Quote :

"Spain, Denmark, Britain, Us, Australia, Indonesia.."

those attacks are relatively recent, and i believe those are countries that supported us when we invaded iraq

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 2:10 PM. Reason : jank]

5/18/2007 2:10:01 PM

Ok, so now we really are rationalizing everything.


Maybe you should apply for positions for Al Qaeda's Ministry of Information and Propaganda.

5/18/2007 2:10:44 PM

^^ so it must be ok that they attacked us and those countries?

5/18/2007 2:11:24 PM

i think you are confusing rationalize with justify when you seek to insult moderates (myself) and liberals

why is it soooo difficult to recognize cause and effect?

never said OR implied that it was ok. i was simply stating reasons behind the attacks. again you are not understanding

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 2:13 PM. Reason : jank]

5/18/2007 2:12:21 PM

BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT RECOGNIZING THE CAUSE IN THAT THE FREAKIN KORAN INSTRUCTS THIS!

It's written in the Koran that the ONLY way to get into heaven is to kill yourself for Allah in Jihad. Or else you could be sent to hell although you were a good, practicing Muslim. THE ONLY for sure entrance into heaven is to kill yourself.

You don't think that is motivation enough? You are blind if you think that the Koran is insignificant in this debate.

5/18/2007 2:17:15 PM

um i don't believe so. in fact it's worded much like the christian's bible

[7.40] Surely (as for) those who reject Our communications and turn away from them haughtily, the doors of heaven shall not be opened for them, nor shall they enter the garden until the camel pass through the eye of the needle; and thus do We reward the guilty.

kinda like "no one enters heaven but through me (jesus)"

hmm a little more searching reveals this:

The Disbelievers

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109.5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 2:24 PM. Reason : asdf]

5/18/2007 2:23:05 PM

again, did you read nothing about what I said about the conflicting messages of mohammad? No you didn't. And until you read and see that the prophet himself instructs muslims to kill christians and jews, you will rationalize.

5/18/2007 2:25:22 PM

yes and it is the same in the bible

5/18/2007 2:27:02 PM

really dude? JESUS THE SON OF GOD AND THE PROPHET OF CHRISTIANITY TOLD ME TO KILL NO ONE

Quote :

"Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back, take them and kill them wherever you find them... -Mohmmad, Surah 4:89"

explain plz

5/18/2007 2:27:33 PM

26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, "Whoever is for the LORD, come to me." And all the Levites rallied to him.

27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.

5/18/2007 2:31:36 PM

Quote :

"he likes to remind everyone that he's not a conservative"

actually, he likes to remind everyone that he is a conservative, and many republican politicians aren't

5/18/2007 2:38:01 PM

Quote :

"It's written in the Koran that the ONLY way to get into heaven is to kill yourself for Allah in Jihad. Or else you could be sent to hell although you were a good, practicing Muslim. THE ONLY for sure entrance into heaven is to kill yourself."

Show us where it says that exact thing, Oeuvre, or STFU and leave TSB forever.

You can't just come in here and make up completely false statements thinking people will fall for them hook line and sinker.

5/18/2007 2:44:12 PM

not to mention the fact that assuming you're correct, it says "kill yourself"

that doesn't mean take people with you oeuvre

idiot

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 2:49 PM. Reason : l;kj]

5/18/2007 2:48:48 PM

You answered this:

Quote :

"JESUS THE SON OF GOD AND THE PROPHET OF CHRISTIANITY TOLD ME TO KILL NO ONE"

with this:

Quote :

"26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, "Whoever is for the LORD, come to me." And all the Levites rallied to him. 27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. "

Okay, call me crazy... but quoting Old Testament verses when someone talks about the teachings of Jesus is moronic. What you quoted in NO WAY contradicted what he said.


Christian culture/tradition has evolved and become very progressive/humanistic, Islamic culture/tradition has not made that leap. Islam was spread through violence from it's very beginning while Christianity was not. You can't argue that. Mohammad himself waged war against those who opposed him while Jesus was a pretty much a pacifist.

5/18/2007 2:53:49 PM

that's right, i forgot you christians pick and choose

either the whole book is valid, or none of it is

if it's possible to pick and choose then the muslims can do it too


by the way, we're not talking about jesus, we're talking about the gods of each religion

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:04 PM. Reason : jank]

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:06 PM. Reason : asdf]

5/18/2007 3:04:42 PM

Can't get around it... you can't get around the fact that Muhammad told his follower to kill christians and jews.

5/18/2007 3:17:22 PM

Quote :

"It's written in the Koran that the ONLY way to get into heaven is to kill yourself for Allah in Jihad. Or else you could be sent to hell although you were a good, practicing Muslim. THE ONLY for sure entrance into heaven is to kill yourself."

Show us where it says that exact thing, Oeuvre, or STFU and leave TSB forever.

You can't just come in here and make up completely false statements thinking people will fall for them hook line and sinker.

5/18/2007 3:21:12 PM

Don't feed the troll.

