seriously, what purpose does making a new operating system serve if you have to have a riced out system to utilize it? the whole point of making a new OS is the better utilize what you've got RIGHT NOW.

2/17/2006 1:50:35 AM

I wouldn't say that.

2/17/2006 1:57:07 AM

Quote :

"seriously, what purpose does making a new operating system serve if you have to have a riced out system to utilize it? the whole point of making a new OS is the better utilize what you've got RIGHT NOW."

ummm no, the whole point is to move forwards, not backwards. hardware advances faster than the software, so why make software to run on old hardware?

2/17/2006 7:35:46 AM

the system I bought brand new a year ago from dell is perfectly capable of running this shit.

I don't see what the big deal is.

2/17/2006 8:41:44 AM

Quote :

"seriously, what purpose does making a new operating system serve if you have to have a riced out system to utilize it? the whole point of making a new OS is the better utilize what you've got RIGHT NOW."

I agree - a well designed OS would run smoothly on current hardware but still be able to take advantage of the next generation of hardware. The machines most of us are using are capable of doing a lot more than they are being used for.

THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON TO NEED A 3 GHZ PROCESSOR, 2 GB OF RAM AND 256 MB OF VRAM TO SURF THE INTERNET AND DO DAY-TO-DAY WORK.

NONE.

Personally I use a combination of Linux (custom built kernels) and Mac OS X and even on "old" hardware (below 1 GHz, and 1 GB RAM) they work perfect for a huge range of tasks.

And still the key question:

Quote :

"So what is Vista supposed to add that Mac OS X doesn't already have? (Or that you can't find or have implemented in a Linux distro)"

I doubt there is even one compelling feature.

2/17/2006 8:48:11 AM

i guess you mac-fags don't get it - windows is way more user friendly, and most people that use computers are not all that computer savvy. who gives a shit about a compelling feature, when if the computer works, i can surf the interent, listen to music, im, run photo progs, etc etc. think about it like this - manual cars will NEVER out sale automatics - why? because it is more people who don't know how to drive a stick shift or don't care about learning how to drive a strick shift, than there are people that drive or prefer stick shifts. in other words, mac os = stick shift, windows = automatic. i am not saying which is the best here, but obviously if it was a fact that mac is better, everybody would get one; think of that like this - which is better for travelling, walking or driving? driving, and everybody knows it, so people buy cars, instead being cave people and walking everywhere.

2/17/2006 9:09:41 AM

Congrats.

That has the be the most confusing (and stupid) argument that I have heard this week.

[Edited on February 17, 2006 at 9:25 AM. Reason : +]

2/17/2006 9:22:54 AM

it only confusing and stupid because you are a narrow-minded mac fanboy.

2/17/2006 9:23:59 AM

Quote :

"So what is Vista supposed to add that Mac OS X doesn't already have? (Or that you can't find or have implemented in a Linux distro)"

How about all those useless features of OSX and those linux distros PLUS the ability to run the billions of windows software titles effortlessly!

2/17/2006 9:24:21 AM

Quote :

"it only confusing and stupid because you are a narrow-minded mac fanboy."

This isn't even a Mac vs. PC debate. It is just that Mac OS X is the 'next closest' thing to Windows in terms of a commercial consumer OS. There isn't really anyone else in this market other than open-source projects.

I also work in Windows support and development and have done it for years and know my way around all of the major versions over the last decade. Personally (as in at home + some OS X), I use Linux and prefer it in a few ways to Mac OS X. I bring up OS X because has similar features but years sooner and with lower requirements. Linux offers much of the same, but again, it is open-source and is not a typical os for the 'average user'.

Now, onto the confusing part:

Quote :

"who gives a shit about a compelling feature, when if the computer works, i can surf the interent, listen to music, im, run photo progs, etc etc."

We are talking about upgrading to Vista. Are you telling me that you can't get your computer to work on Windows 2000/XP? You can't surf the web? You can't run photo programs? Better yet, your computer doesn't work?

And why are you talking about transmissions? (Which has nothing to do with anything except personal preference.)

[Edited on February 17, 2006 at 9:46 AM. Reason : +]

2/17/2006 9:31:06 AM

Quote :

"i guess you mac-fags don't get it - windows is way more user friendly, and most people that use computers are not all that computer savvy. who gives a shit about a compelling feature, when if the computer works, i can surf the interent, listen to music, im, run photo progs, etc etc. think about it like this - manual cars will NEVER out sale automatics - why? because it is more people who don't know how to drive a stick shift or don't care about learning how to drive a strick shift, than there are people that drive or prefer stick shifts. in other words, mac os = stick shift, windows = automatic. i am not saying which is the best here, but obviously if it was a fact that mac is better, everybody would get one; think of that like this - which is better for travelling, walking or driving? driving, and everybody knows it, so people buy cars, instead being cave people and walking everywhere."

