Quote :

"I'm not sure you have ever posted a fact, and backed it up with a source in your entire soap box career. And I don't take the 1 person you know in Iraq as enough information to stake a claim on."

el oh el. i don't know any body in Iraq. I don't know any Iraqis anywhere. My sources are from published books. Which I am sure you have never read anything that didn't involve a scroll wheel to 'flip' pages.

[Edited on May 8, 2007 at 5:03 PM. Reason : page 02]

5/8/2007 5:03:04 PM

Links to those books then, so that I may purchase them.

5/8/2007 5:24:15 PM

Quote :

"Relations between all religious communities in Iraq have deteriorated over the past four years. The fall of Saddam Hussein led to a process in which the Shia, 60 per cent of the population, replaced the previously dominant Sunni who are only 20 per cent. The Sunni insurgency has always been sectarian and has killed Shia, Christians and Yazidis as heretics. In the Baghdad district of Dora the Christian community has been threatened in recent weeks and told to convert to Islam, pay protection money or be killed. Many have fled."

How about this:

Infant mortality rate: 125 per 1,000 live births (2005)

In 1990: 50 per 1,000 live births.

5/9/2007 3:58:02 AM

Its no secret that we fucked up Iraq even worse than it was before.

5/9/2007 10:47:05 AM

How is the surge working out for us? Something like, 120 killed over the weekend?

7/10/2007 11:01:13 AM

law enforcement and medicine in the United States are pathetic...we have more than 120 people die every day...America is a failure based on lies

I mean seriously is your only measure of success when there are zero deaths for some period of time?

7/10/2007 11:04:25 AM

Well, the only way to win is a decades long occupation like we have done in Korea, and its evident we neither have the desire, will or financial resources to do so.

7/10/2007 11:12:42 AM

^^ No, of course not.

But it's a fun sensational metric to put in a post to get scum like you to crawl out from your holes and grace the thread with your retarded presence.

7/10/2007 11:23:22 AM

Quote :

"law enforcement and medicine in the United States are pathetic...we have more than 120 people die every day...America is a failure based on lies"

dying of cancer or a heart attack isn't the same as thinking every car you pass on the street could be a huge bomb, or worrying that you might be blown up while at the market.

i mean, there hasn't even really been progress.....the US cracks down in one city or neighborhood, and the insurgents just go to another until they leave.

occupations rarely work out w/o iron fist ruling.....seems like history would have taught us that lesson already....

7/10/2007 11:29:02 AM

Quote :

"scum like you to crawl out from your holes and grace the thread with your retarded presence"

lol...maybe i should do like you and create a bunch of "omg the iraq war is still bad" threads cause that would be really productive and intelligent and there certainly aren't enough of that type of thread already

7/10/2007 12:34:43 PM

Quote :

"law enforcement and medicine in the United States are pathetic...we have more than 120 people die every day...America is a failure based on lies I mean seriously is your only measure of success when there are zero deaths for some period of time?"

Worst argument ever. Comparing a country the size of the United States to a country the size of Iraq is ludicrous in the first place. Second, even pretending to insinuate that the United States is more dangerous than Iraq is asinine.

The measure of success is progress over time towards a predetermined goal measured against the cost. The problem in Iraq is that the goal has shifted, repeatedly, in order to fit in with the most politically palatable outcome at the moment. Second, the administration has been slow to recognize the need to shift strategies within the country, further retarding success. Finally, the administration has been in flat out denial of the reality on the ground in Iraq.

Was this war necessary? No. Could it have been won? Absolutely, with the right planning. Are we reaching a point in the next 2 - 3 years where pulling out will be a military, not a political, necessity? Probably.

