Repeating me -- that's brilliant, and flattering.

I agree that prison shouldn't be an option but no, that is not the point. This BS claim is just reinforcing the image of the pro-marijuana camp as being full of hippie creeps who will say the most ridiculous things ever uttered so they can get their bud. Is that accurate? No. But this woman is hurting her cause by doing this. I don't think I was unique in my immediate reaction to this story -- rolling my eyes.

If she and her doctor had left it at, "Marijuana is far and away the most effective treatment," that'd be one thing, but no, they had to get preposterously melodramatic and make it this life-or-death issue, which everybody knows damn well it isn't.

3/15/2007 1:02:04 PM

^^someone has to take the step.....cali can't defend a faceless law, human experience is a must for public opinion.

^ i'm not saying it's life or death, but "the man" has stretched the truth on more than one occasion to push an agenda, so I'm not going to attack this woman for lying to them to push hers

the rape of state power is the most important issue here anyway.

[Edited on March 15, 2007 at 1:05 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2007 1:02:33 PM

I agree with you 100% on your last post GOP.

420, you also have a great point, but a different issue. I would like the govt to let some of these states handle thier own business, and decline them funding when they muck it up. This is another example. Socialized medicine as well, let the states mull around with thier own plans, see what works and what doesnt before we implement a NATIONAL plan.

3/15/2007 1:09:51 PM

Quote :

"someone has to take the step.....cali can't defend a faceless law, human experience is a must for public opinion"

yeah...but thats also what the previous generation was saying in the 60s and 70s when they were so certain it would soon be legalized

the best bet is to keep your shit on the down low...maybe thats more practical than idealistic...but i'm a more practical thinker

3/15/2007 1:11:04 PM

The Supreme Court holding concerning this issue is a grave misinterpretation of the Tenth Amendment.

3/15/2007 1:26:06 PM

people just need to realized that legality does NOT equal morality.

3/19/2007 1:55:17 PM

Obama Administration directs the Feds to back off from intervention contrary to state marijuana laws.

Don't have the details yet, but it seems like a step towards honoring the 10th Amendment. Too bad they'll piss all over it in 50 other ways.

10/25/2009 4:21:02 AM

The inherent interstate/international nature of drug trafficking makes regulating it a Constitutional no-brainer.

10/25/2009 9:01:22 AM

Quote :

"If she owns it [her body], she can put whatever she wants into it as long as she deals with the consequences."

I wish more people could grasp this concept.

10/25/2009 10:39:55 AM

Yes, but we can cut down on the numbers of bad consequences by banning hard drug use. (I don't believe that the sticky icky icky falls into that category though.)

10/25/2009 11:18:06 AM

Yes, and we can also "cut down on the numbers of bad consequences" by banning alcohol. Should we do it? The whole point is that if you sit at home, smoke crack, and don't bother anyone, it shouldn't be illegal. If you smoke crack and then do something crazy, you're held responsible for those actions.

10/25/2009 12:08:15 PM

I used to hold the libertarian position that "it's your body, put what you want into it." But I'm not sure I can get behind legalization and proliferation of opiates.

10/25/2009 12:30:38 PM

I would rather see opiates and amphetamines legalized before marijuana. At least people don't sensationalize their medical benefits while denying they have any negative side effects.

10/25/2009 1:39:16 PM

Even if those side effects arent even on the same scale?

10/25/2009 2:32:47 PM

just because you can't overdose on marijuana doesn't mean it doesn't have serious adverse side effects similar to opiates and amphetamines. Marijuana has serious side effects, both physical and psychiatrical, that always seem to get played off by marijuana users.

10/25/2009 3:58:10 PM

I guess when I compare someone who uses marijuana once a day to someone that uses amphetamines once a day those side effects, while maybe similar, just arent even of the same magnitude

10/25/2009 4:17:32 PM

you think people with ADHD and insomnia that take amphetamines daily look worse off than the average parking lot crowd at a Phish show? maybe you've been smoking so long that it's fucking up your vision.

10/25/2009 4:24:41 PM

Since you were talking about legalization I thought we were talking about recreational users (IE To get High)

Besides the burnt out people at a Phish show have done way more than use marijuana.

