When you orgasm, a signal is sent to contract a series of muscles forcing out a gooey load. If those muscles dont contract, you still get the neuro muscular pleasure of the orgasm, but no money shot. The two occur at the same time, but one isnt dependant on the other.

11/29/2006 10:33:37 PM

ive had dry shots before, its not as fun

and also taking a pill isnt my responsibility

[Edited on November 29, 2006 at 10:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2006 10:35:00 PM

Quote :

"as long as women can get abortions men should have no mandated responsibility for contraception or fatherhood"

Abortions aren't contraceptive processes, and they shouldn't be the reason you want to dump all the responsibility on us, either.

I guess if she chose to have the kid, you'd run off because it wasn't your responsibility, too.

[Edited on November 29, 2006 at 10:57 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2006 10:56:48 PM

Quote :

""as long as women can get abortions men should have no mandated responsibility for contraception or fatherhood""

Is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, please tell me you don't believe that.

11/29/2006 11:13:29 PM

Quote :

"When you orgasm, a signal is sent to contract a series of muscles forcing out a gooey load. If those muscles dont contract, you still get the neuro muscular pleasure of the orgasm, but no money shot. The two occur at the same time, but one isnt dependant on the other."

and back further in your first post...

But that'd all be based on the assumption that the sperm is still just sitting in the balls and never goes anywhere. I dunno cause I'm not a doc, maybe you are, but I figured they're already on the move, then just gets held up at the roadblock somewhere along the way. Clear the roadblock, they're free to go type thing. Thats just the way I read it.

11/29/2006 11:33:46 PM

Quote :

" Is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, please tell me you don't believe that."

if women have a right of refusal, and men and women are equal, then men should have a right of refusal

i seriously believe that

men shouldnt be forced to pay child payments unless mothers can be forced to have the child

11/30/2006 7:02:42 AM

Quote :

"For all I know, it might. I didn't have an orgasm before I was on the pill. And actually, I know several women who've completely lost all sexual drive after going on the pill. "

Wait, you decided to go on the pill BEFORE you ever masterbated? Damn, that's some foresight. Or did you go on the pill for other medical reasons? Regulation of flow? Decrease in pain during ovulation? Or did you forget the other side effects? What percentage of women lose all sexual drive? (The anwer to the orgasm question is no: it does not).

And Guth, while I still believe there is male responsibility in bringing a condom (for health reasons not simply related to pregnancy) I totally agree with you that the right of refusal that women get puts them at an unfair advantage in their reproductive choices. We deserve the right to a)decide against fatherhood in the same way or b)ensure a fetus we helped create isn't done away with without our consent.

11/30/2006 7:53:17 AM

Quote :

"Abortions aren't contraceptive processes, and they shouldn't be the reason you want to dump all the responsibility on us, either."

While I agree that abortions shouldn't be a contraceptive process, you later statement is why I made my statement earlier- you act as if the pill is the only way. A man has an easy choice of contraceptive,so if you don't ask a guy to use a condom or tell him you rather him not--which is something ive had happen--then you are accepting the child prevention as your sole responsibility and additionally accepting the risk that you may get pregnant. If you make that decision, then you shouldn't be complaining about your responsibility. If you ask a guy to use a condom, and he says he is not going to, then keep your legs closed- best form of contraception right there. Its that simple.

Quote :

"a)decide against fatherhood in the same way or b)ensure a fetus we helped create isn't done away with without our consent. "

Ex FUCKING ACTLY. And before anyone goes on a tangent that abortions are about health issues, only 3% are done because of the womans health, meaning that the other 97% are done because having a baby is in some way seen as an inconvience. If a woman has the right to decide to have no child based on it being an inconvience, then a man should be granted the same right- thats what equality is.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 11:05 AM. Reason : 0->-<]

11/30/2006 11:02:02 AM

Quote :

"Oh sweet Whackin off with no mess."

