The Lakers shot 44% as a team yesterday, which is better than Kobe's 38% average

4/30/2007 2:19:53 PM

Those who think otherwise are WRONG.

If you think Dirk has already won the MVP, you are mistaken (Even if they say its done based on the regular season).

If the Warriors finsih off the Mavs, Nash wins the MVP, sparking a debate on when exactly the MVP is decided.

4/30/2007 2:20:25 PM

Also, the "adjusted field goal" percentage that ESPN uses is flawed.

It does not account for free throws which makes it inaccurate.

Everytime Kobe goes in for a layup he is hacked, so you must take those FT's into consideration as well.


I promise you when you account for free throws his adjusted FG% is much higher

4/30/2007 2:23:22 PM

Quote :

"Dallas Mavericks wins from 2000-2003 (w/ Nash) 53, 57, 60, 52 Dallas Mavericks wins from 2004-2006 (w/o Nash) 58, 60, 67 Where is the drop off"

Why don't you show us the Lakers wins with Shaq and the Lakers wins without Shaq?

Then talk to us about dropoff.

4/30/2007 2:26:23 PM

I don't think you will find anyone who will say Shaq wasn't great.

Shaq deserved MVP the year Nash got it the first time.

4/30/2007 2:30:14 PM

Shaq is great, but 23 pts and 10 boards per game is hardly MVP-worthy.

The first time that Duncan got it, Shaq was robbed.


[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 2:41 PM. Reason : 2]

4/30/2007 2:39:22 PM

I think the overall point is that Nash is a better TEAM PLAYER than Kobe... Out on the streets, Kobe can take MVP. But in a 5-on-5 system, Nash is the more valuable player

4/30/2007 3:32:14 PM

^ x4

4/30/2007 3:45:41 PM

Words can't describe how sick I am of hearing the "Kobe's team sucks, that's why he can't get assist" argument. You peeps are really running that one into the ground,man.

Quote :

"If you think Dirk has already won the MVP, you are mistaken (Even if they say its done based on the regular season)."

Well spoken. Fact-tacular.

4/30/2007 5:24:46 PM

Quote :

"Fact-tacular."

Quote :

"Fact-tacular."

Quote :

"Fact-tacular."

awesome

4/30/2007 5:32:44 PM

You redneck piece of shit Earl.

Steve Nash is a POINT GUARD. He is supposed to average more assists than a SHOOTING GUARD.

Kobe average 6 assists from the SG position. How many other SG's do that? Lebron, T-Mac, and D-Wade and that is it.

None of them are as efficient and as deadly at scoring as Kobe.


How is the teammates argument getting old? Does Nash consistently outplay Kobe? No.

Do Amare and Marion consistently outperform Kwame Brown and Luke Walton? Yes.

Did you see Amare get 20+ rebounds yesterday? Did you seen Marion's numbers?

Now check out how horrible of a game the ENTIRE supporting cast of the Lakers had.

Then get back to me.



THe Lakers have a shitty team and the Suns have a good one, period.

Does Garnett suck too?

4/30/2007 5:40:48 PM

Player Efficiency Rankings for the regular season

1) Wade
2) Nowitzki
3) Yao
4) Duncan
5) Kobe
.
.
9) Ginobili
.
.
12) Nash
.
.
16) Zach Randolph


There you go, Nash is a terrific PG. He's ranked right there between Ginobili and Zach Randolph (two borderline all-stars). Let's just not confuse him as a legitimate MVP candidate.


He's playing great in the postseason right?

Postseason rankings

1) Jamison
2) Stoudemire
3) Lebron
4) Kidd
5) Baron
6) Kobe
.
.
.
.
12) TJ Ford
.
14) Nash
.
.
17) Barbosa
.
.
.
.
.

39) Marion
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

63) Odom




Shut it.

4/30/2007 5:55:00 PM

Quote :

"You redneck piece of shit Earl."

Man is this really called for, seriously RDU? I'm from Boston but I'm a redneck.

As hard as I try to be decent and keep racism/vulgar language out of these conversations, you're just so determined to the contrary. I realy fail to understand here.

All I say is, come with a stronger more palatable argument that exceeds your double standard zealous fanatic obsession of Kobe Bryant. Is that hard for you to do?

