Dirty Greek ~The fact that you were once "somewhat Christian" implies a certain level of ingnorance on your side. Its like being "somewhat pregnant".... there just is no such thing. You were never Christian if you never had a personal relationship with Christ. Going through the motions of going to church does not mean you are Christian. IF you had ever had a relationship with God, then you would not be able to say that there was no such thing as God.

I am not judging, I am just pointing out the truths.



On another note, I understand that not everyone is Christian; however, we will never have a God-less country. Religion is an important aspect of a society. There are pictures of Moses in the government buildings in DC... there are bibles in the cornerstones of two of those buildings.... and the ten commandments are also posted in congress. The fact is, this country was founded on Christian beliefs and they are held with a certain amount of respect. As far as Thomas Jefferson even making a statement about the separation of church and state........IF you read it in context, you will find that he is specifically speaking on the terms of tax supported churched and governmental repremand for belief or not belief in the church.

I myself am a Christian..... and no matter how much people rant and rave about "stupid" Christians, you will not change my mind or my opinion. Christians should have just as much rights as non believers

3/14/2007 11:17:18 AM

"by Marc Fey
In 1991, President George H. W. Bush appointed Del Tackett — now Focus on the Family Institute President — as the director of technical plans at the White House for the National Security Council. During this time of serving as the White House's liaison to federal agencies, Del often noticed three murals — memorials to America's foundations — in the Capitol's rotunda. The first was the landing of Columbus, the second the Christian baptism of Pocahontas, and the third the Pilgrims as they paused for prayer on their leaky ship Speedwell with the Bible open, eyes uplifted to heaven.

Del saw other signposts of faith: the inscription "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free" above the CIA headquarters, the stone tablet of the Ten Commandments in the Supreme Court and the many Bible verses on the Library of Congress and on the steps of the Washington Monument.

One evening, Del stood in the state dining room in the White House and read the prayer that John Adams had carved into the marble over the fireplace. Everywhere Del looked a story was being told about America's foundation; it was a story he knew but had not heard acknowledged in Washington — an overwhelming testimony to the presence and leadership of Almighty God in the lives of those who founded America.

Del realized the founding men and women knew God was sovereign over all of life. They saw a larger story, understanding that underneath their individual lives was a deeper foundation, a deeper meaning, a deeper purpose. Del thought, These men and women knew God was real. In everything they acknowledged God's influence and involvement.

"My eyes were opened, and I hungered to know what a true Christian worldview was," Del says. "I spent years in biblical study and realized that a biblical worldview applies every aspect of life." He also realized many Christians did not understand this truth."

from http://www.family.org

How can we say that Christian thought had *nothing* to do with the founding of this country. Yes, I do know that these buildings were not created on the day this country was founded; however, it had such an impact that they were integrated into the design

[Edited on March 14, 2007 at 12:45 PM. Reason : asdf]

3/14/2007 12:42:44 PM

Quote :

"Dirty Greek ~The fact that you were once "somewhat Christian" implies a certain level of ingnorance on your side. Its like being "somewhat pregnant".... there just is no such thing. You were never Christian if you never had a personal relationship with Christ. Going through the motions of going to church does not mean you are Christian. IF you had ever had a relationship with God, then you would not be able to say that there was no such thing as God."

I'd say you're exactly right about all of this. However, I was raised in the greek orthodox church, which doesn't so much talk about christianity as a "personal relationship with christ." That kind of lingo is more protestant. Greek orthodoxy is more like catholicism.

Plus, It's difficult to have a relationship with a person/entity who doesn't actually exist. Of course, I don't think christians are stupid, and of course you're right that christians deserve rights.

does anyone say that christian thought had nothing to do with the founding of this country? That would be pure ignorance. It still doesn't make christianity correct, however, nor does it imply that christianity should be in any way considered an official religion or be used to indoctrinate citizens.

