Oh lord.

Quote :

"It was also a foul when Wade used hs shoulder to bulldoze his defender across the lane to create an open shot in the final minute."

Which shot are you talking about??? Since he's made like 5 shots in the last minutes of games this series, I really don't know what you're talking about. This is also the first I've seen this mentioned.

Quote :

"It was also a foul when Wade grabbed hos defender by the shorts/jersey and yanked him to the side when he made hos cut on the last play."

Again...when was this?? Was this before he got fouled?? Are you talking about the nudge he gave Jason Terry when Terry was already flying by him and Wade was in the midst of a triple team?? Because that's going to get called...

Quote :

"It was also a backcourt violation that should have been a turnover when Wade took the ball to start the final play of the game."

Ah yes...the phantom backcourt violation. You guys need to give it a rest. At least we can agree to disagree on the "foul on Wade" call....but the rest of this stuff is ridiculous.

6/21/2006 12:48:22 PM

Quote :

"THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF THE ARGUMENT YOU DIPSHIT, AND PRECISELY WHY CUBAN GOT FINED $DALLAS."

That's fucking life you dumbass. And people will always get mad when it happens against the team they are cheering for. Deal with it and shut the fuck up. And Cuban got fined for saying the leage was rigged and cussing at officials and possibly Stern. He wouldn't have gotten fined if he had said "Wade gets calls because he's a top 5 NBA player."

6/21/2006 12:50:40 PM

Quote :

"wade may have been bumped, but he wasnt bumped by nowitzki and that is who they called the foul on"

He still got fouled...so instead of messing up a foul call, the ref just messed up the person who he was calling it on. Definitely much less of a big deal if you ask me.

6/21/2006 12:52:28 PM

or instead of letting the PLAYERS dictate the outcome of the game, the refs dictated it

lets see how wonderboy Wade does when Big Diesel and Zo and Payton retire...that team is gonna be Wade + crap

6/21/2006 12:58:47 PM

there was nothing "phantom" about the backcourt violation. it was a clear violation.

he jumped from the frontcourt, caught the ball in the air, and then landed in the backcourt.

the rule states that for a player in the air, his position is that from which he last touched the court.

so he was in the frontcourt, jumped, caught the ball. this means he has established position with the ball in the frontcourt. then he landed in the backcourt, a clear violation


[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 1:05 PM. Reason : .]

6/21/2006 1:00:48 PM

I know the rule, but I don't remember that being exactly what happened. I'll STFU about it and self-pwn myself if I see a clip and it can be proven.

6/21/2006 1:07:11 PM

^^but he's Dwayne Wade...he gets more calls than Michael Jordan did in his 3rd year...theres no such thing as backcourt or travelling for him

6/21/2006 1:13:46 PM

Quote :

"That's fucking life you dumbass. And people will always get mad when it happens against the team they are cheering for. Deal with it and shut the fuck up."

p.s. I hate the NBA, didn't watch more than 1 minute in total of any games the entire year, including playoffs. I'm just quesitoning your stupid stupid stupid logic that a top player gets a free pass for some reason because this applies to all sports. It can be life all it wants to be. If that is your argument for everything, then you just need to stop your dumb ass long winded rants.

6/21/2006 1:16:47 PM

p.s. you should watch more of the NBA...if you had watched the playoffs this year and didnt like them you seriously have something wrong with you

6/21/2006 1:21:22 PM

Quote :

"p.s. I hate the NBA, didn't watch more than 1 minute in total of any games the entire year, including playoffs."

Stop right there and get the fuck out of this thread.

AND...look what I found in relation to the backcourt violation...

General Rule:

Quote :

"Rule 10 Section X - Ball in Backcourt a. A player shall not be the first to touch a ball which he or a teammate caused to go from frontcourt to backcourt while his team was in control of the ball. EXCEPTION: Rule 8-Section III-e (EXCEPTION). Rule 8, Section III e. Any ball out-of-bounds in a team's frontcourt or at the midcourt line cannot be passed into the backcourt. On all backcourt and midcourt violations, the ball shall be awarded to the opposing team at the midcourt line, and must be passed into the frontcourt. EXCEPTION: During the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period, the ball may be passed anywhere (frontcourt or backcourt) on the court. "

This is why it wasn't called:

Quote :

"g. Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, or (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period. "

I got all of that from this website:

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=27095

6/21/2006 1:24:46 PM

Quote :

"p.s. you should watch more of the NBA...if you had watched the playoffs this year and didnt like them you seriously have something wrong with you"

Yea, I heard/read they were decent. I usually watch during playoff time, but I've been a little too busy.

