attendance is up, playoff ratings are down...at least they were before Lebron went off....I say Lebron is the answer. I love basketball but basketball needs Lebron James to be great. Otherwise I wouldn't be suprised if the ratings continue to drop

6/4/2007 2:10:22 PM

Quote :

"LeBron doesnt rape white women."

not yet...give him time...whole league is a bunch of thugs

6/4/2007 2:10:33 PM

Obviously my last post was hyperbole, but I don't see how you can deny Lebron being a better team player. Not only on the court, but off as well. Hell, fucking Kobe just a few days ago started demanding to be traded saying how the players around him weren't good enough. I can't imagine Lebron saying that shit.

6/4/2007 2:39:23 PM

Quote :

"whole league is a bunch of thugs"

yeah pretty much..... except for Tim Duncan who was molded in the image of the Admiral himself...

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 2:41 PM. Reason : sp]

6/4/2007 2:40:56 PM

and Nash

6/4/2007 2:42:23 PM

Lebron is such a good team player that his team has never won an NBA title

6/4/2007 2:46:41 PM

Quote :

"I don't see how you can deny Lebron being a better team player."

You can't. So you decide to bring up an irrelevant point about kobe playing with the most dominant big man in the NBA arguably ever--who kobe proceeded to get run out of town.

Perhaps we could talk about where Kobe is right now, because it certainly isn't in the NBA finals.

6/4/2007 2:51:09 PM

kobe is probably at home polishing his NBA Championship rings...they DID award those to the whole Lakers TEAM and not just Shaq you know...yep...the Spurs have championship rings too...and will have another title in a couple weeks

But please, go on about how Lebron has established himself as the best player in NBA history based on one great Game 5 performance

6/4/2007 3:01:05 PM

Quote :

"kobe is probably at home"

yeah, thats about right

I never said anything about Lebron being the best player ever. I said he has a chance to bring the NBA to the masses (you know, like the OP said) like Kobe will never be able to because he is a selfish ball hog. People like Lebron because not only is he an outstanding player, but he does it the right way.

6/4/2007 3:06:26 PM

i like lebron too

course you act like kobe isnt the most popular player in the nba right now, which he is, for better or worse

6/4/2007 3:21:39 PM

THIS THREAD IS JUST MORE PROOF THAT TREETWISTA DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL AND IS A RAPE SUPPORTER

6/4/2007 3:34:35 PM

Quote :

"who kobe proceeded to get run out of town."

Have you had your head in the sand for the past week?

6/4/2007 3:36:01 PM

nobody wants to hear that the lakers didnt want to pay $90 million for 3 years of old shaq...obviously the first year was worth it (see Miami title last year) and obviously the 2nd and 3rd were not (see Miami get swept in 1st round this year)

they'd rather blame Kobe cause he rapes chicks just like Duke lacrosse players rape chicks

6/4/2007 3:44:35 PM

kobe doesnt rape black chicks

6/4/2007 3:47:51 PM

but he defininitely rapes chicks, just like duke lacrosse...they were found guilty of rape in a court of law

6/4/2007 3:51:37 PM

I'm fairly certain that the truth of why they didn't keep Shaq is somewhere in the middle. They planned on building around Kobe for the future instead of Shaq and knew the two weren't getting along. It's not as if Kobe was begging to keep the guy who helped him win 3 titles, though. In fact, all signs point to that he was pretty happy that he got to be "the guy" after Shaq left.

While we are talking about the events of this past week, though, if you were on his team, would you be able to look at his comments as anything other than a slap in the face. Basically Kobe went to every radio show and went on and on about how the management hasn't given him anyone to play with to build a championship team around. waaaaahhh..

You didn't hear Lebron whining this week about his team sucked and the management won't give him anyone to play with. Oh yeah, that's because he was winning the conference championship with those chumps.

6/4/2007 4:08:08 PM

Quote :

"Oh yeah, that's because he was winning the eastern conference championship with those chumps."

with that said, I do think the Cavs have a shot in the finals.

6/4/2007 4:25:12 PM

lebron has never experienced an nba title...i mean obviously this is gonna be his first finals coming up agains the spurs...kobe however has already won titles...he knows what its like...and when a formerly dominant center good for maybe 40 games a season wants 90 million dollars for 3 years, you've gotta look at it from a business perspective if you're the lakers

i recall before shaq went to miami...everybody was saying "who would you rather have, shaq or kobe?" and the consensus was pretty much "shaq if i want a title THIS YEAR, kobe if i'm building for the future"...and so far thats played out...shaq played well last year, as well as wade of course...but now it makes you wonder what Miami will do in a year or two...given that their backup center is just as old as shaq (alonzo) what are the heat going to do next year or the year after? they wont be able to afford to sign anybody big unless they get rid of shaq...and nobody will want to pick up shaq's contract unless they too feel they can win a title THIS YEAR...just makes you wonder what Miami couldve done this year with a starting lineup of Jason Williams, Dwayne Wade, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom and Alonzo/Haslem...certainly would be better for the future but at least Miami got their title

