I think you should get on an airline and just lay out a blueprint and draw a diagram for a makeshift flying explosive.

THEN PRAY....

8/19/2006 9:27:31 PM

Quote :

"YAY FOR ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE "

wow, you are such a good debater

i know, lets start calling each other names like in every thread in the soapbox when people have differing opinions.

Since you don't think the way I do, you must be stupid

8/19/2006 9:34:04 PM

Presenting your brother-in-law's opinion as if it has some sort of merit in a debate is stupid. It's anecdotal.

8/19/2006 9:35:21 PM

thanks, i'm stupid

you are so smart

in fact, you are probably smarter than everyone else in the soap box

sorry in a thread full of opinions i actually gave an example of a muslim that I personally know and how he felt about this situation and you can't seem to grasp that

so what if it's anecdotal

all you do is bitch essentially

8/19/2006 9:38:57 PM

I got some anecdotal evidence, if anybody's curri-us.

[Edited on August 19, 2006 at 9:41 PM. Reason : aaa]

8/19/2006 9:41:08 PM

well my muslim friend is not sympathetic to faith-based legal restrictions on flights. now we're equal.

8/19/2006 9:41:35 PM

okay,

then due to the relationship between the federal government and the bailouts provided by the federal government there should be no religion of any type allowed on flights within the US. Especially not someone praying out loud or conducting some physical ritual that indicates a religious practice

furthermore, you guys are assholes

8/19/2006 9:49:04 PM

^Who is you guys?

8/19/2006 9:51:24 PM

^^ Mussolini called.

8/19/2006 9:52:51 PM

everybody who posts in the soap box

^and why then aren't you complaining about not being able to pray in schools that receive federal funding

[Edited on August 19, 2006 at 9:57 PM. Reason : i am out]

8/19/2006 9:56:53 PM

because he suckles at the teat of a land that mandates prayer in schools that receive government funding.

8/19/2006 9:58:56 PM

Quote :

"^and why then aren't you complaining about not being able to pray in schools that receive federal funding"

Maybe because it will never affect me or any of my family [I am not American].

But you are right, one should stand up for justice no matter where, and without regard to whether it affects oneself or not.

So yes, I think people should be allowed to pray no matter which religion they belong to wherever they want, whenever they want, as long as they don't inconvenience others physically, i.e., block a path, etc.

8/19/2006 10:25:44 PM

Quote :

"^and why then aren't you complaining about not being able to pray in schools that receive federal funding"

Students can pray they mother fucking asses off. Don't be stupid.

8/19/2006 10:35:01 PM

Sorry but I have zero fucking respect for religion, Islam included.

If it came down to prayer being banned on flights altogether and a 2 dollar cost increase on my next flight because of this asshole getting a huge settlement, I'd go with the ban.

Banning all prayer doesn't make any sense any way. The next time somebody goes "THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELLS YOU" while beheading somebody or bombing a crowd of innocents, then sure. But come on, "Allahu Ackbar?" How the fuck would you know if this guy was praying, or psyching himself up for a terrorist act?

8/20/2006 12:55:29 AM

Quote :

"So should we make a law to stop Muslims from "offensively praying"?"

absolutely not, and nobody is suggesting that.

people are just saying that common sense should dictate and when and how you exercise totally legitimate rights, and that an equally legitimate reaction shouldn't surprise you if you tread on the border of sound judgement.

Quote :

"I'm gonna come out and say that I think 95 percent is a liberal estimate. I think there are a lot more militant Muslims out there than we like to consider."

yeah, 95% is purely a figure pulled out of the air, but my gut feeling is that the % of Muslims who are a legitimate threat is pretty small. There is probably a greater % that we might count as sympathetic to or even in agreement with the truly dangerous variety, but who aren't about to really do anything themselves.

it's kind of analogous to abortion clinic bombers, back when that was the "in" thing to do. For every individual who actually sacked up and shot an abortion doctor or blew up a clinic, there are a number of people who agreed with him or were at least of the "I ain't saying he should've KILLED him, but I understand[/Chris Rock]. Those people, however, aren't about to do it themselves any more than you or I are.