7/10/2007 1:23:33 PM

The Brookings Institute report on the surge, an excerpt:

"Car bombings remain prevalent enough that the current relative restraint exercised by most Shia militias will be difficult to sustain. There is no evidence that ethnic cleansing has declined significantly from its pre-surge level of roughly 100,000 persons displaced per month. Cities such as Kirkuk and Mosul remain tinderboxes, and have perhaps worsened in recent weeks. The economy remains stagnant and utility performance very mediocre. And perhaps worst of all, the Iraqi political system fails to deliver any real progress on the core issues dividing Sunni from Shia from Kurd".

http://www.brookings.edu/fp/saban/iraq/index.pdf

Every possible statistic you could ask for

[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 2:57 PM. Reason : .]

7/10/2007 2:55:37 PM

It has been a while since I have commented on anything political or about the Iraq war.
Frankly….what new information could I bring?

Well…as much as I thought that I had heard, this one still floored me.
Yes..I heard it on the radio....but that does not lessen the truth of it..

I am putting a link to news story in this email.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTUzNmIyNDUyMmRjZTk0OTYwZTRhZTVmNzFkOGIwMGY=

In a nutshell? Al-Queda has a special way of keeping families under their control. Especially those with children.
Apparently, there is a B-B-Q for families with 10 y/o children.
Members of Al-Queda will invite the family over for the B-B-Q….

And then they serve the families 10y/o child..BAKED..with an apple in his mouth.

I will only ask 3 questions…..

Question 1…. Please..ANYBODY explain to me…. how is this is less evil than Nazi Ovens in Death Camps?

Question 2….If you were unable to conclude that Nazi’s were more evil, please explain to me how ANYBODY who states we should not be in Iraq, would not have also argued we should not have fought Hitler and Nazi Germany if that were the times they lived in…especially when this SAME Al-Queda states Iraq is their primary battleground? http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBVJ2X2S3F.html

Question 3.....How can anybody actually believe we should not be in this battle?
And do not even insult our intelligence with "We are making these terrorist".
Only a fool would believe that we created this horror.

7/10/2007 7:44:54 PM

i can't find where the baking the kids quote is coming from in the national review article. it's definitely not in the article he links in the blog.

7/10/2007 7:56:50 PM

i read it on the internet - it must be true

7/10/2007 8:03:33 PM

WTF?

Al Qaeda are holding BBQs?

And if that's not bullshit enough, they are serving BAKED CHILDREN??? And with an APPLE IN THE MOUTH???

Dude, chit chat is the other way... you missed it.



And they are not baking 'MURRCAN children are they? So WhyTF do you care? Do you know how many unmentionable atrocities are committed in Africa? WhyTF aren't you there.

You sure didn't put lottathought into that, did you lottathought?


[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 8:08 PM. Reason : ]

7/10/2007 8:05:35 PM

Typical..

Does not take a moment to read and click a few links.
Just starts off with ....It is not true...

Well I have about had it with the blithering idiots.
You look all throughout history and there has been pure evil in every century...UNTIL NOW APPRENTLY...
These people are as bloodthirsty as any that have ever lived.

But since you have to be spoonfed...


http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/second-chances.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1861722/posts

Here is the paragraph...
The official reported that on a couple of occasions in Baqubah, al Qaeda invited to lunch families they wanted to convert to their way of thinking. In each instance, the family had a boy, he said, who was about 11 years old. As LT David Wallach interpreted the man’s words, I saw Wallach go blank and silent. He stopped interpreting for a moment. I asked Wallach, “What did he say?” Wallach said that at these luncheons, the families were sat down to eat. And then their boy was brought in with his mouth stuffed. The boy had been baked. Al Qaeda served the boy to his family.


Bet you never required this much proof that man was making the earth hotter...did you...


[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 9:15 PM. Reason : .]

7/10/2007 9:13:07 PM

This is fucking stupid. Why would al qaeda, trying to get non al qaeda to convert, kill their children BEFOREHAND? You stupid fuck.

I'm not sure what is scarier, al qaeda killing people in Iraq, or people like you that have bought the administrations propaganda, hook line and sinker.

