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11/8/2006 11:18:53 AM

you people are retarded.



Why on earth would it be important for us to beat Duke and especially UNC on a consistent basis?



BECAUSE WE ALL WORK AND LIVE WITH THE RIVAL TEAMS FANS AND HAVE TO TAKE BULLSHIT FROM THEM EVERY TIME WE LOSE....AND IT GETS OLD BEING ON THE RECEIVING END EVERY FUCKING YEAR FOR 10 17 YEARS.


As I said earlier in the thread, we dont need to win the NCAA Tournament every year to satisfy our fans. But a final 4 trip and an ACC Championship every 10 years would be nice. We expected that and MORE before the end of the valvano era...why not try to get back to that point?



[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 11:30 AM. Reason : ]

11/8/2006 11:29:08 AM

^too bad that shit isn't gonna happen



FIRE CHUCK

[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 11:34 AM. Reason : s]

11/8/2006 11:34:06 AM

Quote :

"BECAUSE WE ALL WORK AND LIVE WITH THE RIVAL TEAMS FANS AND HAVE TO TAKE BULLSHIT FROM THEM EVERY TIME WE LOSE....AND IT GETS OLD BEING ON THE RECEIVING END EVERY FUCKING YEAR FOR 10 17 YEARS. "

Who cares as long as we make it to the NCAA Tournament? Its not like they are weak programs. This is the ACC, you're not going to beat everybody.

11/8/2006 11:40:48 AM

And we aren't going to beat UNC or DUKE in bball.

11/8/2006 11:41:52 AM

^^AND GET KNOCKED OUT IN THE FIRST OR SECOND ROUND AND NEVER THREATEN ANYONE YEAH THAT MAKES GOOD SENSE I'M SATISFIED TO HEAR ABOUT HOW MUCH MY TEAM SUCKS DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY.................

11/8/2006 11:45:29 AM

Am I the only optimistic one that thinks we will be competing at UNC/Duke's level within the next 4 years? I really dont see Lowe being a mediocre coach...he just needs some time. I say we make the NCAA next year and then just build from there.

11/8/2006 11:50:01 AM

wolfAApack speaks the mofo truth, like it or not.

11/8/2006 11:55:36 AM

^^I dont know if we will, but I want someone on the bench that will try. Herb didnt give a shit. He treated the Duke and UNC games like they were the clemson game, when everyone else in the stadium thinks those games are much much bigger than that. He didnt get pissed when we got blown out by these teams. "its just one game"...yeah...one game that I have to hear about until we play them again....and then when we lose that one I have to hear about it for the next year.


The most telling thing about Herb was last years second UNC game, where the stadium was as pumped as I've ever seen it, we had a shot to win...AND home court...and we come out flat and play like we dont give a shit. Thats what Sidney will NOT let happen. Thats why we're having this conversation.

[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 11:56 AM. Reason : ^]

11/8/2006 11:55:41 AM

^you're on point, b. whole heartedly agree......gg.

11/8/2006 11:56:59 AM

Quote :

"Who cares as long as we make it to the NCAA Tournament?"

i'll bet you defend chuck b/c he "makes bowls" too

11/8/2006 1:54:31 PM

^ I'm not much of a Chuck fan. However, using some of the logic in this thread, I should be happy with him because he wins the "big games" against teams like FSU so that I have bragging rights when I go into work the next day. Afterall, being able to talk shit to rivals is more important than having a successful season overall

11/8/2006 2:17:23 PM

But he doesn't beat UNC.

Basically, all we want is to hold our own with our rivals(football) or occasionally beat them(basketball), and once per decade compete for the ACC title. Post season success is a bonus.

11/8/2006 2:23:08 PM

^ What everyone wants is to beat both UNC and Duke in a season, win the ACC Tournament, and reach the Final 4. How many years does Lowe have to do this before he's run out of town?

11/8/2006 2:28:08 PM

herb got about 10

11/8/2006 2:32:34 PM

^^ no, you're taking it too far, but it's nice to not get blown out at home by unc when they have one returning player, not to mention lose to them the first game, and then call it a succesful season.

oh, and florida state is not the "big game." any "rivalry" we have with fsu starts and ends with chuck.

edit: ^ exactly, we were patient with herb, but it became more and more clear that under him, the team was never going to get any better. second round in the tourney is not a good showing.

