Psalms 96:10
Say among the nations, "The Lord reigns! Yea, the world is established, it shall never be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity."

2/28/2006 2:40:17 PM

that is referring to the world's laws, i.e. God's laws; hence the last part of the verse "he will judge his people's with equity"

that is not referring to the world as being established and not moving

2/28/2006 2:44:18 PM

[Edited on February 28, 2006 at 3:00 PM. Reason : ahahahahaa gg ]

2/28/2006 2:44:48 PM

Psalms 93:1
The Lord reigns; he is robbed in majesty; the lord is robbed, he is girded with strength. Yea, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

2/28/2006 2:49:11 PM

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”



As for the earth being flat: In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds.” Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.”

2/28/2006 2:49:18 PM

This always says it for me:


“I do not pretend to be able to prove that there is no God. I equally cannot prove that Satan is a fiction. The Christian god may exist; so may the gods of Olympus, or of ancient Egypt, or of Babylon. But no one of these hypotheses is more probable than any other: they lie outside the region of even probable knowledge, and therefore there is no reason to consider any of them.”
- Bertrand Russell

2/28/2006 2:51:55 PM

hey look i can find find false things people have tried to prove with the bible and were later shown to be false too

that totally disproves everything

2/28/2006 3:02:52 PM

Don't try. You can't reason with a religious nutjob. They're exactly like salisburyboy. It does no good.

2/28/2006 3:03:13 PM

I'm not trying to disprove anything. I just saw a flat earth / geocentric argument going on. I don't think it's unreasonable at all for people thousands upon thousands of years ago to have thought the earth was flat, and I don't think it reflects anything upon the bible other than humans wrote it.

2/28/2006 3:04:50 PM

proving that the earth isnt flat doesnt prove the bible wrong, it proves wrong those that incorrectly interpreted the bible

2/28/2006 3:08:11 PM

Okay class, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in 1962.

Now who bombed Pearl Harbor?

The Germans!

NO! You interpreted that incorrectly! It was really the Japanese in 1941!

[Edited on February 28, 2006 at 3:25 PM. Reason : -r, d]

2/28/2006 3:17:17 PM

good thing the bible never says "yes, the world is in fact actually flat"
it just has parables and versus that after translation some people interpreted to mean the earth was flat

2/28/2006 3:20:47 PM

^ Exactly. And I wish fundies would learn from this.

2/28/2006 3:23:20 PM

that's the glory of the bible

prove part of it wrong and someone says, "you just interpreted it wrong"

Fuck that shit.

2/28/2006 3:23:58 PM

but you never proved part of it wrong

you proved some nutty fundamentalists wrong, something lots of christians have already done

2/28/2006 3:25:33 PM

^ The fundies are the ones this is obviously about. They're the ones that create the problems, and threads like this.

2/28/2006 3:27:49 PM

^An argument the early church killed people over

so you can't just say fundies believed it

2/28/2006 3:29:04 PM

ok as long as you agree you disproved christians, and not christianity or the bible

cause lots of christians disagree with those people too

2/28/2006 3:30:44 PM

“There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes”

- James Morrow

i always love this answer to the stupid foxhole comment

[Edited on February 28, 2006 at 3:33 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2006 3:31:36 PM

what about Noah's Flood?

2/28/2006 3:32:22 PM

You mean the formation of the Black Sea, which was told in the story of Gilgamesh?

[Edited on February 28, 2006 at 3:35 PM. Reason : *]

2/28/2006 3:34:06 PM

what about Noah's Flood?

2/28/2006 3:34:11 PM

what about it, theres lots of evidence for a flood in that region
its a story not only found in christian tradition

2/28/2006 3:34:49 PM

i think there's a lot of evidence for a flood in the middle of north carolina

2/28/2006 3:35:36 PM

i'm not just attacking christianity, I don't believe in any of it

but if you look at the bible, you'll see that the entire world was covered in the flood, not just a 5 acre area.

2/28/2006 3:35:51 PM

I think his point is it explicitly says it covered the entire Earth.

2/28/2006 3:35:52 PM

Quote :

"take the resurrection me fucking my male roommate for example.....tons of people don't believe that it happened but no one has ever been able to prove w/o a shadow of a doubt that it did not happen."

I now believe that kbncsufan fucked his male roommate because he will never prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that he didn't.

2/28/2006 3:36:38 PM

the entire world being babylon

2/28/2006 3:37:10 PM

Sumeria, actually.

2/28/2006 3:37:31 PM

oh really?

