i sure hope so!

7/27/2006 1:04:41 PM

haha sounds like a keeper!11

7/27/2006 1:05:38 PM

Quote :

"i like to dismiss people's opinions completely and call them stupid because i'm closeminded and i dont agree with them and i'm always right and nobody thinks differently than me and cycling is the greatest "sport" ever"

I didn't dismiss your opinion, I just generally attacked you for shits and giggles. I think its fine for you to have the opinion you do, if you want to live an unelightened life, thats fine by me. Keep tokin!

And you want to talk about closeminded, you're the one who outright says the sport sucks and you've probably never been on a road bike.

7/27/2006 1:53:27 PM

i think you guys are missing the point... who doesn't cheat in cycling? it's the most drug soaked sport in the world

[Edited on July 27, 2006 at 2:13 PM. Reason : ]

7/27/2006 2:12:49 PM

it certainly seems that way.

7/27/2006 2:14:09 PM

well this thread has officially gone to shit

7/27/2006 2:39:20 PM

yeah, when i saw this was 2 pages, i thought there might be some pertinent info here....

7/27/2006 3:16:04 PM

Quote :

"And you want to talk about closeminded, you're the one who outright says the sport sucks and you've probably never been on a road bike."

nice closeminded assumption

i used to have a pinarello back in the day...i was in pretty damn good shape when i was running track and biking

the fact that people give a fuck about watching drug-infested international cycling is beyond me though...dont understand the rules to american football or something?

7/27/2006 3:43:27 PM

What does drugs in cycling have to do with drugs in football...wait...

7/27/2006 3:53:08 PM

i'm sure all of the steelers, patriots, buccaneers, rams, and ravens (ie superbowl champs since lance's 1st tour victory) have been scrutinized and accused of taking performance enhancing drugs

cycling is dirtier than track and field...they have so much testing because the sport is that dirty

and boring as shit to watch

7/27/2006 4:04:43 PM

another thread gayed up by treetwista

7/27/2006 4:05:51 PM

yeah cause cycling threads are really heterosexual to begin with

7/27/2006 4:07:44 PM

7/27/2006 4:10:15 PM

i fuckin hate cheating bitches

erase everything hes ever done in his career, maybe these fucktards will learn to compete honestly

7/27/2006 4:14:53 PM

his own mother said if he was taking drugs for pain in his hip then thats one thing...but if he was cheating, to take away the title

7/27/2006 4:18:17 PM

Quote :

"i woulda been like uh yea, the testosterone came from my nuts, durrrr"

Haha. For the win!

7/27/2006 8:28:00 PM

^^sounds like a good mom

7/27/2006 10:09:21 PM

Lance Armstrong is on the Carson Daly show tonight...I don't expect anything earth-shattering, but it'd be low even for Carson Daly to not address the Floyd thing with Lance.

7/28/2006 1:38:31 AM

^Why would Lance know anything about Syd Barrett?

[Edited on July 28, 2006 at 8:45 AM. Reason : -]

7/28/2006 8:34:14 AM

The sport is so dirty its even named after the drug use...they gotta cycle off their roid pumping before the next drug test

thats the real sport to this, and its much more fun to watch

[Edited on July 28, 2006 at 9:28 AM. Reason : ;]

7/28/2006 9:28:31 AM

Quote :

"The sport is so dirty its even named after the drug use...they gotta cycle off their roid pumping before the next drug test"

It's mostly not roids. More blood enhancing stuff. But I'll give you a 3/10 for effort on the funny.

7/28/2006 10:12:49 AM

Quote :

"yeah you're right...cycling is a really popular sport in the US...thanks for convincing me...fucking homo"

Are you tryin to say it's not popular?

I rode in a 100 kilometer ride on the 4th of July, and there were over 700 riders there, basically just from Cary/Raleigh. How is cycling not considered popular?

