did i say no conservatives are. no, i didnt, stop putting words in my mouth.

it is a stated agenda item by the liberals to create quotas to help dig minorities out of their "inferiority". by creating such quotas, liberals acknowledge that minorities are inferior and in need of special help. goldwater saw this, reagan saw it, and thankfully the current administration sees this as well.

9/10/2006 7:23:50 PM

Quote :

"it is a stated agenda item by the liberals to create quotas to help dig minorities out of their "inferiority". by creating such quotas, liberals acknowledge that minorities are inferior and in need of special help."

So youre saying that centuries of slavery and segregation, treating one race like its degenerate has had no effect.

You would say that white people would have had not been held back had they been enslaved? Are you insane. God youre a fucking bigot.

Are black people made of teflon? You can just tear them from their land, enslave and torture and segregate them and have them jump onto the same social and cultural footing as the people that enslaved them? You just confirmed to everyone here that youre completely racist if you expect this.



[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 7:30 PM. Reason : ]

9/10/2006 7:27:16 PM

if i am a racist, then reagan was a racist, and he certainly was not.

youre a complete fool if you cant grasp this concept. affirmative action should be forgotten forever.

[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 7:31 PM. Reason : ,]

9/10/2006 7:30:57 PM

Please don't rape Modus Tollens.

9/10/2006 7:31:48 PM

denying the consequent

you sir are a master of logic

[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 7:33 PM. Reason : ^^ yes we know you want to continue to keep black people down]

9/10/2006 7:33:08 PM

It's a central tenet of our society that everyone has an equal oppurtunity to succeed, even if many or most fail. We as a country seem to be more than willing to accept the highly disparate wealth in our country as long as people have at least a chance to make something of themselves. Thats the American dream.

9/10/2006 7:33:49 PM

Quote :

"It's a central tenet of our society that everyone has an equal oppurtunity to succeed,"

and since its a fact that black people have fewer oppurtunities becuase of their socio-economic situation (caused by history), to insure everyone that they are on an even field, they will need temporary help.

9/10/2006 7:35:32 PM

temporary??

you guys are pathetic...

way the change the subject josh...as usual...you have no argument related to the thread or to the points that i made...good work

....continue..

9/10/2006 7:36:48 PM

YES, affirmitive action is meant to be temporary.

temporary. do you know what that word means?

9/10/2006 7:37:50 PM

i do indeed....do you??

9/10/2006 7:41:27 PM

are you sure? you seem confused,

9/10/2006 7:41:56 PM

nope...i got it down...im just not sure you do

9/10/2006 7:43:32 PM

There is a difference though between equality of oppurtunity and equality outcome.

One of the things that infuriates me about affirimitive action is that many people look as it as a birthright now, and they expect the government to give them a free education and a high paying job. I think affirmative action's intended purposes have been met.

9/10/2006 7:46:40 PM

Quote :

"many people look as it as a birthright now, and they expect the government to give them a free education and a high paying job."

Ive never met one of these such people.

9/10/2006 8:10:45 PM

"money for jobs, not for war"

9/10/2006 8:24:10 PM

Quote :

"YES, affirmitive action is meant to be temporary."

I'm curious because no one has ever given me an honest answer: At what time or by what metric can affirmative action be declared done with?

9/10/2006 8:36:41 PM

Quote :

"Ive never met one of these such people."

And since you are in college, what experience do you have? You have basically been a student your whole life. You aren't going to find affirmative action to be a factor in low paying menial jobs like the ones students work while in school.

9/10/2006 8:41:11 PM

Quote :

"I'm curious because no one has ever given me an honest answer: At what time or by what metric can affirmative action be declared done with?"

When the achievement gap comes close to something resembling equality.

It's been 42 years since the Civil Rights Act. That's less than two generations. Do you expect hundreds of years of systematic opporession to be undone by 1.5 generations worth of mild affirmative action?

9/10/2006 9:43:17 PM

Quote :

"When the achievement gap comes close to something resembling equality."

Define achievement gap.

9/10/2006 9:44:27 PM

there needs to be a greater effort to give inner-city kids access to better schools. unfortunately, the government monopoly on education keeps most of them in the ghetto, in inept public schools.