[Edited on March 14, 2007 at 12:53 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2007 12:52:43 PM

bttt

3/19/2007 2:14:41 PM

Quote :

"Dirty Greek ~The fact that you were once "somewhat Christian" implies a certain level of ingnorance on your side. Its like being "somewhat pregnant".... there just is no such thing. You were never Christian if you never had a personal relationship with Christ. Going through the motions of going to church does not mean you are Christian. IF you had ever had a relationship with God, then you would not be able to say that there was no such thing as God."

I've always wondered how one has a "personal relationship" with god/ christ.

3/19/2007 2:20:43 PM

delusion

3/19/2007 2:27:54 PM

If everyone else gets crap for their beliefs at some point or another, atheists shouldn't think they are any different.

3/19/2007 5:37:08 PM

bttt

I was hoping for a response from mrfrog.

4/4/2007 4:30:35 PM

oh lord...

Quote :

"Overall, here is an example of what I have against the combination of culture and needing to have something "deep in common" among others: Consider the Germans under the Nazi party. Have you seen videos of the rallies where thousands of people are giving the Hitler salute and shouting "Sieg Heil"? Are they focused on reality or are they being swept up by camaraderie? Camaraderie! Are they concerned with their values or cultural values? Cultural values! Do those values turn out good to them or bad to them? Bad to them! If someone in the crowd were to say, "Wait! These values are not good at all. Racism and socialism are terrible!", would you tell him it's preposterous for him to say that his values are better than society's? Would you tell him it doesn't matter if he doesn't like the culture where he is because he doesn't rule the world? (Whatever that means...) Would you tell him the joys of having traditions and organization? Maybe you would. If he doesn't agree with the crowd and give the salute, he might "feel all cold and alone on the inside.""

my arguments are pro-religion. And yes, camaraderie comes with that. But you can take this same example and turn it around, saying that living by cold hard facts encourages these kinds of atrocities.

How religious or scientific did the Nazi party sell themselves as? Did they not use arguments that supposedly came from new scientific theories like evolution? Eugenics is a pseudo-science, not religion.

There's nothing inherent in this universe that says we should not all kill each other. We have not and will not discover such a thing. Religion does make such statements.

You mentioned "knowing reality" before. The fact is you will never know reality to any appreciable amount. If you demand proof of everything (which is the fundamental idea of atheism) then you can never know absolutely that what the Nazi party did was wrong.

Both sides of WWII were religious. And fighters for the allies gave their lives under the same kind of camaraderie. But the cold war Soviet Union prohibited religion if I remember correctly, we can talk about them if you'd like but I don't think we're going to get anywhere.

So yes, I do find camaraderie connected to religion to be a good thing. No I don't find the camaraderie exhibited in the Nazi party to be a good thing. And we've accomplished nothing in this argument. yay.

4/4/2007 10:12:03 PM

Back to the topic of the video...

This is where my stand on the topic is. Stop whining! The whole point of a democracy is to protect the rights of the MAJORITY of the population. Not a small minority of the population. If you are part of the minority (in this case, atheist) then suck it up.

Example
Pretend the blue and pointy eared people (about 1/4 of the population) wanted to be in line first at every line in the country. Now, the pink and droppy eared people (3/4 of the population) don't agree with that. What do you think will happen? Most likey, the blue and pointy eared people will not get to pass the law that puts them first in line at every line in the country.


That's the whole concept of democracy. You makes laws and/or protect the rights of the majority. Of course, you will have to do things to protect the minority too, but for the most part, the minority will have to adapt and cope. You're never going to please everyone. So as long as you please the majority, the country will be in good shape.

Look at history, it proves that once you try too hard to please the minority, things just don't go so good for a country (i.e. genocides).

In Conclusion
In a democracy, majority wins and minority whines.

4/5/2007 10:07:31 AM

^^You said religion has cultural value. I said culture isn't necessarily valuable. Now you say that bad things can happen with and without religion. How insightful. As far as I'm concerned, the "fundamental idea of atheism" is not to demand proof of everything, but to do the best you can, which involves more thinking than accepting supernatural principles. Both sides of WWII and all other countries are out of touch with reality to various degrees. And if we haven't accomplished anything here, it's because you can't make a coherent point or valid argument.