10/25/2009 4:41:14 PM

Quote :

"just because you can't overdose on marijuana doesn't mean it doesn't have serious adverse side effects similar to opiates and amphetamines. Marijuana has serious side effects, both physical and psychiatrical, that always seem to get played off by marijuana users."

Don't worry about it, dooood.

10/25/2009 4:41:14 PM

^^non-medically prescribed reasons doesn't imply getting high recreationally. Truckers in the sixties took amphetamines to stay alert while driving, not necessarily to be euphoric. I personally would like the option of being able to take codeine OTC for pain management instead of liver-toxic drugs like acetaminophen. Plenty of other countries allow their residents to do so.

While it may be true that some of the Phish crowd do other drugs, you can't claim that their current state is because of other drugs and not from heavy pot use. Memory loss, paranoia, anxiety, and high blood pressure are all side effects attributed to marijuana use, to name a few. What you said is akin to saying that you can't blame crack babies on their mother's crack cocaine use, because any mother that would smoke crack while they were pregnant most likely continued to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes and weed while they were pregnant too.

10/25/2009 7:19:14 PM

I like how we're using the stereotyped "Phish Crowd" as real evidence of the negative side-effects of marijuana; as if cigarettes, heavy alcohol use and living in a van had nothing to do with it.

10/26/2009 9:42:36 AM

Quote :

"Memory loss, paranoia, anxiety, and high blood pressure are all side effects attributed to marijuana use, to name a few."

you do realize that all of these are temporary and that there is no credible evidence supporting any of these effects are long term.

10/26/2009 11:18:12 AM

memory loss is a long term thing, but nice try. also, underlying neorological disorders triggered by marijauana usage can be permanent as well.

10/26/2009 11:32:39 AM

memory loss isn't a long-term effect of even chronic marijuana use.

It is unfortunate that you are misinformed on this issue.

Here is some easy reading for you on the subject. Perhaps at that point you will be educated on the issue before forming another opinion.

*
Iverson, Leslie. “Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis.” Current Opinion in Pharmacology 5(2005): 69-72.

*

Weiser and Noy. “Interpreting the association between cannabis use and increased risk of schizophrenia.” Dialogues in Clincal Neuroscience 1(2005): 81-85.
*
"Cannabis use will impair but not damage mental health." London Telegraph. 23 January 2006.

*
Andreasson, S. et al. “Cannabis and Schizophrenia: A Longitudinal study of Swedish Conscripts,” The Lancet 2 (1987): 1483-86.

*
Degenhardt, Louisa, Wayne Hall and Michael Lynskey. “Testing hypotheses about the relationship between cannabis use and psychosis,” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 71 (2003): 42-4.

*
Weil, A. “Adverse Reactions to Marijuana: Classification and Suggested Treatment.” New England Journal of Medicine 282 (1970): 997-1000.


*
Heath, R.G., et al. “Cannabis Sativa: Effects on Brain Function and Ultrastructure in Rhesus Monkeys.” Biological Psychiatry 15 (1980): 657-690.

*
Ali, S.F., et al. “Chronic Marijuana Smoke Exposure in the Rhesus Monkey IV: Neurochemical Effects and Comparison to Acute and Chronic Exposure to Delta-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in Rats.” Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior 40 (1991): 677-82.


*
Wetzel, C.D. et al., “Remote Memory During Marijuana Intoxication,” Psychopharmacology 76 (1982): 278-81.

*
Deadwyler, S.A. et al., “The Effects of Delta-9-THC on Mechanisms of Learning and Memory.” Neurobiology of Drug Abuse: Learning and Memory. Ed. L. Erinoff. Rockville, MD: National Institute on Drug Abuse 1990. 79-83.

*
Block, R.I. et al., “Acute Effects of Marijuana on Cognition: Relationships to Chronic Effects and Smoking Techniques.” Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior 43 (1992): 907-917.



