wlb420 All American 9053 Posts user info edit post |
what are the prospects for DeA and DeS.......what round? Starter or back ups? Which one first?
Tricky situation imo.......I'll probably try to stay away from both, just to be safe.
[Edited on June 25, 2007 at 2:53 PM. Reason : deuce] 6/25/2007 2:53:36 PM |
TreeTwista10 minisoldr 148450 Posts user info edit post |
DeA before DeS 6/25/2007 4:59:07 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
ok, here is my take on this...
Deangelo Williams will likely take the starting position over by some time around week 5. With all of the added pressure on Coach John Fox this year and the desire for the team to get younger (such as the signing of Carr, release of KJ at WR, etc), I see him playing his most dynamic players early and often.
In 12 man drafts, DeA has gone as high as the 5th round (pretty consistent) and DeS has gone no higher than the 6th (and that was rare).
The only way I would take DeA as a starter would be if I were to have one of the first three picks and drafted RB (LT), WR (Wayne), WR (Boldin), QB (Bulger), DeA (RB) or something along those lines. He could be a very good back this year and is worth taking a fly on, especially since Carolina will be using a zone blocking scheme that DeA flourished in while at Memphis.
He does however, make an excellent backup option and one that will likely slip under less informed Fantasy Footballer's cheat sheets.
I see him as a decent #2 RB and a great #3 or situational play.
- The Guru
[Edited on June 25, 2007 at 5:16 PM. Reason : ASdf] 6/25/2007 5:14:36 PM |
bkhardee All American 985 Posts user info edit post |
ok Guru.. my league gets 2 keepers. My options come down to Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Thomas Jones, Edge, and Reggie Wayne
.. Brown is my first choice, then its up in the air for the 2nd. With Benson I worry about Grossman sucking balls and his bad attitude, with Jones I just dont know if the Jets will be good enough and they have O-line issues. I think Edge will improve with an improved O-line, coach, and QB but not sure if I should use it on him. I will get the production out of Wayne but their are always WR's available and their probably won't be many RB's
.. Welcome to my dilemma 6/27/2007 3:15:17 PM |
wlb420 All American 9053 Posts user info edit post |
I'd keep Benson and Jones
Bears D will keep them in most games, and they'll be a run dominated team
The Jets are a pretty well balanced O, and their dink and dunk style will be good for the running game. 6/27/2007 3:37:05 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
bk, In my honest opinion, I think you should keep Ronnie Brown and Cedric Benson, but man, Reggie Wayne is very close third.
First of all, we have not even come close to seeing the best of Ronnie Brown. The addition of Cam Cameron to the coaching staff is going to do wonders for Brown's productivity. Unfortunately, we really wont see the fruit of this relationship until 2008, but he will be a solid keeper this year and could crack the top 10 fantasy RB's this year.
In Benson, you are getting a mix of speed and toughness that plays on a team that, as ^ said, is dedicated to the run. Benson is injury prone, and has never carried the entire load for an entire season. Hell, never even for a half of a season, so that pick is not without risk. The good thing is that Chicago's defense will remain in tact for at least the next few years, so Benson should get numerous scoring opprounities to punch the ball into the end zone. The QB issue doesnt worry me so much, becasue I am one of the few that think Grossman will actually play better this year than last, as he is in a contract year with ALOT to prove.
Ok, the wildcard of all of this is Reggie Wayne. I am not sure what your league settings are, but in most leagues in 2006, Wayne was in the top 3 in fantasy WR's. I also really like him this year, as it is becoming more and more evident that Harrison is in the later stages of his career. Wayne was really the #1 WR on that team last year, and as I had mentioned before, if it werent for that one game v. NE last year where Marvin had 3 TD's, Wayne would have crushed him statistically. Both Manning and Wayne are under contract for the next few years, and while I dont see them being as statistically prolific as Manning & Harrision, Wayne easily has the potential and the Quarterback to be one of the best, if not the best WR in the league this year and next.
