Quote :

"nothing brings people together like dirty fucking durka durkas and salisburyboy"

lol

[Edited on March 5, 2006 at 10:44 AM. Reason : durrrka]

3/5/2006 10:43:30 AM

Quote :

"i dont see an shinto or buddhists suicide bombers, same with hinduism, their religous leaders never advocated violence."

While you may have a point, it's also worth noting that Christianity and Islam are two of the most largest and widespread religions in the world. So they're probably more likely to carry a few whackos in their numbers.

3/5/2006 11:23:19 AM

you're right, there aren't many buddhists in the world

3/5/2006 12:14:18 PM

the editor of the daily tar heel was asked point blank about the cartoon on msnbc (12:20p)

he said he thinks there is no connection, but he said he got a lot of email saying that by publishing it, they probably caused this.

3/5/2006 12:20:44 PM

muslims should take after buddhists

3/5/2006 1:30:57 PM

baller as fuck

3/5/2006 6:28:06 PM

Washington Post article about the cartoons

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/22/AR2006022202010.html

so, we allow shit to run negating the president, the university, sororities, and anything else, but as soon as someone runs something about Islam, cut it?

3/5/2006 7:34:27 PM

Quote :

" Pit Update: Message from Chancellor Moeser ... Terrible events like this are difficult for all of us to comprehend, so I have begun consulting with campus leaders to develop an appropriate campus event to bring us together after spring break. James Moeser Chancellor"

[Edited on March 5, 2006 at 8:23 PM. Reason : ellipsis]

3/5/2006 8:23:11 PM

^ is it a south park style gay pile?

3/5/2006 8:52:01 PM

Quote :

"for the record when he says "those m. cartoons" he means m. cartoons that a unc student drew not the ones that caused all the middle east chaos "

What cartoons?

3/5/2006 8:52:49 PM

Quote :

" When can we say that "Islam is a violent religion"? How much bullshit has to go down before we can maybe consider the idea that Islam was founded in violence and still carries that with it today? I'm not going to come out and say it because I don't feel comfortable sharing my uneducated perspective in this case. It's really starting to look bad though."

Think how it looks on their side though... you have the worlds biggest, most powerful army (the US) killing more innocent people in the past few years, than any other group (except maybe the Sudanese government). Our military doesn't explicitly represent Christianity, but to the muslims it does, and for many religious Americans, it does too.

Islam is no more violent than Christianity, in the teachings, but middle-east countries have an environment more conducive to creating rogue fundamentalist whackos than Christian countries. All this hatred is mostly a big misunderstanding. If only we could read each others' minds.

3/5/2006 8:57:43 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/7721912/detail.html

Quote :

"Protests are planned for Monday in the same area of campus at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where, authorities said, a former student plowed a sport utility vehicle into nine people Friday afternoon. The College Republicans, Americans for an Informed Democracy and the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies are sponsoring the event, scheduled for 11 a.m. until 1 p.m. Monday in "The Pit," a central area of the UNC-Chapel Hill campus. The event is open to the public and free of charge. Police said Mohammad Taheri-azar, a 2005 UNC-Chapel Hill graduate, admits he acted to "avenge the death of Muslims around the world." UNC police and local authorities, however, say they have not taken a stance on that interpretation, but are simply repeating what the suspect has told them. UNC-Chapel Hill student leaders said that Monday's protest is aimed at the reluctance of the university to label Friday's incident as an act of terrorism. "

Wow. Even the republicans at UNC are queer as hell

3/6/2006 2:45:20 AM

Quote :

" What cartoons?"

the daily tar heel published some cartoons that depicted mohammed, around the time all that other cartoon shit was happening.

kinda makes me wonder, 50% of all muslims are NAMED mohammad and thats fine, but as soon as you draw a picture of someone named mohammad, its time riot and kill people.

Quote :

"Islam is no more violent than Christianity"

certaintly true, and i also criticize the right-wing religous types that support our elective war in iraq.


[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 3:08 AM. Reason : -]

3/6/2006 3:03:58 AM

Quote :

"you're right, there aren't many buddhists in the world"

It's my understanding that Christianity and Islam make up well over half of the world's population, but I could be wrong about that.

