2

11/10/2006 6:05:34 AM

Quote :

"I mean, for God's sakes, why don't you host a parade down Pennslyvania Avenue and burn Condolezza Rice in effigy while you're at it?"

I am not sure this isn't a bad idea.

The fact is this was a victory of conservatives over neo-conseratives and both parties know it. They are going on and on about how this election was decided by Indepenents.

As Tim Russert said

Quote :

" Independents are former republicans whose parents were former democrats. We are a talking about disaffected Reagan Democrats"

Or from Chris Matthews

Quote :

"There are the guys who live in the suburbs and commute to the big cities. They are basically socially liberal but fiscally conservative. They are pretty much libertarians"

There has been nothing out of this Republican Party but gay bashing, pork barrel spending and trauncing around as the world's policeman. It is a disgrace. The libertarian vote went democrat this time and it made the difference. Pelosi knows it and Bush knows it.

Thats why he dumped Rumy for H.W. Bush era conservative. He wanted to make a break with the Neo-Cons.

11/10/2006 10:08:24 AM

The grave-robbing death tax isn't even a very effective tax. For all the agony it imposes on families, it only raises about 1% of federal revenues.

The death tax is a tax on savings. A fair tax is one that taxes spending rather than income or savings.

Social security has a 100% tax at your death. You lose all that money ripped from your paycheck during your working life.

The motive to pass on wealth to your children is very great. What caring parent doesn't want their kids to get all the help they can in life. And what is wrong with this?

The vision of the taxman rifling through the pockets of a deadman for his last remaining pennies should embarass us all.

11/10/2006 10:14:52 AM

I'm with you earthdogg, I just don't see how you can tax hard work and savings

and btw... alot of these "spiled rich kids" were kids that had to bust their ass working on their parents land in the first place

11/10/2006 10:33:41 AM

i cant say I agree with the death tax

and I have no idea what your talking about with rich kids working in fields.

11/10/2006 11:24:28 AM

haha, no kidding

11/10/2006 11:32:27 AM

for the record, pelosi's politics are closer to baltimore style than cock-up-the-ass frisco, you know, because she did grow up in b-more and her dad was mayor

they dont fuck around up in maryland

11/10/2006 12:33:00 PM

dental

what I am saying is that there are plenty of people that have 2 million in land and that the kids who live there work for their families as kids growing up trying to improve it...

if their parents saw it fit that they inherit that land then they should


there is a big difference between having 2 million in the bank and 2 million worth of property and assets

11/10/2006 1:13:58 PM

let me know when i should start feeling sorry for a kid who doesn't get a bigger piece of his mommy and daddy's wealth.

11/10/2006 1:16:20 PM

^^Plenty of people?

Why won't you guys stop with that shit?

The estate affects two percent of the general population. TWO PERCENT!

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 1:18 PM. Reason : ccc]

11/10/2006 1:18:25 PM

you're telling me that there isn't plenty of people with 2 million in assets and land?


maybe you should look at the tax records for wake county alone


ps... I'm going to be one of those people one day and no, I don't want the government messing with it

11/10/2006 1:24:29 PM

you believe that you should be given money you didn't work for?

what are you feelings on welfare?

11/10/2006 1:34:08 PM

There is a world of difference between the government taking my money at gun point and giving it to some homeless guy and me choosing to give my money to some homeless guy.

^^^ That's still about 8 million people. I would definately qualify that as plenty of people.

11/10/2006 1:36:35 PM

fyi, you can give all your assets at death to charity and it is not taxed.

11/10/2006 1:38:54 PM

^^^ it's family money

don't act like you're too dumb to understand what I am talking about just so you can make some point about how I'm a bad person for not believing what you do

It's my money, already been taxed, it should be up to me where it goes


families make money together also
family company, family business, family farm

and no, I'm not a fan of welfare because it promotes lazy work ethics among certain people

^ why would you not want to give it to your family
most people want their kids to be better off than they were

some of you may be content with whatever lifestyle you have, but don't hold it against others that want more


[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 1:41 PM. Reason : ...]

11/10/2006 1:39:57 PM

Lots of haters in here. They apparently just cannot stand the concept of some people striving to be more than middle class.

BridgetSPK, you don't care about the 2 percent affected by the Estate Robbery...I mean...Tax because you'll probably never be part of the 2 percent affected by it.