I.Q. plummeting. . .

2/17/2006 9:33:15 AM

I can't believe you're all taking the words of a "Tech Strategist" from Microsoft Australia so seriously.

2/17/2006 10:32:47 AM

Quote :

"windows is way more user friendly"

Time out for you.

2/17/2006 12:11:33 PM

Quote :

"what in the fuck are they thinking If i wanted to buy an overpriced OEM box with less functionality i'd buy a mac. Its like they saw osx and decided Hey! lets go backwards!"

2/17/2006 12:23:48 PM

Meh, now my plan is to wait until a few years after vista comes out, by then all of this now expensive hardware will be much cheaper. Then I'll buy one of these super boxes ('cause you know you need to have 2GB of RAM and a 1GB vid card to do e-mail and word), format it, and put a copy of win XP on it. I'd be left with a blazing fast XP box instead of a middle of the road vista box.

Woo! There will be more threading to make it faster... but it will be more than offset by other unnecessary garbage. Why don't they just admit that there really isn't a reason to buy a new OS right now? The only people that need a machine that meets those reqts are high-end gamers, not mom-n-pop internet surfer and gram-n-gramps e-mailer.

2/17/2006 12:47:19 PM

Quote :

"Why don't they just admit that there really isn't a reason to buy a new OS right now?"

Best point made so far this thread. XP still has a good 1.5 - two years left in it before the hardware curve can truly warrant the next OS...

Quote :

"Meh, now my plan is to wait until a few years after vista comes out, by then all of this now expensive hardware will be much cheaper. Then I'll buy one of these super boxes ('cause you know you need to have 2GB of RAM and a 1GB vid card to do e-mail and word), format it, and put a copy of win XP on it. I'd be left with a blazing fast XP box instead of a middle of the road vista box."

...the second best point made on this thread so far.

2/17/2006 6:27:50 PM

^^ agreed. In a year or two it will make sense to want an OS that can really utilize the new hardware. But for now XP is more than sufficient in all but a few areas. Those deficiencies don't warrant an expensive upgrade, nor do they warrant manufacturers having to buy into a new licensing system and upping the specs and prices on all their machines.

2/17/2006 7:04:10 PM

Quote :

"Linux offers much of the same, but again, it is open-source and is not a typical os for the 'average user'."

Hold it sir. I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Suse Linux (which is the best n00b distro, IMO) is GREAT for the average user. You can watch videos, surf the web, listen to music, and do most anything you can on a Winbox. There are Linux distros for people with varying degrees of knowledge with Linux. Personally, my favorite distro is Ubuntu, which is my primary OS right now. And what does an OS being open source have to do with anything? That won't matter to most end users, just those who wish to get to know the internals of the OS.

2/17/2006 7:17:14 PM

Quote :

"i guess you mac-fags don't get it - windows is way more user friendly, and most people that use computers are not all that computer savvy. who gives a shit about a compelling feature, when if the computer works, i can surf the interent, listen to music, im, run photo progs, etc etc. think about it like this - manual cars will NEVER out sale automatics - why? because it is more people who don't know how to drive a stick shift or don't care about learning how to drive a strick shift, than there are people that drive or prefer stick shifts. in other words, mac os = stick shift, windows = automatic. i am not saying which is the best here, but obviously if it was a fact that mac is better, everybody would get one; think of that like this - which is better for travelling, walking or driving? driving, and everybody knows it, so people buy cars, instead being cave people and walking everywhere."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Have you ever even used a Mac? OS X is one of the most user friendly distos out there.

2/17/2006 7:18:07 PM

Quote :

"OS X is one of the most user friendly distos out there. "

Hmm....

[Edited on February 17, 2006 at 8:27 PM. Reason : ]

2/17/2006 8:27:42 PM

Quote :

"manual cars will NEVER out sale automatics"

statistically worldwide, manual transmission cars outsell automatics several times over

2/17/2006 9:10:57 PM

Owned.

2/17/2006 10:04:25 PM

Quote :

"statistically worldwide, manual transmission cars outsell automatics several times over"

the majority of my family overseas owns manual.