Quote :

"Stop right there and get the fuck out of this thread."

Like I said, you lack the ability to read sometimes it seems, because I clearly addressed this

Quote :

"I'm just quesitoning your stupid stupid stupid logic that a top player gets a free pass for some reason because this applies to all sports. It can be life all it wants to be. If that is your argument for everything, then you just need to stop your dumb ass long winded rants."

So be out with it, is it ok in your world for the top players to get free passes if it means the integrity of the game is compromised? Do you not mind the loss of fair play and parity if guys that already have an advantage over everyone else because of natural ability + hard work get help from officials?

6/21/2006 1:28:12 PM

Quote :

"So be out with it, is it ok in your world for the top players to get free passes"

They don't get "free passes". But they do get a "fair shake" on calls. And I don't disagree with that. They work hard, have amazing talent, and they do a lot for the league, their team, the city of their team, etc... and they deserve to get the benefit of an iffy call if it comes up.

Wade goes hard to the basket a lot and usually gets fouled...often times fighting through a foul and making a difficult shot. Refs know that. If he goes hard to the basket, gets bumped or grazed on the arm, and misses a layup...then he'll probably get the call. I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 1:49 PM. Reason : .]

6/21/2006 1:48:51 PM

and those same bumps and grazes wouldnt be called for lesser players which equals preferential treatment which equals free passes.

for most players, there has to be strong evidence that they were fouled, for players like wade, there has to be strong evidence that they werent fouled.

6/21/2006 1:52:55 PM

it wasnt a backcourt violation.

you are allowed to do exactly what he did in the last two minutes of a ball game.

Heat win the game, the series, and the World Championship.

plz quit crying about this.

oh and btw, the heat will have cap room for some key offseason aquisitions to surround Wade and Shaq.

If they can get someone (or two people) who are great shooters, they should be all set for another run next year.

I also expect Wayne Simien to be a big contributor as well. That kid has got some talent.

6/21/2006 1:54:50 PM

Quote :

"They work hard, have amazing talent, and they do a lot for the league, their team, the city of their team, etc... and they deserve to get the benefit of an iffy call if it comes up."

Really? None of these are reasons to deserve calls. These players would do all these things for their city regardless of preferrential treatment (nevermind they are becoming filthy fucking rich playing a game, so don't act like they are doing anyone favors). It doesn't really do much for the sport (and for all those things you just mentioned) when the integrity of the game gets compromised (and thusly watered down) and it drives away fans. You are the minority, not the majority, so don't think that this free pass treatment is good for the game, or any sport for that matter.

6/21/2006 1:57:29 PM

Quote :

"They don't get "free passes". But they do get a "fair shake" on calls. And I don't disagree with that. They work hard, have amazing talent, and they do a lot for the league, their team, the city of their team, etc... and they deserve to get the benefit of an iffy call if it comes up."

i'm fully aware that some players get "star treatment"...i just think wade got too much...for one thing, michael jordan didnt get that kind of calls in his 3rd year

6/21/2006 1:58:03 PM

^He also wasnt in the NBA finals then, was he.

6/21/2006 1:58:49 PM

What hell is ya'lls definition of a free pass?? To me, a free pass is some rich kid getting into a prestigous school because his daddy gave money to build the library or because he knows the head of admissions.

Wade doesn't get any free passes. He still works his ass off every game. He still goes to the floor more than anybody else in the leage except for Iverson. He gets the benefit of a few calls, but so does Kobe, Dirk, Nash (with the exception of those bullshit Game 3 no-calls), Timmy D, Lebron, etc. He also goes to the rim more than those goes, so he's probably going to get the benefit of a few more calls than them too. I can't believe we're still arguing about this (which is partly my fault because I won't let it go).

6/21/2006 2:00:14 PM

Quote :

"^He also wasnt in the NBA finals then, was he."

Yea, that makes even more sense, when you take the two best teams, where no-one should need help, and give a slant towards one player.

Oh great, having failed to construct a logical argument, you have tried to turn this into a semantics debate.

Why don't you stop taking free pass so literally. Here:

Quote :

"He gets the benefit of a few calls"

And replace "few" with "entirely too many for a championship game", and you have my definition of a free pass in this instance.

[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 2:03 PM. Reason : x]

6/21/2006 2:01:02 PM

so if jordan had shaq on his team he wouldve gotten those bullshit calls too? maybe

btw how come Nowitzki, one of the best players in the league, didnt get the same calls?

