deux

12/29/2006 6:09:32 PM

i wasnt referring to bush specifically. people were talking about the texans drafting adrian peterson next year.

I dont like the idea of drafting RB's high.

Look at all how poorly Cadillac, Ronnie Brown, and Cedric Benson turned out. All top 5 picks, none of them are producing at a high level after two seasons.

If you NEED an RB like the Panthers, Patriots, and Colts did then adding Williams, Maroney, and Addai in the late first round is a fine strategy.

If you NEED RB depth like the Falcons and Jaguars did then you can still get Norwood or Jones-Drew outside of the first round.


If you'll remember i never argued against selecting Mario Williams over Reggie Bush from a FOOTBALL STANDPOINT. My argument was that Reggie Bush will be an outstanding NFL player. Which i do believe he is still on the path to become after a fine rookie season. I thought very highly of Leinart after seeing the NC last year and obviously i love Vince Young because i recognize how effective a rushing QB can be.

I do think from a business/fan standpoint the Texans botched the Williams pick. If Williams goes on to become the next Strahan/Peppers then terrific. But I really just dont think its worth the risk of completely alienating a franchise from its fan base. It already cost the GM his job for gods sake.

If you select Mario Williams over less glamorous positions like OT (Robert Gallery), TE (Kellen Winslow), or relative unknown QB's (Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, etc) thats one thing.

But when you select Mario Williams over well known potential franchise QB's (Leinart & Young) and a media sensation dynamic player like Reggie Bush, you better be fucking right.

And as of right now I dont think the Texans made the right decision.


You dont pass up a franchise center like Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, Oden, when you get the opportunity under any circumstance. Just like you dont pass up a franchise QB.

12/29/2006 7:42:44 PM

I thought Rick Smith was already arranged to take over the GM position for the Texans...?

12/29/2006 7:56:13 PM

^^ I actually agree with Rally here





Except I still don't agree that picking Bush over Williams would have been a good idea, even if it did generate more ticket sales this season.

Nothing generates more ticket sales than winning.

12/29/2006 10:16:29 PM

hate to say it

but I just saw on NFL Live the Defensive Rookie of the Year was Mario's 2nd round defensive teammate (forgot the name) instead of Mario

1/3/2007 4:28:52 PM

why do you hate to say ? ryans played great all season

1/3/2007 4:31:37 PM

nah not dissin' ryan

just wish Mario would've dominated

1/3/2007 4:32:24 PM

Ryans was 2nd round, eh? 1 whole round past Mario? Damn...thats almost like a 7th round WR/TE out of Hofstra outshining a 1st round running back out of USC...

1/3/2007 4:33:25 PM

rally, you also think Vick is a good QB. why should anyone care what you're fried mind thinks?

1/3/2007 4:34:55 PM

he is a good QB.


He's going to thrive under a new system thats better suited to his strengths.


Its just funny that no one argues the effectiveness of Vince Young... but they hate on Vick

1/3/2007 4:52:07 PM

[for now]

1/3/2007 4:54:03 PM

^^probably because Vince Young:

- WON a college national championship
- WON 6 of his last 7 games (though during the early season losses, he wasnt even playing)
- Led his team to A BETTER RECORD THAN THE FALCONS
- Is NOT nicknamed "Coach Killer"
- Has yet to flip off the home crowd
- has less offensive weapons than Atlanta and still finished with a better record
- ETC
- ETC
- ETC

1/3/2007 5:34:05 PM

^ And won Offensive Rookie of the Year
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/20070103-1048-fbn-nfloffensiverookie.html

1/3/2007 5:40:24 PM

Colston got HOSED.

1/3/2007 5:45:02 PM

that 7th round pick out of hofstra didn't outshine that rb out of usc towards the end of the year dude.

1/3/2007 7:03:33 PM

Mario who??

Isn't he the guy they are always making fun of on PTI?

1/3/2007 7:05:02 PM

^^you mean when Colston was injured?

face it...Colston had a better year than Bush

1/3/2007 7:07:20 PM

Come on Tree you cannot say that Vick wasn't as good or better than Vince in college.

Virginia Tech was still unknown on the national level and he took them to the NC game. Young had a whole lot more talent than Vick. Also Vick had better numbers than Vince this year so how is he better?

1/3/2007 8:36:46 PM

^ exactly

1/3/2007 9:07:34 PM

^^good point

1/3/2007 9:37:20 PM

Young was better in the clutch and he did more with less talent around him.

1/3/2007 10:01:16 PM

Young won a title

Vick lost the title game

Please argue that

One's more of a winner than the other

1/4/2007 3:21:22 AM

Westward leading, still proceeding.