3/6/2006 6:55:45 AM

^
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Quote :

"Think how it looks on their side though... you have the worlds biggest, most powerful army (the US) killing more innocent people in the past few years, than any other group (except maybe the Sudanese government)."

<jk>Yeah, they're probably jealous. All this violence is just a way to shore up their numbers.</jk>

But seriously, I think their innocent kill statistic dwarfs ours.

3/6/2006 7:46:08 AM

Quote :

"Wow. Even the republicans at UNC are queer as hell"

hahahaha.

This man should be, and is charged for attempted murder. I'm not arguing that one bit. However, is it an act of terrorism?

Quote :

"Car plows through market, killing 9 Thursday, July 17, 2003 Posted: 11:46 AM EDT (1546 GMT) SANTA MONICA, California (CNN) -- An 86-year-old man who drove his mid-size Buick through a crowded farmers' market Wednesday told police he couldn't stop and may have hit the accelerator instead of the brake, Santa Monica Police Chief James T. Butts Jr. said. Nine people were killed, including a 3-year-old girl, authorities said. The more than 54 hurt include 14 people with critical injuries, they said. Two of those critically injured are under the age of 2. "He said that he tried to brake and he couldn't stop the vehicle," Butts said. Police escorted the man, identified by his attorney as Russell Weller, to a local hospital where he was found to have no alcohol or psychiatric medications in his system. Later, Weller walked out of the police station with the help of a cane and with his attorney by his side. Police released him from custody after he was interviewed by detectives. Charges could be filed at a later time, Butts said, noting that Weller is a resident of Santa Monica and does not appear to be a flight risk. "Right now it looks as though there may be some negligence as far as his capacity to drive safely," Butts said. There was no indication that Weller intended to injure any pedestrians. The driver's attorney, Jim Bianco, released a statement from the family late Wednesday: "Mr. Weller and his family want to express their deepest sympathies to the victims and their families of the tragic accident earlier today. This was an unintentional and unfortunate accident. Mr. Weller is very shaken up, but his thoughts are with the victims and their families." He declined any further statements, in light of the ongoing investigation, with which Bianco said "we are cooperating fully." Butts said Weller drove his 1992 Buick LeSabre "at least at a moderate rate of speed" for three blocks along the market street, which was filled with pedestrians, "striking dozens of people." The car stopped only after a pedestrian was thrown into the air and landed on the windshield of the vehicle, Butts said. The accident occurred at 1:47 p.m. (4:47 p.m. EDT), Butts said. Butts said officers have interviewed more than 100 witnesses, who gave conflicting reports regarding the driver's demeanor at the time of the incident. "So now we're attempting to determine whether this was a straight accident -- medically related -- criminal negligence or criminal homicide," Butts said. One witness said: "It was like a Sherman tank barreling through, hitting everything, just going right over people. "He was not only speeding, he was accelerating." Joe Crisman works in a building along the street where the market is held. He witnessed the accident and said the driver appeared befuddled. "He looked very, very confused," Crisman said. "I think he was just mentally out of touch. He seemed very confused when he stepped out of the car. He definitely shouldn't have been behind the wheel. He was definitely not quite with it." Crisman said there was a woman underneath the man's car, and after a bicycle policeman apprehended the driver, a group of about 10 people together lifted the car off of the victim, who was still breathing. Video shot by local news station helicopters showed several people being treated by emergency personnel on top of red sheets in the street. Ambulances and police cars crowded the area, and a damaged red car sat among debris. 'Single most horrific, devastating scene of tragedy' As police roped off the crime scene, a child's blue stroller sat empty in the street amid bodies covered with yellow tarps. "This is the single most horrific, devastating scene of tragedy I've ever witnessed in 30 years of law enforcement," Butts said. He added that the sight of the dead child "just broke my heart." Crisman said he ran outside to help after the accident. There was "so much carnage," he said. Nine of the injured were taken to St. John's Health Center, where one of them -- a 50-year-old man -- died Wednesday night, according to Lt. Ed Winter of the the L.A. Coroner's Office. UCLA Medical Center received 13 patients: Six in critical condition -- including two children under the age of 2; two patients who were still being evaluated; and five people who have been treated and released. UCLA Santa Monica received 12 victims: one infant in critical condition; four adults in serious condition; and seven people with minor injuries. Hospital sources said the injuries range from broken bones to head injuries to possible internal injuries. A spokeswoman for the Santa Monica Police Department said the Wednesday market is usually extremely busy, with three city blocks devoted to the market stalls and closed to all but pedestrian traffic. According to the city's Web site, 9,000 people visit the market each week. "

3/6/2006 8:10:01 AM

I hate to point out the obvious, but:

Quote :

""He said that he tried to brake and he couldn't stop the vehicle," Butts said."

vs.

