they look like cosine graphs, what is that? ^^ I agree the trophy case is empty- although these stats are much more relevant than the ones the people at gopack.com keep pulling out of thin air.

3/25/2006 11:50:23 PM

Not to mention that ol' Herbie is a stellar 72-88 against ACC competition during his 10 years at State.

BUT HE'S THE GREATEST COACH E\/AR!!!!11!

3/26/2006 8:56:58 AM

who is even thinking to claim he's the best coach ever?
he's not even top 3 at ncsu...
but he's still getting better...
and since the odds of getting someone better right now are next to nothing you all just need to sit back, drink a beer, and wait for next season

3/26/2006 9:20:58 AM

^ what he said.

3/26/2006 9:31:50 AM

So State can't do any better than Herb? Seton Hall, whose tradition can't even hold a candle to State's, just fired a coach who went to the NCAAs b/c he was not meeting their program's expectations (Orr's 1st 5 years with several NCAA appearances dwarfs Herb's 1st 5 years which were nothing more than NIT bids). Ben Howland just took a UCLA team that was mired in controversy just 3 years ago to the Final Four. Don't give me this shitty song and dance that State can't do any better than Herb when plenty of programs have turned their fortunes around in a lot less time with a lot better results.

3/26/2006 9:51:25 AM

^Orr was fired because he hadn't gotten any recruits inked for next season. Say what you will about Herb, he has gotten some pretty decent recruits in , especially the last couple years. Now, the fact that he decides not to play them ( oh why Courtney Fells did we not see you more ) is a legitimate gripe.

3/26/2006 9:59:59 AM

Quote :

"So State can't do any better than Herb? "

Actually, I don't believe we can. We're not going to lure a better coach from where they are now to come to state, so we'd have to find another potentially "up and coming" coach who will need several years to develop and still not get us any better results than the 20+ win seasons, perennial top 25 and annual NCAA bids that we're getting now. Chances are we'll regress for at least a few years with such a coach.

If you think a Rick Barnes type of coach is going to come here, you're seriously delusional.

3/26/2006 10:16:41 AM

"You're seriously delusional" epitomizes far too many of our fans.

3/26/2006 10:26:12 AM

Also, that's not to say that I'm a big Herb fan. He's acceptable at best. He does a lot of things well, and a lot of things not so well. I do believe he can improve as a coach and continue to increase the stature of our program.

Do I think he can win an ACC title or NCAA title? Not without a lot of changes and improvements.

But I do feel that firing him would be a much bigger set back (short term and long term) than keeping him.

3/26/2006 10:39:06 AM

^agreed

3/26/2006 10:50:33 AM

last year:

choked 95% of the time in close games

this year:

choked 50% of the time in close games

thats progress

3/26/2006 2:41:54 PM

Our OOC schedule means that it would likely take a 3-13 ACC record to have an overall losing season.

[Edited on March 26, 2006 at 3:10 PM. Reason : ~]

3/26/2006 3:10:04 PM

Quote :

"Our OOC schedule means that it would likely take a 3-13 ACC record to have an overall losing season."

Wow. Nice point. Wake Forest went 3-13 and still had a winning record.

I guess they played all cupcakes.

3/26/2006 3:29:50 PM

how long before the Herb Haters start wanting Jimmy Laranaga as their head coach.

that guy is this year's Bruce Pearl. he'll get offered a big time job offer. perhaps Iowa if Alford goes to Indiana. perhaps Indiana would skip on Alford and offer Laranaga.

Info on Iowa's website on Alford:

Quote :

"University of Iowa's men's basketball Coach Steve Alford is looking forward to continued success with the Hawkeye program and has scheduled no interviews for vacant coaching positions. "I'm the head coach at Iowa. My family and I love the Iowa program and the community," said Alford. "We had a record-setting season with a second Big Ten Tournament championship and I look forward to continued success with this program. "

3/26/2006 11:42:36 PM

Quote :

"Jimmy Laranaga as their head coach."