^Where the hell do you live? The constitution begins with "We the People," not "We the Majority." The purpose of our government is to promote the general Welfare and secure liberty, not to do whatever the majority wants. The country will be in good shape as long as you please the majority? Tell that to Martin Luther King.

4/5/2007 11:09:29 AM

^ We the people = We the majority. We the people != We the 10% (or whatever percentage) of Americans who are Atheists.

My point is, in the video he is complaining about how all these laws require people to believe in God. Well DUH! What does he expect??? If you live in a muslim dominated country, for the most part you will have to abide by muslim influenced laws.

The guy in the video really and honestly has problems with DEMOCRACY, not RELIGION.

[Edited on April 5, 2007 at 1:14 PM. Reason : more clarity]

4/5/2007 12:54:30 PM

Culture has value, you agree but say that not all of it is necessarily valuable. I agree with that, but I'm guessing you're trying to implicate that religion is one of the worst aspects of our society.

So we were whisked away to the Hitler example. Yes, an example of bad culture indeed, but does it help either of our points about religion? The Nazi party had science, politics, religion, all aspects of society helping it in it's vision.

No, I don't think the ideas that brought the Nazi party together are the same ideas that bring people together for Sunday service. I'm in favor of separation of church and state as much as the next guy. My belief is that religion has a place in study of history (obviously) and in the traditions of our nation and even if every single soul on earth stops believing in Jesus or even God, the will to unite under the desire to have a higher purpose to life will remain.

Quote :

"the "fundamental idea of atheism" is not to demand proof of everything, but to do the best you can, which involves more thinking than accepting supernatural principles."

Who told you this crap? Your atheist holy book? Your Godless universe doesn't give a damn weather you sit on your ass all day or save the world.

Sorry, that was unnecessary but I was still compelled to say it.

4/5/2007 1:13:15 PM

Quote :

"My point is, in the video he is complaining about how all these laws require people to believe in God. Well DUH! What does he expect??? If you live in a muslim dominated country, for the most part you will have to abide by muslim influenced laws."

Quote :

"I am your Lord and God You shall have no other gods before Me You shall not make for yourself an idol You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy Honor your parents You shall not murder You shall not commit adultery You shall not steal You shall not bear false witness You shall not covet your neighbor's wife You shall not covet your neighbor's house"

last 5 or 6 of the 10 commandments are pretty universal and reflected in US law. This is why devout Christians have so much confusion about where our laws were made from.

4/5/2007 1:20:01 PM

Yeah, but just because they are written in stone for two religions don't give them the monopoly on what is pretty basic knowlege.

4/5/2007 1:33:38 PM

Quote :

" 1. I'd really rather you didn't act like a sanctimonious holier-than-thou ass when describing my noodly goodness. If some people don't believe in me, that's okay. Really, I'm not that vain. Besides, this isn't about them so don't change the subject. 2. I'd really rather you didn't use my existence as a means to oppress, subjugate, punish, eviscerate, and/or, you know, be mean to others. I don't require sacrifices, and purity is for drinking water, not people. 3. I'd really rather you didn't judge people for the way they look, or how they dress, or the way they talk, or, well, just play nice, Okay? Oh, and get this in your thick heads: woman = person. man = person. Samey = Samey. One is not better than the other, unless we're talking about fashion and I'm sorry, but I gave that to women and some guys who know the difference between teal and fuchsia. 4. I'd really rather you didn't indulge in conduct that offends yourself, or your willing, consenting partner of legal age AND mental maturity. As for anyone who might object, I think the expression is go f*** yourself, unless they find that offensive in which case they can turn off the TV for once and go for a walk for a change. 5. I'd really rather you didn't challenge the bigoted, misogynist, hateful ideas of others on an empty stomach. Eat, then go after the b*******. 6. I'd really rather you didn't build multi million-dollar churches/temples/mosques/shrines to my noodly goodness when the money could be better spent (take your pick): 1. Ending poverty 2. Curing diseases 3. Living in peace, loving with passion, and lowering the cost of cable I might be a complex-carbohydrate omniscient being, but I enjoy the simple things in life. I ought to know. I AM the creator. 7. I'd really rather you didn't go around telling people I talk to you. You're not that interesting. Get over yourself. And I told you to love your fellow man, can't you take a hint? 8. I'd really rather you didn't do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you are into, um, stuff that uses a lot of leather/lubricant/Las Vegas. If the other person is into it, however (pursuant to #4), then have at it, take pictures, and for the love of Mike, wear a CONDOM! honestly, it's a piece of rubber. If I didn't want it to feel good when you did it I would have added spikes, or something. "