[Edited on October 26, 2009 at 11:40 AM. Reason : double sourced]

10/26/2009 11:40:15 AM

Quote :

"Iverson, Leslie. “Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis.” Current Opinion in Pharmacology 5(2005): 69-72. Weiser and Noy. “Interpreting the association between cannabis use and increased risk of schizophrenia.” Dialogues in Clincal Neuroscience 1(2005): 81-85. "Cannabis use will impair but not damage mental health." London Telegraph. 23 January 2006. Andreasson, S. et al. “Cannabis and Schizophrenia: A Longitudinal study of Swedish Conscripts,” The Lancet 2 (1987): 1483-86. Degenhardt, Louisa, Wayne Hall and Michael Lynskey. “Testing hypotheses about the relationship between cannabis use and psychosis,” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 71 (2003): 42-4. Weil, A. “Adverse Reactions to Marijuana: Classification and Suggested Treatment.” New England Journal of Medicine 282 (1970): 997-1000. "

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

nice search job there. Nothing biased about a site that sells "legalize weed" bumper stickers. They do a great job of not handpicking their articles, with a forty year old article, a twenty two year old article, and two opinion columns from five years ago.

how about some articles that were written in the age of computers that aren't dialogue and opinion articles?

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v12/n9/abs/nn.2369.html

Quote :

"Cognitive impairment is one of the most important negative consequences associated with cannabis consumption. We found that CB1 cannabinoid receptor (CB1R) activation transiently modulated the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR)/p70S6K pathway and the protein synthesis machinery in the mouse hippocampus, which correlated with the amnesic properties of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). In addition, non-amnesic doses of either the mTOR blocker rapamycin or the protein synthesis inhibitor anisomycin abrogated the amnesic-like effects of THC, pointing to a mechanism involving new protein synthesis."

10/26/2009 6:43:56 PM

Wait, what were we talking about?

10/26/2009 8:22:52 PM

eleusis bringing the stupid ITT

10/26/2009 8:28:56 PM

at least I'm posting verifiable research, not just a list of shit I copied from some pro-weed site that I've never bothered to read or even verify they exist in the first place.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2834017?dopt=Abstract

Quote :

"Quantitative changes in hippocampal structure following long-term exposure to delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol: possible mediation by glucocorticoid systems. Landfield PW, Cadwallader LB, Vinsant S. Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Bowman Gray School of Medicine, Wake Forest University, Winston-Salem, NC 27103. Although cannabinoids exert strong effects on brain function, there have been no extensive analyses of the long-term effects of cannabinoids on mammalian brain structure. Consequently, we conducted quantitative light and electron microscopic studies on the brains of rats treated chronically with delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) (5 X weekly for 8 months--approximately 30% of the life-span). In these studies, we found significant THC-induced changes in hippocampal structure: specifically, THC-treated animals exhibited decreased neuronal density and increased glial cell reactivity (i.e. an increase of cytoplasmic inclusions). In addition, we confirmed prior reports of THC-induced increases in adrenal-pituitary activity, since both adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) and corticosterone were elevated substantially during an acute stress. However, the animals appeared to be only minimally affected behaviorally by the doses used (highest dose: 8 mg/kg) and no effects of THC were observed on several ultrastructural variables, including synaptic density. The observed hippocampal morphometric effects of chronic THC are similar to apparent glucocorticoid-dependent changes that previously have been found to develop in rat hippocampus during normal aging. Given that cannabinoids and steroids are similar in chemical structure in several respects, therefore, the present results seem to raise the possibility that chronic THC exposure may alter hippocampal anatomical structure by interactions with, or mimicry of, adrenal steroid activity."

