I hope to god that letter is fake. If I were going to write a letter to the Chancellor I would at least make it sound like I had some cognitive functions.

3/29/2006 1:10:54 PM

Quote :

"5 bowls in 6 years (Even with more bowls these days) is a feat I doubt has been matched at NC State."

What I don't understand is how you can point this out as a positive when more then half of D-1A makes a bowl game yet belittle the accomplishment of 5 straight NCAA tourneys...

I think BOTH are very worthy accomplishments and I'd be willing to be we are the only school in the ACC that has both made the NCAA tourney AND a bowl game in 5 of the last 6 years..

Quote :

"Chuck's had less time, yet it takes much longer to build a football program.... and "

I also take issue with what this suggests. The football program was in GREAT shape when Chuck got here. I mean Phil had already committed. A far cry then the bball program after the Les years...

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 1:16 PM. Reason : to clarify.. great shape in comparison..]

3/29/2006 1:12:06 PM

NyM410 with some of the best points, as always

3/29/2006 1:15:51 PM

The NCAA tournament is a feat... I'm not taking away from it.


However, it's been 10 years. It's not like it takes two decades to build a basketball team. It only takes 5-7 good players. We've improved, I just think if we were going to show flashes of becoming great again we'd have done it by now. The post wasn't meant to belittle Herb... but to reason about Amato.

NC State is horrible at football. NC State had horrible facilities...the worst in the ACC when he got here. We have a losing record to every ACC school except Virginia, WF, and Maryland.

Building a program and REbuilding a program are two different things. Basketball and football are also extremely different.

Quote :

"I also take issue with what this suggests. The football program was in GREAT shape when Chuck got here. I mean Phil had already committed. A far cry then the bball program after the Les years... "

Great shape? That's a stretch. We got lucky with a QB and a WR....other than that it was pretty bad. Our talent level now dwarfs any in our history except maybe under Sheridan.

I'm not saying Amato's done an amazing job...and Rivers helped.... but I'm saying it's ridiculous to expect short-term greatness for such a traditionally shitty program

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 1:19 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2006 1:17:05 PM

^^^duke is the only other acc school to go to the basketball tourny for the last 5 years, and we all know they haven't been to 5 bowl games lol.

3/29/2006 1:19:30 PM

I'm not understanding the facilities argument. If anything, that could be used to excuse O'Cain more then give praise to Amato. Yes, I can attribute a bit of the better facilities to the excitement Amato brought to the program but very simply they would have been upgraded regardless at some point.

Amato walked into the greatest QB in ACC history (#s wise), a Top draft pick at WR, and loads of defensive talent. It wasn't like he picked up a team in the cellar of the ACC the last 5 years.

I'm glad Chuck is still our coach and I do think he can bring success to the program but he was fortunate to have some of the players he did walk into on his team..

Quote :

"Great shape? That's a stretch."

I don't see it as a stretch. If Herb came into a program with two of the best players in the ACC lined up and ready to start for 2 and 4 years respectively we have no idea what he would have done early on. Save O' Cains 95 and 96 years and our football program was very succesful in the decade preceding Amato's hiring..

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 1:23 PM. Reason : f]

3/29/2006 1:20:55 PM

I'm not even saying Chuck is a good coach, or that he will be super-successful. We should have been better with our talent... I can admit that.


He had the greatest QB in ACC history.... and sadly he now has the worst in NC State history. If we had a semi-productive QB last year we'd have been a totally different team. yes, that's his fault, but it's not like he's anemic at coaching.

He's had a great offense. He's had a great defense. He's had great special teams. We've got to put it together. I just can't guage Amato's coaching ability on the Jay Davis days.

Quote :

"I don't see it as a stretch. If Herb came into a program with two of the best players in the ACC lined up and ready to start for 2 and 4 years respectively we have no idea what he would have done early on. Save O' Cains 95 and 96 years and our football program was very succesful in the decade preceding Amato's hiring.."

But Herb only plays 5 players at a time. Give him 2 and we'd be awesome (See: Duke)

In football, you need quite a bit more talent than that to be successful. You've still got 20 other players to play.... not counting special teams.