2/28/2006 3:38:01 PM

kbncsufan is gay?

i didn't know that

2/28/2006 3:38:31 PM

i wonder what Babilu translates to in Akkadian

2/28/2006 3:40:27 PM

interpretation

2/28/2006 3:41:34 PM

Quote :

"but if you look at the bible, you'll see that the entire world was covered in the flood, not just a 5 acre area."

thats one interpretation, not the interpretation of most biblical historians

2/28/2006 3:41:40 PM

2/28/2006 3:43:26 PM

Biblical evidence for the global Flood

The local flood idea is totally inconsistent with the Bible, as the following points demonstrate:
The need for the Ark

If the Flood were local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and escaped. Traveling just 20 km per day, Noah and his family could have traveled over 3,000 km in six months. God could have simply warned Noah to flee, as He did for Lot in Sodom.
The size of the Ark

If the Flood were local, why was the Ark big enough to hold all the different kinds of land vertebrate animals in the world? If only Mesopotamian animals were aboard, or only domestic animals, the Ark could have been much smaller.1
The need for animals to be on the Ark

If the Flood were local, why did God send the animals to the Ark to escape death? There would have been other animals to reproduce those kinds even if they had all died in the local area. Or He could have sent them to a non-flooded region.
The need for birds to be on the Ark

If the Flood were local, why would birds have been sent on board? These could simply have winged across to a nearby mountain range. Birds can fly several hundred kilometers in one day.
The judgment was universal

If the Flood were local, people who did not happen to be living in the vicinity would not have been affected by it. They would have escaped God’s judgment on sin. It boggles the mind to believe that, after all those centuries since creation, no one had migrated to other parts—or that people living on the periphery of such a local flood would not have moved to the adjoining high ground rather than be drowned. Jesus believed that the Flood killed everyone not on the Ark (Matt. 24:37–39).

Of course those who want to believe in a local flood generally say that the world is old and that people were here for many tens of thousands of years before the Flood. If this were the case, it is inconceivable that all the people could have fitted in a localized valley in Mesopotamia, for example, or that they had not migrated further afield as the population grew.
The Flood was a type of the judgment to come

What did Christ mean when He likened the coming world judgment to the judgment of ‘all’ men (Matt. 24:37–39) in the days of Noah? In 2 Peter 3, the coming judgment by fire is likened to the former judgment by water in Noah’s Flood. A partial judgment in Noah’s day would mean a partial judgment to come.
The waters were above the mountains

If the Flood were local, how could the waters rise to 15 cubits (8 meters) above the mountains (Gen. 7:20)? Water seeks its own level. It could not rise to cover the local mountains while leaving the rest of the world untouched.2
The duration of the Flood

Noah and company were on the Ark for one year and 10 days (Gen. 7:11, 8:14)—surely an excessive amount of time for any local flood? It was more than seven months before the tops of any mountains became visible. How could they drift around in a local flood for that long without seeing any mountains?
God’s promise broken?

If the Flood were local, God would have repeatedly broken His promise never to send such a Flood again. There have been huge ‘local’ floods in recent times: in Bangladesh, for example, where 80% of that country has been inundated, or Europe in 2002.
All people are descendants of Noah and his family

The genealogies of Adam (Gen. 4:17–26, 5:1–31) and Noah (Gen. 10:1–32) are exclusive—they tell us that all the pre-Flood people came from Adam and all the post-Flood people came from Noah. The descendants of Noah were all living together at Babel and refusing to ‘fill the earth,’ as they had been commanded (Gen. 9:1). So God confused their one language into many and scattered them (Gen. 11:1–9).

There is striking evidence that all peoples on earth have come from Noah, found in the Flood stories from many cultures around the world—North and South America, South Sea Islands, Australia, Papua New Guinea, Japan, China, India, the Middle East, Europe and Africa. Hundreds of such stories have been gathered.3 The stories closest to the area of dispersion from Babel are nearest in detail to the biblical account—for example, the Gilgamesh epic.
The Hebrew terminology of Genesis 6-94

*

‘The earth’ (Heb. erets), is used 46 times in the Flood account in Genesis 6–9, as well as in Genesis 1. The explicit link to the big picture of creation, especially in Genesis 6:6–7, clearly implies a universal Flood. Furthermore, the judgment of God is pronounced not just on all flesh, but on the earth:

And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh has come before me, for the earth is filled with violence through them. And, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. (Gen. 6:13)

*

‘Upon the face of all the earth’ (Gen. 7:3, 8:9) clearly connects with the same phrase in the creation account where Adam and Eve are given the plants on Earth to eat (Gen. 1:29). Clearly, in God’s decree the mandate is universal—the whole earth is their domain. God uses the phrase in Genesis also of the dispersal of people at the Tower of Babel (Gen. 11:8,9)—again, the context is the whole land surface of the globe. The exact phrase is used nowhere else in Genesis.
*

‘Face of the ground’ used five times in the Flood account, also connects back to the universal context of creation (Gen. 2:6), again emphasizing the universality of the Flood.
*

‘All flesh’ (Heb. kolbasar) is used 12 times in the Flood account and nowhere else in Genesis. God said he would destroy ‘all flesh,’ apart from those on the Ark (Gen. 6:13,17),5 and He did (Gen. 7:21–22). In the context of the Flood, ‘all flesh’ clearly includes all nostril-breathing land animals as well as mankind—see Genesis 7:21–23. ‘All flesh’ could not have been confined to a Mesopotamian valley.
*