Wait, I do know which is more scary, and it isn't al qaeda.

7/10/2007 9:21:01 PM

What a perfect example of what I said.
You cant believe that terrorist would do things like this..OH NO!!!
They are good people......

But the administration..Why we can believe ANYTHING that pops up about them.
Cause we see atrocities like that every day in this country.

Yeah...and I am the dangerous one.

Idiot

7/10/2007 10:13:24 PM

no here is what doesn't make sense:

Quote :

"Why would al qaeda, trying to get non al qaeda to convert, kill their children BEFOREHAND?"

and "baking" a boy doesn't take just minutes or even an hour. so the boy disappears for hours at the luncheon and none of his family members ask where he his? and then 2-4 hours later he comes with an apple in his mouth?

you also didn't asnwer this:

Quote :

"And they are not baking 'MURRCAN children are they? So WhyTF do you care? Do you know how many unmentionable atrocities are committed in Africa? WhyTF aren't you there."

7/10/2007 10:22:14 PM

Look, you dumb mother fucker, this is my last post for you. I didn't say I didn't think terrorist could do something like this. Hell, I've watched beheading videos, baking and serving a child wouldn't be a stretch. However, I question the validity of this "urban legend" sounding story. Something that you obviously haven't done yet.

Quote :

"But the administration..Why we can believe ANYTHING that pops up about them. Cause we see atrocities like that every day in this country."

What the fuck hell are you talking about? Start making some sense, or start PMing drunknretarded, maybe he'll get what the hell you are talking about.

7/10/2007 10:24:42 PM

Quote :

"This is fucking stupid. Why would al qaeda, trying to get non al qaeda to convert, kill their children BEFOREHAND? You stupid fuck."

al Qaeda is certainly not beyond this. One of the lesser known stories out of Iraq right now is the fact that local Iraqi insurgent groups are banding together to kick al Qaeda out precisely because they are so heavy handed. So I do not for a moment think that this story, though improbable, is impossible.

However. . .

Quote :

"How can anybody actually believe we should not be in this battle?"

Because al Qaeda barely existed in Iraq before our presence. They have moved there precisely because we are there. Yes they existed in Afghanistan and most people still support the Afghan campaign, but Iraq was miserably planned and is currently causing a massive strain on the Army and Marine Corps (and to a lesser extent Air Force and Navy's) equipment and personnel. We are diverting resources from Afghanistan to Iraq and, currently, have no strategic reserve. If something else touches off in the world it is going to be up to China, Russia, France, or Germany to quash it. We cannot sustain another theater without bringing back the draft.

7/11/2007 8:25:38 AM

Quote :

"please explain to me how ANYBODY who states we should not be in Iraq, would not have also argued we should not have fought Hitler and Nazi Germany if that were the times they lived in…especially when this SAME Al-Queda states Iraq is their primary battleground? "

Maybe because Germany was well on their way to taking over the world, and al-queda has neither the means nor the supoort to do more than cause regional conflicts.

Of course Iraq is their primary battle ground, we made it that way.

Quote :

"How can anybody actually believe we should not be in this battle? And do not even insult our intelligence with "We are making these terrorist". Only a fool would believe that we created this horror."

fact is, if we weren't there, thousands of dead us troops would be alive, hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, there wouldn't be car/suicide bombings every day, and we wouldn't be drawing/creating new terrorists in Iraq every day.

it's hard to deny that if the US would have spent the amount of money on domestic security that they have spent in Iraq, the country would be much safer than it is now.....if anything, we're less safe than a few years ago.

[Edited on July 11, 2007 at 9:05 AM. Reason : .]

7/11/2007 8:59:39 AM

And then, they like totally fed them puppies as hors dourves!