7/28/2006 12:17:51 PM

wow...700 riders

you ever been to a football or basketball or baseball game or nascar race or golf tournament? cause all those have a shitload more fans

again, i'm not saying your sport necessarily sucks...its all a matter of opinion of what you like

but to try and say its a popular sport is pretty absurd...what channel did they broadcast the tour on? CBS? ABC? NBC? ESPN? none of those?

7/28/2006 1:01:11 PM

cycling as an activity is very popular. Probably more adults ride bikes regularly than play football, baseball, soccer, basketball, etc.

cycling as a spectator sport is not popular at all. probably 90% of the people out on weekend rides in Cary and Raleigh do not follow any professional cycling, domestic or international, and couldn't name any American riders other than Lemond and Armstrong, and Landis as of 2 weeks ago, or any international cyclist except maybe Ullrich. They are riding for the enjoyment of the activity, not because they are die hard cycling fans.

7/28/2006 1:09:00 PM

Quote :

"again, i'm not saying your sport necessarily sucks"

Quote :

"you know a sport sucks ass when the most news worthy stories about the sport are about cancer or cheating"

7/28/2006 1:10:40 PM

why didnt you quote the part about me saying whether or not the sport sucks depends on personal opinion?

that didnt fit in with your "argument"?

7/28/2006 1:13:58 PM

Quote :

" It's mostly not roids. More blood enhancing stuff. But I'll give you a 3/10 for effort on the funny."

hair splittin eh? its roids they all cheat, blood enhancing/performance enhancing/roids its all underhanded cheating and one in the same

7/28/2006 2:17:53 PM

i dont know of another sport where the players have to give samples multiple times a day

7/28/2006 4:09:34 PM

Okay this is just ridiculous. What a lying little bitch. Now he's saying he expects the other sample to come back with the same results.

So is he admitting to cheating?

No, he's saying the testosterone levels are natural...

What a dumb fuck. When its 6 times higher than normal levels that's not natural.

Lump him with Marion Jones and Rafael Palmeiro as people I cant stand. Its one thing to be Giambi or Bonds and just deny, deny, deny until you finally have to admit it. But don't aggressively deny it and act like you cant believe someone would accuse you and all that garbage.

Its like if you were cheating on your g/f. Of course you'd deny it. But you cant start screaming at her and calling her a bitch for accusing you of it if she's right.

7/28/2006 6:22:54 PM

Way to prejudge you dipshit. You also sound really fucking stupid for saying there is a difference between just denying it then later having to admit it and outright saying it isn't true. I mean for fucks sake, a doper is a doper. Way to try to and be pissy about it and pick out some lame logic to be pissy about it for. Just fucking wait until it's done.

These comments to me don't seem as arrogant as you just made him out to be

Quote :

"Landis of course has a few options at the moment. He'll be waiting on the results of his B-Sample test, which he admitted yesterday that he can pretty much assume will come up positive again. Speaking with Austin Murphy of CNN/SI, Landis sighed that he "can't be hopeful" that the B-Sample will be any different: "I'm a realist.""

Quote :

"But, Landis being the realist, realizes the hard truth: "I wouldn't hold it against somebody if they don't believe me.""

7/28/2006 6:39:16 PM

And you haters can suck on this too, fucking fags

Quote :