4/5/2007 2:21:25 PM

Quote :

"The guy in the video really and honestly has problems with DEMOCRACY, not RELIGION."

It sounds like you have a problem with justice and petitioning the government for a redress of grievances.

Quote :

"Culture has value, you agree but say that not all of it is necessarily valuable. I agree with that, but I'm guessing you're trying to implicate that religion is one of the worst aspects of our society."

My point is, and always has been, that people like to agree with each other, but that doesn't mean they're right about anything. Morality deserves more consideration than going along with the crowd.

Quote :

"Who told you this crap? Your atheist holy book? Your Godless universe doesn't give a damn weather you sit on your ass all day or save the world."

I don't see how the universe can have an opinion. Or how that's even relevant. I said "As far as I'm concerned." And did you just disagree with "doing the best you can"?

4/5/2007 4:54:56 PM

^ I was trying to say that atheism by principal gives no reason to try. at all. Note that I am not an atheist.

And the will of the universe is relevant when DISCUSSING RELIGION.

4/5/2007 5:30:13 PM

Whatever you think you know about atheist principles, you certainly don't know mine. And what does "the will of the universe" even mean?

4/6/2007 1:52:51 AM

Quote :

" I was trying to say that atheism by principal gives no reason to try. at all. "

did you just make that up all on your own? or do you have some sort rationale for this conclusion?

Quote :

"Note that I am not an atheist."

oh really? you don't say.




[Edited on April 6, 2007 at 3:41 AM. Reason : ]

4/6/2007 3:41:11 AM

Quote :

"It sounds like you have a problem with justice and petitioning the government for a redress of grievances."

Nope, I have a problem with people complaining about religion when it's usually not a religion issue at all. In this case, it's a political issue.

And that brings me back to my first point: You can't/won't/will never please everyone in a democracy. If you want to cry about it like a little baby, then go and get your redress of grievances and be done with it. There is nothing gained by pointing fingers and blaming religion.

4/6/2007 6:14:40 AM

Did you sleep through government and history classes? American democracy isn't supposed to "please" at least 51% of the people; it's supposed to keep 100% of them free. Basing laws on oppressive religions doesn't help that.

4/6/2007 12:49:30 PM

Last time I checked Bush beat Gore by only 543 votes in Florida... thus winning him the election. Putting all theory about how our government "should" work on the shelf, you have to realize that laws are made by and for the "majority" of the population. Whether you like it or not the laws made inside a government will always go to benefit the "majority" and always leave the "minority" wanting more.

I don't understand this concept of "oppressive" religions. Last time I heard, you're allowed to believe what you want to believe in America. You just have to return to my above comment and realize that, "the majority vote wins."

Mundane Example
If an atheist went and passed a law that said, "You cannot use the words God/Jesus/Buddah/Mohammad in public." Then wouldn't you think a religious person would say, "That's such an oppressive law." Catch my drift?

4/6/2007 1:44:56 PM

Quote :

"Whatever you think you know about atheist principles, you certainly don't know mine."