*Why was Kobe booed when he accepted his first MVP in a dad-gom ALL-Star game?
*He has quite some catching up to do if is sooo like Jordan in that MVP count, don't ya think?

Only thing he's good at is raping white women and accepting All-Star MVPs'.He's a thug. Factoid.


[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 6:47 PM. Reason : /]

4/30/2007 6:34:34 PM

4/30/2007 6:45:38 PM

^^ Well said. Nash defines white supremecy

[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 8:23 PM. Reason : m]

4/30/2007 8:22:57 PM

So according to Rally for football is about a player's talent and ability. See Michael Vick.

For basketball, it is about stats and rankings. See Kobe Bryant.

What gives Rally??? And when are you going to answer my question from above about the Lakers' win totals????

4/30/2007 10:22:04 PM

It's always about talent, ability, and production for any sport.

Football is more of a team sport than basketball. You are only 1 of 11th of your team on the field at any given time and since almost no one plays two ways you can only do so much. That is why several elite players never won championships (Marino, Barry Sanders, etc)

Basketball is a team sport but one player has way more control over a game. That is why elite players like Kobe Bryant can take a poor team and help them win a lot of games.

Or why 2 elite players (MJ and Pippen, Kobe and Shaq) can win multiple championships with a collection of solid role players.



The Lakers had a dropoff when Shaq left because at the time Shaq was the most dominant post player in the NBA. When did I ever say Shaq wasn't a great player?

When Dallas lost Nash they became a better team. Not because Nash is a bad player. But because he is replaceable and they replaced him with a capable PG and Dirk developed into an elite player.

If you replaced Kobe with a good SG like Ray Allen they'd miss the playoffs obviously. (Look at the Sonics)

If you replaced Nash with a good PG like Deron Williams they'd probably be a #4 or #5 seed in the West. They'd get a more capable defender and that would offset some of the offensive production they'd lose. Also, Bairbosa and Stoudemire could easily step up to shoulder more of the offensive responsibilities so they'd be just fine. You'll see what I'm talking about in ~3 years when Nash is gone.

Nash is a great PG, you're just misinformed if you think he's more valuable than Kobe Bryant.

Think about it for a second. Dallas let Nash walk as an unrestricted free agent. No one would let the best player in basketball just skip town for no reason. Dallas thought they'd be better served investing the money in other positions and replacing Nash with a cheaper option with a minor dropoff in production. Seemed to have worked.



[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 10:33 PM. Reason : a]

4/30/2007 10:30:37 PM

Quote :

"Nash is a great PG, you're just misinformed if you think he's more valuable than Kobe Bryant."

It's a crying shame that you only defend this by using the weaker team/ates ployment tactic.

You're simply wrong most of the time dude. I'd appreciate it if you stayed out of my threads with your favortism and grossly misleading subjective reasoning. It's getting really [old].

[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 10:51 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2007 10:41:16 PM

if the lakers had traded kobe instead of shaq my money says they would have won another championship or two.... guy has talent but he is greedy and doesn't play well with others = not a championship contender

and nobody seems to remember, but lamar odom had quite a bit of talent and tons of potential before he came to LA to play alongside kobe.... downhill ever since....coincidence? doubitful

4/30/2007 10:54:50 PM

if they had kept Caron Butler instead of trading him for Kwame they'd be a hell of a lot better

still only the 5th or 6th team in the West, but with Kobe, Caron, Lamar and Bynum they're a decent point guard away from being legit

smush is fecal

4/30/2007 10:56:41 PM

^^ Ha ha, flamed him. Great post.

4/30/2007 11:01:39 PM

It would have been a great post if it was close to true, but unfortunately it's not. Odom has shot significantly better since becoming a Laker. In fact, 4-5% a year better. More rebounds per game, better FG%, about the same points per game, and fewer turnovers per game.

[Edited on April 30, 2007 at 11:52 PM. Reason : x]

4/30/2007 11:52:24 PM

Quote :

"No one would let the best player in basketball just skip town for no reason. "

That best basketball player is the same one the Hornets traded for Vlade fucking Divac.

You are just talking out of your ass now. And still nothing on Vick?