Quote :

"Mohammad Taheri-azar, a 2005 UNC-Chapel Hill graduate, admits he acted to "avenge the death of Muslims around the world.""

3/6/2006 9:14:58 AM

uh yeah, no kidding. I don't think an accident can ever be called terrorism. I mean, it was an ACCIDENT

plus that old dude wasn't a muslim

3/6/2006 9:23:41 AM

So what defines terrorism?

Seems like the act should be to further an agenda. IE, not just the act of a madman.

But should there be a minimum level of violence met before calling something terrorism? Would the Pit act qualify?

Does it matter? Should attempted murder be attempted murder be attempted murder?

3/6/2006 9:45:08 AM

^Yeah, I know that one was accidental, while the other was not. You made the point I was trying to make. Is there a level of violence or intimidation that we consider terrorism?

I'm not saying that the old man not using his brakes was terrorism. As I said earlier, I believe attempted murder is the correct charge in this case.

Also, this is obvious as well, but an accident to some is terrorism to others. Think about when we (or any other military) are bombing an area, and a bomb lands on a place that we were not aiming for, killing many innocent civilians. To us, it is an accident. To many others, it could be seen as an act of terrorism. Many of these cases are basically judged by the eye of the beholder.

3/6/2006 10:05:32 AM

If you are going to go there you might as well nail down an definition of "weapons of mass destruction" while you are at it.

Remember the kid that got in trouble a year or so ago for having some pipe bombs. The judge in that case kept using the language "in possession of weapons of mass destruction".

^I'd say one key difference between the two is the "oops my bad" vs. the "hahahahahaha. expect more of the same unless you meet demand xyz"



[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 10:09 AM. Reason : -]

3/6/2006 10:06:38 AM

dude

its terrorism

3/6/2006 10:56:07 AM

You're asking if the law takes intent into consideration, and it clearly does. Manslaughter vs. 2nd degree murder vs. 1st degree murder. All have the same result, but they vary based on intent and circumstances. I don't know the facts behind the old man's case, but it sounds like manslaughter to me. Why are you glad they pinned attempted murder on him, out of curiousity?

The fact of the matter is that, insane or not, if you plow down a bunch of kids with the intent of "proving a point" or in the name of a cause that we are currently fighting a fucking war against overseas (militant Islamicism, rather than the broader 'terrorism,' that is), than you should have your ass handed to you.

3/6/2006 10:58:28 AM

^^wow, I agree with Woodfoot.

3/6/2006 11:48:58 AM

it's obvious that accident vs. intentional is a pretty big separation. no accident is terrorism, unless you accidentally perform a terrorist act at the wrong time or something. If you're driving your truck bomb to a government building and accidentally detonate it at the school, even though you didn't do what you meant to do, you still committed an act of terrorism

Now, as for whether there's a level of violence needed to qualify, I don't think so, but that's my opinion

3/6/2006 11:57:32 AM

Quote :

"You're asking if the law takes intent into consideration, and it clearly does. Manslaughter vs. 2nd degree murder vs. 1st degree murder"

Of course I realize this. But once you've gotten past establishing sanity and premeditation, what matters then? If you do it for money or power or to advance a political goal... what's the difference?

3/6/2006 12:43:31 PM

we're holding people by the hundreds at gitmo on suspicion of terrorism

BUT THIS GUY DRIVES A CAR THROUGH A COLLEGE CAMPUS
ALL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH

AND WE'RE DEBATING WHETHER THIS IS TERRORISM OR NOT?

hell, richard reid is a terrorist and all he did was show the world his socks

3/6/2006 12:45:25 PM

^ Woodfoot is 100 percent correct. I never thought I'd see the day...

3/6/2006 7:54:02 PM

Quote :

"So what defines terrorism? "

ITS IN THE NAME. USING FEAR (TERROR) AS A WEAPON.

if thats not what that is .....