Oh noes! I've insulted the principals someone came up with because they were board

Quote :

"Liberal democracy is a representative democracy (with free and fair elections) along with the protection of minorities, the rule of law, a separation of powers, and protection of liberties (thus the name liberal) of speech, assembly, religion, and property. [5] [6] Conversely, an illiberal democracy is one where the protections that form a liberal democracy are either nonexistent, or not enforced. The experience in some post-Soviet states drew attention to the phenomenon, although it is not of recent origin. Napoleon III for example used plebiscites to ratify his imperial decisions."

Yeah, if this doesn't fit the US, then it's probably supposed to...

it probably doesn't

4/6/2007 8:37:36 PM

^^You still don't get it. The Constitution is based on the concept of individual rights, not majority rule.

^You misunderstand and misrepresent my position and make up nonsense about "the will of the universe." I'm not insulted; you should be embarassed.

4/8/2007 9:28:31 PM

I'm fairly sure that we're a democracy run by majority rule, the constitution says a lot of human rights, but that's not going to address atheism rights or Indian-American rights of whatever, just because you have a document that says what should be done doesn't mean it will be done that way. But rights of the majority and minorities shouldn't conflict unless people are trying to impose their will on others because they have power (well, when we're talking minorities based on religion).

And no I'm not embarrassed. But thx for letting me know that I should be, I'll work on it.

4/8/2007 9:58:54 PM

Why don't Athiest care or complain about our time/date system? It's all based off the existence of Christ (BC/AD). I can't believe they leave this aspect out but cry about everything else christ related.

4/9/2007 4:36:56 AM

Quote :

"Oh noes! I've insulted the principals someone came up with because they were board "

sorry, principals are separate from the board. the board is usually elected, but principals are hired to run the site.

but regardless, i'd rather have someone sit down and logically, rationally work through a coherent code of ethics and morality, than just blindly accept a mishmash of sometimes-contradictory and often-nonsensical directives because your mommy and that lady at church told you so.

4/9/2007 4:48:23 AM

Quote :

"Why don't Athiest care or complain about our time/date system? It's all based off the existence of Christ (BC/AD). "

oh, we do care and we did complain. but not just complain, we fixed it. see, we've already won the single point we wanted to make on this issue. Because in all academic and professional historical references, it's now called "BCE" and "CE". Before Common Era, and Common Era.

theres absolutely no point changing the zero point (*), since it's totally arbitrary. The zero point of "Anno Domini" and "Before Christ" is wrong, anyhow. The man, Jesus of Nazareth, if he existed, would have to been born between 4 and 7 BC.

so that issue is long over. we won. if you want evidence that we (**) won, go look up "Conservapedia".

(*) there is no actual year zero

(**) i like to say "we", but I am not an atheist.





[Edited on April 9, 2007 at 5:11 AM. Reason : e before i]

4/9/2007 5:00:09 AM

Quote :

"so that issue is long over. we won."

Congratulations.

4/9/2007 7:56:56 AM

^^ If by "all academic and professional historical references" you mean some, then you are right. No one outside academia uses BCE and BC, and I doubt even a majority of historians use it.

There is no point in changing BC and AD to BCE and BC. How many people know what the abbreviations really mean? Changing the abbreviations is silly and petty, because they are still zeroed around Christ...

[Edited on April 9, 2007 at 8:03 AM. Reason : -]

4/9/2007 8:02:51 AM

Quote :

"I'm fairly sure that we're a democracy run by majority rule"

And I'm fairly sure we're a republic.

Representative republic or constitutional republic or whatever you want to call it, but we by no means live in a democracy.

from wikipedia:

Quote :

"Unlike a pure democracy, in a constitutional republic, citizens are not governed by the majority of the people but by the rule of law.[1]"

mrfrog, you seem to have no fucking clue about our government and you really have nothing intelligent to say on the topic of atheism, so please gtfo

4/9/2007 10:18:14 AM

Quote :

"we by no means live in a democracy"

I remember my confusion when hearing this for the first time from my 7th grade teacher. And again when refuted several times by high school and college teachers.