Again, RB's always hold more weight in Fantasy Football than RB's do, but none of those options at RB are going to be in the top 5 statistically. You really need to think about the direction of your team, because having a WR like Wayne as a keeper could basically give you the edge week in and out against your opponent.
- The Guru 6/27/2007 9:06:10 PM |
TreeTwista10 minisoldr 148450 Posts user info edit post |
i've seen brown going top 10 (9th or 10th mostly) in mock drafts 6/27/2007 9:21:57 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
really?
I have yet to see him go in the 1st round of a 10 man, I have seen him go 11th or 12th in a 12 man though.
Most 1st rds go like this...
LT, S-Jax, LJ, then some combination of Addai, Gore, Alexander, Rudi, Westbrook, Henry & Parker.
I cant see Brown being taken ahead of any of those guys, but, all drafts are different. 6/27/2007 10:00:01 PM |
TreeTwista10 minisoldr 148450 Posts user info edit post |
i could see him going ahead of addai just cause the colts pass so much 6/27/2007 10:03:45 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
anyone up for a mock draft?
http://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/mockdrafts 7/3/2007 10:25:32 AM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
bttt. Anyone know of the best live draft package to get?
Some are on ebay, but I wanted to know if anyone had any personal experience. 7/12/2007 11:15:32 AM |
jmpack15 All American 4470 Posts user info edit post |
i jumped in some random 8-team league that was drafting today for the hell of it.
QB - Peyton QB - Rivers RB - Maroney RB - E. James RB - D. Foster RB - M. Lynch RB - T. Bell WR - Torry WR - Anquan WR - Calvin WR - G. Jennings WR - T. Glenn TE - Gates K - J. Wilkins DEF - Baltimore DEF - Carolina 7/12/2007 12:52:08 PM |
Shivan Bird Football time 11094 Posts user info edit post |
^^I just use Excel. 7/12/2007 1:35:13 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
This picture makes me LOL.
He looks like one of those "Big Head" wall posters.
7/16/2007 5:14:42 PM |
TreeTwista10 minisoldr 148450 Posts user info edit post |
^i pretty much see that picture every day, and probably multiple times every day
[Edited on July 16, 2007 at 5:19 PM. Reason : "Fat Heads"] 7/16/2007 5:19:18 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
Oh yeah, fat heads.
Same here on the view count.
I swear, I have seen that picture at least 20 times today already, lol.
It will be up to fifty by the time the night is over. Its a good thing Stattracker doesnt have that thing on it, otherwise my head might explode from an Ocho overdose.
7/16/2007 5:22:24 PM |
TreeTwista10 minisoldr 148450 Posts user info edit post |
good thing i dont have any golf or nascar to mess with today and its a slightly limited mlb schedule and i have exactly the right number of players today...course thats not gonna stop me from opening stat tracker later
ps: i had stattracker up during the all star game...had the game on another channel...flipped back and saw that the AL had scored a couple runs...looked at the Stattracker to see that Johan Santana had hit a 2 run homer (but he really didnt it was the guy who pinch hit for him...i think V-Mart (C-Cle)
[Edited on July 16, 2007 at 5:28 PM. Reason : .] 7/16/2007 5:27:35 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
pm me if you want my draft lists.
