Quote :

"Thats not the point. They should not pitch to him because he does not deserve to break Hanks record. It has nothing to do with being hardasses or pussies. And the non pussy move in this situation would actually to be to just walk his ass every fucking time he comes to the plate and give him no opportunity to break the record."

Deserve?

There was a great article from two years ago by ESPN the Magazine. In it they talked about steroids and performance enhancers in baseball, from the late 1980s to when the BALCO lab in San Francisco got raided by the feds. After reading the article, which told the points of view of about 15 different people, there was little doubt in my mind that baseball knew what was going on and intentionally made sure they did not find out about it so they could have deniability.

Bonds may not deserve the home run record, but Bud Selig and the owners are deserving of having Bonds with the home run record.

Quote :

"It wasn't known that McGwire was juicing at the time. If it was, myself & pretty much everyone else would have had a very different view of the HR chase. "

Androstenedione.

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 4:29 PM. Reason : .]

4/23/2007 4:26:52 PM

Bud Selig is the worst pro sports commissioner there is

4/23/2007 4:28:49 PM

^ How is Selig worse than Bettman?

4/23/2007 4:29:28 PM

^^^Just because the commish let it go on, doesn't mean that a cheater still deserves the record because he wasn't prohibited from cheating.

4/23/2007 4:33:05 PM

^^well they might be equally incompetent

4/23/2007 4:41:59 PM

Quote :

"Just because the commish let it go on, doesn't mean that a cheater still deserves the record because he wasn't prohibited from cheating."

Fundamental point: Baseball deserves Bonds. In this instance baseball is like auto racing and pro wrestling. You're only cheating if you got caught cheating. It is natural in a competitive environment for people to look for a disallowed edge on the competition. It is the job of the referee to catch people that try to cheat. If Hank Aaron has a problem with Bonds breaking his record, he has no one to blame but the referee, i.e. Bud Selig and MLB.

Here's the ESPN the Magazine article from 2005. Good read. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroids&num=1

4/23/2007 4:45:29 PM

baseball deserves Pete Rose too

put him in the Hall

hell they didnt even ever imply he was betting while he was a player, just a manager...and he didnt cheat with steroids...he has had the hits record for decades...fuck bonds

4/23/2007 4:52:35 PM

Rose is part of the first story in that article, from the mid-1980s.

Quote :

"Rose spotted Starr and ran over. He threw his thick arms around the trainer's slim, marathoner's body and dragged him into the weight room. "This is the guy I was telling you about," he yelled to gym manager Tommy Gioiosa. The 28-year-old Gioiosa was Rose's kind of guy; the ex-minor leaguer would do anything to be in the orbit of a superstar. He and Pete were tight: they played touch football at the indoor rink across the street after workouts. Gioiosa, a 5'7" wall of muscle built with a chemical assist, extended his hand to Starr. Starr didn't trust the guy. He knew steroids were illegal in this country without a prescription and had been for decades. And they were rare in baseball. In fact, Starr was suspicious of only one Red: an outfielder who had come to spring training the year before with 30 extra pounds and a lame explanation about changing his diet. He'd asked Starr if he should do steroids, then looked as if he'd ignored the advice. Rose was more bemused than angry about the possibility. Once, when reporters were lingering by the player's locker, one of them heard Rose tease, "Tell them what steroids can do for you." The guy was still the exception in the dugout, but Starr wondered how much longer he would be, especially now that Pete was inviting his Reds to train at a gym Rose knew was managed by a self-confessed juicer. "

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 5:03 PM. Reason : .]

4/23/2007 5:01:22 PM

well even if Rose juiced, whats the difference in him and Bonds getting into the Hall? They both juiced, they both broke (will break) big records...

4/23/2007 5:05:08 PM

The position that the result of a game is not being fixed (as in, no more Black Sox Scandals and managers gambling, or in Rose's case, managers not gambling as a signal to bookies) is probably more important to MLB than one guy doing steroids.

Will Bonds get in the HOF? Don't know, and don't really care.

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 5:09 PM. Reason : ..]

4/23/2007 5:08:04 PM

Quote :

" Quote : "It wasn't known that McGwire was juicing at the time. If it was, myself & pretty much everyone else would have had a very different view of the HR chase. " Androstenedione. "

Andro wasn't illegal at the time though. And Mac admitted he was using Andro at the time. It's one thing to take a legal (at the time) suppliment. It's another thing to take an illegal steroid, like HGH.

4/23/2007 8:59:46 PM

MLB chose to ignore steroids. Effectively, it was legal.

4/23/2007 9:35:02 PM

yeah Andro was completely fine, which is all they have proof of McGwire using. McGwire was also always a big guy, where Bonds was a skinny shit until he got old. Nobody puts that much muscle on in their late thirties.

McGwire being a big guy, then using LEGAL andro to make himself cut as hell and enhance workouts, is a lot better in my book than some skinny fuck becomming washed up then all of a sudden puting on 100 lbs and growing 4 pants sizes before breaking the homerun record.


I'm not saying McGwire is innocent cause his act in front of congress made me think but his shit is a lot more tolerable than what Barry is doing.