I KNOW WE'RE A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY. If you want to attach further official Wikipedia labels, then we're a federal constitutional republic. One way or another both Democracy and republic are incomplete descriptors but nonetheless correct in a basic sense.

I was going to stick around just until ppl stopped arguing with me about tangents that came from the atheist rights issue while agreeing with my position on the issue at hand.

but no...

I think i'll stick around now.

Jere has reminded me of why I ever post in the Soap box in the first place.

[Edited on April 9, 2007 at 11:06 AM. Reason : ]

4/9/2007 11:05:34 AM

Back in the 50's, a plane crashed on a pacific Island and was lost. When it was found years later, it was discovered that the primitive natives there had worshiped the airplane as a God.


My point being, that no matter what you believe in, if it makes sense to you, great....but you are no closer to the answers if you stop looking.

4/9/2007 11:27:00 AM

Quote :

""Unlike a pure democracy, in a constitutional republic, citizens are not governed by the majority of the people but by the rule of law.[1]""

Oh, so "by the rule of law"...


...which is made/voted on by the majority of the people. Makes sense to me.

4/9/2007 11:48:11 AM

I am an atheist. There is no reason for it, I simply don't believe in God. I don't use any bullshit reasons like, "If there was a God, my sister wouldn't have died." However, there are a great number of atheists that use this type of "reasoning" or "bargaining" to justify their disbelief in God.

Atheism, for many other "atheists" I've spoken with, appears to not be true belief, but rather a front for a more troubling process in the mind. A person, at some point, must decide whether or not there is a God or not. Stands to reason that some people are still sitting on the fence in that area, but it seems that at least some of those people call themselves atheist. It turns into a search for something that can concretely disprove the existence of God. The atheist "crusade," if you could call it that, is less about proving to other people that there is no God, and more about proving to the atheists themselves that there is no God.

4/9/2007 11:53:13 AM

Quote :

"I KNOW WE'RE A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY. If you want to attach further official Wikipedia labels, then we're a federal constitutional republic. One way or another both Democracy and republic are incomplete descriptors but nonetheless correct in a basic sense."

Don't misidentify our government and then act like you're close enough. Either the majority rules or it doesn't. Here, my rights to free speech, bear arms, vote, etc. can't be removed if a lot of people want them to.

Quote :

"Why don't Athiest care or complain about our time/date system?"

Some do. Not an issue worth fighting to me.

4/9/2007 11:55:27 AM

Quote :

"Don't misidentify our government and then act like you're close enough. Either the majority rules or it doesn't. Here, my rights to free speech, bear arms, vote, etc. can't be removed if a lot of people want them to. "

Thanks. That sums it up I think.

Quote :

"...which is made/voted on by the majority of the people. Makes sense to me. "

When was the last time you voted on a law?


You guys must be living in a different country, honestly.

4/9/2007 12:02:33 PM

Quote :

"When was the last time you voted on a law? You guys must be living in a different country, honestly. "

I'm not sure about you, but we live in the United States of America. In the United States of America, the people vote for representatives to represent them, hence the term "representative" is used. The one with the most (majority) votes wins and gets to represent the people. And then these representatives vote on bills. Which are again voted on to see if they can be passed as laws. Picture for those who have a hard time understanding...






(p.s. Sounds like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. We are straying waaaaaaaaay off topic here.)

4/9/2007 1:23:12 PM

jesus christ...

The reason we're on this subject is because you both seem to think our government is set up so the majority is allowed to shit on everybody else. It doesn't work that way. And this whole line of reasoning is flawed because of your assumption we live in a democracy, even though intelligent people have been telling you otherwise your entire life.

4/9/2007 1:45:45 PM

Quote :

"jesus christ... The reason we're on this subject is because you both seem to think our government is set up so the majority is allowed to shit on everybody else. It doesn't work that way. And this whole line of reasoning is flawed because of your assumption we live in a democracy, even though intelligent people have been telling you otherwise your entire life. "

Mahatma Ghandi...