Dude is like 60-years-old. He would only be a 5 maybe 10 year fixture.

3/27/2006 11:14:16 AM

Quote :

""You're seriously delusional""

3/27/2006 12:56:59 PM

Quote :

"Chances are we'll regress for at least a few years with such a coach. "

Just like Tennessee and Ohio State...oh, wait...

Those who think that Sendek is the best that State can do deserve every friggin' mediocre/middle of the road finish/3rd or 4th best team in the state of NC every year that State suffers through.

Go hide behind your momma's skirt.

3/27/2006 7:29:30 PM

im so glad we have fans like you

3/27/2006 8:33:37 PM

Heaven forbid that State actually be better than average. Perish the thought. I hope that whenever herb leaves all of his worshippers follow him. NC State will be better off without you.

3/27/2006 9:00:40 PM

I just wonder who you want us to hire when Herb has had enough of this shit.

You tell me who we will get that will be better than Herb?

Quote :

"Just like Tennessee and Ohio State...oh, wait..."

FYI, we made it just as far as those teams.

[Edited on March 27, 2006 at 9:54 PM. Reason : FYI]

3/27/2006 9:53:25 PM

Quote :

"You tell me who we will get that will be better than Herb? "

my exact thoughts!

3/27/2006 9:56:59 PM

^^...after those coaches 2nd and 1st season, respectively. Cmon', those guys will wipe the floor with us in 2-3 years, tops.



And coaches who we could possibly land has been discussed ad-nauseum. You never know how good someone is going to be in a situation until given the chance.... for example, coach K.. who was mediocre at best during his time at Army.

I'm willing to give someone else a shot, as you all know

[Edited on March 27, 2006 at 10:02 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2006 10:01:48 PM

are we still talking about this????????

3/27/2006 10:38:47 PM

Quote :

"Seton Hall, whose tradition can't even hold a candle to State's, just fired a coach who went to the NCAAs b/c he was not meeting their program's expectations"

Instead of just citing this maybe you should evaluate the firing. It has to be the single most idiotic firing in quite some time. Seton Hall CAN NOT compete with the bigs in that league. They don't have the facilities, the fans, or the drawing power to be able to. Orr was doing just fine and it was absolutely ridiculous to off him...

You'll call it 'not settling for mediocrity' while I, someone who knows the college bball landscape up there a hell of a lot better then 90% of those on here, will call it stupid...

Quote :

"Cmon', those guys will wipe the floor with us in 2-3 years, tops. "

That is a completely unfounded statement. College basketball, unless you are an elite, is cyclical. There is no reason to believe that Ohio State and UT are going to all of a sudden jump up to Duke/UNC (who are the only teams to routinely whip us) because Bruce Pearl coaches there.. Come on....

[Edited on March 28, 2006 at 3:19 PM. Reason : f]

3/28/2006 3:16:32 PM

Who's to say an up and comer can't immediately come in and improve upon what Herb has done? Just because a new coach comes in doesn't automatically mean he's going to struggle for a few years only to then get back to going 21-12 every year.

3/28/2006 4:53:55 PM

Quote :

" get back to going 21-12 every year. "

and be in the exact same spot we are now ... great idea

3/28/2006 9:17:49 PM

with respect to those graphs.

noise, noise, nothing but noise

those show absolutely nothing.

3/29/2006 3:55:39 PM

Quote :

"Just like Tennessee and Ohio State...oh, wait... Those who think that Sendek is the best that State can do deserve every friggin' mediocre/middle of the road finish/3rd or 4th best team in the state of NC every year that State suffers through. Go hide behind your momma's skirt. "

name 3 replacement candidates that will make us better. please think of legitimate ones.