"Let's Look At Something A Little Different Of note otherwise...Landis' performance in Stage 17 in terms of power was hugely impressive. No question. BUT, it was nothing different than what he had done in training countless times before. How do we know this? Floyd rides with a PowerTap, Floyd's coach is Allen Lim, and Allen Lim makes all of Floyd's data known on Bicycling.com. It is interesting to note that Floyd's solo exploit on Stage 17 was oh so much like his training in the mountains: time trial in the valleys (he often switches to a time trial bike in training) and climb like hell when the road tilts upwards. Here's Floyd's data from Stage 17 (source: Allen Lim, Bicycling.com): - 5 hours 23 minutes and 36 seconds. - Covering 200.5 kilometers (130 km alone in the wind). - At a speed of 37.175 km/hr. - Averaging 281 watts when moving for the whole ride and 318 watts over the last two hours. - Averaging 324 watts while pedaling for the whole ride and 364 watts over the last 2 hours. - At an average cadence of 89 rpm. - 5456 kj - Attacking about a quarter of the way up the Col des Saisies for 30 seconds at 544 watts, which settled into a 5-minute peak of 451 watts, which continued for 10 minutes at an average of power of 431 watts, and left everyone in his dust after 30 minutes at an average power of 401 watts. Landis rode brilliantly in Stage 17, the only question now is how - was it of his own power or the help of something else? - Spending 13.2% of his time or 43 minutes coasting like a rocket on the descents and another 60% between 4 to 7 watts per kilogram of body weight (aka, the pain cave). - Holding onto 373 watts over the Col de Joux-Plane. What About Training? Floyd says his ride on Stage 17 has everything to do with hard work and nothing to do with doping, so let's look at the hard. Now, we can compare Stage 17 with what a 'typical' training ride looks like for Floyd Landis, as Lim wrote about this at the start of the 2005 Tour de France - and consider this was from one year ago - Floyd hopefully improved over the past year... Training Ride: Duration: 6:04 (hrs:min) Distance: 115 miles Average Speed: 19.0 mph Perception of Effort (1-10): 7 Average Power: 247 Watts Total Work from Power: 5394 Kjoules Peak Power for 1 min: 545 watts Peak Power for 5 min: 470 watts Peak Power for 30 min: 391 watts Peak Power for 1 hour: 377 watts Peak Power for 2 hours: 372 watts This of course proves absolutely nothing - except that Floyd did nothing super-human that day. He rode everyone off of his wheel and proceeded to ride exactly how he would in training. Again, this does not have anything to do with abnormalities in testosterone/epitestosterone ratios, it only shows that hey, Floyd rocked a great ride on Stage 17, but it wasn't superhuman - it was what one should have expected in that situation from Landis. "

7/28/2006 6:41:59 PM

he's full of shit.

Doper.


And no its way different to be Giambi and just be like "no", "no", "no"

what Marion Jones did was just wrong getting up on that podium and yelling at people and crying.

What Palmeiro did was completely outrageous waving his finger at me and the rest of the world. Fuck that guy, he deserves jail time.

This guy isnt really being that much of an asshole but he's insulting my intelligence to think he just randomly had levels that were 6x higher that day and he made a triumphant push.

What am i supposed to believe that he stayed up all night watching internet porn and his body just couldnt stop producing testosterone?

He should just apologize or better yet lie and say he was taking drugs for his hip and didnt realize it would affect his testosterone levels. Just play dumb and save face a little bit...

7/28/2006 6:46:09 PM

You could do yourself a favor and read the post right above yours. Or continue to be ignorant. Suit yourself.

7/28/2006 11:43:33 PM

I'm glad that the NFL doesn't do testosterone/epitestosterone ratio testing, or otherwise there would be no such thing as an offensive lineman.

Quote :

"This guy isnt really being that much of an asshole but he's insulting my intelligence to think he just randomly had levels that were 6x higher that day and he made a triumphant push. "

the cutoff in the NFL is over 6x higher than the average athlete, but his testosterone levels aren't what is being questioned here. instead, it's the lack of epitestosterone in his body that signals the testosterone that was in his body wasn't naturally made. your nuts produce both chemicals at a close to 1:1 ratio. when you put exogenous testosterone into your body, your nuts stop making anything and you end up with almost no epitestosterone circulating in the body. BALCO labs got around this by making transdermal gels with both testosterone and epitestosterone in them, so that they throw off the test. Apparently this racer must not have been that well connected.

[Edited on July 29, 2006 at 12:13 AM. Reason : clarify]

7/29/2006 12:07:24 AM

right it was a 6:1 ratio in his body.

