^ agreed with everything, wow you took all those words outta my mouth

10/23/2006 12:45:18 PM

Quote :

"it could happen..."

That really doesn't explain why he had a similar smudge on the exact same spot during other games. Maybe you could explain it away by saying that part of his 'routine' lends itself to getting dirt on that particular spot on his hand but then you would fully expect the smudge to reappear at some later point during the game (or once per inning considering the smudge was present in the 1st).

[Edited on October 23, 2006 at 12:59 PM. Reason : -]

10/23/2006 12:58:03 PM

^ good point


Then maybe it has something to do with his pregame rituals, and that's why it didn't come back.

10/23/2006 12:59:57 PM

Quote :

"Also, any of you that have played baseball know that you sweat and get dirt on you and it becomes slick looking like that"

I'm not defending anything here, but I find it hard to believe he was "sweating" when it was 33 degrees without the windchill.

10/23/2006 1:17:02 PM

It was probably gravy left over from the delicious Kenny Rogers chicken dinner with a side of corn and mashed potaotes

10/23/2006 1:27:04 PM

^ I think I'll have that for dinner tonight

10/23/2006 2:12:25 PM

I bet he gets rocked in Game 6.

10/23/2006 2:51:17 PM

Don't count on it.

10/23/2006 4:25:53 PM

heard some audio clips of this on the Dan Patrick Show...Rogers tried to make it sound like he himself noticed the 'dirt' and went to wash it off and that no umpire or anybody mentioned it, but he himself decided he had dirt on his hand and to wash it off...lol

10/23/2006 4:29:43 PM

CRITICS?

WHAT CRITICS?

10/23/2006 4:30:40 PM

THE DIRT IS WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS!!!!!

10/23/2006 4:34:29 PM

why are people surprised when stuff like this happens in baseball, it is like a game based on cheating and sign stealing etc. sosa's corked bat i thought was 10 times worse and nobody even cares about that anymore. this type of crap has been going on in baseball forever, if people will inject themselves with steroids and growth hormone and get away with it then why not put some pine tar on your hand.

10/23/2006 4:45:52 PM

10/23/2006 5:26:07 PM

what i dont get is batters can use pine tar to get better grip on the bat, so why cant pitchers use pine tar to get better grip on the ball?

10/23/2006 5:38:56 PM

a couple of things that were noted on the postgame sportscenter last night.

1) the umpire did notice it (or was alerted) after the 1st inning. there was some video with a conference between Rogers and the home plate umpire during the middle of the first. but he only asked Rogers what the substance was and did not "inspect". since the inspection didn't occur, NOTHING can happen to Rogers. If it had been found to be illegal then he would have been ejected. However, the umpire screwed the pooch on this one by not doing an inspection.

2) LaRousa made a mistake by not issuing a protest at the time (maybe he didn't know). Now if he says anything bad about Rogers it looks like sour grapes, since he still 2 hit them. However, the 2 hitter has NO SUBSTANCE in whether Rogers had anything illegal on his hands.

[Edited on October 23, 2006 at 6:01 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2006 6:00:29 PM

Fire him in the middle of the World Series

10/23/2006 6:36:04 PM

WHO

FUCKING

CARES


WHO

FUCKING

CARES

10/23/2006 7:10:44 PM

Quote :

"what i dont get is batters can use pine tar to get better grip on the bat, so why cant pitchers use pine tar to get better grip on the ball?"

10/23/2006 7:31:09 PM

pinetar on the handle of a bat doesn't make the ball go farther or harder.

pinetar on the hand of a pitcher would be more similar to corking a bat.

10/23/2006 7:47:10 PM

Quote :