3/29/2006 4:24:20 PM

^ i'm very pro-herb, but this was in the accnow blog a couple days ago http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?p=2794&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#more2794

Quote :

"‘WE ALL GO TO N.C. STATE’ No coaching search is complete without a “family” connection. While State is more like the Clintons, while Carolina would be the Kennedys, the Pack still has a shining star in its gene pool. Nate McMillan, Portland Trail Blazers coach Pros: 1) Name recognition with recruits; 2) Has already coached six NBA seasons but won’t turn to 42 until August; 3) Wouldn’t have to deal with Zach Randolph anymore; 4) An alum that’s fully apprised of the State-Carolina-Duke dynamic; 5) Already coaching what amounts to a college team with four players who went straight to the NBA from high school. Cons: 1) Would have to walk away from a chunk of Paul Allen’s money and take a pay cut; 2) Never coached/recruited in college. Sidney Lowe, Detroit Pistons assistant coach Pros: 1) An alum who has won a national title at N.C. State; 2) Pro head coaching experience. Cons: 1) Pro head coaching experience (fired by Minnesota and Memphis); 2) Never coached/recruited in college. Dereck Whittenburg, Fordham coach Pros: 1) An alum who has won a national title at N.C. State; 2) College head coaching experience; 3) ACC assistant coaching experience (N.C. State, Georgia Tech). Cons: 1) Losing record at Fordham; 2) 1983 wasn’t exactly yesterday and doesn’t have the same cachet with recruits as say McMillan or even Lowe. Monty Towe, University of New Orleans coach Pros: 1) An alum who has won a national title at N.C. State; 2) College head coaching experience. Cons: 1) Losing record at New Orleans; 2) If recruits think 1983 is ancient history, 1974 might as well be Greek mythology. Sean Miller, Xavier coach Pros: 1) Energetic; 2) Sharp recruiter; 3) Knows how State works as former assistant. Cons: 1) Knows how State works as former assistant; 2) Et tu, Sean? Wouldn’t disrespect Sendek by jumping in his grave. RETIREMENTS NICE, BUT BIG CHECKS ARE NICER You know these guys from TV, or from the Final Four, and they are currently out of college coaching, which makes them available, by definition anyway. Rick Majerus, former Utah coach Pros: 1) Personality; 2) Strong Xs and Os guy; 3) Knows how to run a program that isn’t the Prodigal Son. Cons: 1) Health issues; 2) Waffler (see: USC); 3) West Coast recruiting connections not as valuable in North Carolina. Steve Lavin, former UCLA coach Pros: 1) Personality; 2) Strong recruiter; 3) Sterling NCAA Tournament coach. Cons: 1) Style > Substance; 2) West Coast recruiting connections not as valuable in North Carolina; 3) Pedestrian regular-season coach. Nolan Richardson, former Arkansas coach Pros: 1) Already has title and wouldn’t be intimidated by Coach K or Ol’ Roy; 2) Up-tempo style to the max; 3) Impeccable on-court resume. Cons: 1) Doesn’t play well with others; 2) Age (65); 3) Potential to bring litigation if all doesn’t end well (see: Arkansas). Bob Huggins, former Cincinnati coach Pros: 1) Available. Cons: 1) Abominable graduation rates at Cincinnati; 2) Legal issues related to reported drinking issues. THE GRASS COULD BE GREENER These guys could be persuaded to leave their current place of employment for the glory of coaching in