5/18/2007 3:21:28 PM

Ron Paul's comment at the debate was basically a troll comment

5/18/2007 3:26:05 PM

You should know a lot about it then

5/18/2007 3:29:13 PM

great contribution to the thread...keep up the good work

5/18/2007 3:31:08 PM

Quote :

"Show us where it says that exact thing, Oeuvre, or STFU and leave TSB forever."

plz leave TSB forever.

Quote :

"“Unless we go forth (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty and put others in our place. Oh, true believer, take not the Jews or Christians for your friend. They cannot be trusted. They are defiled. When you encounter the infidels, strike off their heads till you have made a great slaughter against them” (Koran 9:38-39)."

ALL HAIL THE RELIGION OF PEACE!

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:38 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2007 3:37:42 PM

^^^ haha, zing!

^ Sorry, one verse, devoid of context, does not a religious philosophy make.

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:39 PM. Reason : ^]

5/18/2007 3:37:51 PM

that's what I figured. Even if I bring the substance, you can't go and research it for yourself and find the context for yourself.


I can't c/p the entire koran.

5/18/2007 3:40:08 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "while other non-Muslim countries had none?" Spain, Denmark, Britain, Us, Australia, Indonesia... "

Do you know how to read? I didn't say no other non-muslim country was attacked by Al Quaida. I said other non-muslim countries had not been attacked by Al Quaida, and this statement is true. When was the last time Switzerland had a terrorist attack?

5/18/2007 3:40:18 PM

^ um no it's not.


And I'm waiting on OEP

5/18/2007 3:42:27 PM

Quote :

"^ Because they do not practice Islam. They practice a "christianized" form of Islam"

You mean kind of like Christians today practice a different version of Christianity from the crusaders and the inquisitors? Let's ignore the fact that you still haven't answered the question of where in the Koran it says to kill Jews and Christians, and pretend like it really does say that. The Bible also contains calls to violence but modern day Christians have learned to interpret around them as have the majority of modern day Muslims. Even if the Koran does say what you claim it says, that's still not the reason Osama bin Laden gave for 9/11, and I would think he knows why he orchestrated those attacks better than you do.

5/18/2007 3:44:09 PM

^^^if this site is even close to true http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-religion-map.htm

then there are well over 100 countries that are non-muslim...i guess we'll have to wait for attacks in all the non-muslim countries before we consider this a problem

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:45 PM. Reason : ^^^]

5/18/2007 3:45:05 PM

Quote :

"^ um no it's not."

Okay, I'll ask you again: when was the last time Switzerland had a terrorist attack? How about China? Mexico? Canada? Do I need to go on? You can't argue with the fact that my earlier statement about how some non-Muslim countries have never been attacked by islamic terrorists is not true.

Quote :

"then there are well over 100 countries that are non-muslim...i guess we'll have to wait for attacks in all the non-muslim countries before we consider this a problem "

Nice critical reading skills. Notice I said the U.S. has been attacked REPEATEDLY while other countries had no attacks. My point is, even if it's true that Al Quaida members just want to kill all non-Muslims, they clearly have more of a problem with the U.S. than with, say, Norway.

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:49 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2007 3:47:07 PM

^^^ Dude, I've given several versus of Muhammad telling his followers to kill Christians and Jews. I'm sorry you cannot read. And I'm also sorry you don't understand what's going on here and why so many Muslims hate us, Israel, the West (see the riots in Denmark).

I've given you plenty of examples and I've asked you to give me one where Jesus told me to kill someone.


There is a difference in philosophy here and you are the one putting a band aid on the religion that says you get 70 virgins if you kill yourself. I mean, yeah, that's a great religion right there.

^ Spain, Britain for starters.

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:48 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2007 3:47:35 PM

^^that statement is just dumb though...thats like saying "not everyone has been in a car accident"...which is true...but then you'd say "if car accidents are a threat, how come everyone hasnt been in one"

Quote :

"even if it's true that Al Quaida members just want to kill all non-Muslims, they clearly have more of a problem with the U.S. than with, say, Norway."

and?


[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:51 PM. Reason : v read my "and?"]

5/18/2007 3:48:08 PM

^ Read my edited post

5/18/2007 3:50:13 PM

Quote :

"The Bible also contains calls to violence but modern day Christians have learned to interpret around them as have the majority of modern day Muslims. Even if the Koran does say what you claim it says, that's still not the reason Osama bin Laden gave for 9/11, and I would think he knows why he orchestrated those attacks better than you do."

5/18/2007 3:51:18 PM

bin Ladin seems like someone you can trust

5/18/2007 3:52:08 PM

So al Quaida hates us. Why shouldn't Ron Paul's voice be allowed to be heard?

5/18/2007 3:52:35 PM

why shouldnt Saul Anuzis' criticism be allowed to be heard

5/18/2007 3:53:57 PM

wow, with OEP's strong "show me the verse or get out of tsb forever" talk... he sure has shied away from this one.