Quote :

"^and why then aren't you complaining about not being able to pray in schools that receive federal funding"

how many people actually want to ban prayer in schools? all i've ever heard is not wanting school-sponsored (or school organization-sponsored) prayer in schools.

8/20/2006 1:12:51 AM

Eh I dunno about this whole thing.

All I really care about here is the airline industry getting jacked up even more, and flights costing even more. I really don't give a fuck if I have to blindfold myself, spin 10 times, hop on the plane and shut the fuck up. I just want cheap airfare. If that means some religious fuck has to keep it to himself, then fine.

8/20/2006 1:16:55 AM

^,^^^ wow, a fascist philosopher and martial artist

Quote :

"kung fu, programming, wing chun, philosophy of science, philosophy of language, epistemology, history, kyudo, zen"

8/20/2006 1:25:28 AM

Quote :

" How the fuck would you know if this guy was praying, or psyching himself up for a terrorist act."

Because he was a DOCTOR who was coming from a medical conference with his colleagues.

Most of the people on the planet pray. A prayer by itself absolutely, 100% in no way warrants someone being kicked off a plane (unless like someone said earlier he was blocking the aisle or something like that). There's about 6.5 billion people in the world and about 1 BILLION of them are muslims. Are you gonna piss your pants when one of them prays?

On the list of behaviors of a terrorist, prayer is waaay at the bottom of the list, right above scratching your ass.

8/20/2006 2:02:53 AM

Quote :

"Because he was a DOCTOR who was coming from a medical conference with his colleagues."

that doesn't mean shit.

Quote :

"A prayer by itself absolutely, 100% in no way warrants someone being kicked off a plane (unless like someone said earlier he was blocking the aisle or something like that). There's about 6.5 billion people in the world and about 1 BILLION of them are muslims. Are you gonna piss your pants when one of them prays?"

that's true.

8/20/2006 2:04:32 AM

the guy made it be known that he was muslim. airports profile muslims and think all of them are terrorists. that's it. that's all. they're bigots. end of story.

8/20/2006 2:05:29 AM

Quote :

""Because he was a DOCTOR who was coming from a medical conference with his colleagues." that doesn't mean shit. "

Neither does a muslim praying.

8/20/2006 2:07:00 AM

^^ Lots of people are bigots. This is a case of bigotry becoming blatant stupidity.

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 2:07 AM. Reason : d]

8/20/2006 2:07:30 AM

Quote :

"Neither does a muslim praying."

I never argued otherwise.

(Re?)read my first post on this page, and maybe my post on page 1. I'm not arguing what you think I am.

Quote :

"airports profile muslims and think all of them are terrorists. that's it. that's all. they're bigots. end of story."

1. Dude, nobody thinks all Muslims are terrorists. You're being a fucking retard.

Furthermore, profiling is perfectly fine, and serves some utility. I mean, most of the terrorists who wish us harm are Muslims, so it makes sense for that to trigger at least a small flag.

Discriminating against Muslims is where you cross the line.

it's the same as the difference between prejudice and racism (or whatever -ism is the case). Prejudice is no big deal. Racism is bad.

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 2:18 AM. Reason : asdfsad]

8/20/2006 2:14:40 AM

Quote :

"I never argued otherwise. "

I never said you did. My comment was just in general.

8/20/2006 3:41:28 AM

Did you guys hear the flight recorders from Flight 93? Wanna know what they were mumbling to themseleves as they took the plane down?


Thats right, "allahu akbar"


I'll say it again - someone says that next to me on a plane, i'm gonna fuck his shit up.

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 8:37 AM. Reason : s]

8/20/2006 8:36:55 AM

Quote :

"^,^^^ wow, a fascist philosopher and martial artist "

Oh noes, you mean a philosopher that doesn't agree with you!? How could this ever come to pass!? Why don't you look up how many existentialists loved the healing gift of religion. It doesn't make me facist that I don't want some assholes jibbering "allahu ackbar" on a FUCKING PLANE. This is an issue of common fucking sense. It's not the regular Muslim's fault that Allahu Ackbar are the trademarked words of flying planes into buildings, blowing up a shitloads of innocents, and beheading civilians.