[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 1:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2006 1:23:52 PM

You made my point for me. Even with all the talent he has amassed (though recruiting seems to have tailed off a bit) without a QB worth a damn then the amount of success will be limited. I'm not seeing anything the next year or two that makes me think we will have any great amount of success. I feel that long term (3 and 4 years from now), with the way Amato is able to attract talent that we can develop a good QB (maybe Burke) and have all the other pieces in place.

So we were a better team with lesser all around quality (though the defense he acquired was ripe with talent IMO) but with 2 absolute stars, one at QB and one at WR.

I just hope the vultures don't oust Amato before then..

3/29/2006 1:30:29 PM

^^

Quote :

"but it's not like he's anemic at coaching."

penalties

3/29/2006 1:42:29 PM

At least Chuck gets his fanbase excited and shows his love for NC State. Herb comes across as wanting to win for himself and the team. He has no NC State pride.

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 1:55 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2006 1:53:59 PM

^ that better be sarcasm

3/29/2006 1:59:45 PM

...the team IS NC State

3/29/2006 2:09:32 PM

wow, just wow

3/29/2006 2:14:07 PM

Quote :

"WE ARE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE ATLANTIC COAST CONFERENCE!"

Clemson, FSU, Miami, Maryland, VT, GT, Wake, and UVA are all laughing AS HARD AS THEY CAN ABOUT OUR 5TH CONSECUTIVE NCAA APPEARANCE



not sticking up for Herb, but goddamn, this guy who wrote this letter is a fucking moron

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 3:02 PM. Reason : laughingstock of the ACC.... sure. ]

3/29/2006 3:01:53 PM

^I'd say that the fans who want Herb gone are the laughingstock.... They're also the source of most of the WTFOMG looks that people give State fans now....

3/29/2006 3:04:20 PM

Quote :

"The Wolfpack Club has built the finest facilities in the nation"

that would be the city of raleigh, dumbass

i dont think he is a booster at all

3/29/2006 3:16:48 PM

Not bashing Herb...but I think what a few people on here are trying to point out is that NCAA APPEARANCES don't mean a whole lot if you don't do anything with them. Most anti-Herb people just don't think he'll ever do anything with these APPEARANCES.

3/29/2006 3:27:02 PM

Quote :

"The football program was in GREAT shape when Chuck got here"

That's why we were picked to finish 8th in the conference Chuck's first year. The program was in terrible shape talent-wise and we got lucky with a kick ass coaching staff (ie, Norm Chow), and a couple of NFL first rounders (Rivers and KRob). We were also coming off a disappointing 6-6 year in which we lost to 1-8 UNC in Charlotte and got whipped by East Carolina in our last game. To say we were in great shape when Chuck came in implies that the cupboard was full, and it wasn't even close to that.

3/29/2006 4:47:26 PM

^We didn't even have a cupboard when Herb got here. We were just stacking shit on the kitchen counter in tupperware countainers....tupperware wasn't even rubbermaid, shit was food lion brand.

3/29/2006 4:51:38 PM

that dudes face

wtf

3/29/2006 4:59:26 PM

thegoodlife3 said

Quote :

"5 NCAA appearances in 5 years, thats all im saying"

Hahaha, you make it sound like that statement is teh wins or something. Well, here's your Participant Award...

3/29/2006 5:12:27 PM

it was in response to the "5 bowls in 6 years" statement

3/29/2006 5:15:23 PM

6 years ago we sucked at basketball and football


Now we're at least respectable in football (much more difficult to do I'd say), and we're above average in basketball.

You can have 5 good years of basketball from 2 good recruiting classes, and some decent role players.

You can have about 1 good year of football with 2 good recruiting classes, and even thats stretching it. You gotta have depth at every position, and I'd say it takes 5 years minimum to go from shitty to decent, and maybe 10 to go from shitty to good in football. And as NyM said, you gotta have a quarterback with those good recruits, otherwise you waste that great tallent.

Either way, with both coaches, we're in better shape now than when they came. Plus, I dont see Chuck making losing to UNC a habbit (not yet at least).


Whatever, I kinda wish we could all let this go just get back to pulling for the pack.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Come to the baseball game tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3/29/2006 5:16:17 PM

[Edited on March 29, 2006 at 5:22 PM. Reason : image didn't work]

3/29/2006 5:18:09 PM

that wasnt really a support Herb rant


It was more a "support chuck more than herb but look at the bright side"....i'm just sick of the bitching.

