Quote :

"just have to ask, but isnt it pcs phosphate mine doin all the pollutin down there?"

^ bingo, we have a winner

and the higher salinity in the river is due to lower levels of rainfall, this hurts the mill too, since you cant use saltwater in a boiler

[Edited on February 13, 2006 at 7:32 AM. Reason : ]

2/13/2006 7:29:31 AM

so, for you ^^, any answer that doesn't involve paper mills is a correct answer. you're not willing to say that paper mills don't put out pollutants. i bet you're not willing to say that there aren't better technological practices that some paper mills could use. what you are trying to do is point out any other entity that puts out pollutants.

discussion about so-called acceptable level of pollutants is moot when better methods exist

Quote :

"As they now stand, the rules allow paper mills to continue using chlorine-based bleaching processes that produce dioxins. These pollutants are released into nearby waters where they build up in the food chain and pose a health risk to people and wildlife. NWF wants EPA to require technology that will move the industry closer to the eventual adoption of a totally chlorine-free (TCF) paper process. Now in use in Europe, TCF produces no dixoin, significantly reduces other pollutants and uses one-eighth of the energy required by chlorine-based processes."

2/13/2006 8:42:17 AM

actually elemental chlorine has not been used in the united states since the early 90's, peroxide, sodium hydroxide, ozone, and enzymes are coming into favor, but the predominant second stage in most 3 to 5 stage bleaching processes is chlorine dioxde (ClO2), which does not not break down into free radicals that can create organo-chlorides like chlorine (Cl2), and the fact is that the current regulations for elemental chlorine levels in effluent is 1000-10,000 times lower than has ever been proven to cause any enviromental damage. basically the only way it can get lower is for the epa to develop more sensitive test equipment. we are talkin about parts per trillion. you consume hundreds of times more free radical chlorine molecules than that every day in treated drinking water. maybe you should bitch to the city of raliegh then too, for putting more elemantal chlorine in one glass of water, than is emitted from every paper mill in the country during the course of a year?

and unless you want to pay 3-4 times more for poorer quality paper, then TCF bleaching is not the answer. it is not working well in europe, certain grades of softwood in scandinavia are well adapted to this process due to their particular amylose, hemicellulose and lignin characteristics, which spruce and southern yellow pine are void of. if you want to throw random information that you know nothing of, i have several books you can browse to understand the papermaking process, and that there is no simple solution, before you ga any farther making an ass of yourself. unless of course you can create a new process that has eluded engineers and enviromentalists for two hundred years.

and wherever that quote came from is dead wrong. it uses 60-72% more energy that an equivilant E-O-P-D-E bleaching process. it takes a much longer hold time per tower and much more steam energy to maintain the temperature for that long. also there is an excessive amount of effluent from TCF washing stages that cannot be reused anywhere in the mill, unlike a peroxide washing stage following a chlorine dioxide stage, and creates more total freshwater usage.

[Edited on February 13, 2006 at 11:53 AM. Reason : ]

2/13/2006 11:44:29 AM

Quote :

"so, for you ^^, any answer that doesn't involve paper mills is a correct answer. you're not willing to say that paper mills don't put out pollutants. i bet you're not willing to say that there aren't better technological practices that some paper mills could use. what you are trying to do is point out any other entity that puts out pollutants. discussion about so-called acceptable level of pollutants is moot when better methods exist"

I don't drink water from the City of Raleigh. Don't care if you do. Yes, paying more now would cost less in the long run. You can still put your $ where your mouth is and start hooking catfish from that water and frying them up. BTW, Wake county has several creeks in the same list that warns people to limit consumption. If they are only parts per trillion, then why don't you do it? Simple question, Give a simple answer.

2/13/2006 1:20:33 PM

oh, and while you're doing that, bottle up some of the water before it hits the river, and drink that too. only ppt, can't hurt you much

2/13/2006 1:29:57 PM

wouldn't bother me a bit to eat fish from the river, so are the raleigh streams paper mill problems too? i see you have run out of irrelavant facts and have resorted to useless babbling. and now you are talking about overall polution from all sources including runoff, i thought we were talking about paper mills here, or have you finally realized they contribute next to nothing compared to other sources?

[Edited on February 13, 2006 at 4:00 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2006 3:58:36 PM

okay, you're just the consummate shit-talker. you're no different than anybody else that talks a good game, but won't back it up. good thing for you there is a such thing as the internet. it gives you something to hide behind.

2/13/2006 4:27:24 PM

u two both should hide behind the internet because i will beat yo asses up for filling up a garage thread will bullshit thats not even funny. fuckin pussies

2/13/2006 5:31:49 PM

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=386200

2/13/2006 6:19:28 PM

lol i kept wondering why this thread was hanging around......i was like there can't be that much debate over tire pressure

2/13/2006 6:48:41 PM

Quote :

"u two both should hide behind the internet because i will beat yo asses up for filling up a garage thread will bullshit thats not even funny. fuckin pussies"

hippocrite to the core

2/13/2006 9:33:42 PM

hypocrite**

2/13/2006 10:32:01 PM

AHAHA REID HE CALLED YOU A HIPPO, HE GOT YOU GOOD YOU FAT FUCKER

2/13/2006 10:40:24 PM

I'm not fat, I'm big boned dammit.

2/14/2006 8:40:26 AM

^i was talking to reid (stone)

2/14/2006 10:50:18 AM

i had to throw in random shit, this thread is way to sidetracked not to be locked, but i dare not post the cartoon car

2/14/2006 6:30:58 PM