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3/6/2006 8:52:07 AM

UNC starts 2 freshman, 2 juniors, and 1 senior. Both of those freshmen were 5-star recruits, and I won't bother to research what Noel and Terry were, but I'm sure they weren't walk-ons.

Put it this way, UNC isn't a bunch of scrubs over-achieving. Noel and Terry practiced and saw a little PT for the national championship team last year, that's only going to make you better practicing against good talent. UNC is having a lot of their success from momentum right now, they just have it in their back pocket and they're getting more of it and playing with more confidence after every game. They sure didn't have that 150% when they were on a 3-game losing streak earlier this season.

Haha, I think it's funny that you think that we could be a Final Four team with Roy as the coach. Roy's schemes are based on athleticism, speed, attacking the basket, we have 2 players right now on our team that can semi-fit those 3 and one of them has a messed up hamstring, and the other has a broken nose. Our team couldn't run Roy's offense. But I do think that Roy would have our players better prepared, but when push comes to shove, we live and die by the 3, and Roy isn't going to make our shooters hot on any given night.

3/6/2006 10:21:18 AM

Noel was a walk-on

3/6/2006 10:22:46 AM

Reyshawn Terry was a top 25 recruit, but has been a complete bust up until this point.


Point is that before this season, their leading returning scorer was David Noel at about 3 ppg.


It is absolutely unbelievable that they have done what they did.

Quote :

"But I do think that Roy would have our players better prepared, but when push comes to shove, we live and die by the 3, and Roy isn't going to make our shooters hot on any given night. "

You're right.

That comment was more of a "Roy gets much more out of his players than Herb" and not that I believe our players could run his offense.

3/6/2006 10:26:33 AM

Quote :

"Noel was a walk-on"

that's not the complete story. he was recruited to play football, but he wanted to play bball. Doh didn't have enough scholarships to get him his frosh year, so he promised him one the next year. Doh then got shitcanned, but Roy came in and honored the promise, so Noel has been a scholarship player ever since.

Roy is a better coach than Herb. I'm not going to argue with that, it's true. Herb is still one of the better coaches in the country though. Roy and K are among the absolute best active coaches right now, so to say you want a coach to compete with that is asking way too much. It's not going to happen.

[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 10:55 AM. Reason : ]

3/6/2006 10:54:14 AM

^ you should ask it out of any coach because that is the spirit of competition

to expect regularly beating the two best coaches in the country is not realistic; but to beat them once in a while, and to not get completely shalacked when you have a respectable squad is to be expected

3/6/2006 11:03:44 AM

i'm not talking about beating them head-to-head. that's not at all what i'm talking about. i'm saying that herb will never get as much out of his teams as coach k and roy get out of theirs. you can say that about pretty much every other coach in the sport as well. those two are most likely in everyone's list of the top 5 active coaches.

3/6/2006 11:37:37 AM

^^^Maybe Herb should just start authorizing payments to players like Roy and we'll have more motivation to play!!!!

3/6/2006 11:38:55 AM

Quote :

"It is absolutely unbelievable that they have done what they did. "

i agree. as much as i hate unc, they are the best team in the ACC right now. as well as they are playing, i wouldnt be surprised if they win the nat championship.

3/6/2006 11:41:03 AM

Oh I agree Roy and K can inspire their "troops" better than Herb can, he really does the opposite, he tries to play down big match-ups for some reason, guess he doesn't want them to get too excited or nervous.

But all I was saying is that UNC isn't a bunch of scrubs, and any of their starters would likely start anywhere else. And I was also just making the point that even with Coach K here this year or with Roy, our team is not a Final Four contender, heck, back when we were beating GW and all those good teams during the stretch, I knew we weren't even an elite 8 team. As long as we are recruiting the second-tier shooters and ball-handlers(after the "top" teams get their picks) instead of athleticism, then we're going to be running this offense and relying on the 3.

I am hoping Chris Wright and maybe if we get Vaughn(5* PF) along with McMillan(not sure why a 3*(rivals) PG wants to come the same year as a 5* unless he can play SG too) then we could maybe see some talent and change on the horizon.

3/6/2006 11:45:11 AM

mcmillan is a legacy, he almost assuredly wants to play here because of his father.

3/6/2006 11:50:53 AM

I agree.

3/6/2006 11:52:08 AM

McMillan is also a combo guard, not a point guard.