"SI.com's Jon Heyman talked to a bullpen coach about Kenny Rogers, foreign substances and what likely went on Sunday night in Rogers' 3-1 Game 2 World Series victory. For the record, Rogers' story is that the noticeable mark on the palm of his left hand that was picked up by FOX was a "clump of dirt," and Major League Baseball isn't pursuing the matter further. But here's what one bullpen coach said about it: "It was pine tar. It couldn't be anything else. Pitchers use pine tar, shaving cream and suntan lotion. Pitchers use them to help them grip the ball and make the ball move more. Bullpen guys sometimes keep suntan lotion in the ball bags. It's not for a tan. Pine tar works the best. It's been around the longest. But lately, more and more guys are using shaving cream and suntan lotion. There's no chance to be caught with shaving cream or suntan lotion. "I don't know Kenny Rogers, but I'm guessing he had to use pine tar because it was so cold. He probably usually uses shaving cream or suntan lotion because they blend in. A lot of guys use shaving cream or suntan lotion, or both, because there's no way you could detect them. But it was so cold in Detroit. You need moisture or sweat to make the shaving cream or suntan lotion work, so it was probably too cold to use shaving cream or suntan lotion. "Pine tar, which has been around forever, has a cakiness to it, and it works in the cold. A lot of guys use pine tar, too, but I'm guessing Rogers doesn't use it too much because he didn't know how to hide it. With suntan lotion or shaving cream, you can put it anywhere because it blends in. You see David Wells wiping his forearms after every pitch. That's either suntan lotion or shaving cream he's applying to his hand. "Pine tar is the best, but you have to be careful with it because it's detectable. There are pine tar rags. But usually the pitchers keep the pine tar on their glove. They put it either deep in the pocket or the heel of the glove or inside the glove. Then when they take the glove off, with your index finger, middle finger or thumb, they get the pine tar. "I am guessing Rogers didn't really know how to use pine tar, because he put too much on. It probably spread from his glove to the palm of his hand. "You have to try to be inconspicuous about it. He probably put the pine tar on the glove but it started to leak and build up on his hand. There was nothing he could do about it. It started to cake up too much. Pine tar also makes a stain on the ball. "Guys have to reapply pine tar every inning. They wipe it off their fingers with alcohol between innings. Then they reapply it the next inning. "Pitchers usually hide the pine tar on their glove but also may put it on the back of their pant leg or put it on a pad in their back pocket. If they do that, they can slip their middle finger into their back pocket to apply it. "The pine tar blends in nicely with the glove if it's the right color. I'd check which gloves he was using which inning. You just get it in your hand and rub it up. The pine tar allows the index finger and thumb to apply more pressure on the ball. With Rogers and his curveball, he needs more pressure on his thumb. It also helps the ball move a little extra. If the ball is fractionally heavier on one side, it will move more. "But the predominant reason to use the pine tar is for the grip and to apply the necessary pressure to throw your pitches. The ball was coming out of his hand pretty good. It's good for the splitter, the cutter, the slider and the curveball. "Rogers isn't a very hard thrower. He depends on movement. It can even help with the changeup. The hard thing about throwing a splitter is controlling it. If you apply pine tar to the middle finger and index finger it allows you to grip it better and gain more control. But pine tar is very visible. That's why you have to be careful. A lot of times you have to wipe it off between innings with alcohol. It comes right off with alcohol. "He definitely was using pine tar. It can cake with pine tar and rosin. Maybe after the second inning, he went back to the shaving cream and added moisture. I'd say he was either hiding it better or he went back to the shaving cream or suntan lotion. "Some guys use a combination of all three -- pine tar, shaving cream and suntan lotion -- or you could use one or two. They use the sports suntan lotion so they don't accidentally irritate their eyes. "I bet Tony La Russa's pitchers are mad at him for saying anything, because a lot of guys do it, and I'd be surprise if there's a whole staff of guys who don't do it. In fact, I'd say a majority of guys use one of the three -- shaving cream, suntan lotion or pine tar. They can't like him ratting out the other team when everyone does it. Maybe he had to say something because it's the World Series, it's on TV and he probably has to answer to his owner. "But you'll notice he didn't continue to talk about it, and he instructed his guys not to talk about it. They probably have no interest in catching Rogers because if they do then the umpire is looking at everyone.''"

10/23/2006 8:49:16 PM

Quote :

"what i dont get is batters can use pine tar to get better grip on the bat, so why cant pitchers use pine tar to get better grip on the ball?"

Grip on the baseball can make a huge difference in the velocity AND movement.


If you look at an NCAA regulation baseball, it has huge seams that are very raised off the surface of the ball. This allows pitchers to put more movement on the baseball to gain an advantage because their arms are weaker.

In the pro's, the seams are barely raised at all and it can make a huge difference depending on hand size and what pitch you're throwing. Its much more difficult to get movement on a baseball with very little grip.

Pine tar would serve the same purpose as raised seams. The seams are lower in the pro's for a reason...they're the best pitchers in the world and shouldnt need help.

10/23/2006 9:01:57 PM

am i the only person who absolutely could not possibly care less about things like this?

10/23/2006 9:41:07 PM

Quote :

""

10/23/2006 9:41:34 PM

^^ naw, I don't really care

his performance was about the same after he washed it off.

O well, we need something other than TO to talk about.

10/23/2006 9:45:56 PM

threads like these remind me why I don't watch baseball

10/23/2006 9:51:18 PM

If you aren't not cheating, you aren't trying

10/23/2006 9:52:28 PM

^ rethink?

10/23/2006 9:54:20 PM

You don't have to post in the thread if you don't give a shit about baseball. I don't give a shit about hockey, golf, or the NBA so I don't read the threads.


Baseball is dull to dull minds.

10/23/2006 9:58:05 PM

Quote :

" sour grapes or not, Kenny is a motherfucker and I hope he flies into a highrise apartment building "

i read that and laughed really hard

10/23/2006 10:36:25 PM

Quote :

"his performance was about the same after he washed it off."

yeah, b/c he found somewhere else to put it...or found another substance to use

10/24/2006 1:41:15 AM

Quote :

"am i the only person who absolutely could not possibly care less about things like this?"

You obviously care enough to post at least twice in this thread

10/24/2006 7:28:07 AM

Quote :

"what i dont get is batters can use pine tar to get better grip on the bat, so why cant pitchers use pine tar to get better grip on the ball?"

10/24/2006 7:35:58 AM