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/287/9/1123?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=N.+Solowij&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

Quote :

"Cognitive Functioning of Long-term Heavy Cannabis Users Seeking Treatment Nadia Solowij, PhD; Robert S. Stephens, PhD; Roger A. Roffman, DSW; Thomas Babor, PhD, MPH; Ronald Kadden, PhD; Michael Miller, PhD; Kenneth Christiansen, PsyD; Bonnie McRee, MPH; Janice Vendetti, MPH; for the Marijuana Treatment Project Research Group JAMA. 2002;287:1123-1131. ABSTRACT Context Cognitive impairments are associated with long-term cannabis use, but the parameters of use that contribute to impairments and the nature and endurance of cognitive dysfunction remain uncertain. Objective To examine the effects of duration of cannabis use on specific areas of cognitive functioning among users seeking treatment for cannabis dependence. Design, Setting, and Participants Multisite retrospective cross-sectional neuropsychological study conducted in the United States (Seattle, Wash; Farmington, Conn; and Miami, Fla) between 1997 and 2000 among 102 near-daily cannabis users (51 long-term users: mean, 23.9 years of use; 51 shorter-term users: mean, 10.2 years of use) compared with 33 nonuser controls. Main Outcome Measures Measures from 9 standard neuropsychological tests that assessed attention, memory, and executive functioning, and were administered prior to entry to a treatment program and following a median 17-hour abstinence. Results Long-term cannabis users performed significantly less well than shorter-term users and controls on tests of memory and attention. On the Rey Auditory Verbal Learning Test, long-term users recalled significantly fewer words than either shorter-term users (P = .001) or controls (P = .005); there was no difference between shorter-term users and controls. Long-term users showed impaired learning (P = .007), retention (P = .003), and retrieval (P = .002) compared with controls. Both user groups performed poorly on a time estimation task (P<.001 vs controls). Performance measures often correlated significantly with the duration of cannabis use, being worse with increasing years of use, but were unrelated to withdrawal symptoms and persisted after controlling for recent cannabis use and other drug use. Conclusions These results confirm that long-term heavy cannabis users show impairments in memory and attention that endure beyond the period of intoxication and worsen with increasing years of regular cannabis use. "

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/18/14/5322#B41

Quote :

"Hippocampal Neurotoxicity of 9-Tetrahydrocannabinol Guy Chiu-Kai Chan, Thomas R. Hinds, Soren Impey, and Daniel R. Storm Department of Pharmacology, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington 98195 ABSTRACT Top Abstract Introduction Materials & Methods Results Discussion References Marijuana consumption elicits diverse physiological and psychological effects in humans, including memory loss. Here we report that 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major psychoactive component of marijuana, is toxic for hippocampal neurons. Treatment of cultured neurons or hippocampal slices with THC caused shrinkage of neuronal cell bodies and nuclei as well as genomic DNA strand breaks, hallmarks of neuronal apoptosis. Neuron death induced by THC was inhibited by nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, including indomethacin and aspirin, as well as vitamin E and other antioxidants. Furthermore, treatment of neurons with THC stimulated a significant increase in the release of arachidonic acid. We hypothesize that THC neurotoxicity is attributable to activation of the prostanoid synthesis pathway and generation of free radicals by cyclooxygenase. These data suggest that some of the memory deficits caused by cannabinoids may be caused by THC neurotoxicity. "

http://www.nextbio.com/b/search/article.nb?id=19648913&q0=Rafael%20Maldonado&t0=author

Quote :

"Cannabinoid modulation of hippocampal long-term memory is mediated by mTOR signaling.Emma Puighermanal, Giovanni Marsicano, Arnau Busquets-Garcia, Beat Lutz, Rafael Maldonado, Andrés Ozaita Laboratori de Neurofarmacologia, Facultat de Ciències de la Salut i de la Vida, Universitat Pompeu Fabra, Barcelona, Spain. Nature neuroscience 2009 Sep Cognitive impairment is one of the most important negative consequences associated with cannabis consumption. We found that CB1 cannabinoid receptor (CB1R) activation transiently modulated the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR)/p70S6K pathway and the protein synthesis machinery in the mouse hippocampus, which correlated with the amnesic properties of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). In addition, non-amnesic doses of either the mTOR blocker rapamycin or the protein synthesis inhibitor anisomycin abrogated the amnesic-like effects of THC, pointing to a mechanism involving new protein synthesis. Moreover, using pharmacological and genetic tools, we found that THC long-term memory deficits were mediated by CB1Rs expressed on GABAergic interneurons through a glutamatergic mechanism, as both the amnesic-like effects and p70S6K phosphorylation were reduced in GABA-CB1R knockout mice and by NMDA blockade."