1/4/2007 3:23:05 AM

Quote :

"Young was better in the clutch and he did more with less talent around him."

Young with less talent than Vick in college?

Are you high?

1/4/2007 7:36:07 AM

^who said anything about college?

Quote :

"Also Vick had better numbers than Vince this year so how is he better?"

wtf are you talking about?

1/4/2007 10:02:12 AM

To play devil's advocate here: Vick did lead them to the conference championship game without much talent around him.


Back to my normal point of view: it's too bad he hasn't done crap since.

1/4/2007 10:47:40 AM

Quote :

"^who said anything about college?"

Well, I assumed considering the 3 posts before that were about Vick vs. Young in college

1/4/2007 12:52:00 PM

well Vince had more around him at Texas but Vick has more around him in Atlanta than Young does in Tennessee

All the Vickriders are just so upset that Vince in LESS THAN A FULL SEASON has already progressed more than Vick in 5 years or however many he's been in the league

Also Vince WON A TITLE...cant overstate that...and on top of that, he beat a better USC team than the FSU team Vick LOST TO...Vick lost to fucking CHRIS WEINKE for Christ's sake, Vince beat Reggie, Leinhart, etc

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 12:57 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2007 12:55:23 PM

I hate Vick....he's one of the most overrated NFL players in the country, but the post above was about comparing Young to Vick in college.

IMO, Vick was a much better college player....and he had much much crappier talent than Young did at Texas. Young looks like he's going to turn out better than Vick in the pros, but that's really not much of an accomplishment.

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 12:58 PM. Reason : ]

1/4/2007 12:58:12 PM

was vick a better college player? probably...a MUCH better college player? hell no...are any college players "much better" than vince young was? maybe archie griffin?

i dunno, semantics is semantics...i hate vick too and won a lot of money off vince's college game

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 1:01 PM. Reason : b]

1/4/2007 1:00:59 PM

There are plenty of players who were better throughout college than VY. He had ONE great year. Hell even at the beginning of that year people were still wondering if he'd ever mature into a QB.

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 1:05 PM. Reason : leinart had a better college career imo.. so did bush..]

1/4/2007 1:03:27 PM

those people were obviously wrong

shit his fucking record as a starter was 30-2

i repeat

VINCE YOUNG'S RECORD AS A STARTER IN COLLEGE WAS 30-2

and so what he had "one great year"...he only started 2 and a half years

oh look whats this

Quote :

"Vince Young is the first and only player in NCAA I-A history to pass for 3,000 yards and rush for 1,000 yards in the same season. No other player has even reached the 2,500/1,000 mark in a season. "

not even vick? what??

Quote :

"His (Young's) .938 winning percentage as a starting quarterback ranks sixth best in NCAA Division I football history. "

VICK JUST WINS GAMES!!!1111

Quote :

"Young set the UT single-game pass completion percentage record against Oklahoma State in 2004 by completing 18 of 21 passes (85.7%). He broke his own record by completing 25 of 29 passes (86.2%) against Colorado in 2005."

well at least we already know Vick cant pass

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 1:10 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2007 1:06:03 PM

Leinart was 37-2 as a starter.

I'm just saying it's a lofty assumption to call VY one of the best college players ever when in reality he had one and a half great seasons (i'll give him the end of the Rose Bowl over Michigan year).

Personally I still feel Leinart had a better college career.

----

Did Vick have receivers as good as Texas? Just out of curiosity. I can't remember much about Vick's VT teams. In any case, they were comparable college QBs and thus far are comparable pro QBs.

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 1:12 PM. Reason : x]

1/4/2007 1:11:56 PM

i'm not arguing that leinhart had a better career

i AM STRONGLY arguing that Vick did NOT have as good a college career

leinhart's numbers are freakish

Young's numbers were better than Vick's

and i'm not necessarily calling young one of the greatest college players ever, although he had one of the greatests single seasons ever, but Pack was calling Vick "a much better college player"

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 1:13 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2007 1:12:56 PM

Quote :

"i AM STRONGLY arguing that Vick did NOT have as good a college career"

Then you are STRONGLY incorrect. In college Vick>>>Young.

How many NFL players from Vick's team are in the NFL?

1/4/2007 1:41:41 PM

i don't think anyone would agree that mario should've been a #1 pick. i honestly was suprised when i heard the news about him signing the night before the draft. i expected mario to fall somewhere in the middle of the 1st round. however, the texans signing/drafting mario made more sense than drafting reggie bush.

i never even considered bush a top 5 prospect, or perhaps even top 10, heading into the draft. i was never sold on his hype. his hype now is even more ridiculous than it ever was before. i can't believe how hard espn was campaigning for bush to win oroy. i find it reassuring that marcus mcneill (san diego's left tackle) received more first place votes than reggie bush did.