11/30/2006 1:59:19 PM

Quote :

"as long as women can get abortions men should have no mandated responsibility for contraception or fatherhood"

i'm gonna have to go ahead and cosign this one.

and i don't trust the pill.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 4:16 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 4:15:52 PM

Quote :

"if women have a right of refusal, and men and women are equal, then men should have a right of refusal"

but who's having the kid? i really think women should have the right to keep the kid or not, and not men cause they're the one who have to carry the baby. so i'll give them that credit.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 4:36 PM. Reason : if you don't agree, then tough luck. use a condom. ]

11/30/2006 4:34:49 PM

I hope I never see the "men have no responsibility whatsoever" people on here complain about never getting any.

11/30/2006 4:35:56 PM

Quote :

"but who's having the kid?"

Physically or legally? Once she does, you owe the child support.
So, if she wants to allow your seed to live, regardless of your opinion, you owe the dough.
If she wants to stop it, regardless or your opinion, you're out of luck.

11/30/2006 4:45:41 PM

The only way that the woman has all responsibility and the guy has zero is if

1. She lies about birth control
2. She says she wants a kid even if you don't want one (ie you're just donating sperm)

If a you have a sex, even with bc, you're taking a chance that a pregnancy could result, if you don't want to take that chance, don't have sex.

11/30/2006 5:00:10 PM

you mean vaginal sex

what about buttsecks

11/30/2006 5:12:35 PM

Quote :

"If a you have a sex, even with bc, you're taking a chance that a pregnancy could result, if you don't want to take that chance, don't have sex. "

So does that mean that in order to engage in sex with a woman, a man is forced to give up ALL reproductive rights, but the same is not the case for a woman?

Man, we're getting the shit end of the stick on this one, no wonder so many dudes are turning to the shit end on the stick method then.

11/30/2006 5:21:00 PM

Quote :

"While I agree that abortions shouldn't be a contraceptive process, you later statement is why I made my statement earlier- you act as if the pill is the only way. A man has an easy choice of contraceptive,so if you don't ask a guy to use a condom or tell him you rather him not--which is something ive had happen--then you are accepting the child prevention as your sole responsibility and additionally accepting the risk that you may get pregnant. If you make that decision, then you shouldn't be complaining about your responsibility. If you ask a guy to use a condom, and he says he is not going to, then keep your legs closed- best form of contraception right there. Its that simple."

Yes, I realize condoms are the standard male contraception, etc. I'm not debating they have other options, too. But you guys are being stupid fucks if you're saying you give up all responsibility by trying to use a condom. Sometimes they break- then what? Dump it on the dumb bitch for having sex and "it's not my problem"? Fuck you.

Quote :

"Wait, you decided to go on the pill BEFORE you ever masterbated? Damn, that's some foresight. Or did you go on the pill for other medical reasons? Regulation of flow? Decrease in pain during ovulation? Or did you forget the other side effects? What percentage of women lose all sexual drive? (The anwer to the orgasm question is no: it does not)."

I was on the pill really early because I had terrible cramps (I couldn't even walk- the pain shot down my legs, etc). I've been on some form of it since I was 13 or so... And I didn't know women could even have orgasms then, so yeah, it wasn't a big deal. I'm not sure about percentages, but at least two women I know have experienced it (and/or huge ass emotional mood swings where they'd burst into tears randomly, etc).

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 5:38 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 5:24:49 PM

my views are that a woman shouldn't be able to have an abortion unless the father consents. However, she should be allowed to keep the child even if the father wants an abortion.

If one parent wants the kid alive, then no abortion and they both have to share the responsibility of the kid.