2/17/2006 10:16:50 PM

not till january now

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/21/news/companies/microsoft.reut/index.htm

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 7:37 PM. Reason : for average joe consumers]

3/21/2006 7:36:28 PM

this is the funniest thread i've read in a while

3/21/2006 8:15:04 PM

3/22/2006 6:19:11 PM

It really is Christmas!

3/22/2006 7:15:31 PM

3/22/2006 7:24:12 PM

that delay hit them where it hurts...

their stock fell this morning
and i bet companies like dell are pissed too

but it's not all bad news...

Quote :

"Analysts say consumers who were considering buying a new PC this holiday season may now opt for a fancy new television, a rival Apple computer or even Microsoft's own Xbox 360 videogame console, giving an unexpected boost to companies that make those products. "Every holiday season there are the top five hot items, and one of those items this year would've been a Windows Vista PC," said Samir Bhavnani, a principal analyst with Current Analysis. "Now that's off the list and it leaves room for, maybe, a wide-screen television.""

3/22/2006 8:00:03 PM

Quote :

" 60% Of Windows Vista Code To Be Rewritten Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be rewritten as the Company "scrambles" to fix internal problems a Microsoft insider has confirmed to SHN. In an effort to meet a dealine of the 2007 CES show in Las Vegas Microsoft has pulled programmers from the highly succesful Xbox team to help resolve many problems associated with entertainment and media centre functionality inside the OS. The team are also working closely with engineers from the Intel Viiv team. and it is now expected that the next version of Viiv could be delayed to line up with the launch of the consumer version of Vista at the 2007 CES Show in Las Vegas. One of the key components of the consumer version of Vista is the Media Centre code. This will be an optional package in the same way that Microsoft currently sell a Professional and Home version of XP. With Vista there will not be a seperate Media Centre SKU. Microsoft has also admitted that it has major problems in it's Windows division and has has immediatly initiated a total restructure of the division, a move that comes after a costly delay in rolling out its Vista program."

too much drama

3/23/2006 7:34:31 PM

that seems like an exceptional amount of drama to be occurring in such a successful corporation so close to a MAJOR product release. i don't know how much i believe that a total restructuring of the Windows division is happening in the last mile of the Vista launch. you got any other links on this?

3/23/2006 7:41:25 PM

digg source
no other 'real' links though

3/23/2006 7:43:11 PM

Microsoft must feel like they had to take a 6 year timeout in order to restructure their ideas, sort of like
Apple did with OSX. The difference in this case, though, is that Microsoft is still building Windows off of
the same old base instead of fundamentally redefining and recreating how the user interfaces with their
computer. Sure you can try to tack on security as an after thought, sure you can try to slap on proprietary
replacements for java (.NET), PDF (Windows Presentation Everywhere), OpenGL (Direct X), but in the end
I think it is good that Microsoft has dropped the ball. This gives Apple an opportunity to reveal where
the real innovation is with Leopard. I think it is really telling how the OS continously was delayed,
and how the supposed "features" and "innovations" have constantly been scaled back. And now that
both OSes can boot on Intel Macs, I think Microsoft is going to end up looking like an even greater bafoon.
I think Apple is only beginning to unveil what they had been planning for a very long time. It is really
telling how they could swallow their pride, and finally migrate to the platform that will give them the growth
potential they needed, and they executed it at exactly the time their opponent was at its weakest. I think
this can only mean good things for the much more open and compatible OSX.

3/23/2006 8:09:16 PM

First, learn 2 paragraph.

Second, Vista is a major change UI wise and platform wise from previous Windows iterations.

Lastly, a 60% code rewrite would push Vista into 2008.

3/23/2006 8:14:49 PM

gonna have to wait another year at least for it i guess WAAAH.

i refuse to upgrade my PC until Vista comes out and a pure directx 10 vid card comes out.


3ghz and 6800gt will last me fine i believe.