7/11/2007 9:10:33 AM

http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=562

Quote :

"Since the President announced his plan to escalate the war in Iraq: 590 U.S. soldiers have died and 3,575 have been wounded in Iraq since January 10, 2007. [icasualties.org; 1/10/07-7/9/07] Of the wounded, 1,672 suffer injuries too severe to return to duty. At least 13,463 civilians and members of the Iraqi Security Forces have died since January 2007, according to media reports. [icasualties.org] Nearly 11,000 people have been killed or wounded in multiple fatality bombings. [Brookings Institution, 7/5/07] According to an internal military assessment, the U.S. military’s plan to secure Baghdad against a rising insurgency is falling far short of its goal. Fewer than one-third of Baghdad’s neighborhoods are under the control of U.S. and Iraqi forces. [New York Times, 6/4/07] Senior military officer, on the U.S. military’s Baghdad security plan: “We were way too optimistic.” [New York Times, 6/4/07] According to one senior military official: “We are starting to see more sophistication and training in their attacks…clearly the trend is going the wrong direction.” [Washington Post, 6/3/07] The war in Iraq is costing American taxpayers an estimated $10 billion a month. [CRS, 6/28/07] Iraq’s largest Sunni political group announced pulled out of parliament over last month’s vote to remove the speaker, Mahmoud al-Mashhadan, a Sunni Arab. [AP, 6/24/07] No progress has been made on the political benchmarks the Iraqi government was supposed to have met already. Oil sharing legislation, the reversal of deBaathification, new election laws, scheduling of provincial elections, amending the constitution and efforts to disband the militias are all languishing either in parliament or in negotiations among the three parties. [Washington Post, 7/8/07] "

Consider the source. Obviously, any positives are going to be left out of that blog post, but you have to admit, the negatives are glaring brightly.

7/11/2007 2:45:47 PM

i might as well post some fox news blogs or rush limbaugh blog entries to balance out a link to pelosi's blog

btw Blind Hate i thought you werent partisan? anybody who would quote Pelosi's blog is either partisan, or a homo

7/11/2007 2:48:16 PM

Quote :

"i might as well post some fox news blogs or rush limbaugh blog entries to balance out a link to pelosi's blog"

if you can post some blogs or any other source showing documented good news from iraq, i think we would all like to read it.

so what the blog is nancy's? all the news in it is by major newspapers.

so yeah, if you have got good news to post (not just american soldiers distributing candy or playing ball with the locals), then please do.

7/11/2007 2:52:29 PM

i just know how certain sources are viewed in TSB (ie FoxNews)

and Pelosi's blog would be viewed the same way if say, the Speaker of the House was a Republican

I mean honestly this isnt even the left equivalent of Fox News or Rush...its the left equivalent of if George Bush had a blog

also:

Quote :

"all the news in it is by major newspapers"

Washington Post and New York Times...

7/11/2007 2:57:25 PM

i wouldn't take a blogger's word for it on subjective issues.

but issues such as number of casualties (which is a large part of that post) are about as objective as they can possibly be.

7/11/2007 3:11:16 PM

if you have got good news to post (not just american soldiers distributing candy or playing ball with the locals), then please do.

7/11/2007 3:18:14 PM

^^I'm not disputing the numbers in her blog post...I just think its clear that this particular source has a huge personal/political agenda...its about as far from a non-biased source as you can get

this is pretty ironic though

Quote :

"No progress has been made on the political benchmarks the Iraqi government was supposed to have met already. Oil sharing legislation, the reversal of deBaathification, new election laws, scheduling of provincial elections, amending the constitution and efforts to disband the militias are all languishing either in parliament or in negotiations among the three parties."

hey look iraq cant get anything accomplished because the different parties cant agree on issues...sounds eerily similar to how our govt works

7/11/2007 3:18:16 PM

Quote :

"hey look iraq cant get anything accomplished because the different parties cant agree on issues...sounds eerily similar to how our govt works "

except our parties don't unleash their respective militias on each other and the public when they can't agree.