I think that it is wrong for the Estate Tax to affect even 2 percent of the population. It does one thing, and one thing only: punish those who have worked hard and smart enough to be sucessful. Taking over half of someone's money can turn someone who was moderately wealthy into someone who is merely middle class. Anyone WANT to be middle class? I know I sure don't.

Did anyone know that the Estate Tax actually costs the government more to administer than it generates in revenue?
That reason alone makes it bordering on outright thievery, the government spending money so they can take people's money.

11/10/2006 1:44:49 PM

Quote :

"you believe that you should be given money you didn't work for? what are you feelings on welfare?"

I think that people who did work for their money should be in complete control of where it goes upon their death. No matter who it is, no matter how much money it is. Yes, I don't have a problem with children of wealthy families getting a large inheritance that they didn't work for. It's not taking anything from me, is it? Anyone who has a problem with that is just jealous, no matter what they say.



Welfare burdens the nation and promotes laziness, as do most other handouts.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 1:54 PM. Reason : x]

11/10/2006 1:52:08 PM

Quote :

"I think that it is wrong for the Estate Tax to affect even 2 percent of the population. It does one thing, and one thing only: punish those who have worked hard and smart enough to be sucessful. Taking over half of someone's money can turn someone who was moderately wealthy into someone who is merely middle class. Anyone WANT to be middle class? I know I sure don't."

the flaw in your logic is that the people who have worked are fucking dead.

11/10/2006 2:12:42 PM

assets are assets, no matter how many of them you have

this shouldnt be a class argument...

11/10/2006 2:17:17 PM

Quote :

"BridgetSPK, you don't care about the 2 percent affected by the Estate Robbery...I mean...Tax because you'll probably never be part of the 2 percent affected by it."

If everything goes as planned, I will not be affected by it because my parents plan to spend every dime in their retirement.

If something goes wrong, there's a chance we could be affected by it, and you know what, I'm okay with that because I wasn't gonna see that money anyway.

Quote :

"Did anyone know that the Estate Tax actually costs the government more to administer than it generates in revenue? That reason alone makes it bordering on outright thievery, the government spending money so they can take people's money."

Myth. Fool.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ]

11/10/2006 2:24:11 PM

^^but it is. a big point of estate tax is that many think it's not right to maintain an aristocratic class of people who just live off the wealth of their ancestors without working.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2006 2:25:00 PM

the other side of it is EVERYONE wants to pass on any accumulated wealth, regardless of the amount

11/10/2006 3:34:27 PM

11/10/2006 4:54:40 PM

No one is getting robbed on the estate tax. I especially don't want to hear the argument about being taxed twice, because the person originally taxed is now dead. The person getting taxed is the person gaining the assets. Therefore it is income.

11/10/2006 4:58:53 PM

the property and money itself has already been taxed



they love to get their piece of the pie

11/10/2006 6:40:03 PM

the estate tax helps prevent a new aristocracy and is vital to preserving american culture as we know it

11/10/2006 7:01:05 PM

Quote :

"Ds97Z: BridgetSPK, you don't care about the 2 percent affected by the Estate Robbery...I mean...Tax because you'll probably never be part of the 2 percent affected by it."

Quote :

"theDuke866: I think you--and most people--have a distorted view of the common millionaire. they're all around you, and you don't even know it."

I just wanted to point out that you can't always judge a person based on their political views. Both of these fools pretty much told me that I don't understand this situation because I've never been associated with that kind of money. I grew up in a household with two hard-working, well-compensated parents who have not once bitched about paying taxes. Call us crazy!

Even my friends' conservative parents don't talk about taxes in public. It's unseemly.

11/10/2006 8:16:19 PM

Quote :

"many think it's not right to maintain an aristocratic class of people who just live off the wealth of their ancestors without working"

What difference does it make to you if someone is living off a trust fund? Which of your rights is being violated?

11/10/2006 9:15:30 PM

Quote :

"the estate tax helps prevent a new aristocracy"

What the Hell is so bad about aristocracy? We're not living in the feudal middle ages here; nobody is going to be made a serf.

The question of how money is passed along is fundamentally one of values. Who are you to judge the values of all families? Who are you to say that inherited wealth won't be spent according to principle and upbringing?

We're better off with the Rockefeller, Jrs of the world. Will all inherited wealth go that way? No. But direct lineage is the surest way to pass on intelligence, sense, and values, imbued with good fortune.

11/10/2006 10:10:42 PM

^^^ "Watch your wallet!" "They're going to soak the rich!"

11/11/2006 5:25:14 AM

Quote :

"Did anyone know that the Estate Tax actually costs the government more to administer than it generates in revenue?"