3/23/2006 10:26:20 PM

Quote :

"Microsoft must feel like they had to take a 6 year timeout in order to restructure their ideas, sort of like Apple did with OSX. The difference in this case, though, is that Microsoft is still building Windows off of the same old base instead of fundamentally redefining and recreating how the user interfaces with their computer. Sure you can try to tack on security as an after thought, sure you can try to slap on proprietary replacements for java (.NET), PDF (Windows Presentation Everywhere), OpenGL (Direct X), but in the end I think it is good that Microsoft has dropped the ball. "

1) Six years? What the hell are you talking about? Microsoft has an 18-24 month product cycle.
2) No, they aren't. They effectively started over with Win2k. And Apple didn't "Redefine the interface" either. They just ADDED things.
3) Security is proportional to market share. Lots of market, little security.
4) .NET has nothing to do with replacing Java. That's a fucking stupid statement. Microsoft made a fucking JVM until SUN got it thrown out of Windows.
5) PDF and Window Presentation Foundation are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. WPE is for rich content delivery, PDF is for static content delivery. Idiot.
6) When they created directx, opengl was for 3d modeling, not gaming or multimedia and sure as hell didnt work well within windows. Directx was a MUCH lighter and MUCH faster video API for quite a while.

Also, directx is a sound, video and input API/library, opengl is only video.

For being CSCGUY, you sure dont know a damn thing about computers.

3/23/2006 11:25:14 PM

Microsoft will be adding physics soon to DirectX too.

3/23/2006 11:48:09 PM

Quote :

"And Apple didn't "Redefine the interface" either. They just ADDED things."

i kinda disagree with this, interacting with OS X was radically different than interacting with OS 9. it wasn't just adding new features.

[Edited on March 23, 2006 at 11:51 PM. Reason : i forgot a word!]

3/23/2006 11:50:21 PM

They didnt change the core UI, they added functionality to it. There's a big difference.

3/24/2006 3:27:04 AM

3/24/2006 9:15:16 AM

office is delayed til 2007 too
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/24/0623233&from=rss

3/24/2006 9:54:06 AM

slashdot discussion on the 60% figure

it's probably bad journalism

3/24/2006 11:27:10 AM

Having played with the beta, I can beleive the interface reworking more readily than a 60% code rewrite. It's a pretty good OS, once you turn off all the 3d shit and put everything in classic view. Everythings just very messy feeling (in any view.)

3/24/2006 11:52:27 AM

ArsTechnica covers microsoft's press release and brings closure to this.

Quote :

"Vista delay aftermath: reorganization, but no "code crisis" ... Microsoft's own press release details the changes, but here's what you need to know. First, it's highly unlikely that the delay announced on Tuesday is the primary cause for this reorganization. While it's tempting to bring the two together (and plenty of people are doing it), the reorganization's primary drive is elsewhere. Case in point: Steven Sinofsky will not only oversee the new Windows and Windows Live Group, but all groups in the Platforms & Services Division now report to him. He is now a senior vice president, and in years to come, he'll be the new Jim Allchin. ... Massive code rewite? Meanwhile, Smarthouse is reporting that 60 percent of the Windows Vista code has to be re-written. Reportedly, the Media Center code in the OS is in shambles, and needs to be saved by the Xbox code team. Curiosity piqued, I contacted my usual sources. In short, the story is an extreme exaggeration. I suppose this much is obvious from the mere fact that what was once a late November shipping date has now moved to January 2007: would the revelation that more than half of the code is in need of repair only translate into a two month delay? Of course not. I suppose the cynic could still invest in this rumor by arguing that the delay will stretch into 2007, but that has yet to be seen, and it really amounts to FUD at this point. The real reason for the delay is a code problem, of course. Microsoft has admitted as such, citing security issues. My contacts are reticent to reveal additional details, other than to say that the problems apparently affect third parties, and are being taken seriously. "

3/24/2006 2:40:12 PM

I have to say, Beta2 is soo fucking locked down it's irritating. You have to give it explicit permission to change ANYTHING, EVERY TIME. And forget about running anything from the commandline (chkdsk, ipconfig, et al) unless you have elevated your account or are in safe mode.

3/25/2006 12:35:09 PM

i tried to install the feb ctp to dual boot but it won't get through the install

3/25/2006 12:46:47 PM

Screenshot Tour of New Vista 5342
main site - down due to slashdot effect
mirrordot mirror
x64bit forum post

via slashdot

3/25/2006 1:33:34 PM

well shit, looks like im gonna be reinstalling again today

3/25/2006 1:41:04 PM

David Bau has a good commentary on the Vista delay, but more so on the direction and mindset of MS for the past decade
http://davidbau.com/archives/2006/03/25/vista_and_the_altair.html

Cringley also weight in on the delay, and the ridiculous notion/rumor that they "just discovered" they have to rewrite 60-70% of the core
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060323.html

3/25/2006 2:05:10 PM

Heads roll at Microsoft over Vista delay.

http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=183702744

Good times.

3/27/2006 9:35:06 AM