the ACC (read: gi-normous pay raise). Or they could simply be ready for a change of scenery. Mike Anderson, UAB coach Pros: 1) Built a winner in the shadow of Big Brother schools; 2) Up-tempo to the max as learned from Nolan Richardson at Arkansas. Cons: 1) Coveted by other schools who don’t share a cul-de-sac with Ol’ Roy and Coach K; 2) Winning in Conference USA ain’t the same as winning in the ACC. Karl Hobbs, George Washington coach Pros: 1) Built a winner in the crowded DC market; 2) Up-tempo, crowd-pleasing style. Cons: 1) Coveted by other schools who don’t share a cul-de-sac with Ol’ Roy and Coach K; 2) Winning in the Atlantic 10 ain’t the same as winning in the ACC. Phil Martelli, St. Joe’s coach Pros: 1) Personality; 2) Would enjoy being a foil to K and Ol’ Roy; 3) Built a winner at secondary school in a major market. Cons: 1) Hasn’t really done that much more than Sendek; 2) Will be 52 in August; 3) Pretty comfy at St. Joe’s; could be expensive. Tom Crean, Marquette Pros: 1) Good recruiter; 2) Good coach; 3) Good looking; 4) Good personality; 5) Good track record at Marquette (2003 Final Four); 6) Could be ready to leave Marquette now that he’s in a real conference. Cons: 1) Coveted by other schools, especially Indiana; 2) No real regional connections. Mike Montgomery, Golden State Warriors Pros: 1) Turned Stanford into a national power (1998 Final Four); 2) Turned Stanford into a national power and graduated his players; 3) Winning experience in a major conference; 4) Wouldn’t have to deal with Baron Davis anymore. Cons: 1) Would have to take a pay cut; 2) Has already said no to State once (1996); 3) No East Coast connections; 4) Already has a bad loss to Carolina (2000 NCAA Tournament). BIGGER COULD BE BETTER While any coach from the previous list would be a coup for State, these guys would be futures bet, kinda like the one Todd Turner made on Herb Sendek 10 years ago. Gregg Marshall, Winthrop coach Pros: 1) Six conference titles; 2) Six NCAA appearances; 3) Age (42); 4) Eager to make a name with the big boys; 5) Coaching and recruiting experience at a school that doesn’t get its choice of high school players. Cons: 1) Six NCAA losses without a win; 2) Winning in the Big South ain’t the same as winning in the ACC; 3) That’s Gregg, with two Gs, and zero sex appeal. Brad Brownell, UNC-Wilmington coach Pros: 1) Knows the regional landscape; 2) Learned from a great mentor (Jerry Wainwright); 3) Age (36). Cons: 1) Is he riding Wainwright’s coattails or can he build a program on his own?; 2) No Q rating. The Lloyd Christmas “So you’re telling me there’s a chance” Like Jim Carrey’s lovelorn character in “Dumb and Dumber” courting the lovely Lauren Holly, State’s has a chance with these targets — Rick Barnes, Texas; Bob Knight, Texas Tech and John Calipari, Memphis — but that is a chance by mathematical odds only. Out of these lists, McMillan would be the clear choice. Given the shelf life of an NBA coach, he could tell Allen to keep his money and choose security. He could also tell State, “Thanks but I’ll keep counting my zeroes until Allen fires me.” Of the other candidates, Marshall or Martelli would bring different qualities than Sendek. And to me, the most intriguing would be Richardson, who would like nothing better than to pull an Aaron Burr and duel with Ol’ Roy’s Alexander Hamilton."

