Quote :

" they have no afterlife"

wtf are you talking about willis?

4/15/2007 3:05:46 PM

haha, you believe in dog heaven? ok, well then this is pointless.

4/15/2007 3:06:43 PM

so you believe humans go to heaven but when anything nonhuman dies, it is over.....lol


you know you should just give up, you gonna dig to china with that hole you are digging.....

4/15/2007 3:21:49 PM

^^using your own "logic", since dogs can't talk, you really have no idea what pain is or isn't like for them then.

i agree it's cruel to allow a dog to suffer long term OR force them to live with something that can't be fixed/cured. i don't see any issue in performing procedures that will offer them a better or previous life though.

4/15/2007 4:00:44 PM

They are just animals who are inferior and subservient to humans. Their lives are simply more expendable and worth less than humans. Hence, they don't get the same treatment.

There's a reason most people would risk their lives to save a kid but not to save a pet. Let's not pretend that the line doesn't exist. The line for me stops at surgery or long term medication. It's sad to put a pet down, but it's something that's easy to get over and easy to replace.

4/15/2007 4:13:47 PM

ok guth...how about giving us an example of a "radical procedure" that you are against. And please explain how it will cause the animal to suffer. Also, please give us an example of what you consider an accepted procedure.

4/15/2007 4:23:31 PM

Quote :

"^^using your own "logic", since dogs can't talk, you really have no idea what pain is or isn't like for them then."

some things dont require being told to know that it is causing a lot of pain, without you telling me anything i would know that you were in pain after your surgery. the communication problem comes when managing the pain, without a nurse periodically asking you to list your pain level on a scale of 1 to 10 they would have a hard time managing your pain and you may be uncomfortable or over medicated. ive seen some animals obviously in pain, but the owner had an extra couple months with the pet and i guess thats all that matters right?

^how about you make a counter argument and i will respond

[Edited on April 15, 2007 at 4:47 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2007 4:44:42 PM

My dog is one of the biggest parts of my life. I'd do anything for her so long as I knew she was not suffering. A fine line does not always exist between managing a condition and making the decision to put an animal to sleep. There are so many situations where a dog can be treated or rehabilitated, with or without long term medication, that will offer it a happier, longer life. Dogs may not be able to talk, but they can certainly exhibit varying degrees of pain. Between the owner, who has spent x number of years with the dog, and the vet, who is a professional in recognizing and treating ailments, you should be able to determine when the effects of the treatment no longer outweigh the animals physical or mental state.

ok. your turn.

eta: Its obvious that there are different lines of thinking here. I'm just trying to understand yours.

[Edited on April 15, 2007 at 5:05 PM. Reason : ]

4/15/2007 5:02:15 PM

i think the race horse should of been put down a long time before it was.....it seemed that it was probably in pain most of the time....just prolonged his agony until they finally put him down.

4/15/2007 7:21:38 PM

Quote :

"i think putting a pet through major surgery is fucking cruel a good idea when a good quality of life can be extended. most times on very, very rare occassions its for the owner, not the pet, but those in no way negate the good done the vast majority of the time."

There, I fixed it for you.

Quote :

"the communication problem comes when managing the pain, without a nurse periodically asking you to list your pain level on a scale of 1 to 10 they would have a hard time managing your pain and you may be uncomfortable or over medicated."

That would only be the case if your nurse sucked. Standardized procedures exist for a reason. Vets have learned numerous ways to detect painful responses (heart and respiratory rate alone will show the majority) and understanding the anatomy is enough to realize most pain.

The only examples of this extreme nonsensical procedures are ones that my wife (a DVM and pathology resident at the vet school) tells me about where an animal has bone cancer on the snout and an owner wants the entire upper jaw removed simply to give it a few more months. These examples are EXTREMELY rare even at the vet school where the toughest cases are seen.

4/15/2007 10:26:59 PM

the vet school was who wanted to put an 18 year old dog through a bunch of shit

4/15/2007 10:31:00 PM

Quote :

"the vet school was who wanted to put an 18 year old dog through a bunch of shit"

They are doing their jobs as doctors to diagnose and assess the likelihood of success. There are going to be times when someone gets a little zealous simply because it is a teaching hospital. These doctors and soon-to-be doctors love animals so much they've dedicated a good 8-10 years of their life and a good $100,000-$200,000 to service of the animals.. they want them all to live. So when you get a student that gets a client that they think they can "fix" they can get a little ahead of themselves. But nothing is rushed at the vet school, they talk things through and usually would be pretty common sensical after some initial tests. Vets don't want to put an animal through more pain than is necessary.

Oh, and oddly enough after my last post I went to talk to my wife about it some... in the middle of talking she noticed some signs of pain on our dog and after a quick exam she seems to have an injured knee (hopefully just pulled and not torn ligaments).

4/15/2007 10:42:35 PM

Quote :

"there is no afterlife for animals"

wow, when did you discover this universal truth?

4/15/2007 11:59:08 PM

4/16/2007 12:19:35 AM

once again guth, you have no clue what you're talking about.

i love how your argument is going though. you talk a bunch of shit, then when someone calls you out (JSnail) and asks you for a specific example, you come back with "you go first".

then when it really is your turn for an answer, you give nothing.

job well done

4/16/2007 10:01:27 AM