BEER FOR EVERYBODY

4/20/2007 6:05:02 PM

The only advantage to this that I can think of would be that it would decrease the HS kids who beg me to buy them beer when I grocery shop on Friday nights.

Although it's fun taking their money and not buying them anything. Hehe.

4/20/2007 8:11:38 PM

y don't they make it like a liscenses?? make the kids take a drinkers ed course. they get a permit to buy alcohol in smaller quanities then more when they are older.

4/20/2007 11:16:36 PM

The lower age seems to work in parts of Europe. In addition, I was around when they first raised the drinking age--and I ignored it like everyone else. But I thought it was bullshit then and I still do. If the legal drinking age is 21, then draft registration and voting ages should be the same--no fucking double standards!

BTW, some of you may not remember that the Reagan administration forced states to raise the legal drinking age by withholding highway funds if they didn't. Nearly all states capitulated.

4/21/2007 1:12:24 AM

during carter administration, all states forced to lower speed limits by withholding highway funds.
during reagan admin., all states forced to enact seatbelt laws or lose highway funds
during bush I admin, all states forced to enact helmet laws or lose highway funds
during bush I admin, all states forced to adopt MLK day as a holiday or lose highway funds.

wait.

what was your point?

4/21/2007 1:52:50 AM

Quote :

"AROUND THE NATION; Texas and North Carolina Raise Drinking Age to 21 AP Published: September 1, 1986 Starting Monday, people under 21 years old will not be able to quench their thirst with alcoholic drinks in Texas and North Carolina as those states become the latest to raise their legal drinking age. Officials estimate that the new laws will affect more than 477,000 19- and 20-year-old drinkers in Texas and about 300,000 in North Carolina. States have been raising the drinking age because of a law that cuts the Federal highway funds of states with drinking ages below 21. Eight states and the District of Columbia still sell alcoholic drinks to customers under 21."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE7DE173EF932A3575AC0A960948260

PS: I think you mean, "[W]hat was your point pwnt?"


[Edited on April 21, 2007 at 2:31 AM. Reason : .]

4/21/2007 2:09:01 AM

if ppl less than 21 can buy alcohol, ill lose business selling alcohol to them..

4/21/2007 5:25:08 AM

I can understand the reason why the drinking age is 21. I drank underage. I think the problem is not the legal drinking age but the actual enforcement of alcohol laws to "prevent underage drinking."

I am not sure what the political motivation is but i think it is ridiculous at the money and police man power used to stop underage 18-20 year olds from drinking. While my car is being broken into or some 30 year old guy is driving back from the bar with a 0.18 BAC; somewhere in raleigh Officer Hardass is doing his duty handing out underage drinking tickets to 19 year olds at a stupid party.

[Edited on April 21, 2007 at 4:12 PM. Reason : l]

4/21/2007 4:10:13 PM

i see way too many damned retarded freshman and sophomores running around campus to make me NOT advocate lowering the drinking age

especially the guys, they're just not mature enough to handle it

i'm a guy too

4/21/2007 7:30:12 PM

LOWERING THE LEGAL AGE WOULD DEFINITELY CUT DOWN ON "UNDERAGE" DRINKING. IT IS CLEARLY THE CHEAPEST SOLUTION AND WOULD WASTE NO TAX DOLLARS ON ENFORCEMENT

5/26/2007 2:28:46 PM

Quote :

"why not look at the example of other countries, like european countries, and china. the drinking age there varies from 14 to 18, and they have a hell of a lot less drinking deaths and accidents by teens. why wouldn't that work here in the US? or are those of you in favour of a higher legal age saying that US teens are somehow genetically inferior when it comes to responsibility compared to european and chinese teens?"

Want to look at Europe? There are still nearly 10,000 road deaths per year attributed to impaired driving. And SUPRISE, the 14-25 age group is the highest risk.

Compare that to the US with about 18,000 road deaths per year attributed to DUI.

Sure we have twice as many, but we also have 10 times the number of cars on the road. So I HARDLY think Europe is a good model to follow.

But I still think it should be lowered to 18. First, because of the conscription argument that has already been posed. Second is the college life. You allow kids to drink on campus, they will not be driving to bars, and the schools and administration can do much more to teach responsbility and allow kids to make mistakes with far less deadly consequences.

5/26/2007 4:19:33 PM

You can't use Europe anyway because they drive on the wrong side of the road.