He can be a ballhandler, but we don't want him to be one. Think Justin Gray/Engin Atsur type

[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 12:52 PM. Reason : ]

3/6/2006 12:52:07 PM

I love how I just get completely bashed for backing my coach in this thread. john kruk, LudaChris, and ncWOLFsu, and I are the only ones who still back Herb I guess. We are in better shape than all but 2 ACC programs and they are Duke and UNC. We will consistently be in the top 4 now in the ACC with Herb bringing in these recruits. I guess EVERY ACC TEAM but Duke and UNC should fire their coach because those two teams are the best if we except it or not. If we fire Herb now we lose everything he has built us up to and for at least prolly 5 years will be in the bottom of the league with VTech and Clemson before someone MAYBE could build us back up.

3/6/2006 1:00:58 PM

Tell me, what in the FUCK is the difference between always finishing 4th in conference and last?

I could care less.

3/6/2006 1:16:11 PM

^^You're not the only ones.... I back Herb. I am disappointed with our finish, but I chalk it up to injuries. We can't seem to keep an entire team healthy for a season. It's a shame because other teams seem to NEVER have injuries that hurt them.

3/6/2006 1:19:44 PM

Quote :

"Tell me, what in the FUCK is the difference between always finishing 4th in conference and last? "

a trip to the ncaa tournament.

that in itself is reason enough.

3/6/2006 1:21:29 PM

^IF YOU DONT WIN THE NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP YOUR SEASON IS SHIT


^^For real man. How come Duke or UNC guys never get hurt. Its always ours and its always starters. Bethel and Bennerman last year. Evtimov and Bennerman this year. Now Grant's nose. WTF is up with that.

Even in the first Sendek days, Thornton and Ron Kelly and others got hurt. I think its a curse.

[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 1:23 PM. Reason : ^^]

3/6/2006 1:22:13 PM

when sean may got hurt carolina won like 8 games

3/6/2006 1:22:55 PM

They also had Doherty as their coach....

3/6/2006 1:23:39 PM

they did pretty damn well with doherty his first year

3/6/2006 1:24:05 PM

Quote :

" a trip to the ncaa tournament. that in itself is reason enough."

For an expected early exit? I mean, yeah its nice to watch the team play an extra 3-4 games but gimme a break with things the way they are now we won't make any noise.

3/6/2006 1:24:49 PM

we didnt make any noise in 83 either

3/6/2006 1:25:37 PM

^^you never said that orginally.

you said "Tell me, what in the FUCK is the difference between always finishing 4th in conference and last?" and i answered you. there is a HUGE difference. now you are backpeddeling

[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 1:26 PM. Reason : df]

3/6/2006 1:26:29 PM

I'm not packpedaling. But you're right I did omit anything about the NCAA's. The bottom line is I'm saying that most ppl are satisified with us being "better than average". Well thats bullshit. Whats even the point then.

3/6/2006 1:30:14 PM

338 teams would fire their coach each year since they didn't win it all according to your mindset. (339 D-1 teams).

3/6/2006 1:32:56 PM

maybe backpedalling wasnt the right word, but you know you made a stupid statement so you're trying to change it now.

listen, im not happy with the way we are playing right now, but thankfully we have played well for the majority of the year so that we can have a collapse and still make the ncaas.

come tournament time, everyone starts over again. if we had finished last in the acc (which according to you is the same as finishing 4th), we wouldnt have that opportunity to start frest.

3/6/2006 1:33:48 PM

^yes it was a dumb statement b/c i left out any mention of the NCAA, but when I typed that first line it was in my mind, so it made more sense to me

^^not every school has the history that we do, nor the history of our conference

3/6/2006 1:39:06 PM

Quote :

"If we fire Herb now we lose everything he has built us up to and for at least prolly 5 years will be in the bottom of the league"

what's the basis for this opinion? scared of change so just maintain the status quo?

3/6/2006 1:42:55 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney03/story?id=1525209

This team wouldn't have even made the NCAA tournament that year without winning the ACC tourney. Why don't you all read the thread about being quiet about Herb till after the year. If we lose 1st round in both Tourneys, then come back here with this negative shit. Give him a chance first.

