anymore.

It would be forgiveable had you actually gone to Duke before coming here.

But you didn't. I knew several people who got accepted to Duke out of my high school class but couldn't go because they couldn't afford it. Several of them now go here.

Guess what........none of them cheer for Duke.

"Hey man!"

"What's up?"

"That's a great Duke shirt you've got on. I always wished that I could go to a Duke game."

"I've been to several! I won tickets to the games in the RBC a few times."

"Wait.....so you go to State?"

"Yea."

"Douchebag."

2/7/2006 12:20:20 PM

^^ same here moonman, which is why when state plays UNC, i hope state beats them by 250, but when duke plays carolina, i hope duke dies

2/7/2006 12:23:15 PM

I basically hope both teams lose tonight. The only time I'll cheer for Carolina is when they play Maryland because, man, I fuckin' hate those guys.

2/7/2006 12:25:13 PM

its absurd to think you have to have a connection to a school to cheer for them

that is elitist as shit

non-college grads are just as allowed to have a favorite team as college grads

and i think if i grew up loving nc state athletics but i wanted to do journalism and went to unc, i would still pull for state. it seems like a sellout thing to do to just throw away the team you have loved all your life.

academics and athletics are connected only by a name in reality.

2/7/2006 12:26:35 PM

I would have tried to go to duke if they had my major. They didnt. I didnt consider duke. I went to state for my major. Ive been to 3 duke-state games at the rbc center. I wore my duke stuff to all three. Ive been to 3 duke-state games at cameron. I wore my duke stuff to all three. When duke plays state, i hope duke wins by eleventy-billion points.

^Wow it is nice to see some reasonable thought.

[Edited on February 7, 2006 at 12:29 PM. Reason : .]

2/7/2006 12:29:01 PM

ok that is where i differ

if you got student tickets, you should be neutral at worst. student tickets are provided to you essentially free of charge by the athletic office. if you get a student ticket, you either cheer for state or keep it to yourself.

if you want to cheer for an opposing team, buy a ticket

2/7/2006 12:35:06 PM

I can understand your point there. But i didnt clap or cheer or say anything to anyone. So i kept to myself. But i have equal right to those tickets like any other tuition paying student.

2/7/2006 12:38:55 PM

Heh.

So you were a statue in a Duke t-shirt at the games?

2/7/2006 12:39:50 PM

but the fees you pay for those tickets are negligble when broken down on a ticket by ticket basis which mean you are being given a gift essentially. you then turn around and bite the hand that feeds you.

2/7/2006 12:43:01 PM

I call it being respectful. I can go in there and support my team but im not going to disrespect nc state or their fans thought being loud and obnoxiuos. There is no need for that.

2/7/2006 12:45:06 PM

its like

say you grew up in the u.s. but your parents were mexican

you grew up here so you have been paying taxes, etc

but you always remained a fan of mexico's sports teams in sports b/c of your parents

and then the u.s. government one year randomly gave out box seat world cup tickets to a us/mexico match for all tax-paying citizens

and you won and wore your mexico jersey

there is nothing explicitly illegal or traitorous in that

but it does paint you as a douchebag

2/7/2006 12:48:17 PM

That is called being yourself. If you are a mexico fan wear your mexico stuff and cheer for mexico.

2/7/2006 12:52:33 PM

Quote :

"but it does paint you as a douchebag"

Hoggman, give it up

rwoody put it about as perfect as it could be put

you sir, are a douchebag

2/7/2006 12:54:40 PM

Thanks, yall are just giving me great stuff to write in my book of things i dont care about.

2/7/2006 12:56:20 PM

hahaha good for you dumbass, at least you're wasting your time writing about us

hahaha

2/7/2006 12:59:49 PM

Hey you are the one who keep taking time to talk to me. I think it is just hilarious.

2/7/2006 1:00:48 PM

if you dont care why post?

its like this, i hate ecu. with a passion. but one of my friends families got me tickets to an ecu/memphis football game when i was in hs. i was sitting with them and while i really wanted ecu to lose, i didnt do anything gay like wear a memphis shirt or even cheer for memphis b/c that would be like, thanks for the free tickets but i hate your team and i am going to tell you about it.

you think if i was there cheering like crazy for memphis they would even give me tickets again?

[Edited on February 7, 2006 at 1:02 PM. Reason : and i agree it is a meaningless argument, you do what you want, so i am done]

2/7/2006 1:01:40 PM