6/21/2006 2:02:00 PM

Quote :

"i just think wade got too much..."

I was thinking about the other day...and it's still debatable...but I think he's in that upper stratosphere where you get those calls. This year's playoffs have put him in that Kobe/Lebron untouchable level. I knew he was one of the best before the playoffs started, but when he started hitting those jumpshots with guys all over him and just taking the game over in the 4th quarter, he put himself at the top echelon.

Quote :

"You are the minority, not the majority, so don't think that this free pass treatment is good for the game, or any sport for that matter. "

I never said its good for the game. But I'm also realistic, and I know it's going to happen...so why continue to be a bitch about it.

6/21/2006 2:08:45 PM

Quote :

"And replace "few" with "entirely too many for a championship game", and you have my definition of a free pass in this instance"

You didn't even watch "1 minute" of the playoffs you dumb fuck....so how in the hell would you know??

How can you continue to comment on shit that you didn't even watch?? Please get hell out of this thread.

Quote :

"btw how come Nowitzki, one of the best players in the league, didnt get the same calls?"

He does get his share of his calls...but you are right in that he doesn't get as many as Wade and the other guys like Kobe and Lebron. I can't really explain why Dirk doesn't get a lot of calls. He obviously doesn't go to the basket as much as the rest of them (although he has increased that). He's always flailing his arms around after an uncontested shot...maybe its hard to tell when he's been hit or not....I really have no idea.

6/21/2006 2:13:25 PM

Quote :

"with the exception of those bullshit Game 3 no-calls"

oh so the refs showing slant towards kobe is bullshit, but for wade it is deserved?

6/21/2006 2:28:50 PM

^^becasue he is 7 feet tall and likes to shoot fade aways and three pointers.

Its funny how quickly everyone has seemed to forget that in the Mavs v. the Spurs series, Dirk went to the line 80 times, making 75, including game 3, where he went 21-24 from the line.

He also set the all time NBA record with most trips to the free throw line in an NBA playoffs.

They had their chances, but because of stellar team defense, he just couldnt get to the rim and draw fouls.

Dirk choked.

He could have gotten the same calls as Wade, but chose to settle for the easy way out. Ultimately, they paid the price for it.

6/21/2006 2:30:04 PM

kobe is a better offensive player and defensive player than wade

but wade edges him out on being a good teammate

6/21/2006 2:30:34 PM

^^ GREAT POINT.

6/21/2006 2:31:08 PM

i agree that dirk is a good enough shooter where he settles for fadeaways where wade is great at slashing...but there were so many calls where wade initiated the contact...i dunno...im not a mavs fan but i think wade got more calls than he shouldve

6/21/2006 2:33:43 PM

Quote :

"oh so the refs showing slant towards kobe is bullshit, but for wade it is deserved?"

First, I bitched about those two calls once...and then let it go. Because I understand that stuff like that happens.

Second...it was about Nash getting fouled and there not being a call (and the fact that he was screaming for a timeout)...not about Kobe getting any calls. I really didn't have any qualms about the calls Kobe got in that series.

6/21/2006 2:36:57 PM

Quote :