[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 2:36 PM. Reason : ^]

11/8/2006 2:32:36 PM

You're wrong JRattB. That's not the measure of success for a coach.

The guy in the article lays it out pretty well. It explains why Sendek was never accepted really despite his winning ways. It explains why we're excited about Sid, even though we'll rule the shitter for a year or two.

Win. Promote. Entertain. Dream.

Herb won some. We need the other three also.

Winning: occasionally beat our rivals, once or twice per decade challenge for the ACC title, and once per decade go to the final four. I'd say those requirements would satisfy 90% of the fanbase. Especially if a coach lived up to the other three...Promote, Entertain, Dream.

[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2006 2:33:20 PM

not to mention ncaa football is a totally different beast than ncaa basketball.

11/8/2006 2:33:37 PM

^That's the most bullshit argument I have ever heard.

Basketball is not easier to win at than football.

Div 1 Football teams: 117
Chances to win championship 1:117

Div 1 Basketball teams: 334
Chances to win championship 1:334

11/8/2006 2:47:53 PM

in reality the only teams that have a chance in FB are the BCS conference teams. In BB that isn't the case b/c of the Tourney.

11/8/2006 2:50:06 PM

Quote :

"Basketball is not easier to win at than football"

you show me where the hell i said that.

11/8/2006 2:52:10 PM

Quote :

"Sidney knows what we want without having to ask. It’s always better when your passion and your job coincide. Because of that we have a great opportunity."

11/8/2006 3:01:30 PM

^^ you may not have said that, but it's true. especially at nc state.

dividing one over the number of teams in d1 isn't even close to accurate, and here's why. so far this year, rutgers is undefeated. HOWEVER, even if rutgers wins out, they will without a doubt not get to play for the national championship. the same applies to us. even if chuck goes undefeated (LOL), we will more than likely not get a bid for a national title game in favor of either two other undefeated teams with established programs or a 1, or even a 2 loss team, also with an established program.

this is all not to mention the fact that one good recruiting class can essentially make a basketball team, where a football team requires years of building and years of good recruits before you have all of the tools necessary to contend nationally.

teams can be good in football without doing this (i.e. wake forest), but wake forest will not compete for a nat'l title anytime soon.

all of this is not nearly as big of an issue in basketball due to smaller teams and a tournament setup, among other things.

so yes, basketball IS easier to win than football.

[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 3:09 PM. Reason : ^]

11/8/2006 3:08:46 PM

^ that's why we need to end this BCS faggotry and get a tourney

11/8/2006 3:26:51 PM

yea, BCS system works for you if you've been around and won a couple of years. Even then you're not guaranteed unless you're Notre DAMN

11/8/2006 3:29:38 PM

wasn't this a basketball thread at one point?

11/8/2006 3:31:43 PM

If basketball was easier to win than football, then there would be more champions per year in basketball.

OH WAIT, THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE CHAMPION!

AND THERE ARE MORE BASKETBALL TEAMS!

If NC State were to go undefeated this year, and we were one of the only 2, then we would be playing for the championship.

11/8/2006 4:32:18 PM

^ it doesnt matter that there are more teams...the fact remains that you dont have to go undefeated in basketball to make it to the championship game whereas in football if you don't go undefeated then you can easily be left out of the title game. even sometimes when teams go undefeated they don't make the championship in football(see USC like two years ago)

we were not good at all in '83 but did awesome in the tournaments to get to and win the championship, hell we only went to the NCAA tourney cause we won the ACC.

[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 4:54 PM. Reason : we werent terrible]

11/8/2006 4:48:09 PM

Quote :

"not to mention ncaa football is a totally different beast than ncaa basketball."

apples and oranges people.....that was my original point.

11/8/2006 4:57:44 PM

yea, I was just commenting on how AndyMac said it was much harder to win in basketball

they are two completely different sports...obviously

11/8/2006 5:01:41 PM

Quote :

"If NC State were to go undefeated this year, and we were one of the only 2, then we would be playing for the championship."

you sir, are incorrect.