4/23/2007 10:00:00 PM

for the record, mark mcgwire was a skinny shit as well.

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/mcgwire87tp.jpg

4/23/2007 11:06:43 PM

Quote :

"Fundamental point: Baseball deserves Bonds. In this instance baseball is like auto racing and pro wrestling. "

So baseball is equal to a sport where guys sit down, and push on a peddle.....while never standing up.....and baseball players participate in a "sport" where the ENTIRE thing is faked? Fucking awesome man. You just proved out point when you tried to compare the fucking MLB and Bonds breaking the HR record to the fucking WWE!!! Holy fucking shit are you an idiot!!!!!!

4/23/2007 11:14:39 PM

Quote :

"McGwire was also always a big guy"

Do what? Before McGwire started juicing with Canseco he was a twig.

4/23/2007 11:14:50 PM

http://www.termdictionary.com/downloads/audio/mike_ditka_-_ballgame.mp3

I didn't have anywhere to put this but it's probably the greatest feat in baseball history. :25 of glory.

4/23/2007 11:17:07 PM

Quote :

""McGwire was also always a big guy"

Have you ever seem his 1985 Olympic card? Or his 1988 Topps card? Or perhaps his 1987 Donruss card? Or his college card? Sure MLB players get bigger over the years, but not to the extent that BONDS and McGuire have.

4/23/2007 11:36:28 PM

Bonds rookie card kills me every time i see it

4/23/2007 11:39:57 PM

Give this shit a rest people.


Where are all the people calling for Brett Boone's all-star appearances to be revoked?

What about Pujols, why doesn't he get any negative attention for all the awards he's been racking up on steroids?


Just get over it.


As noted earlier in the thread. Bonds was doing the damn thing way before he ever touched steroids. Imagine busting your ass to get to the top of one of the most competitive professions in the world and once you got there people zoomed past you by cheating. They captured all the attention, admiration, awards, money, and historical significance.

You wouldn't "cheat" too?





[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 11:43 PM. Reason : a]

4/23/2007 11:40:48 PM

Quote :

"What about Pujols, why doesn't he get any negative attention for all the awards he's been racking up on steroids?"

You crossed the line on this rally. Nobody has any evidence at all that Albert is on roids. He has been this big since he was 19. I mean he was hitting homeruns right off the bat when he came into the league. He wasn't a base stealer turned home run king like Bonds. Until you can bring some proof, you leave Howard and Pujols and others out of it.

4/24/2007 12:11:50 AM

everyone cheated. i hope he breaks the record, and laughs at the haters.

4/24/2007 12:17:10 AM

Hey Rally, call me when APs head grows a half inch and he grows an entire shoe size....IN HIS FUCKING late 30s! There is a reason this doesn't happen all the time. Its called steroids.....


And I might give Bonds the benefit of the doubt, if he didn't keep saying this..."I have never KNOWINGLY taken steroids"

Any cheating sack of shit can claim this and then tell his trainer to pump him full of whatever it takes to get ahead as long as he doesnt know what is going on. Its almost, if not more pathetic than Sosa claiming he didnt know how to speak English before congress.



[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 12:21 AM. Reason : .]

4/24/2007 12:17:59 AM

Oh yeah clearly Pujols isn't on steroids.



He's from Latin America, right?



You do realize its easier to add muscle at the age of 30 than the age of 19, right?


If Pujols isn't on steroids then neither is the WCW.


P.S. Pujols is an asshole too. Why doesn't this get brought up? He's just as big of a whiner and prima donna as Bonds. Where's the hate?

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 3:41 AM. Reason : a]

4/24/2007 3:40:03 AM

Quote :

"Andro wasn't illegal at the time though. And Mac admitted he was using Andro at the time. It's one thing to take a legal (at the time) suppliment. It's another thing to take an illegal steroid, like HGH."

At the time it happened, as said in the link I provided, the NFL and the US Olympic Committee said andro was illegal cause it was a steroid. Is there any difference between using allowed steroids and disallowed steroids if you're worrying about the sanctity of a record? At the end of the day both people are using steroids.

Quote :

"So baseball is equal to a sport where guys sit down, and push on a peddle.....while never standing up.....and baseball players participate in a "sport" where the ENTIRE thing is faked? Fucking awesome man. You just proved out point when you tried to compare the fucking MLB and Bonds breaking the HR record to the fucking WWE!!! Holy fucking shit are you an idiot!!!!!!"

Cheating is cheating, whether it is baseball or auto racing. In auto racing, you could knowingly cheat, but if you were never caught by NASCAR or IndyCar or Le Mans or F1 or whatever, you were never cheating. Mr. Bonds has never cheated in baseball, despite what he has or has not taken, otherwise MLB would have caught him. That is why it is the job of the authorities of whatever is going on illegal to be diligent in catching cheaters, instead of turning a blind eye cause the owners are making a lot of money off of a juiced McGwire and a juiced Sosa. The WWE reference is how the ref has his back turned and that's when the chairshot happens. There's no better caricacture for Selig than a wrestling referee.