3/29/2006 5:19:42 PM

All that needs to be read out of this thread:

Quote :

"we're the laughing stock of the acc? how many teams in the acc didn't make it to the ncaa tournament this year? how many teams in the acc didn't go to a bowl? we went to a bowl, AND we made it to the ncaa... only one other program in the acc can claim that this year... in other words, stfu"

Quote :

"We were also coming off a disappointing 6-6 year in which we lost to 1-8 UNC in Charlotte and got whipped by East Carolina in our last game."

Remind me if we beat UNC the last 2 years???

The past 2 years we have went 5-6 and 7-5 with a low-level bowl win.

But Herb wasn't left with shit. Chuck was left with 3 CONSECUTIVE .500 SEASONS OR BETTER!

And about building a football program. Im not so sure about that, Ive seen turnarounds just as quick sometimes quicker in football. I mean they can get 25 new players each year. So whats really the difference?

WHY CANT WE JUST KEEP BOTH COACHES AND QUIT BITCHING?

3/29/2006 9:51:29 PM

Quote :

""It's time for NCSU to respect its legacy How long must supporters of N.C. State's rich basketball tradition be kept on hold by a small click of administrators who accept mediocrity on the court as the image which has been portrayed since Jim Valvano's departure? The national championships in 1974 and 1983 are just a blur in Wolfpack memories, and the younger generation cannot possibly relate to those accomplishments. Les Robinson was mediocre, and so is Herb Sendek. Where are their blue-chip student-athletes? Not in the NBA. Sendek is a fine gentleman, but has he recruited head-to-head with North Carolina, Duke or Wake Forest? Everett Case, the father of ACC basketball who brought the big-time collegiate game to Raleigh in the late 1940s, would surely turn over in his grave to see the state of the current program. Lee Fowler, the athletics director, has done a great job building state-of-the-art Wolfpack athletics facilities. But it's coaches who build great programs. I'll bet a coach like Rick Barnes could turn things around in short order just the way Roy Williams has at UNC and Skip Prosser Chris Paul did at Wake Forest. Wolfpack supporters have long been the laughing stock of other Big Four schools since Valvano's departure. I'd suggest we drop Division I basketball unless we properly live up to the legacy set by Case, Norm Sloan and Jim Valvano. George Cox Wilmington""

3/29/2006 9:55:31 PM

I will keep this in mind when elections roll around again

3/29/2006 11:42:35 PM

if you talk to any sports fan for any other team....ie duke or unc. we are the fucking laughing stock of the ACC. We as students are so excited to make the tournament and are used to the years we had in elementary, middle and high school when we REALLY sucked. Imagine the big time donars...wendell, george, others who are F N pissed because they went to school here in the 70's and 80's. No wonder they want good things for this program...because they know how it had been before. Take light of this when you don't go getting pissed when your an alumni donating cause we will still suck. For once I am pissed. I support herb, but you have to see where he is coming from. Everrett Case IS rolling around in his grave now with the way our sports are. DAMN PEOPLE.

3/30/2006 1:14:05 AM

3/30/2006 1:47:36 AM

^^i've actually heard rumors that wendell murphy said he would stop giving money to the school entirely if we got rid of sendek.

3/30/2006 1:59:13 AM

does anyone know lee fowler's email address, or his secretary's?

3/30/2006 2:11:07 AM

someone explain to me exactly why it would take so much longer to build a good football team. I realize that there are more players on the football team, but they play for the exact same amount of time as the basketball players do. So within 4 years in basketball you will have a team completely recruited by you, and the same for football. Hell I will even give football an extra year, since more players redshirt.

^ Dude, seriously, it doesn't matter. He isn't even gonna read your letter, unless there is a check for $texas inside.

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 3:37 AM. Reason : ^]

3/30/2006 3:36:15 AM

^theres strong evidence for and against that theory.

we could be a virginia tech. we definately arent an fsu or a miami or a kansas state.

when it comes to "building champions", there really arent any coaches out there who needed more than 8 years to get to a major bowl. even the long-term builders like Beamer had their teams in the Sugar or Orange by year 8.

in football, i think we have a great chance of getting to that level...if we get another coach. there are plenty of ones available who could do that. solich, mike price, dennis erickson, butch davis...theyre all just lying around waiting to get back to a major conference...