Everybody knows not all Muslims are terrorists, that's not the issue here. Maybe if planes weren't consistently used by Muslim millitants. Maybe. But since planes are basically missiles of Islam these days, I'd say no.

Quote :

"Most of the people on the planet pray. A prayer by itself absolutely, 100% in no way warrants someone being kicked off a plane (unless like someone said earlier he was blocking the aisle or something like that). There's about 6.5 billion people in the world and about 1 BILLION of them are muslims. Are you gonna piss your pants when one of them prays?"

No I'm not going to piss in my pants, but if I hear "allahu ackbar" on a plane, I'm going to assume the worst, just like the healing gift of Islam has taught me to do. Pissed off about that? Sorry. It's called common sense. It'd be like me belting the Soviet anthem during the Cuban Missile Crisis on a White House tour.

You can't yell "fire" in a fucking theater. You shouldn't be able to say "allahu ackbar" on a plane. Just like you can't say "bomb" or some other keyword. What the fuck are the airlines supposed to do? Ignore the warning signs until some shit happens? You people will be the first to cry and whine that they did nothing when it became apparent that Achmed Al'Fuckpants was muttering prayers to himself before hijacking the airplane. "They ignored the warning signs! durrr".

Pray on the fucking ground.

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 9:33 AM. Reason : .]

8/20/2006 9:27:31 AM

w00t hallelujah brother, amen!

8/20/2006 9:51:40 AM

:-/

8/20/2006 10:04:30 AM

allahu ackbar!!111

8/20/2006 10:21:50 AM

Quote :

" "allahu ackbar" on a plane"

They could make a movie.

8/20/2006 10:31:42 AM

They already did -- United 93

8/20/2006 10:33:07 AM

^ gg

8/20/2006 10:38:29 AM

Turns out going to the can isn't a solution either:
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=EF6FE6E1-930D-46E8-ABA3-E3F9E84462FE

8/20/2006 11:28:34 AM

Quote :

"Students can pray they mother fucking asses off. Don't be stupid."

They can't be disruptive about it, which is to say, they can't really be audible (at least during class time), and I fail to see how expecting silent prayer from students is all that terribly more acceptable than expecting it from an unfortunate Muslim on a plane.

8/20/2006 12:25:31 PM

You fail to see the differnece between not being disruptive while a teacher is talking and saying a prayer to yourself while an airplane is loading?

8/20/2006 12:34:45 PM

Quote :

"common sense should dictate and when and how you exercise totally legitimate rights, and that an equally legitimate reaction shouldn't surprise you if you tread on the border of sound judgement."

8/20/2006 12:37:02 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "bgmims: Was he just mumbling to himself, or was he rolling out a carpet in the aisles and screaming at the top of his lungs?" You really think that's what he was doing?"

Bridget, I don't know what he was doing, but I do know that some sects (I don't know the proper term there) of Islam feel that you cannot do your prayers quietly. I don't know them personally, but I think they want you to do it loud enough that others can hear to prove you aren't ashamed of your faith. Like OEP verified, some actually do roll out the carpet in the aisle, although he said he'd only seen it done silently.

I know you have to respect people's religious freedoms (unless they're Christian, of course) but if someone takes up the aisle of the airplane to roll a carpet out and pray for 15 minutes or so, that can be seen as an unacceptable inconvenience for all the others who can't get to the bathroom, or be served a drink, etc. Even still, throwing him off the plane is the wrong move, but it does make a difference in the story.

8/20/2006 12:37:59 PM

I'm a muslim. I've prayed on a plane before. It's really not that hard and you can do it pretty discretely.