"Good, not great Kelly Dwyer, SI.com By any reasonable metric, the Dallas Mavericks had a successful year in 2005-06. Winning 60 games for the second time in franchise history, Avery Johnson's crew utilized an ultra-efficient offense and an improving defense to knock off the defending champion Spurs in the second round of the playoffs and eventually make its first Finals appearance. Though they let the ring slip away -- winning the first two Finals games handily before dropping four straight -- the Mavericks still won 74 out of 105 contests on the season and should be commended for their 8-month run. Alas, there are five reasons the Mavericks lost to the Heat. We'll start with the obvious: 1. They didn't make shots After shooting 45-, 47- and 46-percent in the first three rounds, the Mavericks dropped to 42-percent shooting against the Heat, and worse, 40-percent in the four losses. Though Dallas made more than 37 percent of its 3-pointers in the regular season, it managed just 28-percent in the Finals. Even worse, its marksmanship worsened as its appetite for the long-ball grew. The Mavericks averaged 13.5 3-point attempts a game in the first three rounds (making 33 percent), but took 19.3 against Miami. The biggest culprit was Dirk Nowitzki, who took 2.5 3s a game in the first three rounds, before shooting 6-of-24 against the Heat. Miami's defense kept Nowitzki (who shot 39 percent on the series) out of his comfort zone around the free-throw line. Devin Harris (52-percent shooting entering the Finals, 36-percent against Miami) and Jerry Stackhouse (42-percent, 35.5-percent ) also added to the decline, while Josh Howard's 3-point touch (41-percent entering the Finals, 26-percent in the last six games) dried up as well. 2. Lack of aggression against Dwyane Wade Wade was the best player in the Finals and the best player in the playoffs, and one of the best players in the NBA at only 24-years-old. No matter the game plan, Wade is going to be able to put up plenty of shots, free himself for good looks and work long enough to cobble together at least his usual per-game averages -- even against double and triple teams. Still, Mavs coach Avery Johnson waited until Game 5 to throw the first serious double-teams at Wade (even waiting too long in that game before unleashing the second defender), and waited until Game 6 to allow Marquis Daniels to guard Wade for an extended period of time. Daniels didn't shut Wade down, nobody in this league can do that, but he made him work and bothered his shots. Yet, after a successful second and third quarter run with Marquis guarding Wade, Daniels was on the bench for the bulk of the fourth quarter. Wade hit a huge shot at the end of regulation in Game 5 against Adrian Griffin who, although he is a brilliant team defender, hasn't been able to stay in front of guards for years; especially someone of Wade's talent. Had Johnson showed Wade (who led his team in scoring for the second straight season) the same respect he showed Shaquille O'Neal, the Mavericks may have won this thing. 3. Go ahead, hack the Shaq In the Finals, the Miami Heat scored 557 points in 563 possessions, pretty inefficient, but enough to win the ring. Their efficiency would have been much higher had the Heat made their free throws, as they made just 60 percent from the line in the Finals. O'Neal shot 29 percent from the free-throw line in the series, missing 34-of-48, not including a significant amount of misses that were waved off due to lane violations. Though Johnson employed the Hack-a-Shaq strategy at times, he didn't send O'Neal to the line enough. Remember, this is a team averaging about a point per possession, so odds are O'Neal will struggle to match the average -- and with your season on the line, should desperate times call for desperate measures? 4. Bad picks, no rolls The potent pick-and-roll showcased by Jason Terry and Dirk Nowitzki first came to light during last season's playoff run, which saw the Mavs lose in six games during the Conference Semifinals. This season, it became the team's focal point -- before, like most successful things for Dallas, dying altogether during the team's four-game losing streak in the Finals. Though Miami's zone defense took Dallas away from its two-man game, it was no excuse for the fact that Terry and Nowitzkicouldn't settle themselves enough to run the most basic -- and most effective -- of basketball plays. With Nowitzki struggling for most of the Finals, Terry kept his wits about him offensively, averaging 22 points per game and keeping an aggressive tone. Still, in Game 6, his shot fell flat. He missed 18 of 25 looks, made just 2-of-11 from behind the arc, and seemed incapable of getting into the lane for the floater that worked so well for him in the regular season and Western playoffs. Nowitzki got his licks in after setting the picks, but as mentioned above, he missed too many 3-pointers -- many on wide-open looks. 5. Inexperience For years, Finals inexperience did teams in, but all of that seemed to change in 1991. That year, Michael Jordan's Bulls took down a veteran Laker squad run by Magic Johnson, and since then each of this league's champions (the Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Lakers and Pistons) have won the trophy in their first trip to the Finals as a collective unit. That is to say, 2000's version of the Lakers didn't have to pay their dues with a loss before returning to win the next year, 2004's Pistons didn't lose in its first time back in the Finals since 1990, and on and on. The 2006 Finals seemed like a regression to the orthodoxy, the Mavericks frittered away a loss in Game 3 and near-certain 3-0 lead, and fell apart after that. Meanwhile, the Heat -- full of ring-bearers such as Pat Riley and O'Neal alongside vets such as Gary Payton who had already fallen short in the Finals -- stuck together long enough to win the thing. These Mavericks didn't know how to close it out. They lost six of seven playoff games decided by three points or less, their free-throw touch left them late in Games 3 and 5, and Johnson was unable to counter Riley's schemes when it counted. You can blame distractions -- Stackhouse's suspension, Mark Cuban's gripes, three games in Miami, Keith Van Horn's beard -- all you want; the real reason these Mavericks lost the title is because they weren't ready to win the darn thing. For a while, the Dallas Mavericks were the best team in the NBA, but they weren't a champion. Not yet, at least."

6/21/2006 2:58:23 PM

^Exactly.