If you have sex, theres a chance you can get someone pregnant, condom breaks, pill doesn't work, you pulled out too late, whatever....don't have sex unless you realize that risk and are prepared to live with it.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 5:31 PM. Reason : a]

11/30/2006 5:29:45 PM

Quote :

"I hope I never see the "men have no responsibility whatsoever" people on here complain about never getting any. "

if you are talking about what to do in the event of pregnancy with every girl you sleep with im probably having waay more sex than you

Quote :

"but who's having the kid? i really think women should have the right to keep the kid or not, and not men cause they're the one who have to carry the baby. so i'll give them that credit."

i agree that women should have the right to keep the kid or not, same as the father should have the right to walk away or not

if you get pregnant, and the father says fuck that, and you still have the baby thats on you. the guy shouldnt be forced to pay child support every month. and if you miss child support you go to jail, but the child support doesnt stop so after you get out of jail where you havent been working you have this huge debt that you are completely incapable of paying. its bananas man, bananas.

Quote :

"2. She says she wants a kid even if you don't want one (ie you're just donating sperm)"

donating sperm isnt the only way that scenario happens. in fact of the times that scenario happens donating sperm is rarely the reason.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 5:38 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 5:35:53 PM

Right, so we're all vindictive bitches out for your sperm.

You're acting like an abortion is such a quick and painless process that you're divorced of any responsibility at all.

Sometimes we don't have a choice if we get pregnant or not. You're creating a double standard by saying "well they should just keep their legs closed" and then saying a man has a right to walk away from any baby he may have created in the same fucking act. We have to make a very important moral decision if we get pregnant and you seem to be ignoring that fact.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 5:47 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 5:42:38 PM

you have a choice to take steps to prevent pregnancy, thats your responsibility as a woman. this can be through abstinance or through birth control. sure birth control sometimes fail but this is not usually how surprise pregnancies happen. and even if it is you have the right to get an abortion or give up the baby via adoption. men not only dont have that right, they are forced to pay child support to the mother. if a mother wants to have a child on her own then let her do it on her own, the father should have an equal right of refusal.

1. Women have the moral right to get abortions on demand… neither the father nor any other person can veto or override a mother’s decision
2. Men and women have equal moral rights and duties

If someone supports a woman's moral right to chose then they should also support a man’s right to refusal. There is currently a prima facie inconsistency that denies men the equal right to escape parenthood, and places unequal burdens and obligations on men. Men should have the same moral rights and duties as women, and should not be subject to any unequal burdens or obligations.



[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 5:53 PM. Reason : ,]

11/30/2006 5:49:07 PM

well until the law changes

don't have sex unless you're willing to take that chance.

11/30/2006 5:56:02 PM

.


[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 6:06 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 5:58:23 PM

or wear a rubber

11/30/2006 6:26:21 PM

Quote :

"oh boy now i can fake it!!!1"

haha.

11/30/2006 7:12:01 PM

Guth is knocking this out of the park

BUT BUT BUT

shut up

you're wrong

Guth is right

11/30/2006 7:33:06 PM

Men will probably never have the right of refusal and the laws are definately not going to be changing anytime soon. Men are seen as the ones who must take care of the family, so you must take responsibility for your child. It's been that way forever.

11/30/2006 7:56:04 PM

Quote :

"sure birth control sometimes fail but this is not usually how surprise pregnancies happen"

What?

Quote :

" Contraceptive failure is a significant cause of accidental pregnancy. Anne Fleissig found that over two thirds (69 per cent) of the women in her study who had become unintentionally pregnant claimed to have been using a method of contraception at the time they conceived. Other research has shown similar results. A study of 769 women requesting abortion in the NHS, conducted by David Bromham, chair of the faculty of Family Planning and Reproductive Health care of the Royal College of Obstetrician and Gynaecologists found that 68 per cent had conceived as a result of a failure of contraceptive method. A previous study, published in the British Journal of Family Planning, found that of 1 020 women referred for abortions, a fifth claimed to have been using the pill, one of the methods commonly regarded as the most effective. "

Are you seriously under the opinion that women should support unexpected children alone? What about women who can't afford abortions?