Facts:
1. You don't HAVE to make yourself audible if you are praying alone. It's perfectly acceptable to recite the words in your mind.
2. Muslims can't pray in bathrooms
3. A prayer probably takes 5 minutes at the most. And you can pray sitting down.
4. It's considered acceptable to pray in whichever direction the plane is flying, even if it isn't facing Mecca.

I personally would NOT want to gather attention to myself by speaking loudly while making "strange" movements in my seat. I think this guy should have been more aware of how people might react to him.

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 12:43 PM. Reason : ]

8/20/2006 12:43:09 PM

sir CALM DOWN. do not be muslim AND capitalize words in this thread or we'll have to lock the thread and suspend you. this is your first and only warning.

8/20/2006 1:10:31 PM

Sounds like Dr. Ahmed Farooq is a bit of an ATTENTION WHORE

8/20/2006 1:17:04 PM

GrumpyGOP already won this thing in one respect yesterpage, and Specter's point butresses the case in many respects.

But, I do have to say that while I agree with what both said, I still can't help but feel like Farooq's solidly justified in suing UA. While it'd be reasonable and prudent for a Muslim on an airplane to think he ought to alert the crew to his intentions due to the heightened fears of society around him, I can't help but thing it's expecting a great deal too much--an unconstitutional amount if you will--of average Muslims who've been reciting evening prayers according to customs they haven't had to justify to anyone until very recently, for the duration of their entire lives, to suddenly remember to do so every time they are in public, or on an airplane, or risk being openly treated like terrorists

That is precisely what the man's case says it is: institutionalized discrimination. And it's 100% unconstitutional, regardless of how it's viewed.

It's a very tough situation, as was already said. And finding the balance between our most fundamental American values and securing our safety doesn't produce a pretty conflict; as anyone can see by turning on the news.

But it's also not a short one. A long series of these types of battles are precisely what determine how we ultimately operate as a society. I look forward to following this man's case very closely.

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 1:42 PM. Reason : verbage]

8/20/2006 1:41:50 PM

the plane is not a public space

let me repeat that, THE PLANE IS NOT A PUBLIC SPACE

Thank you, that is all. A private restaurant could kick someone out if they started allahu-akbarring all over the floor. So can a private airline.

/thread

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 2:17 PM. Reason : s]

8/20/2006 2:16:47 PM

Sounds like...

Quote :

"I'm a muslim. I've prayed on a plane before. It's really not that hard and you can do it pretty discretely. Facts: 1. You don't HAVE to make yourself audible if you are praying alone. It's perfectly acceptable to recite the words in your mind. 2. Muslims can't pray in bathrooms 3. A prayer probably takes 5 minutes at the most. And you can pray sitting down. 4. It's considered acceptable to pray in whichever direction the plane is flying, even if it isn't facing Mecca. I personally would NOT want to gather attention to myself by speaking loudly while making "strange" movements in my seat. I think this guy should have been more aware of how people might react to him. "

... has his head screwed on straight. This is the right approach to take -- it's common sensical.

Quote :

"sir CALM DOWN. do not be muslim AND capitalize words in this thread or we'll have to lock the thread and suspend you. this is your first and only warning."

Nobody's saying this except for you.

While I agree that nobody should hinder the right to worship whatever and practice whatever buttheaded religion you want, some concessions have to be made in the name of common sense when it comes to these things. Anybody who seriously wants UA to get its "ass sued off" is a fucking idiot here. Who wants the price of air travel to go up even more? The industry is doing bad enough without some fucking douchebag trying to score some undeserved dough because he refused to exercise some common sense. In fact, invoking the response you wanted and then suing for cash is just a different form of terrorizing the shit out of an industry.

When it boils down to it, there's no real reason this guy did what he did. He should have waited, alerted the staff and those around him, or just done it silently. Is it his fault people use "Allahu Ackbar" as the rallying cry for sickening, depraved, terrorist fuckplankery? No, it certainly isn't, but it is his fault for putting himself in a situation to be misunderstood. What the hell is UA supposed to do? If they get suspicious activity reported, then they have to fucking respond. They had one of their planes ran into a fucking building by people chanting "Allahu Ackbar", you expect them to pull out tarot cards on the flight to divine whether its a terrorist threat or not now?