People are consistenly making this mistake. It has been estimated that more money is spend on the evasion of the estate tax than is collected. This does not mean more money is spent collecting.

11/11/2006 11:26:20 AM

im never going to be really rich so im not gonna boohoo

11/11/2006 6:04:40 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15227667/from/ET/

Quote :

"Critics of a minimum wage hike have contended a higher minimum wage lead employers to cut jobs or move them offshore. They also say that many minimum wage earners are teenagers working after-school jobs. The economists disagreed, writing that a phased-in increase in the federal minimum wage to $7.25 “falls well within the range of options where the benefits to the labor market, workers, and the overall economy would be positive.” The economists wrote that they share the view of a 1999 Council of Economic Advisors Economic report that found “the weight of the evidence suggests that modest increases in the minimum wage have had very little or no effect on employment.” The economists wrote, “While controversy about the precise employment effects of the minimum wage continues, research has shown that most of the beneficiaries are adults, most are female, and the vast majority are members of low-income working families.”"

11/14/2006 4:12:28 PM

Quote :

""the estate tax helps prevent a new aristocracy""

That is the dumbest reason for taxing people I've ever heard.

11/14/2006 8:03:35 PM

Hey guys an alcohol tax will prevent drunks.

lets get on that.

11/14/2006 8:08:06 PM

Quote :

""Evade" and "avoid" are almost completely interchangeable in common parlance. "

Yet in legal and financial terms they are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

And gg on burning me for spelling is essentually, when essentially is only 1 letter difference and they are also NEXT TO ONE ANOTHER ON THE KEYBOARD.

Oh and I love this:

Quote :

"The estate affects two percent of the general population. TWO PERCENT!"

How many people does the minimum wage affect? Should we not care what happens to either the richest two percent or the poorest two percent simply because they are so small in number? Why shouldn't we rape two percent of the population and enrich ourselves?

[Edited on November 14, 2006 at 9:16 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2006 9:12:50 PM

Quote :

"I grew up in a household with two hard-working, well-compensated parents who have not once bitched about paying taxes."

Yep, and then there are people who pay more in taxes every year than you and your parents have in their entire life. And they never bitch about it. I don't blame them for bitching, however, when the government demands over half of what they have upon their passing.

And the estate tax hardly being able to pay for itself is not a "myth". Fool.

The estate tax is nothing more than a Democratic feel good "Robin Hood" policy that amounts to almost outright thievery from some of this nation's most productive citizens.

When my time comes, if this estate tax hasn't been mercifully euthanized, I'll just hire an attourney who specializes in the transfer and concealment of assets Your socialist statist thieves won't be getting what I have for sure

[Edited on November 15, 2006 at 9:38 AM. Reason : ,,]

11/15/2006 9:37:20 AM

They're not productive

They're dead

This is a more important distinction than you seem to want to give it credit for

11/15/2006 11:54:13 AM

Quote :

"i think you'd be surprised. $2 million ain't really shit. plenty of people have $2 million in net worth, and most of them don't really have a flashy lifestyle."

Is this guy an idiot? Should I bother to respond to this quote? Just because someone doesn't live flashy, doesn't mean they are middle class. I think you're the one that has the distorted view.

11/15/2006 12:47:19 PM

Quote :

"They're not productive They're dead This is a more important distinction than you seem to want to give it credit for"

Not really. If a person works to build wealth all their life, then they should be in charge of it when they die. You socialists seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that some people and some families strive to suceed and build wealth through hard work and shrewd business practices, and if they are successful, then they are entitled to every penny.

11/15/2006 1:13:44 PM

Quote :

" they should be in charge of it when they die."

i hope you realize the absurdity of that statement.

11/15/2006 1:18:23 PM

Quote :

"Ds97Z: Yep, and then there are people who pay more in taxes every year than you and your parents have in their entire life. And they never bitch about it. I don't blame them for bitching, however, when the government demands over half of what they have upon their passing."

There are people who have and make more money than my parents?!?!

OMG, I DIDN'T KNOW!

Quote :

"Ds97Z: And the estate tax hardly being able to pay for itself is not a "myth". Fool."

That's cute. Before you said:

Quote :

"Ds97Z: Did anyone know that the Estate Tax actually costs the government more to administer than it generates in revenue?"

Did you look it up and discover that it was a myth and then decide to change the wording so you wouldn't look like an ass who bought into a ridiculous myth?