10/26/2009 10:38:02 PM

The thing is no matter what supportive source I find you will attempt to discredit due to its conclusion alone drawing the assumption that the individual who posted the source is pro-marijuana and therefore untrustworthy in their supporting evidence.

There are countless article which suggest marijuana has no lasting impact no the brain and if you choose to discredit all of them based on the conclusion then it would the articles are not what are selectively biased but rather you are.

Quote :

"An international team of investigators from the United Kingdom, Spain, Brazil, Australia, and Switzerland conducted a systematic review of the effects of cannabis on brain structure and function. Authors wrote, “We reviewed literature reporting neuroimaging studies of chronic or acute cannabis use published up until January 2009. … Sixty-six studies were identified, of which 41 met the inclusion criteria. Thirty-three were functional (SPECT/PET/fMRI) and eight structural (volumetric/DTI) imaging studies. … Only three of the structural imaging studies found differences between users and controls.” Investigators concluded, “Minimal evidence of major effects of cannabis on brain structure has been reported,” noting that marijuana users and controls perform similarly on cognitive tasks. According to a 2001 study published in the journal Archives of General Psychiatry, long-term cannabis smokers who abstained from pot for one week “showed virtually no significant differences from control subjects (those who had smoked marijuana less than 50 times in their lives) on a battery of 10 neuropsychological tests.” Investigators added, “Former heavy users, who had consumed little or no cannabis in the three months before testing, [also] showed no significant differences from control subjects on any of these tests on any of the testing days.”"

Quote :

"Everybody knows a forgetful stoner, but research suggests that low doses of marijuana could be good for memory, and even help prevent Alzheimer’s disease. When given a compound similar to THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, rat brains displayed reduced levels of inflammation associated with Alzheimer’s disease. The drug also stimulated the production of proteins associated with memory formation and brain cell growth. "

10/27/2009 9:20:23 AM

It depends on the person. If I've just lit up a fat bowl, I am in rapture with a math book. Spend hours and hours reading through it ... I doubt I could do that sober.

10/27/2009 9:50:03 AM

Anyone that makes a serious scientific inquiry into the long term effects of marijuana will find himself scrambling for negative findings and stumbling upon some positive ones. No one in their right mind should support Alcohol as a legal drug, and oppose Marijuana legalization in the same vein. Knowing this, one should re-think their approach, and instead focus on making Alcohol illegal. However, typically these types of people would not support this approach, which is completely illogical and makes their hypocrisy very transparent.

[Edited on October 27, 2009 at 10:59 AM. Reason : -]

10/27/2009 10:57:13 AM

Quote :

"No one in their right mind should support Alcohol as a legal drug, and oppose Marijuana legalization in the same vein"

10/27/2009 11:30:54 AM

The original comparison a few posts up was with Amphetamines, how do you guys feel about that?

10/27/2009 11:55:43 AM

Quote :

"memory loss is a long term thing, but nice try. also, underlying neorological disorders triggered by marijauana usage can be permanent as well."

Let's assume that this were true for long term chronic use of pot.

Now, lets compare that to the long term chronic use of tobacco and alcohol: death.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that marijuana is totally harmless, there isn't any evidence or proof of that either. But it is certainly no more harmful than dozens of legal substances, and is substantially less harmful than most of them. That's a fact.

Beyond that, marijuana also has proven beneficial therapeutic uses which are completely absent in substances such as alcohol and tobacco.

[Edited on October 27, 2009 at 12:12 PM. Reason : :]

10/27/2009 12:05:23 PM

^^The potential for abuse of opiates and amphetamines is much higher, and the consequences are more serious.

10/27/2009 12:08:50 PM

Quote :

"The thing is no matter what supportive source I find you will attempt to discredit "

you didn't provide supporting evidence. you copied and pasted some shit from some other forum or blog without even verifying the articles exist in the first place, let alone what the content of said articles included.