3/30/2006 2:34:24 PM

Quote :

"That's why we were picked to finish 8th in the conference Chuck's first year. The program was in terrible shape talent-wise and we got lucky with a kick ass coaching staff (ie, Norm Chow), and a couple of NFL first rounders (Rivers and KRob). We were also coming off a disappointing 6-6 year in which we lost to 1-8 UNC in Charlotte and got whipped by East Carolina in our last game. To say we were in great shape when Chuck came in implies that the cupboard was full, and it wasn't even close to that."

HELLO!!! That is my point.. Do you think if Chuck didn't walk into a program with arguably the top WR in the country at that time and at the beginning of the career of one of the greatest QBs in NCAA history that he would have had NEAR as much success the first 4 years???? If you say yes then I'll call you a liar and/or an idiot. That is what I'm saying. The program got BETTER results when we had no talent and 2 absolute bonafide STARS then it is now.

I'm not arguing in favor of canning EITHER person. I like Amato and I think eventually he WILL be succesful here on a high level. However, it's pretty clear to me we are going to be having this same argument in 2 years about HIM that we are having about Herb because it's going to take AT LEAST 2 years IMO to develop a QB good enough to lead this talent...

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 2:41 PM. Reason : f]

3/30/2006 2:40:34 PM

Quote :

" Imagine the big time donars...wendell, george, others who are F N pissed because they went to school here in the 70's and 80's."

I can assure you that if Murphy wanted Sendek gone, Sendek would be gone.

Quit making shit up.

3/30/2006 2:47:55 PM

Seriously.

It's no secret these guys 'pay the bills' so to speak..

3/30/2006 2:48:34 PM

Quote :

"...wendell, george, others who are F N pissed because they went to school here in the 70's and 80's."

and i doubt wendell murphy went to school in the 70's or 80's seeing as how he graduated from state 45 years ago

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 3:12 PM. Reason : jesus christ you are dumb]

3/30/2006 3:12:03 PM

Yeah seriously when the REAL big time alumni want Herb gone, he will be gone. Much like Davis at Indiana. Hopefully if that ever happens we can get a better coach not an equal one like Sampson.

3/30/2006 3:27:18 PM

Quote :

" and i doubt wendell murphy went to school in the 70's or 80's seeing as how he graduated from state 45 years ago [Edited on March 30, 2006 at 3:12 PM. Reason : jesus christ you are dumb]"

I'm pretty sure he meant that the man was alive and enjoyed NC State's glory days of the 70s and 80s. In one perspective, it is a little envious since some of us have only one championship in our lifetime, and some none.

ok, carry on.

3/30/2006 3:32:21 PM

what

fucking

legacy

3/30/2006 3:32:30 PM

^^ i'm pretty sure he said

Quote :

"...wendell, george, others who are F N pissed because they went to school here in the 70's and 80's."

3/30/2006 3:39:37 PM

haha takin up for the retard?

he said and meant, they were here in the 70's and 80's

3/30/2006 3:43:09 PM

no im taking up for myself

3/30/2006 3:46:56 PM

Wendell Murphy's family and the Sendek's are very close friends.


He will support him regardless... if Sendek ever is asked to step down, it won't be becuase Wendell Murphy threatened to stop donating.

3/30/2006 4:52:09 PM

Quote :

"Clemson, FSU, Miami, Maryland, VT, GT, Wake, and UVA are all laughing AS HARD AS THEY CAN ABOUT OUR 5TH CONSECUTIVE NCAA APPEARANCE"

Maryland won the national championship in 2002, GT went to the national championship in 2004, Wake won the 2005 ACC regular season championship, VT, Miami, and FSU are primarily football schools and they have all won championships recently...so i guess UVA and Clemson are laughing but I really dont think Maryland would trade their national title for 5 straight ncaa tourney bids

3/30/2006 5:34:27 PM

Quote :

"Big time alumni I know and the letters being big time alumni are sick of herb."

That's not exactly what I would call English.

3/31/2006 2:48:25 AM

it's sad when alumni care more about athletics than education.

that's the problem with D1 schools.

3/31/2006 10:09:50 AM

Hey, NC State was rated #2 in the nation for College Value by the Princeton Review.

I care about both athletics and academics. That's the reason I'm a member of both the Alumni Association and the Wolfpack Club.

3/31/2006 10:14:50 AM

This bae a lot of words dedicated for an Aaronborro level of writing.

3/31/2006 10:19:33 AM