The reason we're on this subject is because you seem to think our government is set up so the minority should be treated like kings. It doesn't work that way. And this whole line of reasoning is perfectly fine because if you use your brain and a little common sense you know how our government works.

Yes, you have to protect the rights of the minority. But, atheists act like "religion" shoved something up their butts. I'm asian, and just because I like rice, doesn't mean I'm going to petition and pass a law that says you have to serve rice at every school cafeteria in the nation on Tuesdays and Fridays. I agree that there are things we have to change to accomodate, but the points they pointed out in the video (topic of this thread) is just whiny baby stuff.

4/9/2007 2:22:16 PM

Quote :

"The reason we're on this subject is because you seem to think our government is set up so the minority should be treated like kings."

Who said this? What the hell are you talking about?

Quote :

"But, atheists act like "religion" shoved something up their butts."

"One nation under God", teaching intelligent design, stem cell ban, abortion restrictions, right to die restrictions, etc.

4/9/2007 2:30:20 PM

Quote :

"The reason we're on this subject is because you both seem to think our government is set up so the majority is allowed to shit on everybody else."

Who said this? What the hell are you talking about?

Quote :

""One nation under God", teaching intelligent design, stem cell ban, abortion restrictions, right to die restrictions, etc."

- Eighty-seven percent claim to identify with a specific religion, with Christians outnumbering any other faith. Makes sense to me.

- Intelligent design has ALWAYS been taught. The teaching of Evolution was not officially implemented by the government in public schools until the 1950-60's. Research it out.

- Abortion restrictions ... Not all states participate in this. You can always move to a state that is less strict if that's what you want to do.

- Right to die? Wow... I didn't know atheists didn't have morals/values on this subject. You got me on this one.

- Stem cell ban ... this contradicts with your "right to die" issue. You want to research ways to live? But also want to die?

4/9/2007 2:57:21 PM

for one thing, there isn't a stem cell ban that i know of, just a ban on federal money.

also, i respect the right for other people to want to die, just as i would hope people would respect my desire to lvie. i don't really see how you could imagine these two lines of thought would be mutually exclusive.

the whole point is that my morals (nor the morals of others) shouldn't play into laws which affect people who aren't harming anyone else.

4/9/2007 3:04:02 PM

Quote :

""The reason we're on this subject is because you both seem to think our government is set up so the majority is allowed to shit on everybody else." Who said this? What the hell are you talking about?"

Quote :

"The whole point of a democracy is to protect the rights of the MAJORITY of the population. Not a small minority of the population. If you are part of the minority (in this case, atheist) then suck it up."

Quote :

"My point is, in the video he is complaining about how all these laws require people to believe in God. Well DUH! What does he expect???"

4/9/2007 3:30:34 PM

in fact you would think christians wouldn't need these laws, because they could follow through on their morals on their own because they're good christians.

4/9/2007 3:36:38 PM

Quote :

"Why don't Athiest care or complain about our time/date system?"

Here again, in my opinion, is a misunderstanding of what atheism means. You're not troubling me or causing me any harm or doing any injustice to me or my freedoms by arbitrarily measuring time on a fictional man's birth or death. I don't care what the reason for your reference point is, that's the established beginning of the common era, and that's fine. Why would I fight over the name? Same with the "in god we trust" nonsense. Who the hell cares that the dollar bill says "in god we trust?"

Now, the pledge of allegiance, that's another story. You're indoctrinating children with a pledge of ALLEGIANCE in the first place, and there's no place for god being drilled into the minds of children in a public institution.

4/9/2007 7:44:51 PM

Quote :

" - Right to die? Wow... I didn't know atheists didn't have morals/values on this subject. You got me on this one."

lol, awesome.

Hey, how about abortion? is that shoving religion down your throat or are there actually pro-choice Christians and pro-life Atheists?

4/9/2007 7:52:12 PM

God FTW

4/29/2007 9:19:43 PM

But do atheists really care? Do any of us really care?

5/5/2007 5:48:24 PM