5/26/2007 5:49:32 PM

human brain development doesnt fully complete until the early-to-mid twenties.

the last part of the brain to finally and fully develop is the part that handles judgement.

physiologically speaking, there are numerous reasons why its a bad idea to let kids under 21 drink alcohol.

even 21 might be too soon.

i say we just lower the BAC level for DUIs to maybe 0.05 or even 0.03. and make the punishments more punitive as to monetary fines, losing license, and (for repeat offenders) jail time. and make it across the board, so rich kids can't buy their way out of it.

5/26/2007 6:04:55 PM

Quote :

"Sure we have twice as many, but we also have 10 times the number of cars on the road."

good to see you're just inventing numbers there.

5/26/2007 6:26:46 PM

Yea, okay so the actual numbers from 2004 (Taken from Census.gov and EuroStat) are

469 vehicles per 1000 people in the EU
771 vehicles per 1000 people in the US (61% more)

So there are about 20% more cars in the US.

Total passenger miles traveled:

EU 2,761,390,360,000
US 2,963,000,000,000

Total population:

EU 486,520,347
US 296,639,000 (36% less)

Miles traveled per person:
EU 5675
US 9989 (56.8% more)

Drunk Driving Fatalities (In 2005, reported by the NHTSA, and ETSC):

EU 41,600
US 16,885

So let's see. We have more cars on the road, we travel FAR more per person by passenger vehicles, we have a far smaller population and less than HALF the reported fatalities that the EU does.

Funny, I went and looked up all the legit statistics, and they basically show that the EU has a FAR worse problem with drunk driving (especially with the 14-25 demographic) than the US does. HMMMM

5/26/2007 8:27:02 PM

Quote :

"make the punishments more punitive as to monetary fines, losing license, and (for repeat offenders) jail time. and make it across the board, so rich kids can't buy their way out of it."

good luck getting that happen in america, where money talks.

5/26/2007 8:53:39 PM

I advocate no drinking age... like people said let them learn to drink BEFORE they learn to drive and there might be less drunk driving... kinda a weak argument but eh whatever...

more likely to actually get pushed through would be a 19y/o drinking age like canada... eliminates HS students, gets most college kids and 19 y/o's are mostly as responsible as people in their early 20's

would make more young hot bodies(I prefer chicks but I won't descriminate against others ) more available at bars...

5/26/2007 9:25:20 PM

Quote :

" regardless of drinking age this is the root problem.....kids are told that alcohol is off limits until age x, and never taught to be responsible with it. So, they cut loose when they have the chance, instead of being educated and responsible with it."

5/26/2007 10:17:55 PM

drinking age should be abolished.

driving age should be raised to 20, or when HS diploma is received.

5/26/2007 10:27:07 PM

drinking age should be raised to 25.

take away the drivers licenses of anyone under 25 caught drinking.

5/27/2007 5:29:33 AM

well being 25... I honestly don't think thats a horrible idea from the standpoint of it takes all the HS kids and all the college kids (ugrad) out of the picture. Also would make the bar scene entirely adult(not a great thing depending on your goals)...

BUT drinking is a social order, drinking is something that will(can) create networks of people that you know that are much broader than you would normally ever come across. Social drinking is an important thing to learn expecially to learn your limits so when you do go out with a client or your boss or whoever you can be social but know where your limits are and not make a fool out of yourself.

Non drinkers often have an "I'm better than you" stigma and look down upon drunkenness. I do not advocate drunk driving, or drinking yourself into a coma, but the social aspects of drinking can't be ignored. I've met far far more people that I liked and hung out with outside of drinking events than I ever did church, class or work. So to raise the legal drinking age to 25 most likely wouldn't curb underage drinking it would just push it further underground for a longer period of time.

Now if you wanted to say something along the lines of tougher DUI inforcement for people under 25 then thats a load of crap because people over 25 SHOULD be responsible enough to not get a DUI by the same logic. So the DUI should be MORE strict in that case b/c you've proven that you SHOULD be a grown mature adult and you simply haven't accepted that.

5/27/2007 10:25:32 AM

just automatically take the person's driver license away for 2 years when they get a DUI.

5/27/2007 10:48:41 AM

wakefield always had the best parties. when i was like a junior i met a chick at one and she died in a car wreck a few weeks later up in virginia.

5/27/2007 11:22:56 AM

^they have the best parties because most of them are rich, spoiled kids with money to throw around. That's why I have no sympathy for them.

5/27/2007 11:42:58 AM

I guess I'm one of the very few that are in favor of the drinking age being 18 (or maybe just after having received your highschool diploma). almost everyone in college has a car, if everyone in college could drink then they could just walk up to hillborough to a bar instead of driving to a friend's house.