9/10/2006 9:46:44 PM

because they can afford expensive private schools

and because there is a monopoly on education, so private schools don't exist

9/10/2006 10:23:11 PM

there needs to be more competition, ive said that many a time.

it is the only way to improve a product. you have no idea what youre talking about here.

9/10/2006 11:00:14 PM

Quote :

"And since you are in college, what experience do you have? "

enough to know this is not true:

Quote :

"many people look as it as a birthright now, and they expect the government to give them a free education and a high paying job"

just about nobody expects the government to give them a free education and high paying job once they learn what american/capitalism means.

9/10/2006 11:02:57 PM

Im a PhD student and I have studied the economics

low income families are not going to spend 70-80% or more of their yearly income to send their kids to private schools

they can't afford half that even if you give them vouchers

9/10/2006 11:04:14 PM

if you open up the market and allow schools to compete, the product will improve. vouchers will, in fact, help those who need and deserve them. most importantly, the socialist and teacher union control of our school system has killed it, and its time to drop this farce.

9/10/2006 11:08:07 PM

I'll let you in on a secret:

The only people who want school vouchers are people who can afford to pay the difference between the vouchers and the remainder of the cost of a private school. If a private school is $13k a year and you get a $3k a year voucher, that still leaves a difference of $10k a year. The school voucher program is nothing but academic government cheese, giving money to upper middle class and rich parents to send their kids to expensive schools to private schools too costly for most minorities.

It is not a solution to help disadvantaged students in inner cities.

[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 11:15 PM. Reason : .]

9/10/2006 11:14:25 PM

Quote :

"if you open up the market and allow schools to compete, the product will improve."

Why? Youll still have the same teachers.

9/10/2006 11:19:43 PM

but...but...vernon robinson says so!

my biggest objection deals with the social implications and the effects that school choice will have on them. nothing in the market will solve the the new "segregation" that will occur. rich kids dont want to go to school w/ poor kids, and its impossible to assue any kid of diversity by simply opening up all schools to anyone. people will simply still resegregate based on neighborhoods and comfort zones. schools right now provide vital chances for people to interact w/ all types of people, as they will in future jobs.

solution to the problem? improve vocational ed. for starters, stop making it look like "the place they send all the dumb kids"

wait...

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE DISCUSSING THIS HERE? BACK TO 9/11...

there's a 9/11 memorial in the brickyard right now...



[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 11:22 PM. Reason : .]

9/10/2006 11:21:39 PM

Unlike a Mercedes, a steak dinner or a vacation house.... education is a fundamental core of society

we cannot allow education to lapse into a "high as the market will bear" capitalist model

we have already seen what has happened with health care as 1/4 of all Americans cannot afford it

9/10/2006 11:28:39 PM

We already have schools competing

Charter schools are fully independent schools operating with state and federal money. They have to compete to get every one of their students, and if they don't perform, they don't get any students and they're shut down.

(A list of all the charter schools in NC: http://www.ncpublicschools.org/charterschools/schools/ )

Magnet schools operate under county systems, but again, all students must voluntarily enroll, and failure means you're shut down.

(A list of all the magnet schools in NC: http://www.publicschoolreview.com/state_magnets/stateid/NC)

Even with traditional schools, if the school is failing, parents can take their kid out and place them elsewhere without any red tape. If they consistently fail (Carter in Winston, Riverside in Durham, some others around the area) then they're shut down and every single employee in the school is fired.

Private schools are better because of parents and money. That's it. There's no magic capitalist fairy dust being sprinkled on private schools every semester. I'd love to see them operate with public school kids on a public school budget.



[Edited on September 10, 2006 at 11:48 PM. Reason : .]

9/10/2006 11:39:45 PM

Quote :

"go ask anyone the importance of December 7th. You'll get blank stares"

OH I'M SORRY WE CHOOSE TO NAME ONE ATTACK AFTER THE NAME OF THE PLACE THAT WAS ATTACKED AND WE CHOOSE TO NAME ANOTHER ATTACK AFTER THE DATE OF THE ATTACK

DOWN WITH AMERICA

[Edited on September 11, 2006 at 12:19 AM. Reason : ]

9/11/2006 12:19:30 AM

nutsmackr knows how to interpret the constitution better than The Supreme Court apparently

9/11/2006 12:29:45 AM

so much for the alamo

9/11/2006 12:33:39 AM

I hear its got a big basement, perfect for storing bicycles

9/11/2006 1:08:44 AM

1) I see more media telling people that they should be afraid than I actually see people behaving as if they were afraid.

