Quote :

"i believe it started when we began fighting wars which did very little to actually protect our country and instead began fighting wars in the pursuit of the illusion of safety. "

Quote :

"i believe it started when we began fighting wars which did very little to actually protect our country and instead began fighting wars in the pursuit of the illusion of safety. "

Quote :

"i believe it started when we began fighting wars which did very little to actually protect our country and instead began fighting wars in the pursuit of the illusion of safety. "

10/31/2006 5:35:37 PM

Is there anyone who
Ever remembers changing there mind from
The paint on a sign?
Is there anyone who really recalls
Ever breaking rank at all
For something someone yelled real loud one time

Everyone believes
In how they think it ought to be
Everyone believes
And they're not going easily

Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword
Like punching under water
You never can hit who you're trying for

Some need the exhibition
And some have to know they tried
It's the chemical weapon
For the war that's raging on inside

Everyone believes
From emptiness to everything
Everyone believes
And no ones going quietly

We're never gonna win the world
We're never gonna stop the war
We're never gonna beat this
If belief is what we're fighting for

What puts a hundred thousand children in the sand
Belief can
Belief can
What puts the folded flag inside his mother's hand
Belief can
Belief can

10/31/2006 5:44:18 PM

Quote :

"i believe it started when we began fighting wars which did very little to actually protect our country and instead began fighting wars in the pursuit of the illusion of safety. "

I guess terrorist networks around the globe are an "illusion" now? I guess Saddam's massacre of his own people and his invasion of his neighbors was an "illusion" now? I guess international communism, which crushed millions under its huge grasp and weight for decades was an illusion?

ask how much of an "illusion" it was when the walls fell and the people were liberated.

10/31/2006 5:57:44 PM

and now we have to talk about how iraq isnt making us safer, this is so old

10/31/2006 6:17:33 PM

well, we already got the victimizations started

10/31/2006 6:29:18 PM

who the hell wants to go to Afghanstan(sp) or Iraq and get shot at after college for no real reason(other than oil and them damn terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrorist) Neither one of them will we ever win....and most likely after a another thousand or so dead troops, we will withdrawal and let it go to shit.....

10/31/2006 6:29:35 PM

Quote :

"As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

10/31/2006 6:51:19 PM

If you don't get a college degree, the military is not a bad choice.


jesus christ, this shit is front page yahoo news. The white house is spending its political capital well.

[Edited on October 31, 2006 at 7:14 PM. Reason : sdf]

10/31/2006 7:06:08 PM

Quote :

"I guess terrorist networks around the globe are an "illusion" now?"

NATO forces are being killed in Afganistan while we seem to have forgotten about it. The terrorist threat is infact very real. Fighting it at home and in relevant countries is protecting us but fighting it in irrelavent countries...Iraq....is not. But the fact that terrorist groups are not loyal to one country removes the idea of attacking countries entirely.

Quote :

" I guess Saddam's massacre of his own people and his invasion of his neighbors was an "illusion" now?"

We dealt with him when he invated his neighbors but we seemed to forget about him massacring his own people for 18 years before it became a problem. The muslims in Darfur are killings thousands of people....which is very very real.

Quote :

" I guess international communism, which crushed millions under its huge grasp and weight for decades was an illusion?"

Domino effect? maybe if we layed off appointing oppressive regimes to poor third world countries.

Quote :

"ask how much of an "illusion" it was when the walls fell and the people were liberated."

Its no illusion when people are liberated. Forced liberation can be dangerous.

10/31/2006 7:30:03 PM

Quote :

"While Kerry is obviously an idiot, and I in no way support him, this statement was obviously towards Bush and being "stuck in (a war in) Iraq." "

This is an indefensible position. Unless he meant to use entirely different words from what he used, there is no way he meant that. He certainly wasn't implying that if they studied hard they would all be president, he said they would do well, indicating that they would get good jobs.

I think this whole thing will get overblown, but there is no way in hell those words were meant to refer to Bush rather than our troops. That is total CYA that even your most retarded left-wingers shouldn't buy.

10/31/2006 7:55:47 PM

^ agreed

I think it is nuts that all of you are defending kerry

if a republican said the same thing you and the liberal media would eat them alive

10/31/2006 8:14:34 PM

I'm just saying that I can see how he could have meant Bush out of that statement, I can also see how he could mean the troops, I just assumed since he had once served himself it would be semi-defeating to talk about how stupid those who had served were.

But then again, this is Kerry, so who knows.

I am in no way defending any statement that is anti-troops.

10/31/2006 8:26:15 PM

No one is really defending Kerry in this thread.

^^ he actually only supposedly left out the word "us" and was suppose to say this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/kerrys-mangled-statement_b_32911.html
"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."

10/31/2006 8:26:25 PM

haven't read the whole thread, but...