i've never been a kobe fan...i mean i've basically hated him since he refused to play for the hornets...but over the years he's definitely earned my respect...he's pretty much the best wing player in the NBA right now...maybe Nash is the best PG, Duncan the best big man...well Kobe is the best wing player...and he has many more years left in the league, unlike Shaq...dude is just filthy...and sure he's sitting at home...knocked out of the 1st round again by a very good Phoenix team

we'll see how everything plays out but i'm not just some kobe fan and lebron hater...i like lebron more but i think kobe is a better player...i guess mainly cause he's done it for more years than lebron...i think lebron will be terrific and retire with multiple NBA titles...but i dont think Cleveland stands a chance against probably the best pro sports team over the last 10 years (maybe the Pats are better but thats about it)

6/4/2007 4:26:37 PM

Lebron begged the Cavs front office to bring in Michael Redd (All-Star) because he wanted a proven player who could shoot 3's. All Kobe wants is what any franchise player wants - complimentary players.

By the way. Kobe plays defense - 1st team All NBA to be exact.

Last time I checked, Lebron doesnt play defense. He just saves all his energy for offense.

Everyone knows that if it comes to the 4th quarter they would rather have Kobe than Lebron.

Number one - Kobe hits free throws/Lebron doesnt

Number two - Kobe can hit threes/Lebron cant

Number three - Kobe will shut down the other teams best player/Lebron will guard the other teams worst player (trying to save up energy for offense)

Other than that yeah Lebrons great. But lets be real - Hes no Kobe.

6/4/2007 4:28:18 PM

I think you guys are missing my point. I am not trying to argue that Lebron is a better play than Kobe. We could go back and forth all day on that stuff. They each have things that they do better than the other. Kobe has more points, plays defense, and has championships. Lebron has more assists, more rebounds.

At the end of the day, though, the public perception is that Kobe is a selfish asshole and Lebron is the team player that everyone loves. Per the OP, I think it is a reasonable thing to say that Lebron stands a very good chance of bringing the casual fan back to the NBA.

6/4/2007 4:36:48 PM

Quote :

"At the end of the day, though, the public perception is that Kobe is a selfish asshole and Lebron is the team player that everyone loves"

i agree...i also think Lebron does have the star quality that may bring back a lot of the current casual/fencesitter fans

i just think the public perception issue was obviously skewed by the rape allegations, as well as people saying "kobe ran shaq out of town"...people just sided with shaq for whatever reason...maybe because he's a big guy and he likes to joke around...he seems more likeable, i dunno...i just think kobe kind of got the short end of the stick...also it didnt hurt people on shaq's side of the argument when miami won a title and the lakers lost a 7 game first round series to the suns last year

6/4/2007 4:47:53 PM

I like the revisionist history when it comes to Kobe. Of course he ran Shaq out of town. He let the management know under no uncertain circumstances that he didn't want to play with Shaq anymore and it was either him or Shaq that had to leave.

This interview is a pretty good synopsis of Kobe's true character:

Quote :

"GRAY: What was your reaction to Shaq saying the Lakers are his team, and everybody knows it? BRYANT: It doesn't matter whose team it is. Nobody cares. I don't, Karl [Malone] doesn't, Gary [Payton] doesn't, and our teammates and the fans don't either. There's more to life than whose team this is. But this is his team, so it's time for him to act like it. That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. Also, "my team" doesn't mean only when we win; it means carrying the burden of defeat just as gracefully as you carry a championship trophy. GRAY: Do you consider Shaq to be a leader? BRYANT: Leaders don't beg for a contract extension and negotiate some 30 million [dollars] plus per year deal in the media when we have two future Hall of Famers playing here pretty much for free. A leader would not demand the ball every time down the floor when you have the three of us [Malone, Payton, Bryant] playing beside you, not to mention the teammates you have gone to war with for years -- and, by the way, then threaten not to play defense and rebound if you don't get the ball every time down the floor."