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 4:36 PM. Reason : added link]

3/29/2006 4:35:31 PM

what about the george mason coach?

3/29/2006 8:02:54 PM

Someone create graphs for the following things:

- Blown leads
- Blown huge leads
- Rebounding
- Broken end game, game-losing plays
- Wins against ranked opponents
- Losses to weaker teams
- Scoring droughts

Let's see some real fucking trends in our improvement.

3/29/2006 8:41:39 PM

Quote :

" - Blown leads - Blown huge leads"

you are all delusional.

this last year, we actually had clutch plays and won close games. maybe it was only half the time, but last year, and the year before, we lost 80% of close games.

if youre a real fan you dont need a statistic, just a memory.

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 8:46 PM. Reason : -]

3/29/2006 8:45:57 PM

Do you know what a standard deviation is? You can use your memory, I'll use my brain.

PS, I like the flip flop. You were quick to use the graphs to point out "progress" in the first page, now you are fucking scared to do real analysis on how we have improved. That's just the kind of dickless stupidity that I expect from herb supporters.

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 8:56 PM. Reason : V exactly. add being flat-out wrong to the comedy of errors]

3/29/2006 8:53:21 PM

Half of those "close games" we won were where we blew double-digit leads in the 2nd half to let the other team back in it

3/29/2006 8:54:54 PM

no clue what you are talking about

3/29/2006 9:28:05 PM

^ Uh, at Miami? Or at Virginia Tech?

Just shut up while you're behind.

3/29/2006 9:30:12 PM

don't forget at clemson

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 9:32 PM. Reason : and against a higher-seeded calif team]

3/29/2006 9:31:59 PM

holy shit, 3 games?

EVERY TEAM LOSES SOME GAMES THAT THEY HAVE LEAD IN

jesus christ you people are insane.

3/29/2006 9:44:44 PM

i was mentioning games that we won when it was close at the end. though i do think there's something a little lacking in sendek's end-game coaching. BUT this year was far better for that than previous years.

3/29/2006 9:47:07 PM

If you want us to form an extensive list of the 15-20 point leads we've blown over the last few years in the final minutes of a game it can be done.


These blown leads aren't rare circumstances, they're recurring themes.

3/29/2006 9:47:35 PM

go for it. that seems like a pain in the ass. but if you want to go to the trouble for no reason, have fun.

3/29/2006 9:48:29 PM

^^ does JoshNumbers strike you as a rational person? It's not worth the effort. He's already back peddling from his most recent posts.

3/29/2006 9:50:24 PM

I'm not going to do it.


I remember the game I quit supporting Sendek....and it's still the biggest blunder of his career.

We were up 19 on Duke in the ACC championship game with about 7-8 mins on the clock. We wound up losing by 11, I think. They started pressing and Sendek didn't know what the hell to do. Between JJ beating us like a redheaded stepchild and our lack of a ballhandler / inbounding play, we managed about 15 straight turnovers and folded like a deck of cars.



Then there was the whole Vanderbilt thing in the NCAA's 2nd round. Up 9 with like 1:45 on the clock and lost.

3/29/2006 9:54:39 PM

cry me a damn river. why'd you come with the "i'm gonna shower you with statistics to support my claim" if you weren't going to do it. i knew you were bullshitting and just had some stupid sob story. omg we lost in the acc championship game to duke! years ago! alert the authorities!

perhaps you should see how we performed against the press this year. we didn't seem nearly so fazed by it.

3/29/2006 10:02:44 PM

Quote :

"why'd you come with the "i'm gonna shower you with statistics to support my claim" if you weren't going to do it. i knew you were bullshitting and just had some stupid sob story"

Do you even watch NC State basketball?

Any person who follows State can count at least 10 instances in the past 3-4 years where we have totally blown games we should have won. I'm not talking hard-fought games, either. I'm talking where we were up by 15+ and threw the parking brakes, switched to the "fuck scoring, we'lll just stall" offense, and lost.

A list has been made on here before. If you need someone to make you one, you don't watch enough basketball.

Quote :

"perhaps you should see how we performed against the press this year. we didn't seem nearly so fazed by it."

Apparently you missed the 8 consecutive turnovers when Atsur decided to start dribbling with his knees and pick the ball up against the double-team vs. FSU this year.

Or maybe the incredible acrobatic half-court Philip Rivers heaves we do to half court becuase we can't get the ball inbounds...that always go to the wrong team, BTW



[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 10:15 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2006 10:07:37 PM

BOSTON COLLEGE game @ the RBC. Crowd groaned when HERB called a timeout. Enough said.

3/29/2006 10:09:54 PM

Quote :

"FYI, we made it just as far as those teams. "

haha, OSU is a 2 seed this and they have Oden coming in. methinks they will be scary good in a year or 2.

unlike state, they have a tangible, legitimate reason to be looking forward to next year



[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 10:11 PM. Reason : hfds]

3/29/2006 10:10:31 PM