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 8:05 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 8:01:37 PM

Is it the 100% best way morally? no
Are men expected to help raise the child regardless if he wants it? Yes

but for everyone saying "Oh she should of got an abortion, I'm not paying child support"....Shut up, man the fuck up and support your damn kid.

11/30/2006 8:04:36 PM

^^ one of the awesome things about my position is that if i was wrong about that it doesnt make me less right

also its silly to assume that a father will support the child when contraceptive measures fail. not only is he not entering into anykind of agreement or contract for support but he is activily taking steps to show that he doesnt want a child. he may still want to support the child, but assuming he does is even more silly than normal.

^im not encouraging anyone to abandon their children, in fact i would encourage men to stay and support their children. but he has no moral obligation to, there should be no mandate for support. if the father wants to leave he has that right of refusal.



or we could just establish that men and women arent equal, and that women benefit from the unequal burden placed on men and just call it a day

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 8:18 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 8:15:04 PM

everyone knows contraceptives are not 100%...and your logic doesn't make a sense.

If I take a revolver and take out all the bullets and fire it at you and I kill you..did I commit murder? I actively took steps prevent it.

11/30/2006 8:19:54 PM

but if i pointed it in another direction and then the bullet turned and hit you and then it went to mcdonalds and bought something would is still be murder

see i can make jesus fucking christ stupid analogies too

11/30/2006 8:28:23 PM

No contraceptive is 100%...everyone knows this.
There is always a chance the girl can get pregnant.
Unless the girl says she's ok with abortion before you fuck her, the guy has no right to bitch

Even though I fully support prochoice (under most circumstances) abortions will always be more harmful on the woman. A guy can shrug it off and say "go get an abortion" and two weeks later he forgets the entire incident is screwing some other chick. A woman has to go through with it, she can't easily forget it.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 8:43 PM. Reason : a]

11/30/2006 8:39:44 PM

You know what will solve this problem?

Don't have sex till you're married!

11/30/2006 8:45:37 PM

Yeah that's a great fucking idea

11/30/2006 9:01:45 PM

Quote :

" Even though I fully support prochoice (under most circumstances) abortions will always be more harmful on the woman. A guy can shrug it off and say "go get an abortion" and two weeks later he forgets the entire incident is screwing some other chick. A woman has to go through with it, she can't easily forget it."

That's why it seems wrong to me. It enables men to continually have the possibility of fucking and impregnating women without responsibility when the woman has to undergo an abortion (and a lot of emotional turmoil over such a thing most often- depression is common).

11/30/2006 9:45:36 PM

yo i've only read a few posts...i mean i'm all for a pill that helps me not get some broad preggers...but whats this no money shot thing?

11/30/2006 9:51:31 PM

wow... I bet you'd be blasting enormous loads if you used this enough (when you abstained, that is)

^^ did you mean to say "responsibility"

are you sure you didn't mean "punishment"?


[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 7:22 AM. Reason : -]

12/1/2006 7:20:35 AM

Yes, I'm sure I meant "responsibility." Guys just want to get off the hook for fucking while telling women they shouldn't have sex if they don't want a baby, and that's ridiculous.

12/1/2006 8:16:19 AM

Quote :

" Guys just want to get off the hook for fucking while telling women they shouldn't have sex if they don't want a baby, and that's ridiculous awesome. "

12/1/2006 8:26:22 AM

you are missing the point. Everyone knows how it is now. . . you have sex, both parties contribute to the pregnancy equally and thus are responsible. Everything after the initial act is the woman's choice alone.

The point is that once the woman finds out she is pregnant, 1 of a couple of things can happen.
1. Both parties want the baby - no problems here
2. Both parties don't want the baby - no problems here
3. The woman wants the baby and the man doesn't - she keeps it and the man has to pay child support against his will for 18 years
4. The woman doesn't want the baby but the man does - the woman gets rid of the baby

2 out of 4 of the cases just throw out the mans opinion and rights which seems rather strange considering how women are always arguing that they want to be treated as equals to men. I can understand the case for #4 as it is the woman that would have to go through pregnancy and all, but #3 is completely bogus as it is 18 years of the mans life that he has to deal with the child. If the woman gets pregnant and the man tells her upfront that he doesn't want the kid, then it should be that the woman knows if she goes through with having the baby that she will have to support it.