7/11/2007 3:21:01 PM

true, cause we are more sophisticated, so we unleash our respective smear campaigns and misinformation crusades...or just decide which company will pay us more and that bill gets passed

still though...i dont think pointing out that iraqi legislation is reaching stalemates is any kind of indication of iraq being in bad shape...i think the deaths and all that indicate its in bad shape...but not having bills and legislation held up cause the US does that shit as well as anyone

7/11/2007 3:25:29 PM

^^I'm sure Jesse Jackson fits into some kind of attack group somewhere.

7/11/2007 3:40:21 PM

So, I readily admitted to consider the source of this article, and you still attack me for it. You made this quote

Quote :

"i might as well post some fox news blogs or rush limbaugh blog entries to balance out a link to pelosi's blog btw Blind Hate i thought you werent partisan? anybody who would quote Pelosi's blog is either partisan, or a homo "

And thanks OEP for echoing my sentiments

Quote :

"if you can post some blogs or any other source showing documented good news from iraq, i think we would all like to read it. "

You then spent two more posts wasting our time crying about partisanship, without even attempting to post anything for "your side". A lot of folks here can give equal time to attacking the source, and attacking the actual information contained in the source. That is, they can look at the source, then figure out how much weight they want to give the info, and how biased that info might be, and then look for other sources in an attempt to discredit or verify the position. You, however, can't or willfully don't do this. You toil away yours posts crying about partisanship, then making partisan posts, and ultimately, when you are defeated and or have nothing else to add, will drop true gems like this

Quote :

"hey look iraq cant get anything accomplished because the different parties cant agree on issues...sounds eerily similar to how our govt works"

I mean, wow, you really stretched with that one. I am blown away that another government is having trouble reaching a consensus. You're insight is ground breaking. We need to get you on some high ranking committee positions, pronto.

Quote :

"still though...i dont think pointing out that iraqi legislation is reaching stalemates is any kind of indication of iraq being in bad shape...i think the deaths and all that indicate its in bad shape...but not having bills and legislation held up cause the US does that shit as well as anyone"

Yea, I dunno why them considering taking a 2 month vacation with no major decisions made, WHILE THEIR COUNTRY IS ON THE VERGE OF A FULL SCALE CIVIL WAR, would indicated things are in bad shape over there. Hell, if they are considering a vacation, things most be going wonderfully, right?

7/11/2007 5:15:15 PM

dont post quotes from pelosi's blog and you wont get bombasted for picking such a shitty partisan slanted biased source baldy

i'm not claiming to have good news...im simply pointing out that your source is complete garbage and absolutely nothing from it should matter

course i'm just going off the precedent that guys like sarijoul or boone set when someone posts a conservative blog and they essentially strike it from teh record

strike pelosi's blog from the record...and wtf are you doing reading pelosi's blog anyway

7/11/2007 5:18:23 PM

I DIDN'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW IT WAS PELOSIS BLOG TO BEGIN WITH YOU SHIT FOR BRAINS.

I landed on it, how, I don't even remember. I saw all the poor remarks about the war progress (which have sources for each and every one, btw), some including numbers which have no bias inherently (thanks for sarijoul in pointing that out), and unlike you, I actually dug to try and figure out what blog I was reading. Well damn, it's Pelosi's blog, should I even bother to add it to the thread or will faggots like TreeTwista not even read the contents when they see where it came from. I was right. I started to just add the quoted block (since they have sources already) and not say where it came from, but I'm up front about where the sources came from. I EVEN PUT THE FUCKING DISCLAIMER ON IT that there just had to be some positives, but it should be no surprise this source left it out. I didn't have the time to research it myself. That's what this section is for, so that multiple people contribute and we hopefully get a clearer picture. You could do us all a favor and go find some sources for "your side", rather than wasting everyones fucking time complaining about the source (for a third post now, was one not enough?), but being the troll cock smoking piece of shit you are, why would you actually take the time to find some positives in the report, or to the war, when you can just stir up trouble, and be a complete and utter nuisance and a blight on this section.