I compile them every year using different modifiers (which I will not give out) but I'll give my position lists if people want them
i use excel for the formulas 7/16/2007 11:14:13 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
O sweet I can paste excel into here
Rank PLAYER
1 P. Manning 2 T. Brady 3 C. Palmer 4 D. Brees 5 D. McNabb 6 M. Bulger 7 P. Rivers 8 M. Vick 9 J. Kitna 10 V. Young 11 M. Hasselbeck 12 T. Romo 13 M. Leinart 14 J. Cutler 15 J. Losman 16 M. Schaub 17 S. McNair 18 J. Russell
Rank PLAYER
1 L. Tomlinson 2 S. Jackson 3 L. Johnson 4 J. Addai 5 F. Gore 6 S. Alexander 7 W. Parker 8 L. Maroney 9 T. Henry 10 R. Bush 11 R. Johnson 12 B. Westbrook 13 C. Portis 14 M. Lynch 15 M. Jones-Drew 16 E. James 17 R. Brown 18 C. Benson 19 W. McGahee 20 J. Lewis 21 T. Jones 22 C. Williams 23 B. Jackson 24 B. Jacobs 25 A. Green 26 D. McAllister 27 D. Williams 28 C. Henry 29 A. Peterson 30 T. Bell
Rank PLAYER
1 C. Johnson 2 T. Holt 3 T. Owens 4 S. Smith 5 L. Fitzgerald 6 M. Harrison 7 R. Wayne 8 R. Williams 9 R. Moss 10 Ca. Johnson 11 A. Boldin 12 J. Walker 13 T. Houshmandzadeh 14 L. Evans 15 M. Colston 16 A. Johnson 17 D. Driver 18 H. Ward 19 G. Jennings 20 V. Jackson 21 B. Edwards 22 R. Brown 23 D. Stallworth 24 P. Burress 25 B. Berrian 26 D. Jackson 27 S. Moss 28 L. Coles 29 D. Henderson 30 J. Galloway 31 J. Cotchery 32 D. Branch 33 C. Chambers 34 S. Holmes 35 J. Horn 36 J. Porter 37 T. Glenn
Rank PLAYER
1 A. Gates 2 T. Gonzalez 3 A. Crumpler 4 T. Heap 5 V. Davis 6 K. Winslow 7 J. Witten 8 B. Watson 9 L. Smith 10 J. Shockey 11 H. Miller 12 D. Clark 13 C. Cooley 14 R. McMichael 15 B. Troupe
Rank PLAYER
1 Chicago 2 Baltimore 3 San Diego 4 Oakland 5 New England 6 Carolina 7 Pittsburgh 8 Miami 9 Jacksonville 10 Dallas 11 Philadelphia 12 Denver 13 San Francisco 14 Seattle 15 Arizona 7/16/2007 11:17:23 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
bttt. 7/18/2007 7:48:54 AM |
scottf All American 615 Posts user info edit post |
ok guys, need some advice... in my recent draft i didn't get the receivers that i needed. so i started loading up on qbs...i have bulger, rivers, eli manning, and alex smith. did this in hopes of making a trade for a receiver or two at a later date. well that date seems to have come thanks to the pending charges against vick. he is the only qb on this guy's fantasy team. would like to offer either eli or smith for plaxico burress or cotchery ( i know he wouldn't consider trading chad johnson who is his #1 receiver). my rec. corp. includes t.j. who's your mama, calvin johnson, donte stallworth, and amani toomer who is a backup.
what direction should i go in and if need be how far would you go to get one of these guys...i.e. tossing in johnson, stallworth, or toomer to get the deal done. also put yourself in this guys shoes and tell me what it would take for you to make the trade. i realize that vick isn't def. out yet but if he was the only qb on my roster i would want some insurance. 7/18/2007 3:33:38 PM |
Phil LOLlins All American 1402 Posts user info edit post |
you'd be an idiot to trade calvin johnson ALONE for one of the WR's you named
he'll be much better than burress or cotchery
do yourself a favor, look at the list 3 posts above and see if any of the WR's listed are available on waivers and add them
eli manning is a horrible QB and smith will be avg at best this year, so if you can get anything for just them you should be happy
your WR corps isnt that bad unless you have to start 3 7/18/2007 5:40:13 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
scott....the first thing to do, is not pay any attention to what ^ says. He is a thorn in my side every fantasy foolball season. This year looks to be no different. You are correct, that other guy will absolutely want a another QB...I know I would in that situation. The first step in making a trade is knowing what you are bringing to the table. Bulger is a top 6 QB, no doubt about it. After the first 6, the drop off is pretty significant, so trading Bulger is obviously out of the question.
It may seem like Rivers is leaps and bounds ahead of Eli, but when you look at the way the season is shaping up, Manning is setting up to have his best season yet. The new OC in NY is really going to air it out alot this season, and with Tiki gone, he and Plax should be busy early and often.