11/8/2006 5:28:28 PM

can somebody please post a link to a video of Julius Hodge beating UCONN ? i cant find it and i need to remind myself of his glory.

11/8/2006 8:24:03 PM

^^^ I didn't say it was harder, I'm just saying that there can be only 1 in each sport, therefore neither is harder.

People who criticized Herb for not winning one are (or were, most are getting the right idea now) giving Chuck a pass because "football is different" and somehow it's easier for a coach to win a championship in basketball, and that it should almost be expected that it will happen eventually.

If that's the case, then why doesn't every basketball coach win a championship?

[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 8:24 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2006 8:24:19 PM

^ ok, not to keep it on football, but if you knew anything about college football, you'd know it's harder to win a nat'l championship than in basketball. you can't have a cinderella team in football b/c the polls (which are still 2/3 of the bcs) KNOW they're just a cinderella team and don't rank them #1 or 2, and therefore they don't even get a chance. in basketball the top 65 teams get a shot.

now, about herb. it's not that he didn't win national championships, it's that he couldn't build a team strong enough to compete with the teams we need to be competing with. being totally satisfied with one win in the tournament and 2 losses/year to unc is unacceptable, and herb gave the impression that he was, in fact, totally satisfied with one win in the tourney and 2 losses/year to unc. i think 10 years is a very generous amount of time to give someone to get the program to where the people donating so much money expect it to be, and he didn't.

football IS different, and chuck WAS competitive with who we wanted him to be, even scheduled a pair against ohio state. apparently you don't get the whole bcs thing, but things like beating notre dame in a new year's day bowl (as down as that team was at the time) and scheduling ohio state (and taking them to 3 overtimes one of those times) are exactly what a coach needs to be doing to take the program forward. in football, if you don't play the good teams, you'll never be one of the good teams. so chuck was going in exactly the right direction, but it has since become clear that he can't do it without p.riv, and he is taking a beating for it from fans.

in football, it takes a few years of doing well to schedule big time teams, then it takes a few more years of doing well against those big time teams to get real national recognition, and it takes a stellar year in the national spotlight to get a chance to play for a national championship. in basketball it takes one decent year to get to the tourney, and you can do the rest from there. so there may only be ONE champ in each sport, but in football, TWO teams are chosen by the press and ncaa to compete for a title, as where in basketball SIXTY FIVE teams are chosen.

i hope this clears up for you why football is different than basketball, and why the expectations for football are lower at nc state, and also why chuck was supported by most fans until recently. i also apologize this got so long.

11/8/2006 8:49:00 PM

Quote :

"People who criticized Herb for not winning one are (or were, most are getting the right idea now) giving Chuck a pass because "football is different" and somehow it's easier for a coach to win a championship in basketball, and that it should almost be expected that it will happen eventually."

According to some people in this thread, its more important to beat their buddy's school down the road than to play in the tournament if only for two rounds.

Quote :

"If that's the case, then why doesn't every basketball coach win a championship? "

Thats what I'll never understand. Nobody wants to admit that there is some degree of luck involved with winning. If the tournament were to be played again with the same brackets and the same players on the team, the outcome would be different each time. The best thing a team can do is play in the tournament regularly and improve.

11/8/2006 8:58:57 PM

^ given the choice between beating carolina or winning one game in the tournament, i'll take beating carolina.

Quote :

"The best thing a team can do is play in the tournament regularly and improve."

but herb didn't improve.

11/8/2006 9:25:30 PM

when we hungry, we starve

11/8/2006 9:26:48 PM

Quote :

"ok, not to keep it on football, but if you knew anything about college football, you'd know it's harder to win a nat'l championship than in basketball."

Quote :

"If that's the case, then why doesn't every basketball coach win a championship?"

You're right there are different needs. Football coaches have to basically go undefeated for 12 games

But in basketball you have to go undefeated for 6 games with no more than a week (sometimes only a couple of days) of scouting. Plus there are far more teams that are competitive and able to take you out, even if they aren't able to win the championship themselves.