Quote :

""if you join, be smart enough to go to the academy. dont be a dumbass and enlist.""

there are some grade-A first-class fucking retards from the Academies (at least the Naval Academy). i swear to God that 3/4 of them are clinically retarded. I'm pretty sure that, on average, a young, enlisted Marine rifleman is smarter than an Ensign from the Naval Academy...haha

10/31/2006 8:27:40 PM

aha my bro in the air force doesn't' think too highly of some of the army guys he's had to hang out with from time to time

10/31/2006 8:28:59 PM

^^ I think you should apologize to our troops for calling them retards.

10/31/2006 8:29:42 PM

Quote :

" if a republican said the same thing you and the liberal media would eat them alive"

Isn't this story on the front-page of most "liberal media" sources right now?

Look -- I support the war. I support the troops. But I don't see the big deal here.

For one thing, it's very true. Not just for servicemen -- as the GOP has spun it. If you're a low-wage worker in this country, Iraq offers many opportunities to make three or four times your salary with big tax breaks. People who make $20k/year here will go overseas and make $80k/year for months at a time, and of course they take on all that entails.

As to the military -- well, the fact is, Iraq isn't exactly driving up recruiting numbers. If anyone here believes the military is just flooded with honorable, selfless young men applying to serve in Iraq instead of working in a white-collar office job, then you are full of it. They are desparate.

Do I think it's the responsibility of a U.S. Senator to encourage people to join the military, and to sell its virtues at every turn? Well, yes -- but let's at least be realistic about it. There's nothing credible about a fake plastic message where we all make-believe that Iraq is a bed of roses. It's a killing pit. Our young people are dying there. Kerry's ironic tone might be off-putting, but there's nothing wrong with him telling kids some down-home truth.

One might argue, then, that the President has done our servicemen the most harm by insisting, with hammering fists, that we discuss Iraq only in terms of The Message, and never in terms of reality. At this late stage, it's not a justifiable tone to take with the public.

[Edited on October 31, 2006 at 8:46 PM. Reason : foo]

10/31/2006 8:46:21 PM

Quote :

""I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq." "

I know they improvise, but what he actually said isn't even close to that.

I also like how he checks his notes like 3 seconds before he makes this "omission"

I don't think its a huge deal for someone to say, but for someone running for president it is obviosuly a faux pas.

[Edited on October 31, 2006 at 8:50 PM. Reason : .]

10/31/2006 8:49:50 PM

^ huh? He only left out the word "us" from what he intended to say. The first part about education doesn't have any bearing on the meaning, he really screwed up the second part though.

10/31/2006 8:53:23 PM

From the video:
Last part:

Quote :

"You get stuck in Iraq"

versus

Quote :

"You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq"

You see more than one word missing?

10/31/2006 8:57:36 PM

Quote :

"""I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting stuck in a war in Iraq.""

Haha. Any officer worth his rank knows Kerry's statement is true. When all the enlistees come in, they're given a test and given an aptitude ranking after taking the test. The low rankers are put in infantry to be cannon fodder. They're not going to put the smart enlistees in positions to get killed. That's just how it works. (Note: some choose infantry, so not saying they are necessarily stupid).

Kerry is an idiot for saying it out loud in public though.

10/31/2006 9:06:14 PM

If he had said "you get us stuck in Iraq" the meaning would be entirely different.

But, you are right, from that particular quote, it's more than one word.

10/31/2006 9:06:26 PM

^I agree with you that had he put "us" in there it could have been construed another way. But even still, he certainly wasn't implying that all of the kids could become president (it didn't work for him, right?)

He should have stuck to what he knows and said "I have a plan to make fun of George Bush and you will laugh"

10/31/2006 10:18:42 PM

In any case, I think Kerry is handling it well, almost Rove-esque in his spinning.

10/31/2006 10:21:35 PM

lol, I wouldn't give him the Master Spin award yet.

I'd like him to be a little less arrogant about it. Maybe even take a shot at himself by saying Bush isn't the only one who sucks at public speaking or something.

Instead he's like "I have nothing to apologize about. It was going to be very funny. I look a lot like Frankenstein and sound similar as well."

10/31/2006 10:27:43 PM

Apologizing is over rated.

How many things has Bush ever apologized for or expressed regret about? None in his first term, and very few things in this second half.

I think his current tactic of repeatedly denying it was ever a knock at the troops, then quickly changing the subject to attack Bush's handling of the Iraq war (Bush's weakest area) is his best course of action.

10/31/2006 10:36:55 PM

These politicians refuse to apologize for anything. Kerry should learn from the arrogance of Nixon.

Instead of apologizing for a Freudian moment of sincerity, he gives us a democratic primary stump speech. Amazing lack of strategy.

He could've even given us one of those apology-sounding non-apologies....

"I'm very deeply and sincerely sorry that my statement was misunderstood. If the confusion in my meaning upset anyone, I humbly beg your forgiveness."

[Edited on October 31, 2006 at 11:40 PM. Reason : .]

10/31/2006 11:39:38 PM

Dentaldamn...
I have a question for you.
Currently, one thing is generally agreed upon by both sides.
That is that 90% of the current insurgents in Iraq are not from Iraq.