Quote :

"Anyone that makes a serious scientific inquiry into the long term effects of marijuana will find himself scrambling for negative findings and stumbling upon some positive ones. "

BULL. FUCKING. SHIT. I posted several recent articles describing the negative long term effects on the brain from marijuana consumption. The only positive benefits typically listed in medical articles relate to side effects that marijuana has, yet other drugs do a better and safer job. There are much better appetite stimulants and pain killers on the market today.

Quote :

"No one in their right mind should support Alcohol as a legal drug, and oppose Marijuana legalization in the same vein."

what the fuck is this? Have you heard me make one single argument for prohibition of marijuana? I would like to see marijuana legalized, along with damn near about everything else. Unfortunately, the typical hippie response is to glorify marijuana while bashing every other drug with recreational use. That's not a very smart thing to do when your ultimate goal is personal freedom to choose what you do with your body. If you're going to argue for the legalization of weed, then admit that it has some side effects that should be up to the consumer whether or not they want to take those risks. To flat out deny any potential harmful effects just makes you look stupid when there is an ocean of research out there to prove the opposite.

Quote :

"Beyond that, marijuana also has proven beneficial therapeutic uses which are completely absent in substances such as alcohol and tobacco. "

alcohol has a ton of therapeutic uses. It can be used in moderation for people with weak kidneys to help flush their systems. Wine has been proven over and over again to help with improving cholesterol, circulation, and a slew of other things. This is expected to be part of why the french live so long.

Nicotine helps with weight loss and can be used as a stimulant. There are more effective substances for doing what nicotine does, but the same can be said for marijuana.

Quote :

"^^The potential for abuse of opiates and amphetamines is much higher, and the consequences are more serious. "

Do you really think that all opiates and amphetamines are really that dangerous? Do you think it must be some vast conspiracy why marijuana is Schedule 1, yet amphetamines and opiates have allowed medical usages? The ratio of LD50:ED50 is significantly lower for caffeine than for amphetamines, so why not make the argument that the consequences of caffeine usage is more dangerous? Do you think Europe must be crazy for allowing codeine sales OTC?

10/27/2009 12:39:25 PM

No, I don't think amphetamines are terribly dangerous. I'm just stating that the potential for abuse is far higher than marijuana, and abuse has significant consequences. Thus, it can be reasonably argued that amphetamines are more dangerous than pot. The fact that something is allowed for medical use doesn't make it safer than pot. Even IBUProfen has serious consequences associated with over-usage.

And yes - I do think marijuana's illegality is merely a result of right-wing political agenda (War on Drugs, Friends of the Family), and misconceptions dating back to the '20s. There is no factual basis for it being illegal when you consider all the other LEGAL substances.

[Edited on October 27, 2009 at 1:57 PM. Reason : and for the record, I don't smoke]

10/27/2009 1:52:16 PM

Quote :

"BULL. FUCKING. SHIT. I posted several recent articles describing the negative long term effects on the brain from marijuana consumption. The only positive benefits typically listed in medical articles relate to side effects that marijuana has, yet other drugs do a better and safer job. There are much better appetite stimulants and pain killers on the market today."

I'm well aware of the risks of triggering schizophrenia, COPD, respiratory problems, and other short-term impairments of Marijuana. However, I don't find the articles that you linked compelling in the slightest, in regards to labeling Marijuana as a "harmful" drug that clearly does permanent damage. In fact, I doubt you will find any compelling evidence of Marijuana causing cancer either, as most of the studies did not include subjects that only smoked Marijuana. I have seen no compelling evidence of long term permanent damage after quitting. Clearly, you believe that you have found this evidence. We will have to agree to disagree on this point, for I am not convinced. Also, the vaporization or the ingestion of Marijuana, would immediately nullify some of the alleged risks, depending on which method you use. As an interesting sidenote, as far as I know, Marijuana is the only natural substance on earth that both increases appetite and decreases nausea. I would not claim that Marijuana is perfectly safe, nothing is perfectly safe, that stance would not be held by someone like me. Rather, everything must be judged relatively, and I am not convinced that Marijuana is harmful (permanent damage) or overtly dangerous, especially compared to other legal drugs.