‘Every living thing’ (Heb. kol chai), is again used in the Flood account (Gen. 6:19, 8:1,17) and in the creation account (Gen. 1:28). In the creation account the phrase is used in the context of Adam and Eve’s dominion over the animals. God said (Gen. 7:4) that He would destroy ‘every living thing’ He had made and this happened—only Noah and those with him on the Ark survived (Gen. 7:23).
*

‘Under the whole heaven’ (Gen. 7:19) is used six times outside of the Flood account in the Old Testament, and always with a universal meaning (Deut. 2:25, 4:19, Job 28:24, 37:3, 41:11, Daniel 9:12). For example, ‘Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine,’ said the Lord (Job 41:11).
*

‘All the fountains of the great deep.’ The fountains of the great deep are mentioned only in the Flood account (Gen. 7:11, 8:2) and Proverbs 8:28. ‘The deep’ (Heb. tehom) relates back to creation (Gen. 1:2) where it refers to the one ocean covering the whole world before the land was formed. And it was not just ‘the fountains of the great deep’ but ‘all the fountains of the great deep’ which broke open.
*

A special Hebrew word was reserved for the Flood or Deluge: Mabbul. In every one of the 13 occasions this word is used, it refers to Noah’s Flood. Its one use outside of Genesis, Psalm 29:10, refers to the universal sovereignty of God in presiding over the Deluge. The New Testament also has a special word reserved for the Flood, cataclysmos, from which we derive our English word ‘cataclysm.’

The New Testament speaks of the Flood as global4

New Testament passages which speak of the Flood use universal language: ‘the flood came and took them all away’ (Jesus, Matt. 24:39); ‘the flood came and destroyed them all’ (Jesus, Luke 17:27); ‘did not spare the ancient world [Greek: kosmos], but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly’ (2 Peter 2:5); ‘a few, that is eight people, were saved through the water’ (1 Peter 3:20); Noah ‘condemned the world’ through his faith in God (Heb. 11:7); ‘the world that then was, being flooded by water, perished’ (2 Pet 3:6). All these statements presuppose a global Flood, not some localized event.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/global10.asp

[Edited on February 28, 2006 at 3:48 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2006 3:45:48 PM

To somebody who was living in the middle of what is now the Black Sea, which formed when water rushed over the ridge between the Mediterranean and the hole that they were living, it probably would have been "the whole world". We got it.

It would have also been much too fast of an event to walk out of harms way once you knew it was occuring.

But only a nutjob believes "God" talked to some dude and told him to build a fucking boat.

2/28/2006 3:48:14 PM

We are talking about what the Bible says

2/28/2006 3:49:03 PM

Yes. And indirectly the people who believe it literally.

2/28/2006 3:51:16 PM

Here's what happens when parts of the bible are proved wrong, "nigga's interpretation is just wrong. I have the right interpretation."

2/28/2006 3:52:53 PM

Quote :

" The local flood idea is totally inconsistent with the Bible, as the following points demonstrate: The need for the Ark"

when something starts with a fallacy like that it really removes any credibility it might have
i know i stopped reading

2/28/2006 3:54:53 PM

and that is why you remain ignorant.

2/28/2006 3:55:32 PM

so the statements start to become less of a joke?

2/28/2006 3:58:51 PM

no, it's called there is a reason for the statements. If you bothered to read it, you'd see how retarded you are being.

and here comes the jonhguth statement of I'm just trolling him because obviously when I point out flaws in his argument it is just a troll

[Edited on February 28, 2006 at 4:01 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2006 4:00:27 PM

so you dont see how what i posted is retarded

i mean here, lets start with the first one

Quote :

"If the Flood were local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and escaped. Traveling just 20 km per day, Noah and his family could have traveled over 3,000 km in six months. God could have simply warned Noah to flee, as He did for Lot in Sodom. The size of the Ark"

first of all, 20km per day is a fucking lot when you are moving things. and then they go on to say what God could have simply done. haha wtf

[Edited on February 28, 2006 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2006 4:03:21 PM

If the Flood were local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and escaped. Traveling just 20 km per day, Noah and his family could have traveled over 3,000 km in six months. God could have simply warned Noah to flee, as He did for Lot in Sodom.
The size of the Ark

not retarded

makes fucking sense.

2/28/2006 4:04:41 PM

It's kind of silly to point out the size of the ark as a flaw for a local flood, especially since it would be infinitely too small as it stands for a global flood.

2/28/2006 4:06:13 PM

nutsmacker do you ever use your brain or just post what other people have written about the bible
i think you need to read froshkiller's post

2/28/2006 4:08:00 PM

Quote :

"I will never force my children to believe what I believe. That would not make it a personal choice, which is what Jesus intended religion to be for everyone."

lol, that's a good one.

2/28/2006 4:11:40 PM

you can force your children to go to church, beleiving in christianity is still a choice they will make on their own when they get older

i see no problem with making children go to church

2/28/2006 4:13:31 PM