3/6/2006 8:03:19 PM

once again

i'm not your average liberal

3/6/2006 8:05:26 PM

^^Using fear as a weapon, sort of like when someone says, oh I don't know....

Quote :

"It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States"

--Dick Cheney

OR

Quote :

"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. "

Quote :

"I’d like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don’t turn to God, you just rejected him from your city. And don’t wonder why he hasn’t helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I’m not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that’s the case, don’t ask for his help because he might not be there."

--Pat Robertson

OR

Quote :

"We're going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead."

--Bill O'Reilly

3/6/2006 11:06:07 PM

its terrorism

3/6/2006 11:08:09 PM

how about when someone plays a britney spears song on the radio?

3/7/2006 12:51:35 AM

only if they say they are gonna do it, and then do it.

3/7/2006 5:51:21 AM

did you guys listen to the audio of his 911 recording? Its quite bizarre. I think he was disappointed that the guy at the switchboard wasn't disturbed by what he had done.

3/7/2006 7:27:29 AM

WaPo, N&O and Metafilter all just picked this up this morning.

Metafilter:
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/49805

vs.

Free Republic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1589903/posts
and
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1589722/posts

3/7/2006 11:11:09 AM

http://pmoscn.ytmnd.com/

3/7/2006 1:45:36 PM

Quote :

"I find it discrimination, too."

Learn some proper grammar, Rasfan.

3/7/2006 1:55:29 PM

Muslims keep playing with the west's good patience.

3/7/2006 1:56:42 PM

i dont even think the guy is a devout muslim terrorist...i think he's just crazy...dont think it had much to do with religion despite what his letter said...i think he's just a dumbass

3/7/2006 1:58:58 PM

wow, check out some of the freeper comments:

Quote :

"If the circumstances were any different, you would say that he was a whacko, trying to kill one group of totally innocent people, who in fact probably agreed with him, in revenge for the actions of a completely different group of people. The problem is, Muslims do this all the time. It's their basic reaction pattern. It's what Muhammed and Islam tell them to do. You don't like it because the IDF has rocketed one of your terrorist pals? Well, don't try to attack the IDF. Blow up a Bar Mitzvah party and kill a roomful of kids. Pick up a baby and knock his head against a rock. Drive a car into a group of students sitting around talking. That's the Muslim way."

Quote :

""I think what happened today shows the need for us all to unite and combat the ugly face of extremism," said Kris Wampler, a representative for UNC's Student Congress." Kris Wanker needs to buy a clue. What we need to unite and combat is Islam."

3/7/2006 2:26:45 PM

Christians backslide
Muslims get a running start

3/7/2006 2:41:20 PM

HEATHENS!

3/7/2006 2:44:29 PM

Darksided

3/7/2006 2:54:00 PM

The lefties on Mefi are no better. It's just a joke to them, and fodder for their anti-Rep dogma.

Yes, it's true that damning an entire race is wrong (wrong as in both incorrect and morally incorrigible), but when you look around at the violence internally in the Middle East, in France, in Africa, and now throughout Europe, sometimes it's tough not to.

3/7/2006 2:55:06 PM

this is probably the issue i am most "rep" about

it sickens me that people are refusing to call this an act of terrorism
or that people are trying to find justification for this

3/7/2006 3:00:15 PM

quotes form the police report and interview -
http://www.herald-sun.com/orange/10-709933.html

Quote :

" "Taheri-azar said he had been thinking about some type of attack for two years, but had been planning this attack for two months," according to a search warrant"

It took 2 months to plan how to drive a car through a group of students?

not to mention, he didn't even get it right, self-admittedly

Quote :

" Apparently Taheri-azar was disappointed that his plan to kill was not effective, according to the warrant application. "Taheri-azar also told Dodson that he was disappointed there were not more people in The Pit when the attack occurred," it said."

Quote :

" Taheri-azar rented a four-wheel drive Jeep Grand Cherokee from Enterprise Rental Agency for maximum effect so he could "run over things and keep going," the application states."

3/8/2006 3:41:28 AM

An example of Christians killing in the last 10 years:

Kosovo



[Edited on March 8, 2006 at 10:56 PM. Reason : f]

3/8/2006 10:53:41 PM

weren't they catholic?

3/8/2006 10:55:48 PM

set em up

3/8/2006 11:09:11 PM