Quote :

"Yes, I'm sure I meant "responsibility." Guys just want to get off the hook for fucking while telling women they shouldn't have sex if they don't want a baby, and that's ridiculous."

So it's not fair that a guy can do whatever and a woman has to be cautious? Blame that one on nature . . . because as long as women want control over what happens to their body, then the ultimate responsibility resides with them

12/1/2006 9:10:07 AM

You're arguing for equality then saying "nature's unfair, suck it up." Here, men and women can't share the same responsibility of carrying an unborn child, so no, I don't think there has to be an equal agreement with regards to "men's rights" here. It all falls on us and you're fucking right we should have help for something that's also half your fault.

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 9:16 AM. Reason : .]

12/1/2006 9:13:10 AM

Quote :

"Are you seriously under the opinion that women should support unexpected children alone? What about women who can't afford abortions?"

What about men who can't afford a child? And don't say then they should use restraint or be more cautious because that road goes both ways. Either way, in the long run, the abortion would be less costly for those families that 'can't afford'.- thats a dumb argument.

Quote :

"Yes, I realize condoms are the standard male contraception, etc. I'm not debating they have other options, too. But you guys are being stupid fucks if you're saying you give up all responsibility by trying to use a condom. Sometimes they break- then what? Dump it on the dumb bitch for having sex and "it's not my problem"? Fuck you."

Quote :

"It wouldn't be so awful for you to take an equal responsibility to protect yourself from making a baby too. "

First off, you've come off so aggressive towards me. I have never uttered a harsh word to you, yet you call me a duche and have given me the ever so kind "fuck you". Nice, your attacking recourse is evident of a weak mind. That being said, I never said that guys give up all responsibility by using a condom- in fact I don't even know where you got that from. You made the statement that guys are need to take some responsibility, and implied as if it isn't happening now and that the male pill should be the method. I responded with a method in which guys do take responsibility--a condom--then I stated if you're allowing a guy not to take that responsibility or requesting that he does not, then in that case the consequences are on you. If a man uses a condom, and you don't use the pill and the condom breaks then yes, its still on you. Both parties should be using contraceptives. For future reference, reading comprehension helps.

Quote :

"Dump it on the dumb bitch for having sex and "it's not my problem"? Fuck you.""

Also, you're not 'dumping it on the dumb bitch' you are acting on an equal right of refusal. If you believe in abortion as an option, then it is entirely hypocritical to say that the man has no rights to refusal as well. If I want the child, the woman can abort it at any given moment without my consent, despite how badly I may want the child. If the situation is reversed and the man doens't want it and the woman does then he should have those same rights. Its not a hard concept. If you want equality, accept it when it doesn't go your way as well.

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 9:25 AM. Reason : .]

12/1/2006 9:18:36 AM

Quote :

"What about men who can't afford a child? And don't say then they should use restraint or be more cautious because that road goes both ways. Either way, in the long run, the abortion would be less costly for those families that 'can't afford'.- thats a dumb argument."

And don't say they should use restraint?! Yes, the road goes both ways, including here! Think of that, maybe instead of calling women sluts and telling them to close their legs, you guys should stop fucking everything that moves! How novel! Yes, I know it would be less costly in the long run, but if you're too poor to muster a couple hundred dollars, you're fucked.

I'm not mad at you, just everyone in this thread who wants to dump a child on some poor woman who can't afford to get an abortion because "it's her problem now."

Quote :

"if you're allowing a guy not to take that responsibility or requesting that he does not, then in that case the consequences are on you."