5/27/2007 12:09:47 PM

Well, states could easily lower it at any time, if they felt that they didn't need the federal highway funding...obviously, that won't be the case for North Carolina any time soon.

5/27/2007 1:16:24 PM

Quote :

"The U.S. culture toward Alcohol and Alcohol education is what needs to change."

While other cultures can allow kids to drink as teenagers and can legalize drugs with few detrimental repercussions, American culture seems too gluttonous in general to allow for anything like that to occur.

[Edited on May 27, 2007 at 2:14 PM. Reason : ]

5/27/2007 2:11:49 PM

I guess I'm one of the very few that are in favor of the drinking age being 18 (or maybe just after having received your highschool diploma). almost everyone in college has a car, if everyone in college could drink then they could just walk up to hillborough to a bar instead of driving to a friend's house.



but they wouldnt be that smart

5/27/2007 2:21:06 PM

it's not a question of smart. it's a question of laziness.

They wouldn't even walk up to hillsborough st. They would buy kegs and cases and drink on campus.

And I am for the 18 drinking age.

5/27/2007 2:43:28 PM

^^ so you are, as an underager saying that you wouldn't like to drink legally now?

5/27/2007 4:09:14 PM

i am 21 now

5/27/2007 7:51:40 PM

I think the drinking age should be 18. Also, I believe that there would be as much issue of a 21 year drinking age if the politician and the cops didn't make cracking down underage drinking such an issue. Is it really fucking necessary to pay $1000's for NC Gestapo to walk around the football tailgates to make sure that no 19 year old college studnets are drinking a beer or stake out a food lion trying to catch people buying a 12-pack for there 20 year old friend.

I also think it is ridiculous how every debate about the drinking age always introducing Drunk driving. We all know that once you turn 21 that adults do not drink and drive . Drinking and driving is a separate issue and should be dealt with when it occurs.

5/28/2007 5:19:22 PM

I really don't think you can bundle all the EU countries into one and attribute road death statistics to a single factor. For instance, in Ireland, infrastructure is definitely an issue. Our road system is lagging our economy by 20 years.

You're much better off comparing individual countries with the US.

Quote :

"Britain now has one of the lowest road death rates in the EU at less than six per 100,000 people. Indeed Britain is one of the safest countries in the world to drive, much better than Japan (7.9 per 100,000), Australia (9.0) and the US (14.8). Ireland meanwhile continues to perform poorly with almost 10 deaths per 100,000 people."

So there are three countries with drinking ages of 18 (Ireland, UK and Australia) and they all have lower road death rates than the US.


[Edited on May 28, 2007 at 5:57 PM. Reason : ...]

5/28/2007 5:43:01 PM

OK, how about this rule?
"No age limit on drinking, but if you get a DUI, you're going to jail for 5 years."

5/28/2007 5:52:11 PM

id be fine with that even now

5/28/2007 7:07:05 PM

ALL THESE PEOPLE AT MADD SAY THEY WANT TO CUT DOWN ON UNDERAGE DRINKING, THEY NEED TO QUIT FUCKING AROUND AND REDUCE THE DRINKING AGE. ALL THIS PREVENTION CRAP DOES NOT WORK.

5/29/2007 1:05:44 AM

MADD is an organization against all drinking, really, in the end. The original mother who founded it isn't even involved anymore. they're going to keep pushing for lower limits and higher ages till it's prohibtion. Or they wont be happy. But that's just becuase it's gotten into the hand of a lot of really nutty soccer moms. Not really relevant to the debate.

That said, I'm still of the grounds that if you can die in Iraq for your country, you're old enough to drink.

5/29/2007 4:42:37 PM

well, if we had no drinking laws, then no one could "drink underage".

that's terrible logic

5/29/2007 4:48:28 PM

I thought that if you were in the military then you could drink on base, even if you are younger than 21^^...I believe its 18 on base, but i dont know if that applies to all circumstances

[Edited on May 29, 2007 at 4:53 PM. Reason : ff]



[Edited on May 29, 2007 at 4:55 PM. Reason : i do what i want]

5/29/2007 4:52:57 PM

Quote :

"Proving super-low limits and aggressive prosecution have solved the DUI problem once and for all, drunk driving deaths hit highest point in 14 years"

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/217814

May 25, 2007 05:23 PM
Reuters

WASHINGTON – Alcohol-related deaths on U.S. roads rose to their highest level in 14 years in 2006, while the overall number of people killed in traffic crashes declined slightly but still topped 43,000, according to preliminary government estimates Friday.

