Yes, I am a dipshit

Quote :

"FOR GOD'S SAKE IT'S NOT HERB'S FAULT YOU MOTHERFUCKING DUMBASSES"

I'm not saying we should fire Herb.... we really cant. I'm just sick of you bastards that are so blinded by stupidity that you think he can do no wrong, continuously suck him off and blame everyone but him, and tell me I'm wrong for criticizing him even though Stevie Fucking Wonder can see not a damn thing ever changes with this team.

I dont give a damn if you disagree with me... but dont' put a fucking halo on his head and tell me I'm an idiot for calling out his faults. We can do worse, but we can do better. I don't want him fired, but I'm not satisfied. Does he deserve another year(s)? Yes. Do I think anything will change in those years? Nope.



[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:29 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2006 11:26:32 PM

Quote :

"Real Name : Justin Age : 19"

Dude, well forgive you for not knowing what the hell you are talking about since you obviously havent been following the program for a while.

We've had stud recruits before and nothing changed. The program is at a plateau. Chris wright is two years away.

2/22/2006 11:26:49 PM

i've been following the program my whole life asshole, and my grandpa has seen enough acc basketball games in his lifetime to qualify as an acc historian, so anything that happened before my 19 years of being alive he has taught me pretty much everything there is to know about the history of not only our program but the history of the acc. i can also pretty much gaurantee that i have been to more basketball games in my 19 years than you have in however many years you've been alive

2/22/2006 11:30:01 PM

Quote :

"i just think that progress is being shown in recruiting year in and year out. we have a dependable big man in ced and we just landed an absolute stud in chris wright for next years class, i think we are slowly phasing out as a "nothing but 3 point shooting" team because in years past that was our only opportunity to win. i would say the greatest evidence of this is our game in cameron last month, we didnt have to rely on the 3 to keep the game close"

Well, the recruiting thing is a common myth with Herb. Granted, we've gotten progressively better...and I'm excited about Wright (A true PG, thank God)... we've always recruited pretty well under Herb (top 25-30 about 8 of the last 10 years). Although, I agree... our talent level truly does seem to be escalating.


Well... I love Ced, man. Guy could be nasty. I really wish we'd utilize him. Why didn't we tonight? I can't think of a game where we didn't rely mostly on 3 pointers other than Duke, and that's only becuase they put everyone on the 3 line. I just wish we could become a multi-dimensional team. If we cant hit the 3's...go inside. If they play zone...hit the 3's. Start the game inside and use it to open up the 3 pointers. We dont. We shoot 3's, more 3's, and top it off with a dose of 3's. Simmons is a monster....give him the ball

I still cannot figure out why we didn't take it to the rim tonight

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:34 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2006 11:32:24 PM

i feel sorry for cedric simmons....he is the most underutilized big man in the ACC...and one of the top 3 centers

we don't ever get him the ball in the paint where he can do something with it; he had FIVE shots tonight...freaking FIVE shot attempts

this kid has an NBA game and an NBA future and i just don't understand why we don't ever get him the ball down low where he can actually perform a post move and score

2/22/2006 11:33:30 PM

I hate Roy Williams. If he hadn't said no the first time Herb would have been fired long ago.

Of course, most of the "fans" on here are happy with 3rd fiddle so long as we can rack up wins in December.



[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:36 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2006 11:34:22 PM

^^^^so does that just mean you are dumb, then? If you can't pick up that we are failing for the same reasons despite completely different personnel over the years, that just means you are stupid.

We have the best team that we will have for at least 2 years. We have a down acc and ncaa, and we are still putting the same shitty product on the floor.

So, is this just abject stupidity on your part or are you just lying about following the program?

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:34 PM. Reason : sdf]

2/22/2006 11:34:35 PM

This loss fills so bad right now. It feels like someone punched me in the stomach. The refs sucked. I'm not saying that we would have won, I'm just saying it would have been closer. Like the time Tony Bethel tried to save the ball and was pushed out of bounds. There were a couple of times when our players were driving to the basket and got knocked down. The result, no call, Carolina gets the ball and comes back down to score. The really disappointing thing was that it looked like we didn't even come to play. Our defense sucked. Of the 31 possesions in the 2nd half, UNC scored on 23 of those. You've got to give it to UNC though, they played an incredible game. Couple that with how shitty we played, and it spells a recipe for a blowout. The student's for the most part brought their A+ game. The team brought there D- game. Time and time again we say, oh this is our wake up call. Well how many are we gonna have. I don't mind losing. I just don't like these games were we get blown out or play sloppy at the end.