Which he says was natural.


Which clearly it isn't.


Eat a dick cypher. You are shoved so far up this clown's asshole you can't even read the press releases.

[Edited on July 29, 2006 at 1:31 PM. Reason : a]

7/29/2006 1:31:39 PM

I read the press releases dick wits. I have been saying to friends that I think everyone in the industry does the drugs, he probably does too, even though there is some evidence that the ride he had in stage 17 wasn't anything monumental.

My rant isn't really about you getting on his case, its about you being a dumbass trying to make some kind of moral distinction between denying then capitulating to just outright saying you don't do them.

Thats my beef, get your shit straight before you try to post.

7/29/2006 1:38:17 PM

what I don't understand is why a racer would want to take testosterone. cyclists and gymnasts are usually warned to stay far away from testosterone, because it bloats the user and adds unneeded pounds of water weight that must be carried. Testosterone is not some miracle drug that is going to make someone go from almost coming in last to winning a stage overnight. testosterone isn't going to increase his energy expenditure or increase his red blood cell count, especially not in that amount of time. There's a reason why all the cyclists and olympic runners that have been busted for steroids in the past got busted for winstrol and not testosterone.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that a mixup in a blood transfusion or something along these lines caused his ratio to be out of whack. I'd be really surprised to find out he intentionally took testosterone during the tour.

7/29/2006 5:05:07 PM

A high T/E test just says that more tests should be done, there are natural reasons his levels could be that high.

7/29/2006 5:37:55 PM

^^

yea

no cyclist with half a brain would use test. there are far more effective ways of blood dopings, epo, ect, for the endurance athlete.

test would help with muscle growth, focus and strength and yes it raises your hemocrit, but its far down the list on the best choices for cycling.

Quote :

"increase his red blood cell count"

it will do that, a little. (very little relative to other drugs)

also, think of the stupidity factor. if youre gonna use anabolic steriods, you would AT LEAST go the balco route and use a designer one, they are easy to make, and probably wouldnt be easilty detected. whereas, straight up test will get caught every time.


[Edited on July 29, 2006 at 5:48 PM. Reason : tu]

7/29/2006 5:43:05 PM

A healthy male that already has normal testosterone levels won't see much of any noticeable increase in RBC count by using testosterone. some people claim that it can at incredibly high dosages, such as the gram a week dosages common among NFL linemen, but even then it would take weeks to happen if it did so by the same mechanisms as other androgens. It's definitely not something you'd do overnight to get a better run the next day after bombing a stage unless you were taking it for the sole purpose of water retention to mask a raised hematocrit level from using EPO or additional blood.

my long shot guess is that he was using testosterone 2 months before the tour in an attempt to build muscle mass and to go through practice at a heavier weight than he would enter the tour at. at this point he also withdrew a pint or two of blood and had the plasma removed from it so that he could inject that into himself during the tour. somewhere around stage 15 he doped his blood with the blood he had saved up, forgetting that it would have some synthetic testosterone in it. He probably also experience flu-like symptoms from injecting the old blood into himself, which caused him to bomb on 16th stage. His nuts probably figured that his test levels were high enough and that the flu-like symptoms might be a sign of imminent death from infection, so they stopped producing test temporarily. his test levels would have remained around normal from the synthetic testosterone in the doped blood, but his epitestosterone numbers would have dropped to a level that triggered the failed doping test.

I have no evidence to back up any of that, but it's about the only thing that makes sense to me as to how this could have happened. I can't understand why anyone would be taking testosterone for a bike race. If 1CYPHER can provide the link for where he got Landis' training info, it might list the body weights he was at prior to the tour and during the tour. I'd be interested to see a breakdown of his bodyweight throughout his training and during the tour.

7/29/2006 7:44:46 PM

I'm impressed with your drug knowledge, but the what ifing is way off as you don't have much of a clue about cycling.