Now..putting aside the little point that the people who live there must not object to the change and therefore have not joined in with the terrorist.
Why do you think that it is so important to these outside terrorist that Democracy not get a foothold in Iraq? In fact...why is it so important that they will supply 90% of the manpower and resources?
Keep in mind that if Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror, then there is no motivation for the terrorist to be there.

[Edited on November 1, 2006 at 12:57 AM. Reason : .]

11/1/2006 12:56:57 AM

moron....
If you think that Kerry is handling this issue well, then I hope you will join me in a wish.
I hope that he and the rest of the Democrats handle upcoming issues the same way.

11/1/2006 1:00:10 AM

Quote :

"Keep in mind that if Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror, then there is no motivation for the terrorist to be there. "

That's pretty idiotic reasoning.

Quote :

"He could've even given us one of those apology-sounding non-apologies.... "I'm very deeply and sincerely sorry that my statement was misunderstood. If the confusion in my meaning upset anyone, I humbly beg your forgiveness." "

He could have gone that way, but that would have give the republicans more ammo to use against him, with the fake apology. As it is now, they can't really quote his explanation without bringing up Bush's war.

People would have anticipated that fake apology, and they probably already had retorts for it, but his statement as is mixed things up, and gave him more media attention.

11/1/2006 3:04:21 AM

I think it's cute how there are some people that are holding on to the idea that the Republicans are blowing this way out of proportion. This is how politics work... irregardless of party lines. Democrats would do the same if they were in the same position. Democrats have done the same when in the same position.

The political parties always have the radar turned on for events like these. It helps them shift focus away from the last unimportant thing their opponents radar has picked up all while helping both parties avoid talking about real issues.

11/1/2006 7:53:56 AM

Quote :

"helping both parties avoid talking about real issues."

bingo

11/1/2006 8:12:49 AM

Quote :

"...Kerry has managed on the eve of what could be a watershed election to remind pretty much everyone what it was they didn't like about the Democrats, and especially what they didn't like about him. It might have made more sense just to say he was sorry — for once to get ahead of a mistake, instead of trying to compensate for it the next time. --Karen Tumulty, TIME "

11/1/2006 9:36:09 AM

Hook. Line. Sinker.

By continuing to argue about the intelligence of those who go into the military and that single line from Kerry's speech, you have taken the GOP bait and are doing exactly what they want you too. You all will be as stupid as Randy soon.

11/1/2006 10:06:57 AM

Quote :

"you have taken the GOP bait "

Would you say the similar thing happened when everyone "took the bait" of the Foley incident and the "Stay the Course" flap? Were we just playing into democrat's hands or were those real concerns?

11/1/2006 11:08:20 AM

Not really looking to go too off topic here. The GOP took a flubbed line that really doesn't have anything to do with any relevant issue and turned it into a battle cry, even though they know that it is not how it was meant to be received. They have completely skirted every other point Kerry brought up, which pretty much validated what he said.

That being said, the Foley incident was completely different. The GOP covered up legitimate concerns they had with Foley. Not to mention that the situation was galvanized by the fact that he was the Chair of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. It was a Democratic rallying cry b/c it showed corruption in the GOP itself, which is a big concern.

In the end, both parties do it, but that doesn't make it any more right. The GOP is in a very powerful position, which makes it all too easy to get away with more and more.

11/1/2006 12:03:15 PM

aha

11/1/2006 12:57:52 PM

^ hahahaha

my coworkers just peed in their pants over that

11/1/2006 1:05:58 PM

^^ hahahha

11/1/2006 1:39:04 PM

i bet they think they're pretty clever

11/1/2006 1:54:37 PM

JOKES ON THEM! THEY ARE IN IRAQ!

11/1/2006 1:54:54 PM

^^^^^ Hahahaha! I was just about to post that one too.

11/1/2006 2:18:24 PM

The troops stand behind their country, and against detractors like Kerry.

[Edited on November 1, 2006 at 2:42 PM. Reason : .]

11/1/2006 2:42:12 PM

because we all know that our country does NOT stand for dissent to established power

11/1/2006 2:43:56 PM

Kerry degraded the troops, and now he's getting what he deserves.

11/1/2006 2:45:09 PM

With as much criticism as Bush has gotten for how he worded or phrased certain things, Kerry should've phrased his comments a lot more tactfully if he strictly wanted to say the president had gotten us into Iraq instead of implying that its our troops who were there and were dumb

But I guess Kerry isn't 100x smarter than Bush like everybody says

11/1/2006 3:15:53 PM

we've just grown accustomed to bush botching everything that he says.

11/1/2006 3:18:40 PM

well he has said a whole lot more publically in the last 6 years than Kerry, being President and all

11/1/2006 3:25:26 PM

refer to the '04 debates to compare speaking ability of the two.

11/1/2006 3:53:19 PM

^^ Though Kerry's comment, even with the standards lowered by Bush, was still not the smartest given the timing. That, or people actually expect Kerry to be careful about what he says, being a respected senator and all, which makes such a comment all the more shocking.

11/1/2006 3:54:07 PM