2/22/2006 11:34:56 PM

Brass Monkey, with all due respect... this is not a "ref" problem.


How man layups did they get off of our shitty defense. How many offensive rebounds? How many points in the paint compared to ours? How many wide open jumpshots?


I know you're not blaming it on that... but really, it was a non-factor



[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:37 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2006 11:36:36 PM

Brass MOnkey...that funky Monkey

2/22/2006 11:37:23 PM

golden monkey.. .everyone needs one of those right now

2/22/2006 11:39:17 PM

Quote :

"^^^^so does that just mean you are dumb, then? If you can't pick up that we are failing for the same reasons despite completely different personnel over the years, that just means you are stupid. We have the best team that we will have for at least 2 years. We have a down acc and ncaa, and we are still putting the same shitty product on the floor. So, is this just abject stupidity on your part or are you just lying about following the program?"

how you cant see that we are a steadily rising program over the past decade is beyond me, and no, i wasnt lying about a thing

2/22/2006 11:40:46 PM

This game will definitely give other teams insight into what it will take to beat us in the NCAA's.

2/22/2006 11:41:48 PM

Wow, I'm very surprised that this thread wasn't made till after 10:30.

I felt like we were gonna lose before the game even started.

(disclaimer: I did not read anything in this thread)

2/22/2006 11:43:35 PM

^^^ so the verdict is abject stupidity. FYI, it doesnt take 10 years to hit a plateau. Since 2002 we have been the same middling team.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:44 PM. Reason : sdf]

2/22/2006 11:43:45 PM

^^^ would that be something we would say this early 5 years ago? hell, no. that is progress

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:44 PM. Reason : 3]

2/22/2006 11:44:13 PM

^^agreed.

2/22/2006 11:44:49 PM

I said it just would have been a little closer if the officiating would have been better. Instead of getting beat by 24 it might have been 14. Heck you never know what a little momentum might bring. The bottom line is they were able to get easy lay-ups all too often. We looked confused as hell out there. We left men wide open close to the basket. Where did the defense that we saw during much of the first half of the ACC season go. The team lost this one, but I still don't like a lot of the calls that happened. For much of the season I haven't had to big of a problem with the officiating. Did Gavin really step on the line, b/c from where I was sitting in 112, it looked like his foot was inside the line as he did his tight rope act. Oh well it's in the past. On to the next game. Maybe we'll face them in the ACC tourney and beat the pants of them. That would be the only thing that would make me feel better. I felt better after the blowout last year at home than I do about this loss.

2/22/2006 11:44:56 PM

^^^jesus fucking christ you are dumb. Everyone gives herb credit for being better than fucking Les robinson. That accounts for his time until 2002. Herb's average abilities accounts for us stagnating since then.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:46 PM. Reason : sdf]

2/22/2006 11:46:04 PM

^^On the webcast, it sure looked like he stepped on the line.
There was another play when Bethel was pushed out, but no call.

Calls did not make the difference in this game. Lack of intensity did.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:47 PM. Reason : asdfsd]

2/22/2006 11:47:01 PM

the reffing hurt some in the second half

but by then we were already getting killed

Quote :

"How man layups did they get off of our shitty defense. How many offensive rebounds? How many points in the paint compared to ours? How many wide open jumpshots?"

we had NO d tonight

i am a big herb supporter here, but tonigt is on herb. has to be.

2/22/2006 11:48:04 PM

i dont think we have been stagnant every year since 2002. i seem to recall going to 4 straight NCAA tournaments since 2002 and this year will be our 5th straight. a 10-4 conference record with 2 games still to be played definently shows how stagnant our program has been over the past 4 years

2/22/2006 11:48:19 PM

Here's a revelation for you guys: Every NCSU fan I talked to tonight said that its time to replace Herb, that he can't take us any further.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:49 PM. Reason : I live in NYC]

2/22/2006 11:48:26 PM

if you watched the game tonight and think herb is a good coach, fire yourself

ehhh, well, u can argue he's good. b/c we're a good team now. but if u think we will ever be great with herb and win the big games, then yes, fire yourself.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:49 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2006 11:48:35 PM

ok i just dogged on herb but you guys are ridiculous

2/22/2006 11:49:35 PM

Quote :

"Maybe we'll face them in the ACC tourney "

Oh dear God no.