What does that mean to you? Offer Rivers in a trade for Plax...straight up. The longer all of this Vick drama goes on, the more he is going to realize that there is a good chance Vick could be out a chunk of the season. If you want to get the deal done quick, offer Rivers and Smith. Again, you make him think that you are coming off with your number one backup (and a starter for alot of teams, even in a 10 man), and you keep a sleeper in Manning and possibly gain is go to guy. try that and let me know what happens. This wont solve your WR issues, but Plax is going to be much better than many people realize and is a huge step in the right direction.
I look forward to hearing what happens.
- The Guru 7/18/2007 10:56:17 PM |
TreeTwista10 minisoldr 148450 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "Manning is setting up to have his best season yet" |
i agree about trading Philly Cheese for Plax straight up, but I think that even though Eli is going to throw more with Tiki gone, I think defenses are gonna be all over him...Plax is a solid receiver, at least early in the season, but I disagree about Eli having a great year7/19/2007 1:38:47 AM |
DROD900 All American 24658 Posts user info edit post |
^^^I'd offer up Philip and Stallworth for Chad Johnson
I have a question now:
I just landed the second pick in a draft, who should I take, Steven Jackson or LJ? I know everyone is pointing at Jackson and LJ is on the verge of a possible holdout, but I've had LJ the last two years and he has been a beast for me and I really dont think the Chiefs are dumb enough to let him holdout. 7/19/2007 9:44:09 AM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
First question is, what is your scoring system? 1 point per 10 yds or 20? PPR? (Points Per Reception)
If it's a PPR league, or 1 point per 10 yds, S-Jax, no doubt.
Ok, we all know that the past few years, LJ has been a monster, but this year is setting up to be a different story im ny opinion. The latest mocks on numerous sites (I mock draft at least 5 times a day, pathetic...I know) have LJ falling as low as 4 or even 5 (on rare occasions).
Here's why:
1) Almost 800 carries in the last two years, and NFL record last year with 416 carries. He is a beast, but it took him a ton of bumps and bruises to get there. Herm Edwards has vowed not to use him that much this year. That will defintely cause a drop in the overall numbers
2) The 2007 season will mark the second year in a row that KC has lost a hall of famer off of its offensive line. 12 time pro-bowler Will Shields hung up the cleats this offseason, almost one year after Willie Roaf decided to do the same. The O-line makes the defense in the running game, and if you think losing those two studs wont play a part in this year's running game, you are dead wrong.
3) The inexperienced QB and lack of a WR presence. These could be two separate issues, but you can absolutely expect to see 8 men in the box almost every snap that LJ is in the game. There may not be a more one dimensional team in the NFL this season. With either Damon Huard or Brodie Coyle at QB and the oldest of old #1 WR's in Kennison leading the way, I expect to see alot of blocking from Gonzo this year and even more three and outs on offense.
4) The possible holdout. You are right in assuming that this will probably be a non-issue by the time the regular season rolls around, but if he misses and part of training camp, you are looking at someone who will take longer in the regular season to get used to the plays, get in game shape, and ultimately take longer to be a fantasy factor than he normally would.
For all of these reasons, I think its a no brainer to take S-Jax with the 2nd overall pick. Some of his nay-sayers think that becasue of the improved offense, there will be less touches for him. I call BS on that one. An improved offense is nothin but good for a RB. Defenses cant focus solely on him, and the pass will absolutely open up the run, equalling more goal-line and long play opprotunities. Not to mention that if that improved offense can ever get a big lead on a team, S-Jax will certainly close the game out for you. In my opinion, the choice is simple.
Go with Stephen Jackson with the #2 pick! 7/19/2007 10:48:06 AM |
LudaChris All American 7946 Posts user info edit post |
Ok, so my league has 10 players, and we each have 2 keepers.
My 2 keepers are LT and Steven Jackson(yes I played my cards right over the past 2 seasons).
Now comes the question of my first pick. Our draft order was set to random and I got the 4th pick. So now I'm torn. Our league starts 2 QB's, 2 RB's and 3 WR's, so I'm leaning towards WR, but there will be some solid RB's on the board.