You sound like a person genuinely upset that Bonds will break the record. I bet you were enthralled with McGwire and Sosa. LOL. It serves people like you right for putting your faith into a sport that rewards a meaningless accomplishment record over who actually wins a game. I hope Bonds breaks the record simply to show the HR record doesn't mean s***, like it's supposed to be.

Hank Aaron, for the record, is not the home run king, it is Babe Ruth. Aaron played in smaller ballparks than Ruth did and finished his career as a frickin' DH. So my home run king is a fat man that ate 20 hot dogs a day. The Babe tells Hank Aaron to suck on that.



[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 9:05 AM. Reason : ..]

4/24/2007 8:56:09 AM

Pujols is not on steroids. Neither is/was A-rod, Ryan Howard, Griffy, Frank Thomas.


The big hitters on roids were:

Canseco, Palmiero, McGwire, Bonds, Albert Belle, Ivan Rodriguez, Ruben Sierra, Brett Boone, Brady Anderson, Luis Gonzalez, Juan Gonzalez

4/24/2007 9:09:54 AM

Quote :

"Where are all the people calling for Brett Boone's all-star appearances to be revoked? "

so making the all-star game = holding the MLB all time HR record?

4/24/2007 9:29:39 AM

Quote :

"Pujols is not on steroids"

Well here's the evidence you are denying.

1) A young BALD guy

2) From Latin America

3) Absurd Power numbers

4) known for having a bad temper/ego

5) Too big for a young guy



Okay, he's not on steroids. He's the one guy in MLB that's not on Roids for sure

4/24/2007 9:38:11 AM

wtf does "Too big for a young guy" mean?

4/24/2007 9:48:38 AM

Quote :

"Pujols is not on steroids. Neither is/was A-rod, Ryan Howard, Griffy, Frank Thomas."

What makes you so sure ANY of those guys haven't ever used steroids?

[Edited on April 24, 2007 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

4/24/2007 9:54:38 AM

THE ONLY WAY I'LL EVER CONCEDE THAT BONDS WAS ON STEROIDS IS IF YOU ADMIT ITS POSSIBLE THAT ALL OF MLB IS ON STEROIDS BECAUSE I LOVE SUCKING OFF BONDS

4/24/2007 9:57:54 AM

Baseball fans need to quit being so delusional.

4/24/2007 10:00:24 AM

I'm not arguing that Bonds hasn't used steroids, but I'm not naive enough to think that he was one of the only users in MLB.

4/24/2007 10:03:45 AM

I really hope Bonds dies in a plane crash before he breaks the record

4/24/2007 10:11:02 AM

Bonds is the best baseball player ever. He is batting .348 at the age of 42 and still strikes fear into opposing pitchers. Everyone on here is a hater. Rallydurham is the only one who makes good points.

4/24/2007 11:41:25 AM

Jmhans has a vagina

4/24/2007 11:43:15 AM

Joey Devine is the greatest pitcher ever. He strikes fear into every batter he faces. Everyone on here is delusional.

4/24/2007 11:48:00 AM

Go suck off the Rangers, Gimpy.

4/24/2007 12:15:32 PM

The cheater hit another one tonight.

4/26/2007 12:28:45 AM

pujols just tells it like it is. He was the MVP last year...nothing wrong with that. Jason Marquis is the luckiest fucking bad pitcher in the major leagues. He had the most wins last year with the highest ERA for a reason....then got fucking exposed late in the season and didnt even pitch in the playoffs. I always hated that guy anyway.

Difference between bonds and pujols being primadanas or whatever the fuck you called them...everyone in the major leages including his teammates doesnt hate pujols. everyone hates bonds.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 12:48 AM. Reason : ]

4/26/2007 12:47:27 AM

Quote :

"Well here's the evidence you are denying. 1) A young BALD guy 2) From Latin America 3) Absurd Power numbers 4) known for having a bad temper/ego 5) Too big for a young guy"

I don't get #2. Off the top of my head, the only guys I can think of with links to steroids from the Dominican are Tejada, Sosa, and Mota. That leaves out Soriano, Ortiz, Manny, Pedro, Vladamir, Colon, Alou etc. I'm not saying Pujols is clean, but I don't see how being from the Dominican Republic makes it more likely for him to use steroids than Travis Hafner.

4/26/2007 4:44:42 PM

i think his point was that it easier to get illegal drugs outside of the US

but that obviously doesnt explain somebody like Bonds or McGwire or Giambi etc

4/26/2007 4:50:13 PM

its a well known fact that dominican baseball players are usually older than their bio says

pujols is probably 30 or 31, if not older

4/26/2007 4:54:11 PM

I think they should pitch fastballs to his fat head.

4/26/2007 4:54:44 PM

also as a side note i think sheffield has a quicker swing than bonds

4/26/2007 4:59:29 PM

sheffield has a quicker swing than anyone

4/26/2007 5:01:09 PM

its pretty fucking quick

4/26/2007 5:03:00 PM

No way its faster that Bonds'...

4/26/2007 5:11:35 PM

if Bonds is faster, it certainly isnt by more than a couple milliseconds

4/26/2007 5:15:20 PM

really?!

i'd say bonds is slower by 20 or 30 seconds at least

more expert analysis from treetwista

4/26/2007 5:16:39 PM