We're talking about unexpected pregnancy here, not planned on her own account. Seriously, do you guys honestly expect women to steal your sperm without telling you? Then of course it's her own doing and she knows she's raising a child herself. I'm talking about accidents here.

Quote :

"Also, you're not 'dumping it on the dumb bitch' you are acting on an equal right of refusal. If you believe in abortion as an option, then it is entirely hypocritical to say that the man has no rights to refusal as well. If I want the child, the woman can abort it at any given moment without my consent, despite how badly I may want the child. If the situation is reversed and the man doens't want it and the woman does then he should have those same rights. Its not a hard concept. If you want equality, accept it when it doesn't go your way as well."

Abortion is not an option for everyone. And you didn't read what I said earlier- since a woman is solely responsible for carrying a baby, nature isn't being equal or "fair" here and neither should I with regards to equality in supporting the child. "If I want the child, the woman can abort it at any given moment without my consent, despite how badly I may want the child." rarely happens, and you know that as well as I do. So all I can see with this "equal refusal" argument is that guys just want any excuse to not deal with the consequences of having sex.

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 9:33 AM. Reason : .]

12/1/2006 9:23:20 AM

Quote :

""if you're allowing a guy not to take that responsibility or requesting that he does not, then in that case the consequences are on you.""

What I was saying in that statement was refering to accidents. If you are on the pill and say that you don't want him to use a condom because you like it better that way--which i've had happen--then when you get pregnant that still counts as an accident because you were on the pill and you requested there be no back up protection. Sure, you could say he acknowledged the dangers as well by not insisting that one be used, but the woman knows that a choice involving her body will come up, and only she knows if thats a decision she'll be able to live with, and that is what makes it her responsibility if she has the kid or not. The man in that situation has no clue if her intentions would be to keep a child or not. The same holds true if you don't ask a man to use a condom if hes clearly planning not to use one. If you ask, and he says no then send him the hell on, because he is a duche with no regard to your personal feelings.

But on a much lighter note, if anything ever happens between you and i, i'll take the pill.

Quote :

"Abortion is not an option for everyone. And you didn't read what I said earlier- since a woman is solely responsible for carrying a baby, nature isn't being equal or "fair" here and neither should I with regards to equality in supporting the child."

Yeah i did, but it was typed as I was writing my post and I didnt see it until later. But you can't use that argument, because that leads into a whole series of well if men and women aren't equal according to nature, and if those rights shouldn't be equal based on that notion, then what other rights can be different based on men and women not being equal by nature? Jobs, voting driving...? No one wants that.

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 9:35 AM. Reason : .]

12/1/2006 9:32:05 AM

Quote :

"Yeah i did, but it was typed as I was writing my post and I didnt see it until later. But you can't use that argument, because that leads into a whole series of well if men and women aren't equal according to nature, and if those rights shouldn't be equal based on that notion, then what other rights can be different based on men and women not being equal by nature? Jobs, voting driving...? No one wants that."

Driving, voting and performing jobs have nothing to do with nature, since either gender can do any of those jobs. Carrying a baby is different because it can only fall on one gender. I didn't mean nature as "women are soft" so let's give them easy jobs bullshit, I meant with regards to this reproductive cycle where women are biologically the only ones who can carry the baby.

And the problem seems to be that if both people are using contraceptives, it's not okay for a woman to have any moral objections about abortion (if the guy wants to get rid of the child- I think it's simple to say "well she either gets rid of it or she doesn't!" when it's more complicated). If she's religious and has decided she'd never have an abortion if it came up and you just walk out, it's also very one-sided. Abortions are serious matters, not to be used for your refusal of unborn children.

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 9:43 AM. Reason : .]