Quote :

"Ds97Z: The estate tax is nothing more than a Democratic feel good "Robin Hood" policy that amounts to almost outright thievery from some of this nation's most productive citizens."

I thought it started to pay for a war?

Quote :

"Ds97Z: When my time comes, if this estate tax hasn't been mercifully euthanized, I'll just hire an attourney who specializes in the transfer and concealment of assets Your socialist statist thieves won't be getting what I have for sure"

Good for you?

Quote :

"bgmims: How many people does the minimum wage affect? Should we not care what happens to either the richest two percent or the poorest two percent simply because they are so small in number? Why shouldn't we rape two percent of the population and enrich ourselves?"

Throughout this entire thread, I've been objecting to this notion that the estate tax is some huge burden on the hard-working middle class. If we're going to talk about the estate tax, we need to be honest.

I've read on the internets that it affects two percent of the population and makes up one percent of our federal budget. I dunno how I feel about that.

11/15/2006 1:34:56 PM

Quote :

"If a person works to build wealth all their life, then they should be in charge of it when they die. You socialists seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that some people and some families strive to suceed and build wealth through hard work and shrewd business practices, and if they are successful, then they are entitled to every penny."

1) i haven't seen anything in the Constitution or any other founding, guiding document that says you still have rights after you die.
2) You laissez-faire whiners seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that some people with no talent, no brains, and no contribution to society or business inherit a lot of money from mommy and daddy that they certainly did not earn.
3) Nobody is ever entitled to "every penny" of anything. Sane people find it acceptable to tax people during their life, and I presume you don't advocate the abolition of all taxes.

11/15/2006 2:41:53 PM

Quote :

"2) You laissez-faire whiners seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that some people with no talent, no brains, and no contribution to society or business inherit a lot of money from mommy and daddy that they certainly did not earn."

Sure, this happens. And what do those no-brain, no-talent hacks do with that money? They spend it and don't replenish it. Thus, it works out in the end anyway. Grumpy, if you don't think people deserve rights after death, why not just confiscate everything when someone dies. Pictures, houses, cars, bank accounts, etc.

Why should average americans deserve more rights to their stuff after death than wealthy americans?

11/15/2006 3:06:52 PM

Maybe because that 20-30 grand going to the offspring of a solidly middle class family will have more of a benefit than the 1-2 million of the 2-4million that the rich offspring don't get? Just maybe?

11/15/2006 3:36:45 PM

what?



ok, you're tripping



anyways, it must suck to try and not make stupid threads like you did with your old SN huh

11/15/2006 3:41:42 PM

You're right comrade, that's too much money for one person while some are starving.

We'll show the Bourgeoisie

11/15/2006 5:18:21 PM

I am all about one person having crazy huge amounts of money --

when they've earned it somehow.

Quote :

"Grumpy, if you don't think people deserve rights after death, why not just confiscate everything when someone dies. Pictures, houses, cars, bank accounts, etc."

There are things which can be rightly argued to belong more to the family as a whole, things like pictures, houses, and possibly cars. There are also things whose value is so low that confiscating them would result in a net loss for the confiscater. I also think there is great social value to being able to leave your kids a moderate sum to help establish themselves, pay off debts, and the like. I'd obviously need access to more information to lay down specifics, but in general I am confident that the assets being gleaned by the estate tax typically don't fall into this category, and that you could quite possibly expand the tax without it doing so.

Quote :

"They spend it and don't replenish it."

I know I'll catch flak for saying it, but I don't care: I tend to think that even a barely-competently-run government social program has higher potential to benefit society than a pack of second- or third-generation wealthy mongoloids buying luxury goods.

11/15/2006 9:02:29 PM

according to the afternoon guy on 680am, Nancy Pelosi sent 75 Democrats to burn down the army recruiting center in Chapel Hill today!

11/15/2006 9:06:19 PM

Quote :

"Did you look it up and discover that it was a myth and then decide to change the wording so you wouldn't look like an ass who bought into a ridiculous myth?"

No. I hedged my bet because the last stats I saw were from 1998.
The elimination of this tax would hardly not our federal budget. I don't see why you think it's so precious.

So it affects only 2 percent of the population. So taking more than half of what the most successful 2 percent of the people in this country have upon their death is excusable?
This is not the type of tax law that encourages people to strive to succeed and build wealth. It slows down small businesses (the bulk of millionaires in this country are small business owners, you want to take more than half of their family business upon their death).

11/16/2006 9:52:23 AM