3/6/2006 1:45:52 PM

^^i think its pretty safe to say that if you bring a new coach with a different offensive strategy, more then likely we will back to square one. the players we have now have been recruited to fit herb's offense. in a league as competitive as the ACC, its tough enough to mantain consistency (look at maryland and wake), let alone start all over again (look at how many times clemson and fsu has tried it recently).

if you want a basis, look at our football program. yes, we have had the same head coach for a while, but our off and def coordinators have been in and out every other year....and our football team has been a model of inconsistancy over the past few years...despite having the talent to do better.

if you want a new basketball coach, fine, but expect to go through a few years of rough times before things improve, if they do.

[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 1:48 PM. Reason : df]

[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 1:49 PM. Reason : df]

3/6/2006 1:48:18 PM

we're going to the elite 8 this year

3/6/2006 1:48:46 PM

^^ football is a different beast and should not really be compared to basketball situations.

and going in a new direction/going back to square one /= rough times at the bottom of the league. there might be a slight drop-off for a year or two but i don't expect this doom and gloom, bottom-of-the-league type of drop-off that ya'll do.

3/6/2006 2:00:31 PM

Quote :

"I love how I just get completely bashed for backing my coach in this thread. john kruk, LudaChris, and ncWOLFsu, and I are the only ones who still back Herb I guess."

i thought kruk had been bashing herb? i could be wrong though.

Quote :

"It's a shame because other teams seem to NEVER have injuries that hurt them."

Quote :

"For real man. How come Duke or UNC guys never get hurt. Its always ours and its always starters. Bethel and Bennerman last year. Evtimov and Bennerman this year. Now Grant's nose. WTF is up with that."

IIRC, in 2001 Duke lost Boozer on senior night with a broken foot and completely revamped their playing style until he was healthy (late in the ncaa tourney), and went on to win the NC that year. The difference? Coach K is possibly the best coach ever, and he can do shit like that. But don't say they never have injuries, because they do.

Adjusting to account for injuries is something that Sendek could improve on, but it isn't something he should be fired over. We just have to have other guys step up and carry the load. Look at what Cam did against Wake 2 years ago when we lost scooter. Look at what Gavin just did WITH A BROKEN NOSE when we were without Cam against Wake on Saturday.

Also, don't forget about Brandon Costner. We lost him very early on, but I am quite positive that he would be a major contributor by now if we still had him. He showed flashes of brilliance in the few games he played at the beginning of the year, so you have to wonder how much better we would be with an extra guy that can play in the rotation. He is probably healthy at this point, but it'd be a waste to play him now (this has been discussed before).

Quote :

"For an expected early exit? I mean, yeah its nice to watch the team play an extra 3-4 games but gimme a break with things the way they are now we won't make any noise."

It was already said, but in 83 it was an expected early exit as well. Any year we make the tournament is a year we could win the tournament. And until we are elminated from the tournament, there isn't shit you can say about our year being good or bad and expect it to actually mean anything.

3/6/2006 2:42:23 PM

oh no the redsox lost three straight, theres no way they can beat the yankees and win the world series after that

3/6/2006 3:44:46 PM

Quote :

"IIRC, in 2001 Duke lost Boozer on senior night with a broken foot and completely revamped their playing style until he was healthy (late in the ncaa tourney), and went on to win the NC that year. The difference? Coach K is possibly the best coach ever, and he can do shit like that. But don't say they never have injuries, because they do"

Yep. He took out 3rd year starting senior in favor of freshman Chris Duhon and wound up starting 3 guards and 2 forwards to make his teams quicker and smaller.

He ran the teams to death without boozer... wound up winning the ACC tournament and the National Championship with mostly undersized sophmores in the starting lineup



[Edited on March 6, 2006 at 3:51 PM. Reason : (Although Boozer did come back for the Final Four... or Championship game... somewhere in there)]

3/6/2006 3:50:05 PM

casey sanders wasn't a forward, he was just a quicker center. he was kind of a pussy the whole time he was at duke until boozer went down. sanders stepped up and actually started playing well. but yeah, the point is they made a huge adjustment from a team that banged around in the paint w/boozer to a running team that relied on fastbreaks, and it worked.

3/6/2006 5:29:28 PM

Well, I'm talking about Nate James, who was a fifth year senior that year and I believe all-ACC.. which is who freshmen Duhon came in for.

I guess you're right about the Center thing... I think it was Sanders, Christianson, and Love that played "Big man by committee"...and all of them were fairly large.

Either way... like you said, it worked.

3/6/2006 6:34:22 PM