[Edited on November 8, 2006 at 9:59 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2006 9:57:10 PM

Quote :

"wolfAApack speaks the mofo truth, like it or not."

11/8/2006 9:58:59 PM

Quote :

"According to some people in this thread, its more important to beat their buddy's school down the road than to play in the tournament if only for two rounds. "

Its obvious that you arent paying attention to anything that was said in this thread.


I understand that UNC is better than us in basketball. I dont expect to beat them every year. I expect us to beat them every once in a while, and to give them a dog fight OFTEN. Herb was satisfied to roll over and play dead...and if my coach doesnt give a shit about a game that I care a lot about, then he can go fuck himself...and thats what we let him do.

On the other hand, if we were to lose every year to UNC, yet go farther than them in the NCAA tournament, and win some ACC championships I wouldnt be mad. But you CAN NOT lose to them, get knocked out of the ACC tournament, and lose in the first week of the NCAA tournament all in the same year....year after year after year after year after year after year....I dont konw why its so hard to get that through your thick skull.

11/8/2006 11:48:17 PM

we just need to worry about being good. if somewhere down the road we are going 30-3 with losses to unc and duke i couldnt ask for more.

11/8/2006 11:58:52 PM

I actually dont disagree with you, but we've never been close to that number so I dont know what this other guy is trying to argue.

11/8/2006 11:59:58 PM

WolfpackAA and Simonn are absolutely correct. What is so hard to understand about that?

They represent the vast majority of our fans, alumni, and students.

Either way, good article that tells it how it is about Herb and Sid.

11/9/2006 9:55:53 AM

JRattB is one thick headed retard

11/9/2006 10:09:10 AM

Quote :

"According to some people in this thread, its more important to beat their buddy's school down the road than to play in the tournament if only for two rounds."

yes, according to some people in this thread, and according to A LOT of fucking people that live in the triangle

11/9/2006 10:31:24 AM

Quote :

"I understand that UNC is better than us in basketball. I dont expect to beat them every year. I expect us to beat them every once in a while, and to give them a dog fight OFTEN. Herb was satisfied to roll over and play dead...and if my coach doesnt give a shit about a game that I care a lot about, then he can go fuck himself...and thats what we let him do. "

I'm not arguing the fact that last season was dissapointing but why does everyone use this as the basis for Herb being a bad coach? If you want to be critical of Herb, why doesn't anyone mention the fact that we lost to much worse teams last season. Thats what people should be mad about. Not because we lose to consistently ranked teams who happen to be our rivals.

11/9/2006 11:06:02 AM

greatttttttttttt article

11/9/2006 11:08:49 AM

Quote :

"can somebody please post a link to a video of Julius Hodge beating UCONN ? "

Here you go...

http://mfile.akamai.com/14372/wmv/mmod.download.akamai.com/14310/gamechmom/ncstconn_032005_moment.asx

11/9/2006 2:40:21 PM

Man that was a great moment.

I'm still glad I've got my Jules bobblehead doll.

I can promise that it'll remind of good times for years to come.

11/9/2006 2:46:55 PM

Quote :

"I'm not arguing the fact that last season was dissapointing but why does everyone use this as the basis for Herb being a bad coach? If you want to be critical of Herb, why doesn't anyone mention the fact that we lost to much worse teams last season. Thats what people should be mad about. Not because we lose to consistently ranked teams who happen to be our rivals. "

I've bitched more about doing shit like beating the #1 ranked team in the country, then 4 days later losing to clemson than you probaby care to know. Thats not the issue we were discussing, and you shouldnt (too late) base our fans opinions off of a couple of wolfweb threads.

The issue we were discussing was the fact that you claimed that we should be satisfied to make the NCAA tournament every year, get knocked out in the first round, and get reamed by UNC. Thats the direction the conversation took, so this new evidence you bring up that herb was a bad coach is irrelevant. Its true, I agree, but it doesnt mean we should take it in the ass every time we play UNC, then pretend like nothing happened. Even if we do take it in the ass from them, we better put up a fight and be pissed off after it happens.

11/9/2006 3:15:05 PM