4/30/2007 11:53:37 PM

one word... barbeque

4/30/2007 11:54:52 PM

^^
How many games had Kobe played when that trade happened?
How many games had Divac played when that happened?
How many games had Nash played when he was dropped?

Try to make a valid comparison at some point.

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 12:03 AM. Reason : sdf]

5/1/2007 12:03:36 AM

Quote :

"If you replaced Kobe with a good SG like Ray Allen they'd miss the playoffs obviously. (Look at the Sonics) If you replaced Nash with a good PG like Deron Williams they'd probably be a #4 or #5 seed in the West. They'd get a more capable defender and that would offset some of the offensive production they'd lose. Also, Bairbosa and Stoudemire could easily step up to shoulder more of the offensive responsibilities so they'd be just fine. You'll see what I'm talking about in ~3 years when Nash is gone."

yay!! someone knows what they're talking about! Hell, give the lakers Michael Redd and they still don't sniff 30 wins.

5/1/2007 12:08:03 AM

Lebron's players are just as good as Kobe's, but Lebron does a much better job of including them all to have a better Overall production

5/1/2007 2:44:40 AM

I thought this thread was about Marcus Nash... which is sad... and also shows how little I even think about the NBA

5/1/2007 2:50:56 AM

I think Nash is a hell of alot more fun to watch then Kobe....the passes are sick. My 2 cents. Kobe has some good moves, but nothing beats a pass threaded thru 2 or 3 players for an insane dunk. Nash for MVP bitches.

5/1/2007 3:11:08 AM

Quote :

"Lebron's players are just as good as Kobe's, but Lebron does a much better job of including them all to have a better Overall production"

hell yeah, he got them to beat the wizards (who happened to be w/o their best 2 players)!! He's the man. Lebron plays in the NBA JV league, so lets stop discussing eastern conference basketball now.

5/1/2007 8:03:14 AM

you mean the conference with the last 3 champions?

5/1/2007 9:41:40 AM

^ you mean 2 of the last three?

5/1/2007 10:25:58 AM

yeah my bad

5/1/2007 10:36:40 AM

having one or two good teams does not make the conference good.


see big least and big 10.

5/1/2007 10:39:51 AM

oh, and acc which duke and unc have carried for decades.

This thread is hilarious... only because Earl just rides the coattails of people who actually know something about the NBA..

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 4:21 PM. Reason : x]

5/1/2007 4:20:05 PM

maryland has a nc
virginia was really good for a bit
ncsu has 2 nc's
wake was solid for a while

5/1/2007 4:28:56 PM

CHIPENDAVE,

Quote :

"and nobody seems to remember, but lamar odom had quite a bit of talent and tons of potential before he came to LA to play alongside kobe.... downhill ever since....coincidence? doubitful"

What the hell are you talking about??? Lamar Odom averaged 16 pts 10 boards and 5 assists this year. the only season he ever averaged 10 rebounds a game was with the lakers. His assists are as high as they have always been. His points are about the same (the most he ever averaged for a season was 17.2)

Quote :

"if the lakers had traded kobe instead of shaq my money says they would have won another championship or two.... guy has talent but he is greedy and doesn't play well with others = not a championship contender "

if the lakers had traded Kobe, Shaq would have retired by now and the lakers would have struggled mightily in the west to make the playoffs


i wish people that are going to post on NBA threads would watch the damn games first so they will know what they are talking about. [b]

5/1/2007 4:29:30 PM

No Shaq-led team has ever struggled mightily to make the playoffs. This year was the first year since his 2nd year in the league that his team didn't advance past the first round. That should tell you a lot about his impact on a team.

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 4:41 PM. Reason : 2]

5/1/2007 4:40:44 PM

Shaq is a center.

Centers carry teams easier than guards do. That's just the nature of basketball.


Shaq was a great player but he's at the end of his rope.

He can't elevate anymore so he can't make his patented half hooks. He can't move laterally so he's a defensive liability. He's really a borderline All-Star caliber center at this point even when he is healthy.


It was a good trade for the Lakers to get Odom and Butler for Shaq, they just fucked up by souring on Butler two seasons too early.