Quote :

"GRAY: Kobe, Shaq said if you didn't like what he had to say you can opt out and leave next season. Will you leave the Lakers? BRYANT: I won't make that decision until the end of the season. I told Shaq last year that I was planning on opting out. He knew before anyone. I told him out of respect for what we have been through together. I thought he should be the first to know. The fact that he acts like this is such a big shock is a mystery to me. If leaving the Lakers at the end of the season is what I decide, a major reason for that will be Shaq's childlike selfishness and jealousy. "

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1648431

what a whiny bitch

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 5:16 PM. Reason : 2]

6/4/2007 5:15:22 PM

Quote :

"I like the revisionist history when it comes to Kobe"

I like the media rumors that come out about athletes every day where the general public just picks a side based on their feelings at the time, regardless of the reliability of a rumor

Quote :

"Leaders don't beg for a contract extension and negotiate some 30 million [dollars] plus per year deal in the media when we have two future Hall of Famers playing here pretty much for free. A leader would not demand the ball every time down the floor when you have the three of us [Malone, Payton, Bryant] playing beside you, not to mention the teammates you have gone to war with for years -- and, by the way, then threaten not to play defense and rebound if you don't get the ball every time down the floor.""

so apparently shaq is also a whiny bitch

HEY 2 SUPERSTARS? BOTH OF THEM HAVE ATTITUDE ISSUES? WHO WOULDVE THUNK! I THOUGHT ALL SUPERSTARS WERE HUMBLE!

6/4/2007 5:20:04 PM

^that was kobe saying all that, you know. the one whining. not shaq.

6/4/2007 5:33:49 PM

I'm not gonna defend Shaq too much. He was pretty immature when he was in LA. However, Kobe's behavior stands out in stark contrast to that of Lebron, or most superstars for that matter.

The guy is a prima-donna who bitches and whines until he gets what he wants. He ran Phil out of town and all but forced the Lakers to trade Shaq. He has thrown his teammates under the bus repeatedly. He's a sack of shit and a bad teammate.

6/4/2007 5:52:58 PM

Quote :

"He's a sack of shit and a bad teammate"

I SECOND THAT

6/4/2007 5:58:35 PM

Ok so this seems to be the consensus

Kobe is a bad teammate because he ran Shaq out (Shaqs numbers plummeted after he left)

and

Kobe is a rapist because he allegedly raped a white girl (never got convicted)

All I want to say is neither one of those statements have anything to do with Kobe being the best player in the NBA and while yes Lebron is probably bring the average fan back - real NBA fans, fans who appreciate things like defense and killer instinct will always root for Kobe.

6/4/2007 6:49:18 PM

ok cmon kobe obviously raped the chick

fotunately, that is completely irrelavant when talking about bball

6/4/2007 7:16:11 PM

Quote :

"and all but forced the Lakers to trade Shaq"

thats completly false

shaq wanting $90 million for 3 years when only the first is gonna be worth a damn "ran shaq off"

again lets see how miami does over the next few years as shaq and mourning retire/arent worth shit and they dont have the money to bring in another good player to help wade...they're 2nd best player is gonna be udonis haslem

6/4/2007 7:29:25 PM

kobe may not have done everything in his power to keep shaq in LA but he def didnt "force him out" or any of that nonsense

6/4/2007 7:30:36 PM

^^So you are saying that being a good teammate plays no part of being a great basketball player?

6/4/2007 7:30:38 PM

I'd say that. ala bonds.

he's no less great a player (roids not withstanding,he was good before he juiced) because he's a dick

6/4/2007 7:35:57 PM

its not like kobe and shaq ever truly got along...course its all good when you're winning

when magic came to the lakers, it was kareem's team...both realized that...then as the years went on, it became magic's team...kareem realized this and they kept winning

when LA traded vlade divac for the kid out of lower merion, it was shaq's team...when neither of them together could win a title it was shaq's team...when phil jackson got there it was shaq's team...when they won the first couple titles it was shaq's team...during the 3rd title run seemed to be when kobe really came into his own...it was time for old shaq to know his role...he seemed to think he was still worth $90 million for 3 years

6/4/2007 7:41:22 PM

::

Quote :

"Hey Tim, I agree, thank god the King has finally taken his throne... thanks for participating in the show, we have a prize pack waiting for you at the station. If you have any questions, feel free to contact the number below. Mike Mike Stangl Promotions Director/Producer WRBZ-AM & WDNC-AM Raleigh, NC 919.875.9100 ext. 121 (P) 919.875.9080 (F)"

And the email:

Quote :

" Chris, Finally, a reason to watch the NBA for the casual sports fan. I caught the 4th quarter last night while flipping channels. I haven’t seen a performance like that since Jordan in Game 6 against Utah in the 1998 Finals. Unbelievable. There’s just something about watching a player refusing to let his team lose. Lebron’s teammates were useless. They turned the ball over, got their shots blocks, and set less than useful picks. They did their job however by getting the heck outa Lebron’s way. Detroit, to be fair, gave it away. Tie game, less than 10 seconds to go, and Billups takes an off balance 3-pointer? I don’t care who you are, that’s an awful play, hands down. They also didn’t double Lebron IMMEDIATELY when he got across the halfcourt line. How many consecutive points does the guy have to score before you send the whole team after him? I’d have much more sympathy if they got beat by wide open teammates hitting clutch jumpers. Losing to a lay-up in the closing seconds on your own floor is downright shameful. It was grossly apparent Detroit was the better team. That’s not even a question. Lebron took them all over his knee and gave the Pistons a collective spanking. He took them to school. Here’s the speech in the huddle for the Cavs – If your name is Lebron, score. If not, find someone named Lebron and get him the ball. Thank god an NBA superstar with such tremendous character and humility has finally emerged. I might even watch a whole game now. Go Cavs."