8/20/2006 2:17:47 PM

THE PLANE IS NOT A PUBLIC SPACE

UNITED AIRLINES IS A PRIVATE COMPANY

THE PLANE IS PRIVATE PROPERTY

IF THEY DETERMINE THAT HIS ACTIONS ARE DISRUPTIVE

BYE BYE ALLAH BOY

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 2:19 PM. Reason : s]

8/20/2006 2:18:37 PM

^^ i dont mix my jokes and real responses to avoid confusion. i wasnt trying to say anything with that post.

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 2:24 PM. Reason : well except to say that everyone's afraid of muslims, which is somewhat true and reinforces his poin]

8/20/2006 2:23:56 PM

lol

8/20/2006 2:38:03 PM

Quote :

"I hope he loses he should be aware that people are on edge and to start praying to Allah on a plane is going to inflame peoples fears for a future doctor, he sure is a dumbass "

Quote :

"I'm a muslim. I've prayed on a plane before. It's really not that hard and you can do it pretty discretely. Facts: 1. You don't HAVE to make yourself audible if you are praying alone. It's perfectly acceptable to recite the words in your mind. 2. Muslims can't pray in bathrooms 3. A prayer probably takes 5 minutes at the most. And you can pray sitting down. 4. It's considered acceptable to pray in whichever direction the plane is flying, even if it isn't facing Mecca. I personally would NOT want to gather attention to myself by speaking loudly while making "strange" movements in my seat. I think this guy should have been more aware of how people might react to him. [Edited on August 20, 2006 at 12:43 PM. Reason : ]"

see, this guy can utilize his religious rights and common sense at the same time!

8/20/2006 3:32:48 PM

Everybody is acting all confused and saying this is a tough situation.

BULLSHIT

The man was fucking praying. And he was kicked off a flight for it.

That shit simply ain't right. And we all know it.




And I'm gonna take this a step further and say that the terrorists have won here (in the GWB sense).

Our freedom of religion, one of those freedoms that the terrorists hate so much...we just sacrificed it to the terrorists by kicking this man off the plane. And every single one of you are doing the same if you agree with his removal or get all wishy-washy about it.

May we never make this mistake again.

[Edited on August 20, 2006 at 4:11 PM. Reason : sss]

8/20/2006 4:04:13 PM

Well they are compelled to take every threat seriously. When you start putting flight attendents in charge of investigating the situation problems are going to happen

8/20/2006 4:14:07 PM

Quote :

"The man was fucking praying. And he was kicked off a flight for it. That shit simply ain't right. And we all know it."

It ain't right, but it's needed. Sorry. It's an unintended consequence but certainly caused by the radical fringes of Islam.

Quote :

"Our freedom of religion, one of those freedoms that the terrorists hate so much...we just sacrificed it to the terrorists by kicking this man off the plane. And every single one of you are doing the same if you agree with his removal or get all wishy-washy about it."

Oh bullshit, Bridget. The man could have prayed silently. The fact of the matter is, he used a fucking flagged phrase that has been known to be cause for alarm. He could have even told everybody around him what he was doing, if he was actually praying outloud to show he wasn't embarassed by his faith. He could have done just about everything except what he did.

Sometimes you have to curtail a freedom to be practical. What if my religion dictates that I must sit atop an ivory altar at 5PM as I pray? Does that mean, if I have a flight that bridges 5PM, that I should be allowed to perform this ritual on the plane? Should pagans be able to sacrifice animals on the plane? Come fucking on. If Muslims didn't shit on their own religion there'd be no cause for worry at "Allahu Ackbar". However, as long as radical Islam is fused with the type of terrorism that crashes planes in the first place, "Allahu Ackbar" shouldn't be said on the plane unless everybody's forewarned.

That said, there's a huge difference between a family doing this and a young man muttering it to himself without notifying anybody first. There's no crisis of freedom of religion here, dig your head out of your ass.

8/20/2006 4:40:12 PM