Quote :

"what the fuck is this? Have you heard me make one single argument for prohibition of marijuana? I would like to see marijuana legalized, along with damn near about everything else. Unfortunately, the typical hippie response is to glorify marijuana while bashing every other drug with recreational use. That's not a very smart thing to do when your ultimate goal is personal freedom to choose what you do with your body. If you're going to argue for the legalization of weed, then admit that it has some side effects that should be up to the consumer whether or not they want to take those risks. To flat out deny any potential harmful effects just makes you look stupid when there is an ocean of research out there to prove the opposite."

Labeling someone a hippie, simply because they hold the same health standards to Alcohol as they do to Marijuana, is nothing short of pointless stereotyping and unscientific rambling. It's actually quite clever to flip the collective rationale of those who would oppose pot's legalization on it's head, by simply suggesting that they re-direct their misguided fight towards a far greater scourge, evil Alcohol. Perhaps I was unclear, so let me say this, I would oppose making Alcohol illegal. The reason being, I know that in moderation, Alcohol is not harmful and can improve heart health, among other things. You seem to be missing my point entirely. m2c, carry on.

[Edited on October 27, 2009 at 3:08 PM. Reason : -]

10/27/2009 2:58:24 PM

Quote :

"dental, the same reasons cocaine is illegal, but codeine is with a rx."

yep. because the pharmaceutical lobby is fucking strong.

Quote :

"just because you can't overdose on marijuana doesn't mean it doesn't have serious adverse side effects similar to opiates and amphetamines. Marijuana has serious side effects, both physical and psychiatrical, that always seem to get played off by marijuana users."

So do cigarettes and alcohol...

10/27/2009 4:05:05 PM

Quote :

"yep. because the pharmaceutical lobby is fucking strong."

This is one thing I don't understand about the pharmaceutical lobby -- why are they so opposed to opening up the legality of an industry from which they could make $russia?

Are they just afraid that the low barrier of entry due to the nature of basically just growing a house plant will open the market up to too many independent producers for them to be successful (because that's a pretty dumb fear for anyone with billions of dollars and an army of marketers and lawyers)? Or have they just not thought the issue through all the way, and have this whole time just been knee-jerking against it out of instinct/fear of change?

And for that matter, why isn't the farming lobby pushing HARD for legalization, seeing as how farming marijuana would be a fairly trivial task for farmers to do in large amounts? (or maybe they are and I just don't know it)

[Edited on October 27, 2009 at 4:20 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2009 4:18:20 PM

^Think about it: Marijuana is going to compete with all kinds if medicines, both controlled and OTC, from pain suppressents to dietary supplements. They can't patent marijuana, and they can't control who makes it. It's not their product.

They are, you just don't know it.

10/27/2009 4:46:58 PM

^Ah, so it is the whole "fear of a low barrier of entry" thing.

Though I'd be surprised if they couldn't just package the marijuana in a pill form with a bit of sugar or something, give it a shitty name, and then get a patent. Or even just patent the very process of blunt-rolling... that could fuck some people over hard, assuming someone hasn't patented it already.


Also, good to know about the farming lobby. Go them.

[Edited on October 27, 2009 at 4:52 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2009 4:51:17 PM

I think they worry that they'd lose profits on other drugs, while not making up those profits through marijuana. I mean, when you can grow a personal plant in your backyard that yields more than enough for you to use...why wouldn't you? Why pay the price for some company to grow it, plus whatever outrageous tax the government puts on it?

10/27/2009 4:57:08 PM

^Because people tend to flock to heavily-marketed brand image over cheaper and easier options?

As the perfect example, I present to you the entire bottled water industry.

[Edited on October 27, 2009 at 5:03 PM. Reason : it's not so much bolded for emphasis as it is bolded because I really dislike them.]

10/27/2009 4:59:11 PM

if we ended corn subsidies i bet they'd have more incentive to do so.

10/27/2009 5:01:29 PM

Quote :

"This is one thing I don't understand about the pharmaceutical lobby -- why are they so opposed to opening up the legality of an industry from which they could make $russia?"

It sounds like they are already making $connecticut on it by making THC pills...

10/27/2009 11:56:35 PM