6/5/2007 2:01:08 PM

With all due respect I don't see how you kids can sit here and say Kobe is a bad teamate. Asking for moves to be made is something that is done in the offseason. Of course Lebron isn't doing this because everybody puts thier teamates up while you're still playing and most of all his teamates have helped him be in the finals right now. Hate Kobe all you want, but the man is a competitor and wants to win more than anyone so of course he's going to want offseason improvements made on a subpar team. Kobe passes the ball and encourages his teamates during the season. He is such a team player that he took all the blame in game seven last year to try and let his teamates win the game while the suns focused 1.5 guys on Kobe. T.O. is completely different. Defenses can double him and he will still demand the ball all the time (which is fine in Kobe's case because his teamates have not been able to score against dishonest defense and I can't imagine how it feels being the only one on your team playing defense. Down the stretch of those blazer games and spur games on the way to championships Kobe showed us the leadership to lead the team to victory by clutch scoring, clutch defense and yes....clutch passes to setup people like shaq for easy allies and such.

6/6/2007 3:39:34 AM

this pissing contest in spilling from thread to thread

6/6/2007 8:01:39 AM

Thank you. Finally someone else sees how Kobe is NOT a bad teammate.

Lets also look at this angle. I am sure that anyone who has ever played basketball can all mutually agree that playing defense is the least enjoyable part of basketball. Everyone would much rather score points than play defense. This being said, Kobe always WILLINGLY accepts the job of guarding the other teams best player. In my book this consistutes being a good team player. He could choose to decline this role and let someone else play the defensive stopper.

Kobe is a good teammate because he guards the other teams best player - something plenty of superstars such as McGrady, Vince Carter, Steve Nash, Lebron James, etc choose not to do.

If Kobe were really as selfish as everyone accuses him of being, chances are he would say "No I am only going to score points because scoring gets all the attention." It sounds to me like everyone who hates Kobe doesnt realize the enormous responsibility that Kobe has.

If Kobe were a football player, this would be the equivalent to him playing quarterback and middle linebacker and kickoff/punt returns and coverage not to mention being the longsnapper. Interesting how in the game of football these players who have all these responsibilities are considered good teammates but when this same concept is applied to basketball, the average fan seems to only consider how many points/assists a person has to determine if they are a "good teammate."

Before we go annointing Lebron as the NBA's savior lets stop and evaluate how good of a teammate he is both offensively AND defensively.

6/6/2007 12:25:55 PM

why would a "good teamate" come out and basically say that he wants to be traded if his teamates aren't traded for better ones. that has "good teamate" written all over it. But enough with "is Kobe good or bad". The thing that is interesting to me is that now people are labeling Lebron as the NBA savior. A lot of what I like to call sideline NBA fans agree that he is what the league has been lacking and that our attention is starting to turn back to favoring the NBA. Does this upset the Kobe lovers? Does this upset the hardcore NBA fan? It shouldn't because he is bringing more fans back to the sport but I get this feeling after reading some of the respones in the thread that hard core NBA fans dislike the fact that Lebron is expanding to a new audience.....

[Edited on June 6, 2007 at 12:35 PM. Reason : ba]

6/6/2007 12:35:13 PM

Kobe doesnt want his teammates to be traded for better ones. We need to clear that up.

Remember when Ron Artest was a free agent. Kobe pleaded the Lakers to bring him in. He never said trade so and so for Artest.

Anyways yeah even though Kobe haters may not like it the NBA Finals and the playoffs in general always draw better ratings when the Lakers (specifically Kobe) are playing. LA is just a big market area. Yes all the off the court drama adds to the ratings but even before the drama back when the Lakers won 3 straight titles they were pulling in high ratings.

This is supposed to be a Lebron thread but somehow it always comes back to Kobe...interesting

6/6/2007 2:34:32 PM

wow kobe and artest on a team only 5's would ever score on them.

6/6/2007 10:13:33 PM

LEBRON SUCKS

ya thats right, I said it.

6/7/2007 11:39:12 PM