I'm basically down to 4 players for my first pick, 2 RB's and 2 WR's and I'm torn on how to order these guys on my rankings list.
1.) Willis McGahee - has shown flashes of being a good RB and now he's on a good team with a great defense that is prepared to grind out the game if they can, so he should get plenty of touches.
2.) Maurice Jones-Drew - he was my waiver-wire wonder last year, with him in my stable I had 3 top 10 RB's, but he is splitting carries, but also gets plenty of touches all over the field. I'd love to steal him in the 2nd round but a few people have mentioned being interested in him in the late first round/early 2nd round, so I don't think he'd slide that far.
3.) Steve Smith - what more is there to say other than his name? Big threat WR who can make special things happen. The big questions this year though are the new offense and will he have a decent #2 to draw attention from him?
4.) Marvin Harrison - he was my one good WR last year. He and Peyton are a prime time fantasy duo and despite Reggie Wayne pushing for more touches, Harrison is consistent and always going to get his.
So, feel free to give some advice here, I know at least one of these players will be there when I pick, so order is going to be important(seeing as this is an automatic draft). 7/19/2007 8:47:44 PM |
PackMan03 All American 4594 Posts user info edit post |
I'd take Harrison....you already have two top 3 RBs. You can't draft a first round player to your bench. Definitely one of the WRs, Harrison if it was up to me but you cant go wrong with Smith either. 7/19/2007 9:24:55 PM |
Lowjack All American 10491 Posts user info edit post |
You don't need any other players. You have LT and Steven Jackson
[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 9:26 PM. Reason : and Baltimore Ravens Defense] 7/19/2007 9:25:55 PM |
LudaChris All American 7946 Posts user info edit post |
^We have a full-out team, with all defensive players as well, so even with those 2, the Bears D/ST(I get points for Hester's returns too) I only finished in 3rd. Didn't help McNabb bit the dust so early in the season. 7/20/2007 4:45:22 PM |
LudaChris All American 7946 Posts user info edit post |
No insight Guru? 7/20/2007 8:08:43 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
^sorry it's taken me so long, but seeing as this is a keeper league and the fact that you are set at RB with LT and S-Jax (and by set, I mean as good as it could possibly be) I would rank them as the following:
1) Smith 2) Harrison 3) McGahee 4) MJD - Im seein' a major bust this year with a healthy Taylor and Gerg Jones.
Now, Fantasy Football news of relevance within the past week or so....
Some of this is [OLD], but it's my duty to post
- Chester Taylor of the Vikings was carted off the practice field two days ago with an apparent arm injury. It doesnt look serious, but he will miss 3 days of practice because of it.
- Clinton Portis of the Redskins is out at least one week with "Swelling" in his knee. If you draft Portis, you absolutely must handcuff him with Betts, as issues such as swelling in the knee tend to linger.
- Not only has Priest Holmes of the Chiefs decided to make a comeback, but Michael Bennett and rookie Kolby Smith are also practicing with the first team offense. With Larry Johnson holding out, every other Chiefs running back becomes a bit more interesting in fantasy leagues. Meanwhile, LJ's stock continues to drop. He is reaching the point where it would even be difficult to justify him at the third pick.
Has anyone drafted or about to draft yet? If you have any questions, let 'em rip!
- The Guru 8/1/2007 4:41:12 PM |
TreeTwista10 minisoldr 148450 Posts user info edit post |
should i be wary of Frank Gore's hand injury he got in camp the other day? he already had fumblitis last year 8/1/2007 4:42:57 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
Well, I say no.
The injury isnt supposed to be serious and he could return to play in one of the last few preseason games, though it appears to be unlikely. If anything, him sitting out the preseason games will only make him more fresh and ready to go once the season starts, similar to how LT doesnt play a snap in the preseason. 8/1/2007 5:06:21 PM |
TreeTwista10 minisoldr 148450 Posts user info edit post |
word...yeah i had him in one of my leagues last year so i know how well he did...but his main problem last year was fumbles and an injured hand certainly got my attention since he's a top 10 pick 8/1/2007 5:07:15 PM |
LudaChris All American 7946 Posts user info edit post |
How about some opinions on Donovan McNabb?