5/18/2007 3:55:32 PM

^^ who said it shouldn't? I'm not arguing with his criticism, just his attempt to silence, rather than engage, those he disagrees with. I didn't realized drugs and alcohol Ron Paul were was such a problem that they had to result to neo-McCarthyism.

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:59 PM. Reason : ^ yeah dude, you win ]

5/18/2007 3:55:48 PM

^ you mean kinda like muslims when they kill, rather than engage, a bunch of people in an attempt to silence a political cartoon?

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2007 3:56:34 PM

wow dude, way to snatch nothing out of thin air. I disagree completely with the Europeans who backed down from the cartoon controversy, I believe in free speech, but lets turn this argument on its head.

Who is more like al Quaida, Ron Paul who speaks his mind and is willing to question authority and the decisions by that authority, or Saul Anuzis who believes that all non-believers should be silenced?

5/18/2007 4:01:43 PM

I'm glad you've now done away with trying to debate the merits of islam.

5/18/2007 4:03:20 PM

Quote :

"Who is more like al Quaida, Ron Paul who speaks his mind and is willing to question authority and the decisions by that authority, or Saul Anuzis who believes that all non-believers should be silenced?"

5/18/2007 4:15:54 PM

^^^^

^^^

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 4:16 PM. Reason : ag]

5/18/2007 4:16:39 PM

Quote :

"'m glad you've now done away with trying to debate the merits of islam."

This has nothing to do with debating the merits of islam, it has to do with the merits of debate. There are crowds on both sides of the aisle who believe that those who disagree are such apostates that they do not deserve to be heard at all. I'm arguing against that.

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 4:22 PM. Reason : ^^ congratulations, you know your pictures]

5/18/2007 4:21:15 PM

here's an update

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/18/martin/index.html

Quote :

"Granted, Americans were severely damaged by the hijacking of U.S. planes, and it has resulted in a worldwide fight against terror. Was it proper for the United States to respond to the attack? Of course! But should we, as a matter of policy, and moral decency, learn to think and comprehend that our actions in one part of the world could very well come back to hurt us, or, as Paul would say, blow back in our face? Absolutely. His real problem wasn't his analysis, but how it came out of his mouth. What has been overlooked is that Paul based his position on the effects of the 1953 ouster by the CIA of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh. An excellent account of this story is revealed in Stephen Kinzer's alarming and revealing book, "Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq," where he writes that Iran was establishing a government close to a democracy. But Mossadegh wasn't happy that the profit from the country's primary resource -- oil -- was not staying in the country. Instead, the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (now known British Petroleum, or BP) was getting 93 percent of the profits. Mossadegh didn't like that, and wanted a 50-50 split. Kinzer writes that that didn't sit too well with the British government, but it didn't want to use force to protect its interests. But their biggest friend, the United States, didn't mind, and sought to undermine Mossadegh's tenure as president. After all kinds of measures that disrupted the nation, a coup was financed and led by President Dwight Eisenhower's CIA, and the Shah of Iran was installed as the leader. We trained his goon squads, thus angering generations of Iranians for meddling in that nation's affairs. As Paul noted, what happened in 1953 had a direct relationship to the takeover of the U.S. Embassy in 1979. We viewed that as terrorists who dared attack America. They saw it as ending years of oppression at the hands of the ruthless U.S.-backed Shah regime. As Americans, we believe in forgiving and forgetting, and are terrible at understanding how history affects us today. We are arrogant in not recognizing that when we benefit, someone else may suffer. That will lead to resentment and anger, and if suppressed, will boil over one day. Does that provide a moral justification for what the terrorists did on September 11? Of course not. But we should at least attempt to understand why."

5/18/2007 4:32:49 PM

Quote :

"wow, with OEP's strong "show me the verse or get out of tsb forever" talk... he sure has shied away from this one."

do you think i love you so much that i would sit glued on here until you ceased your trolling and answered?

Quote :

"It's written in the Koran that the ONLY way to get into heaven is to kill yourself for Allah in Jihad. Or else you could be sent to hell although you were a good, practicing Muslim. THE ONLY for sure entrance into heaven is to kill yourself."

Show us where it says that exact thing, Oeuvre, or STFU and leave TSB forever.

You can't just come in here and make up completely false statements thinking people will fall for them hook line and sinker.

[hint: you still haven't showed where it says that exact thing.]

where exactly does it say that the ONLY way to get to heaven is to kill oneself?

yes, there are lots of things in the Quran that i find objectionable as well, but you stated something, and now you have have to show it. showing other similar things doesn't cut it.

5/18/2007 4:37:55 PM

Quote :

"STFU and leave TSB forever."

Quote :

"Who is more like al Quaida, Ron Paul who speaks his mind and is willing to question authority and the decisions by that authority, or Saul Anuzis OEPII1 who believes that all non-believers should be silenced?"

5/18/2007 4:39:31 PM

TrollTwista420


[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 4:41 PM. Reason : ]

5/18/2007 4:40:58 PM

OPECJihad

i just figure jcash views you as al qaeda since you want people silenced

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2007 4:42:57 PM

lmao

5/18/2007 4:43:32 PM