7/29/2006 8:40:57 PM

maybe you don't have a clue about cycling. just post the link to where you got your training logs.

7/29/2006 8:45:19 PM

Heres a good (though heavily biased) account
http://freefloydlandis.blogspot.com/

7/29/2006 10:13:10 PM

I want to believe the French lab is just out to sabbotage another American victory. Is the B sample tested by the same lab? If so, that's pretty suspect in the first place.

7/29/2006 11:36:48 PM

Quote :

"Seven-time Tour winner Lance Armstrong said all he knew about Landis' case was what has been reported. "But I will say this," Armstrong told The Associated Press in a phone interview Friday. "When Floyd was with us, there was never a problem. We never saw anything even remotely off, never had a reason to suspect anything. He left our team for a better offer. There was no suspicious behaviour, none. It's that simple. "Secondly, I can't help but be aware the lab that found this suspicious reading is the same one that was at the center of the 'L'Equipe affair." The French newspaper, L'Equipe, said samples taken from Armstrong during the 1999 Tour de France and then frozen tested positive for the blood-booster EPO. The International Cycling Union commissioned a report that later cleared Armstrong of the doping allegations. "When an independent investigator contacted the lab, they wouldn't answer the simplest of questions, wouldn't go into their testing ethics, who did the tests, etc., etc.," Armstrong said. "I don't personally have a ton of faith in that lab. I think they should lose their authorization and the report pretty much supports that.""

7/30/2006 12:31:55 PM

I don't understand why they don't just perform a more accurate test.

7/30/2006 4:18:55 PM

Because its hocus pocus dude. A spade is a spade. This lab is shitty.

7/30/2006 4:52:32 PM

don't blame the lab; the only thing the lab did wrong in the Armstrong case was to test a backup sample using an EPO test that didn't exist in 1999. they aren't falsifying results; they're just leaking the results to the media just like everyone else would.


Running more sophisticated testing on everyone would cost a small fortune. this isn't a NADIS 5 drug test we're talking about here. the testosterone/epitestosterone test alone costs somewhere around a thousand dollars to perform. to perform MSGC on a sample would probably run somewhere on the order of several thousand dollars per sample for each time it was run. Why do you expect a sanctioning world sports body to spends upwards of $20,000 per athlete in the tour to prevent doping when they can do so with 99% accuracy for $2,000? We don't even have innocence until proven guilty anymore in the US legal system, so why do you expect to see any different in the international sports world?

If the athlete wants to prove his innocence after the first failed test, then he can pay for the testing to do so. If the results come back clean, then the sports body should reimburse the athlete for the testing and clear his name. if he still comes back guilty of cheating, then the money for the additional testing would have been provided by the athlete who cheated in the first place.

7/30/2006 5:59:13 PM

Quote :

"Running more sophisticated testing on everyone would cost a small fortune."

No shit, but it's pennies to run it on the top 5 in the GC if the whole world is really worried about the state of the sport. It's small insurance.

Quote :

"Why do you expect a sanctioning world sports body to spends upwards of $20,000 per athlete in the tour to prevent doping when they can do so with 99% accuracy for $2,000?"

Sponsorship is mondo money, and as just mentioned, you only need to test the top couple, who gives a shit about the others.

Quote :

"We don't even have innocence until proven guilty anymore in the US legal system, so why do you expect to see any different in the international sports world?"

You shouldn't even bother with statements like these, you lose all that respect you just tried to garner from all googling knowledge you just aquired.

Quote :

"If the athlete wants to prove his innocence after the first failed test, then he can pay for the testing to do so. If the results come back clean, then the sports body should reimburse the athlete for the testing and clear his name. if he still comes back guilty of cheating, then the money for the additional testing would have been provided by the athlete who cheated in the first place."

Again, the money to nail the people that need to be nailed is pennies.

7/30/2006 6:22:57 PM

Other sports run more advanced tests, so the cost must not be that prohibitive.

7/30/2006 6:28:13 PM