12/1/2006 9:39:07 AM

Quote :

"You're arguing for equality then saying "nature's unfair, suck it up." Here, men and women can't share the same responsibility of carrying an unborn child, so no, I don't think there has to be an equal agreement with regards to "men's rights" here. It all falls on us and you're fucking right we should have help for something that's also half your fault."

you're absolutely right that it is half the man's fault and half the woman's fault. So the ultimate decision should be equally weighted among the two. But it is the woman that has to carry the child, so I would say that it lies on the woman more than the man to be responsible for prevention. If a woman does not want to subject her body to being pregnantand is that opposed to an abortion, then she seriously needs to weigh the choice of having sex in the first place.

Quote :

""If I want the child, the woman can abort it at any given moment without my consent, despite how badly I may want the child." rarely happens, and you know that as well as I do. So all I can see with this "equal refusal" argument is that guys just want any excuse to not deal with the consequences of having sex."

what is your basis for this statement? that it's not all over jerry springer? Sure it might not be as common as the woman wanting it and the man not, but it does happen.

and to be clear, I'm not talking about the guys that go around screwing everythign that moves and has gotten 10 women pregnant and doesn't pay any child support. I am talking about upstanding men who have 1 partner (lets just say she is his gf) and she get's pregnant and one of them doesn't want to have the baby.

Quote :

"Driving, voting and performing jobs have nothing to do with nature, since either gender can do any of those jobs."

I beg to differ, there are some jobs that the average woman physically isn't able to perform.


Now you are making this discussion about abortion, which it is not about at all. Not keeping the child doesn't necessarily mean abortion. She could have the child and give it up for adoption . . . there are plenty of people that are unable to have kids that would gladly adopt.


[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 1:06 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2006 12:47:37 PM

^ how can you argue that there are jobs that shouldn't be equal, but the decision of an abortion should be. You just killled your own argument there.
And the decision to abort has to be equal, yet it's the WOMAN's problem to deal with prevention? What? fuck no! It's either EQUAL before and after, or it's NOT. If you're going to say it's the woman's issue to deal with prevention, then it's the womans RIGHT to override the guy later.

Now, if you want to say that the responsibility is equal for prevention, and want equality in abortion, i dont think it'll happen but i'll respect it as a valid argument.

Either accept physical differences (with respect to jobs and abortion) or dont for either.

And your answer- dont have sex, well gee, that's cute. Somehow I see that working out really well. Practicality anyone please? I dont see guys who dont want responsibilities saying I wont have sex at all (some do, but it's not across the board).

As far as keeping vs. having the kid- the issue is this- giving the kid up for adoption still winds up with you having to carry, deal with, have, and then give away the child. There are a lot of women that can't deal with that, and dont want to. It still winds up with them dealing with a lot of responsibility.

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 1:13 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2006 1:11:21 PM

^I'm not saying that the job's shouldn't be equal. A woman can be given the opportunity to try the job, I'm just saying the job would be beyond the limitations of most women.

That is what I am saying, the woman wants the right to override the guy, so it is more her responsibility for prevention. Otherwise, if you are saying that it is equal prevention then it should be equal choice.

And I didn't say not having sex was the solution for everyone. I said if you are that opposed to having a child and opposed to abortion. No sex is the only 100% way.

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 1:30 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2006 1:25:29 PM

^ gotcha

I'm all for women's equality, but I will happily say there are things women are more physically limited than guys in, and dont see an issue when more guys are chosen for those things.

I think that women bear a lot of biological responsibility with kids, and should have the right to override the guy. But on the same token- she does need to ensure she does everything to make sure she doesnt have one. That doesnt absolve the guy of all responsibility of course though.

As far as when the woman wants the kid and the guy doesnt and child support issues- I think that's more complex. I think the woman still has the right to override the guy and keep the kid, but as far as the financial and legal responsibility afterwards, that's a little more complicated, and unfortunately putting "situation specific" laws doesnt really work. (I think in some situations the guy needs to pay up, in others, no, but like i said, complicated).

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 1:30 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 1, 2006 at 1:30 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2006 1:29:57 PM