5/1/2007 4:46:06 PM

Well...the proof is in the pudding. If, by any means, Nash dosn't victor. He will place higher than Kobe within votes. Fact.

5/1/2007 8:01:12 PM

Claiming that something will occur in the future isn't a "fact" earl. It's a "prediction." Fact.

5/1/2007 8:19:49 PM

You know, there's a thin line between being a "moderator" and a "troll".

5/1/2007 8:53:13 PM

Repercussions non withstanding, that was a hell of a line by Earl.

5/1/2007 9:04:22 PM

on any other team lamar odom averages 20+ & 10 and consistently makes the all star team and is probably even considered one of the premeir pf's in the league. yeah his numbers are about the same as when he came to LA, but he came to LA with tons of POTENTIAL, and nothing has came of it playing alongside kobe. the guy is too timid to be dominant for fear that he will steal some of kobe's glory and get shipped out of town. and it's kind of hard to be dominant when you have to suck all the time so all the kobe lovers can blame it on you and the rest of the team when the lakers fail to advance in the playoffs. imagine the kind of pressure that guy is under? he knows it kobe's team and anything he does against that is his job, and he also has to live with all you guys talking about how crappy of a player he is just so they have an excuse for why their beloved kobe didn't advance in the playoffs.

kobe has plenty of talent to win a championship, he even has a good enough team right now to do it. he has as much to work with right now as jordan had on a couple of those championship teams. jordan made his guys better around him though instead of bringing them down. when kobe can learn to adjust his attitude and use some of his immense talent in a positive way, then he will be the mvp

5/2/2007 6:47:10 AM

Yeah, he turns the ball over and misses point blank layups because he's afraid of stealing Kobe's thunder. The knock on him has always been that he's inconsistent and nowadays he's both inconsistent and always injured. I guess he's getting injured to make sure he doesn't usurp the team from Kobe, right?

This is two threads in a row you've posted something moronic in. Try not to make it three, please.

5/2/2007 8:49:26 AM

Quote :

"kobe has plenty of talent to win a championship, he even has a good enough team right now to do it. he has as much to work with right now as jordan had on a couple of those championship teams."

Whaaaaaat?

You think Odom is as good as Pippen?

You think the rest of the Lakers are as good as the Bulls were?

Pippen almost led the bulls to the championship game, could have won regular season MVP, and DID win all-star game MVP, WITHOUT JORDAN!

I think we have a challenger to Earl in the dumbest sports talk poster category.

[Edited on May 2, 2007 at 9:25 AM. Reason : I guess Kwame Brown and Luke Walton are as good as Rodman and Kucoc]

5/2/2007 9:23:23 AM

Quote :

"If you think Dirk has already won the MVP, you are mistaken (Even if they say its done based on the regular season)."

Best player on the best team. They won 67. He's the MVP this year, even if he's not having the best first round of the playoffs. I wouldn't mind if Nash and Nowitzki were co-MVPs, but if I had a vote, I'm giving it to Dirk.

5/2/2007 9:32:48 AM

I haven't read through all of this, but I saw where some people were saying it's not Kobe's fault he doesn't get more assists, because his teammates can't shoot.

Well, Nash was just saying the other day that he was trying to draw more pressure to himself before shooting, drawing the double teams, etc. He said he was making a conscious effort to hold the ball longer, because he knew that the extra time would help his teammates get better shots off.

So when you think about it like that, it very well could be Kobe's fault that the other Lakers can't score as much. Shots are create by an assist man, it's not just pass it to the man who is open. He is more likely to BE open if you have done the right things with the ball and put yourself in the right position to attract defenders.

5/2/2007 9:57:56 AM

^and Nash also has a team of much better shooters than Kobe does

Quote :

"kobe has plenty of talent to win a championship, [bbhe even has a good enough team right now to do it[/b]"

lol

5/2/2007 10:00:49 AM

Quote :

"So when you think about it like that, it very well could be Kobe's fault that the other Lakers can't score as much. Shots are create by an assist man, it's not just pass it to the man who is open. He is more likely to BE open if you have done the right things with the ball and put yourself in the right position to attract defenders."

So what you're saying is that Kobe Bryant doesn't attract defenders?

5/2/2007 11:16:16 AM