The Transportation Department said that drunken driving deaths rose 2.4 percent to 17,941 after a slight decline in 2005. It was the highest level since 1992 when 18,290 deaths were reported.

Alcohol-related fatalities accounted for 41 percent of all traffic deaths, which dropped less than 1 percent last year to 43,300. Annual auto deaths have hovered around 43,000 for the past five years.

The number of fatal crashes remained virtually unchanged at just over 39,000, and most victims, 55 percent, were not wearing seat belts, the government said.

More than 2.5 million people were hurt in auto crashes.

5/29/2007 4:53:52 PM

^

Quote :

"ALL THIS PREVENTION CRAP DOES NOT WORK. "

steering wheel alcohol testers ftw

5/29/2007 4:57:01 PM

Lower the legal age for tobacco to 12...that way you will have a lot less underaged smokers and dippers

5/29/2007 4:59:04 PM

Quote :

"MADD is an organization against all drinking"

5/29/2007 5:08:00 PM

Quote :

"all the college kids (ugrad) out of the picture."

b.c i am sure you were a good american citizen and did not drink before being 21 b.c it is the law.

MADD is full of whiny bitches. Underage drinking and Drunk Driving are two completely separate issues. they would be better off trying to ban bars.

Maybe if there was no drinking age and parents TAUGHT their kids responsible drinking then drunk driving might actually decrease. Kids would go to college and drinking alcohol would just not be a big deal instead of kids are set loose and go overboard after being exposed to alcohol for the first time. Also, has someone else said students be less likely to risk drinking and driving since they could drink in there dorms instead of having to sneak to a 3rd party location to drink. I know at private universities depending on the college, drinking laws are less strictly enforced. Partly b.c that would rather have kids partying on campus and walking back to there rooms rather then driving around the city drunk.

Expecting for young adults to abstain from drinking till 21 is like enforcing sexual abstinence till marriage, it is battle you cannot win especially after kids leave there parents homes following high school

5/29/2007 9:33:00 PM

the difference is, pre-college, there is at least a semblance of parental responsibility keeping kids on the up and up.

the likelyhood of death by drunk driving raises dramatically after high school, presumably because kids no longer have their parents to answer to. keeping the kids on campus and on foot would help greatly.

i think it would also help the large non-college going population as well. you have an 18 year old legally drinking in a bar, I think they would be MUCH more likely to call for a cab or ask for help, than someone trying to drink illegally would be.

5/29/2007 11:52:47 PM

not to burst all ya all's bubble but I think this has about as much of chance of happening as the fair tax, or actual reductions in federal spending. Sure there's popular support, but its political suicide when the rubber hits the road.

5/30/2007 3:38:05 AM

It might be somewhat of a cliche.. but if you are old enough to fight and die for your country, you're old enough to have a drink.

5/30/2007 7:14:24 AM

Quote :

"b.c i am sure you were a good american citizen and did not drink before being 21 b.c it is the law."

see every other post I've made in this thing... I've been saying no drinking age also... and proposed 19 along with a logical argument.

I COULD possibly understand the argument for 25 but I would highly dissagree with it for all the reasons I mentioned in the post that you pulled the ugrad quote from me from.

People that want to get shitfaced are going to get shitfaced. if you give them a way to get around easier, like the nightwolf buses... they are going to be less likely to drive (not exclusively though).

Problem with cabs are they are expensive on a college budget... $10 for a cab home when you only spent $8 getting drunk at dollar night doesn't work on a college budget... I'm NOT saying drive home (I walked if it was from hillsbourough street) I'm just saying that cabs aren't going to be a first choice for some people.

5/30/2007 7:39:14 AM

I've been drinking since i was about 17. From then until i turned 21, I always wanted to party and drink with my friends any chance I could get. If someone was doing a beer run, i couldn't pass up the opportunity i had to get some since it was a rare opportunity. Pretty much most of the time i would drink, i would basically get drunk (or at least very tipsy), just like everyone else. After turning 21, I'm just not inclined to party or drink that much anymore. Like if im out at a restaurant i might order a beer, or with a couple of friends, might grab a 12 pack and have a few while shooting pool, but its like the whole "wild party" scene, just seems so unattractive now. I dont know whether its burnout, or just the lack of "everyone doing it", or just maturity from being older, but the more years you spend drinking, the less "glamorous" it seems.

[Edited on May 30, 2007 at 9:39 AM. Reason : this statement supports lower drinking age]

5/30/2007 9:33:39 AM

What about the underage kids who die of alchohol poisoning because their friends won't call an ambulance for fear of a drinking ticket? Why is nobody thinking of them???

5/30/2007 10:30:48 AM