I said it in the pre-game thread. They're gonna make us look like the Washington Generals.... I knew it.


I'd rather play a 25-0 #1 Duke team than a winless, havent-won-a-game-in-20-years UNC team. I'm serious. We cannot beat UNC, and they outrun us every time. If we meet them in the ACC tourney, we lose. I'll go ahead and call it.

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:50 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2006 11:49:48 PM

^agreed

2/22/2006 11:50:38 PM

im glad that people like PackBacker and rwoody are people who post in sports talk. because at least they are rational in their thoughts, even if you agree or disagree with them

[Edited on February 22, 2006 at 11:52 PM. Reason : rationalize]

2/22/2006 11:51:57 PM

bitch bitch bitch

whine whine whine

2/22/2006 11:52:30 PM

Not trolling, just discussing legitimate concerns (And no matter how much you like Herb, they're hard to deny)

2/22/2006 11:55:48 PM

Quote :

"i dont think we have been stagnant every year since 2002. i seem to recall going to 4 straight NCAA tournaments since 2002 and this year will be our 5th straight. a 10-4 conference record with 2 games still to be played definently shows how stagnant our program has been over the past 4 years "

youre one of those people who doesnt think too deeply, aren't you? What part of the acc being down dont you understand? 4 straight NCAAs is not where we want to be, especially when you consider how we went down like the same old chumps in all of them.

you cant seem to grasp that the quality of basketball has been the same over the years -- the same weaknesses, the same fragility, the same underachievement. Why dont you actually watch the games once in a while instead of being fooled by extraneous information?

2/22/2006 11:55:52 PM

BUT WE'RE WAY BETTER AT REBOUNDING NOW...

Oh wait.

2/22/2006 11:57:38 PM

i actually dont think i've missed a game in at least 8 years, so i dont know where thats coming from. let me ask you this, where do you think our program should be right now?

2/22/2006 11:58:21 PM

herb took a while to get things really rolling but we still have a very good chance to get the 2nd seed for the tourney and see duke in the finals. i think we can get them if we see them again.

2/22/2006 11:59:58 PM

I'm happy with 4 NCAA's. I really am.

Here's my thing. Take Amato, for instance. I somewhat support Amato (It's kind of faltering, but at one point I did)

He's proven he can lead a great offense. He's proven he can lead a great defense. He's proven he can lead a great special teams. Problem is, they've all come at different times... I relate that with more bad timing than bad coaching. It's a matter of putting it together, IMO.


With Herb, I thank him for what he's done... but we CANNOT be a good team unless we can learn to rebound, box out, be multi-dimensional, and get a true point guard to handle pressure. Wright will help with the pressure, but this "Stand around and shoot 3's" offense causes us to get killed on the boards... and when we have an off night, we're fucked.

It hasn't changed. Yes, we've gotten better over the years, but that has remained constant. You simply CANNOT rely on shooting 50% from 3 point land to be a good team. We are anything but flexible and multi-dimensional...and we don't seem to be correcting any of the things that have plagued us for years now

2/23/2006 12:00:05 AM

Quote :

"i actually dont think i've missed a game in at least 8 years, so i dont know where thats coming from. let me ask you this, where do you think our program should be right now?"

Again, it's not being dissatisfied with where we are now... it's realizing a recurring achilles heel over the years.


Why do we always blow leads?
Why cant we rebound?
Why cant we handle the press?
Why cant we win games where we can't hit the 3?
Why don't we ever change our offense with what the other team is trying to do?


Has any of this changed over the past 4-5 years? At all? Do you see it changing?