7/11/2007 5:32:44 PM

Quote :

"I DIDN'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW IT WAS PELOSIS BLOG "

thats probably because you're a fucking idiot

7/11/2007 5:33:09 PM

Who is the bigger idiot, the guy that trolls the section or the one that is attempting to have a rational discussion about "Is the surge working"?

You haven't added shit, yet. Ge the fuck out you faggot.

7/11/2007 5:41:13 PM

why couldnt you have this "rational" discussion in your old "Another thing to Bash Bush about" thread

also to answer your question, you are the bigger idiot

for even reading pelosi's blog in the first place you fuckin cocklooker

7/11/2007 5:42:05 PM

actually, both of you are fucking immature with ad homs

[Edited on July 11, 2007 at 5:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/11/2007 5:50:59 PM

^^ This is a thread about the surge you stupid dumb ass. Pelosi's comments were about the surge you shit for brains. What other fucking thread are you talking about?

7/11/2007 5:56:28 PM

could you please tone down your use of curse words

7/11/2007 5:57:23 PM

if ANYBODY has got good news to post (not just american soldiers distributing candy or playing ball with the locals), then please do.

7/12/2007 6:14:36 AM

Quote :

"Government report: Al Qaeda strongest since September 11, 2001 * Story Highlights * Despite counterterrorism efforts, al Qaeda has regained strength, report says * Report says al Qaeda has found a safe haven in the tribal areas of Pakistan * Sen. Harry Reid: It's no surprise al Qaeda has been able to reorganize * FBI has created a group of agents, analysts to examine new threats"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/11/al.qaeda.report/index.html

7/12/2007 8:12:52 AM

God damnit it Boone, don't you know you can't put a link to any slightly biased source in this thread? You can't do that shit. I'm not even going to bother discussing what you posted. I might spend 3 posts telling you how you can't post biased sources. And if your sources contain straight up numbers, so called bias free information, well I'll just ignore that, too.

7/12/2007 8:58:00 AM

Damn it, what was I thinking?

Let's spend the next five pages arguing over whether CNN's biased or not, then start a semantics debate!

7/12/2007 9:18:15 AM

^^even Boone doesnt read Pelosi's blog like you do

i dunno why he didnt make a separate thread for that CNN story though...i mean there really arent enough Iraq War threads

7/12/2007 9:56:00 AM

I guess with the Yahoo message boards closed down this has become the spot for all the bile-filled goons to argue with each other...

7/12/2007 12:37:09 PM

http://tinyurl.com/22xj7s

Oh god, an NYT article, opinion at that. Might as well just post an anvil and be done with it.

Quote :

"Middle East experts with whom I talked in recent days said that the heavy focus on Al Qaeda obscures a much more complicated situation on the ground — and perhaps a much more dangerous one around the world. “Nobody knows how many different Islamist extremist groups make up the insurgency” in Iraq, said Anthony H. Cordesman of the bipartisan Center for Strategic and International Studies. “Even when you talk about Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the idea of somehow it is the center of the insurgency is almost absurd.”"

I caught an NPR segment yesterday, which was led into by a returning commander giving a very positive account of the war in Anbar province, where GWB "clarified" his this so called report about al qaeda strength. He stated this, in a classic GWB way that we are all too familiar with

Quote :

""There is a perception in the coverage that Al Qaeda may be as strong today as they were prior to September the 11th. That's just simply not the case. I think the report will say since 2001, not prior to September the 11th, 2001,""

....since 2001, not prior to Sept 11th, 2001...oh...I see, so al Qaeda is as strong as they were since 2001, so I guess we can only assume that means the time just after 9/11, but not before...errr...hmmm

[Edited on July 13, 2007 at 8:52 AM. Reason : http://tinyurl.com/]

7/13/2007 8:51:13 AM