2) I haven't had to alter my lifestyle in any measurable amount to compensate for all of these civil liberties that have been taken away from me since 09/11/01. Unless less civil liberties have translated into higher gas prices

3) Re. the bicycle helmet thing. I have a favorite nut job conspiracy theory to go along with that one. The people that sell bicycle helmets want to make more money. They lobby the law makers and poof. A law that suddenly increases demand comes into being.

Look at the evolution of car seat laws. Now you have to be what? 4'9" or 125 lbs. or some crazy crap. Now you have to buy a car seat every few years almost up until your kid is driving on their own (exaggeration, buy hey). The things even have expiration dates (printed on the underside) so if you have several kids or want to give one you no longer need to someone else chances are you won't be able to. Some of it is safety but I think most of it is the $texas.

9/11/2006 9:01:16 AM

I'm baffled at the rebroadcasts. Transparent sensationalism/masochism on the part of our media.

Two thumbs WAY down.

9/11/2006 9:10:35 AM

Funny that you say we have forgotten 12/7, when I was just checking my calendar and it has 12/7 listed as "Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day"

But I guess that's simply been forgotten. When as much time has passed since Pearl Harbor for 9/11, I think it'll be very similar. We'll see "Terrorist Attacks Remembrance Day" and we'll all tell our grandchildren about where we were when it happened.

I don't think we have or will forget either date, we'll simply let them become history the way they are meant to be: VERY important days in history that had far-reaching consequences.

9/11/2006 9:49:38 AM

i think some people are scared to remember 9/11

9/11/2006 9:58:45 AM

like Pearl Harbor...

9/11/2006 10:08:37 AM

hey Gamecat, where were you during Pearl Harbor?

hey nutsmackr, where were you during Pearl Harbor?

Does common sense tell either of you that one of the differences in 9/11 and 12/7 is that we were actually alive to see 9/11?

9/11/2006 10:19:45 AM

...wtf. No, man. That had never occurred to me. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the reason nutsmackr made this thread either...

9/11/2006 10:42:07 AM

so i should remember Pearl Harbor, which happened before my parents were born, more than something I myself saw live just 5 years ago and remember vividly? I should remember Pearl Harbor, which I learned about from grandparents and teachers, moreso than something that happened this century that I witnessed myself?

lol @ nutsmackr making a thread for any reason other than bitching about how terrorism isnt a threat!

9/11/2006 10:44:15 AM

i agree with the premise of the thread to some extent...i saw a headline on a news show today that said "Sept 11--The Day America Changed". Man, that pissed me off.

However, TreeTwista is right in that Dec 7 was hardly forgotten just a few years after it happened...just ask Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki.

9/11/2006 10:47:40 AM

No. I think it's more a commentary on generational amnesia, which you're adamantly defending.

9/11/2006 10:47:45 AM

no, i think its more common sense that something you witness first hand a few years ago is more vivid than something that happened ~60 years ago

Quote :

"go ask anyone the importance of December 7th. You'll get blank stares"

ask someone who's 70+ years old

and if you value freedom as much as you say you do I'm sure you are just as aware of every one of these dates http://www.sparknotes.com/history/american/constitution/htimeline.html

9/11/2006 10:49:56 AM

12/7 should be a far more important date in the collective conciousness of America than 9/11

9/11/2006 10:51:29 AM

Quote :

"hey nutsmackr, where were you during Pearl Harbor? Does common sense tell either of you that one of the differences in 9/11 and 12/7 is that we were actually alive to see 9/11? "

9/11/2006 10:52:04 AM

that post is as meaningless now as when you first made it.

9/11/2006 10:53:30 AM

WTF. Who said anything about being surprised that we remember 9/11 more vividly?

I think nutsmackr was pretty clear in his first post that we've forgotten this:

Quote :

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

9/11/2006 10:53:48 AM

fear != being aware terrorism is a threat

9/11/2006 10:54:46 AM