6/21/2006 3:09:57 PM

Quote :

"You didn't even watch "1 minute" of the playoffs you dumb fuck....so how in the hell would you know??"

I wasn't playing the drums while Washington crossed the Delaware, but after reading about it, I have a pretty good idea of what happened.

Quote :

"How can you continue to comment on shit that you didn't even watch?? Please get hell out of this thread."

It's pretty easy to see you'll look less dominated in this thread if I just stop posting, right?

6/21/2006 3:18:08 PM

Quote :

"I wasn't playing the drums while Washington crossed the Delaware, but after reading about it, I have a pretty good idea of what happened."

Hahahahaha. Wow. I use to take your posts somewhat seriously, but now I won't anymore. Keep reading "unbiased" accounts from twwers and media people. For every article bitching about officiating, I can match it with one saying that it didn't matter.

Quote :

"It's pretty easy to see you'll look less dominated in this thread if I just stop posting, right?"

I've pretty much owned you in every thread that we've argued. It makes it clear now as to why....you don't even watch the sporting events you argue about. Please run along. I'd rather argue about the game with people who ACTUALLY WATCHED THE GAME.

6/21/2006 4:14:19 PM

Quote :

"Hahahahaha. Wow. I use to take your posts somewhat seriously, but now I won't anymore. Keep reading "unbiased" accounts from twwers and media people. For every article bitching about officiating, I can match it with one saying that it didn't matter."

Why are you the only one arguing for the Heat here. Panthro is taking a different line, so I won't consider him. You are the minority in this very thread of just a few people. Are you saying accounts of the war, historical documents are so biased that I can't believe their recounting of the events?

Quote :

"For every article bitching about officiating, I can match it with one saying that it didn't matter."

"It didn't matter"? Well just hold on a god damn minute here. What are we arguing? That Wade got favored player status, a free ride, and the integrity of the game (and other sports, don't forget) was compromised...or that it didn't matter? Because those are two different arguments. I'm sure you can find tons of reports that say if the heat would have done XYZ (easy for even some dumb journalist to see in retrospect) then they would have overcome all the help Wade received from the refs. I'm not arguing that. Produce some articles that are in favor of the better players getting help from the officials. Can you do that?

6/21/2006 4:31:30 PM

All I am saying is, with all this talk about the Mavs getting screwed by the refs, those zebras are the same ones that bailed them out of the San Antonio series.

The Heat shot 84 free throws in games 2-6 as a team, but only made 55% of those shots. The Mavericks shot 47 free throws, and made 85%. As big as the descrepancy was in free throws attempted, actual made shots were about the same.

Dirk, by himself, went 75-80 from the line vs. the Spurs, including the and1 at the end of game 7 that tied the score and ultimately led to a Mavs victory. The entire team of San Antonio only shot 65 free throws during that same series.

Live by the refs calls, die by their calls as well.

[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 4:57 PM. Reason : asdf]

6/21/2006 4:38:34 PM

stop making shit up

the spurs shot a total of 235 free throws that series.

the mavs shot 223

Tim Duncan shot 90 free throws during that series


also, the heat shot 207 free throws in the finals and hit 125 of them. that's 60%.

wade took 97 free throws himself.

the mavs took 155 free throws.

http://www.nba.com/mavericks/stats/2005/conf_semi_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2005/conf_semi_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2005/nba_finals_stats.html



[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 4:54 PM. Reason : not sure where you're pulling those bullshit numbers from]

6/21/2006 4:47:36 PM

games 2-6 dumbass.

not the entire series.

Read my last post closer.



[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 4:58 PM. Reason : ]

6/21/2006 4:58:24 PM

you edited

and by the way, you're still full of shit

so, the heat shot 123 free throws in game 1?

DAMN

6/21/2006 5:00:15 PM

oops...

I meant 3-6.

The games the heat won

6/21/2006 5:00:51 PM

6/21/2006 5:02:28 PM

EWW, QUIT GETTING YOUR KIDNEY CANCER JUICES ON THE O'BRIEN TROPHY

6/21/2006 5:11:32 PM

Quote :

"obviously, dallas could have done some thing differently or made a few more shots and still won, but you cant do like stern and say "oh but he missed those foul shots" when people talk about the refs. yea, he missed the foul shots, that is an example of a player deciding a game. yea, wade missed that layup, that is an example of a player deciding a game. yea, the refs made a few no-calls and one questionable call at the end, that is a ref deciding a game."

winner

sux that this got buried at the end of the page

6/21/2006 5:47:35 PM