[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 12:02 AM. Reason : ]

2/23/2006 12:02:01 AM

Quote :

"but this "Stand around and shoot 3's" offense causes us to get killed on the boards"

i dont actually think this hurts us. sure we cant hit the O boards but the real problem is we cant hit the D boards either and that is what really kills us.

as for the PG i think bethel can handle it but i feel like he is handcuffed either by his own mind or by herb


i am really scared about next year, atsur will be our only guard, everybody else will be tweeners or big men

2/23/2006 12:02:39 AM

we'll be alright, quit thinking about shit so much, it aint gonna change anything

herb's not going anywhere, he's a good coach and a GREAT recruiter

we've always been a shitty rebounding team, and Herb has gone out and got us some big men who fit well in our offensive system (simmons, brackman, mccauley, costner, etc.) its just a shame that they cant rebound for shit, maybe herb should hire a coach who specializes in rebounding

but I tell you one thing, getting rid of Herb is NOT THE ANSWER, we've got great recruits coming in who address all of the weaknesses we've been susceptable to

we're on our way to being an elite team on a level that we've never been on before, quit your whining and bitching, it'll all be okay


^we'll have Atsur and Ferguson running the point next year, then Ferguson and Wright the year after that, Herb has that covered, he's not stupid

[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 12:06 AM. Reason : asdf]

2/23/2006 12:05:18 AM

^^^You're correct. With the emergence of Brackman and Simmons, I expected that we would mix our backdoor cuts and rotation to the open 3 point shooter with an interior game. We, as you said, would be multidimensional.

Our lack of interior game leads to one-and-outs on the offensive side, and mutiple shot attempts for the opposing team on the defensive side. Herb needs to recognize this and make appropriate corrections. Perhaps we need a new coach for the forwards & centers.



[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 12:06 AM. Reason : Damnit, I am slow]

2/23/2006 12:05:21 AM

Alright... I'm going to bed. Maybe I'll cool off by morning. Night, ladies

2/23/2006 12:05:29 AM

a win is a win and a loss is a loss. while our offense is bothersome at times, we win more than we lose. i think our offense is responsible for winning more games than losing games, and its times like tonight where its really thown into the spotlight. why do you think west virginia got so far in the ncaa tournament last year? they play a very similar style of basketball that we do and its difficult for (most) teams to prepare for, especially in a tournament setting. lets just wait and see how the season ends before we really start complaining. the same thing happened in january of last year when everybody thought we were the worst team ever but we got hot late and kept that hot streak going in the acc and ncaa tournament

2/23/2006 12:06:22 AM

bethel should not be running the point. he is like justin gray -- he is the most productive running off the ball and looking for a set shot. he is too short and uncreative to be a PG.

Bennerman should be our PG, but he is an underachiever and never learned how to dribble, and he takes himself out of games a lot. Grant would be a PG if he werent retarded. Fells could be a good ball handler, but he cant get himself off the bench.

[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 12:09 AM. Reason : dfg]

2/23/2006 12:08:01 AM

Quote :

"but I tell you one thing, getting rid of Herb is NOT THE ANSWER, we've got great recruits coming in who address all of the weaknesses we've been susceptable to"

Dennis, I'm sorry but thats bullshit. Everyone's been saying that for years. We're never gonna win anything big again with Herb. We'll just be a "good" team.

2/23/2006 12:08:04 AM

if anybody should be a pg other than bethel, it should be atsur. cam is not a pg at all and neither is grant. bennerman is a pure 2 while grant is trying to become a solid 3

2/23/2006 12:09:30 AM

^Yeah, Bennerman is much better at the 2. Bethel was brought in to be PG, remember. Astur was actually able to do some things off the dribble today.

2/23/2006 12:18:02 AM

The fans didn't cheer loud enough! Only their cheers could have made our team box out, rebound and play defense.

2/23/2006 12:19:14 AM

UT - 76
UF - 72

2/23/2006 12:21:53 AM

Herb was brutally outcoached tonight. Our boys weren't prepared well. UNC knew what we were going to do and effectively shut down our "offense." I hate to say it, but it's only going to get worse in the coming years unless we fix whatever it is now. (See UNC's recruiting class for next year).

2/23/2006 1:44:11 AM

whew, whatever guys, u keep that faith. you'll learn eventually.

unless herb dumps the offense and brings in some greaaat assistant coaches, we are going nowhere with him. i've been saying it for a/b 6 years now.

2/23/2006 1:56:22 AM

Alright, this is fuckin ridiculous. This is supposed to be our best team under Sendek and we get worked by and average carolina team. Im not blaming this on Herb, but our fucking players play so intimidated against UNC and its sad. I know its just one game, but damn, if we dont make it to the sweet 16, this is a fuckin disappointing season. Anyhow, go ahead and tell me to STFU & GTFO, but I just felt like ranting.

2/23/2006 1:59:42 AM