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 1:50 PM. Reason : ]

1/4/2007 1:48:18 PM

Vince Young had a better record in college and he had better statistics

So I don't understand how Vick>>>Young at ANY level?

Young's college stats > Vick's college stats

Young's record > Vick's record

???????????????????????????????

You can claim VT wasnt as good as Texas...probably because VT had Vick and Texas had Young

ps Shane Graham is in the NFL...how many players from VY's team are in the NFL?

1/4/2007 1:48:54 PM

Quote :

"ps Shane Graham is in the NFL...how many players from VY's team are in the NFL?"

I know that they had 2 players go in the top 10 last year, I don't know how many others.

1/4/2007 1:57:54 PM

The damn kicker is the only one from Tech that you can come up with? He really helped.

1/4/2007 1:58:45 PM

I think we can agree that they are very similar players.

They are guys who can beat you without putting up great stats, and they are guys who can lose a game with stupid throws or by trying to do too much.

Neither one will last 10 seasons as a starter in the NFL.

1/4/2007 2:00:16 PM

i read that as Big Buddy

haha, i thought he was volunteering or something

1/4/2007 2:00:53 PM

Quote :

"I know that they had 2 players go in the top 10 last year, I don't know how many others. "

you're counting Young as one of Young's teammates?

look...you could argue that Peyton is better than Brady because Peyton puts up better numbers...you could argue that Brady is better than Peyton because Brady has titles

But Young has titles and better numbers than Vick...so I'm still not sure how Vick is better...

and Graham was the only one I could recall without looking at their rosters...however how many players on that FSU team played in the NFL? Weinke, Warrick...any others? And how many USC players are already in the NFL from the team that Young beat? half a dozen?

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 2:07 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2007 2:06:37 PM

Texas has 5 players in the NFL from last years draft and another 5 from the previous draft OTHER than Young. Virginia Tech has 6 other players who played at one time with Vick (2 of them only were on the team for Vick's last year) who are currently in the NFL.

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 2:16 PM. Reason : including graham]

1/4/2007 2:15:48 PM

This VY vs MV discussion is really pretty ridiculous.

1/4/2007 2:29:03 PM

Quote :

"i never even considered bush a top 5 prospect, or perhaps even top 10, heading into the draft. i was never sold on his hype. his hype now is even more ridiculous than it ever was before. i can't believe how hard espn was campaigning for bush to win oroy. i find it reassuring that marcus mcneill (san diego's left tackle) received more first place votes than reggie bush did."

that hype began on november 20, 2005 (day after fresno game)

they'll probably hype him up to be mvp next season

1/4/2007 2:42:50 PM

^ that isn't true. The hype began when he made one of the best defenses in country Virginia Tech, look like 4th grade school girls tripping over themselves every time he touched the ball in 2004.

Again, I don't understand why people are so concerned about who gets hype. It's pretty obvious Bush is going to be a pretty damn good pro player. Maybe not as a traditional, pound it up the middle, runningback... but has a player.

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 2:51 PM. Reason : x]

1/4/2007 2:49:57 PM

Bush can't sniff LT's jock (not that anybody can, but Bush sure as hell cant)

Quote :

"Again, I don't understand why people are so concerned about who gets hype"

not necessarily concern, but you cant help but notice it...more than notice it, if you watch tv you cant help but become completely inundated with a bunch of peoples predictions, which is all hype is

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 2:53 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2007 2:52:23 PM

ok?

Um, let me try and throw out one liners that have nothing to do with the thread..

Um... lets see.

Leon Washington is no Barry Sanders!

^ I know what you mean. I see how it can be annoying but it's not like I was thinking JJ Redick was going to be putting up Gilbert Arenas type numbers coming into the league. If I bought into hype the last 2 years I sure would though..

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 2:54 PM. Reason : x]

1/4/2007 2:53:32 PM

but Bush is the best college player ever and is just as good as Barry Sanders and Gale Sayers and Payton and Brown? i mean, thats all i was told for the past 3 years so it must be true

ps most of the thread has nothing to do with the thread

^you see the end of that Wizards game last night? wow

[Edited on January 4, 2007 at 2:56 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2007 2:54:25 PM

Vince Young will be a better QB than Vick because Norm Chow

1/4/2007 3:09:23 PM