I've had him 2 years in a row and 2 years in a row he's gotten hurt. Last year he was the #1 fantasy PLAYER(not just QB) before he went out, but he goes out with a torn ACL. Now he's back and practicing. Where should he be ranked?
I originally ranked my top 3 like this(see my previous post to understand my top 3 here): Smith Harrison McGahee
But now with McNabb in the mix and maybe flying under the radar, do I risk taking him with my first pick? Luckily my draft is towards the end of August, so for now I'm going to sit on him and perhaps move him to my first spot if he has a good pre-season because I think I can find some solid WR's(J. Walker, L. Evans, etc.) in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Opinions on taking McNabb in the first-round?
[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 7:55 PM. Reason : .] 8/1/2007 7:54:53 PM |
Lowjack All American 10491 Posts user info edit post |
who are the 2nd or 3rd year receivers who are going to blow up? 8/1/2007 8:25:09 PM |
marko Tom Joad 72828 Posts user info edit post |
DREW CARTER 8/1/2007 9:30:31 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
Im in on the open 14 man one here
http://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/mockdrafts
join people 8/1/2007 9:37:26 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
that site sucked
it lagged the whole time and most of the picks end up auto picking 8/1/2007 10:02:00 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
LOL, I just got done doing a draft on there as well.
Lets do a 10 man....let me know if you are interested
[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 10:08 PM. Reason : asdf] 8/1/2007 10:08:23 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
me and guru are arguing who's team is better
I drafted:
QB Kitna QB Pennington
RB S. Jackson RB Jones-Drew RB C. Henry RB A. Green RB V Morency
WR T Holt WR Cal. Johnson WR G. Jennings WR B. Marshall WR S. Holmes
TE A Gates
K N Kaeding
DEF N. England 8/1/2007 11:27:42 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
He drafted:
QB D. Brees QB Eli Manning
RB W McGahee RB B Westbrook RB A Peterson RB C Brown RB M Turner
WR M Harrison WR L Evans WR C Chambers WR T Glenn WR D Bennett
TE B Watson
K R Gould
DEF Bears 8/1/2007 11:29:55 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
YOU MAKE THE CALL 8/1/2007 11:30:16 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
Boobs had the 3rd pick and I had the 7th.
look closelt at his team. having combo's like S-Jax and Holt are no bueno.
both teams are good.....but I think I take it by a slim margin!
[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 11:35 PM. Reason : asdf] 8/1/2007 11:32:53 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
you are saying you dont take t holt in the 3rd round if he is available if you have jackson?
its the rams
remember when faulk and holt played together? remember last year? it worked then and it works now
id if you are talking by week problems, you have starting RB/WR combos with the same by week too!
[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 11:38 PM. Reason : .] 8/1/2007 11:36:36 PM |
Panthro All American 7333 Posts user info edit post |
all Im saying is that you have a RB/WR combo in Jackson and Holt and a QB/WR combo in Kitna and Johnson. They are all your starters too.
It puts alot of pressure on them to have good games, becasue if they dont, two key positions are getting crappy outputs.
^first of all, its bye weeks. Seocondly, I fixed any and every bye week issue I had by drafting a solid bench.
You on the other hand.....
[Edited on August 1, 2007 at 11:40 PM. Reason : asdf] 8/1/2007 11:38:39 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
i wouldnt say that
I mean kitna could throw to other options and id be ok
if opposing teams stop jackson running the rams are gonna throw the ball and jackson is a great receiver 8/1/2007 11:41:36 PM |
BoobsR_gr8 All American 30000 Posts user info edit post |
^^ wow have we become the typing nazi
ive typed the word bye like 20 times in the last hour while we were talking shit to each other at the draft 8/1/2007 11:42:33 PM |
Lowjack All American 10491 Posts user info edit post |
I think panthro had the better draft 8/1/2007 11:42:41 PM |