retraction from my earlier post about corporate yanking support of the deejays' morning show.

the problem is not so much with the morning deejays. financially pressuring their media group into shutting them down is not the answer. they'll just be replaced by carbon copies.

the problem is, that there is a culture of "cool to be stupid" that is perpetuated in our society. where the smart kids and the achievers are ostracized and bullied either into submission, or if they're strong enough to resist, they're relegated to the fringes of the social networks.

and this culture is deeply ingrained, almost foundational, in the American public school system. its this culture that supports the deejays who make fun of spelling bee winners so the average blue-collar, Bud Light drinking lowbrows can go "har har har, yeeeah didja see that stupid kid. what a loser. har har har" while they're on lunch break at their factory or construction jobs.

this is why i'll be sending my kid to private schools.

6/12/2007 7:51:46 PM

Quote :

"the problem is, that there is a culture of "cool to be stupid" that is perpetuated in our society. where the smart kids and the achievers are ostracized and bullied either into submission, or if they're strong enough to resist, they're relegated to the fringes of the social networks."

two new threads which show that to be true:


?topic=481751

a quote from the external link in that thread:

Quote :

""Middle schoolers cheer after detective says U.S. has the most drug users""

?topic=481671

a quote from the external link in that thread:

Quote :

"On a typical day, DeAngelo (a pseudonym, as are the other children’s names in this and the next paragraph) would throw a wad of paper in the middle of a lesson. Whether I disciplined him or ignored him, his actions would cause Kanisha to scream like an air-raid siren. In response, Lamond would get up, walk across the room, and try to slap Kanisha. Within one minute, the whole class was lost in a sea of noise and fists. I felt profoundly sorry for the majority of my students, whose education was being hijacked. Their plaintive cries punctuated the din: “Quiet everyone! Mr. Kaplowitz is trying to teach!” To gain control, I tried imposing the kinds of consequences that the classroom-management handbooks recommend. None worked. My classroom was too small to give my students “time out.” I tried to take away their recess, but depriving them of their one sanctioned time to blow off steam just increased their penchant to use my classroom as a playground. When I called parents, they were often mistrustful and tended to question or even disbelieve outright what I told them about their children. It was sometimes worse when they believed me, though; the tenth time I heard a mother swear that her child was going to “get a beating for this one,” I almost decided not to call parents. By contrast, I saw immediate behavioral and academic improvement in students whose parents had come to trust me."

i will answer your pms soon

6/12/2007 8:10:37 PM

I'm proof that most homeschooled folks are fucked up and weird.

My primary form of social interaction is playing D&D. And I'm damn proud of that.

6/12/2007 10:32:14 PM

yeah... I just dont think homeschooling is really a good choice for most people. but most public schools suck too.

6/12/2007 10:37:23 PM

It's a fine choice. So much less work than public school. (At least it was for me.)

6/12/2007 10:38:45 PM

Quote :

"the problem is, that there is a culture of "cool to be stupid" that is perpetuated in our society. where the smart kids and the achievers are ostracized and bullied either into submission, or if they're strong enough to resist, they're relegated to the fringes of the social networks. and this culture is deeply ingrained, almost foundational, in the American public school system. its this culture that supports the deejays who make fun of spelling bee winners so the average blue-collar, Bud Light drinking lowbrows can go "har har har, yeeeah didja see that stupid kid. what a loser. har har har" while they're on lunch break at their factory or construction jobs. "

that's a steaming load of bullshit. The highly intelligent socially retarded people are really few and far in between and the vast majority of intelligent, motivated kids are also part of, if not the majority of the "in crowd." Being smart and socially well-adjusted are not mutually exclusive.

6/12/2007 10:51:19 PM

^ Agreed.

I don't ever remember being bullied for being one of the smart ones.

6/12/2007 10:52:46 PM

^hehe?

6/12/2007 11:15:48 PM

Quote :

"that's a steaming load of bullshit"

not really. perhaps i should clarify. the winner of the national spelling bee is not "just a smart kid". he's exceptional. he's could be the next billionaire entrepreneur or Nobel Prize winner. although if some of you people could have your time with him, he could also become the next Cho Seung-Hui.

lets try this:

Quote :

"The highly intelligent socially retarded marginalized people are really few and far in between quite commonplace -- although -- the vast majority of average, and moderately-intelligent, motivated kids who play the petty social pecking-order games are also part of, if not the majority of the "in crowd." Being moderately-smart and socially well-adjusted are not mutually exclusive. however, exceptional children are quite typically socially ostracized "

[Edited on June 13, 2007 at 12:12 AM. Reason : ]

6/13/2007 12:08:00 AM

Quote :

"I would hope that by the age of 13, most people would have some manners and be polite, especially when on TV. This kid is just a pompous asshole. ...he's also never going to get laid."

Look around. Rudeness and poor manners are hardly the sole reign of 13 year olds. George Patton was about as pompous as you can get, but we're still pretty lucky he was on our side in WWII.

And as far as getting laid...If Stephen Hawking, a nerdy parapelegic science geek, can get a woman...this kid can too.

And for those intent on criticising home-schooling...it's a choice. And more choices the better in education. Home-schooling was probably a good choice for Evan since the odds are pretty good that he would've been eaten alive in a public school environment.

6/13/2007 9:42:22 AM

Quote :

"They were ridiculing the fact that Evan had been home-schooled and not turned over to the gov't system.. How he is probably a social outcast and can never play effectively in team sports because his parents promoted his individuality."

yes, i'm sure some morning show dofusses had a political agenda.....

more likely they were stereotyping him as the 'homeschool kid' that's socially inept and physically awkward...

6/13/2007 9:46:50 AM

Quote :

"They were ridiculing the fact that Evan had been home-schooled and not turned over to the gov't system.. How he is probably a social outcast and can never play effectively in team sports because his parents promoted his individuality."

Because everyone knows, the spelling-bee champs get all the bitches in a public middle school. Lol, if the kid is a dork, he's going to be one no matter where he goes to school.

And I think the home-schoolers being unable to interact with society thing is a bit played out isn't it? I mean, anyone who has reached their social peak at 13 doesn't have much to look forward to.

Hmm, and I wonder of the people in their late teens/20s who felt compelled to come on the internet and create a thread to make fun of a 13 year old who they've never even met, how many of them went to public school?

[Edited on June 13, 2007 at 10:23 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2007 10:18:57 AM

i went to public school

Quote :

" And as far as getting laid...If Stephen Hawking, a nerdy parapelegic science geek, can get a woman...this kid can too. "

she must be a very sex deprived woman

6/13/2007 11:05:27 AM

i havent read every word in this thread, but odds are we;ve covered all the angles.

the threadmakers agenda is to bash the public school system in yet another way. we get it, we disagree, lets move on.

6/13/2007 11:43:40 AM

Quote :

"The highly intelligent socially retarded people are really few and far in between and the vast majority of intelligent, motivated kids are also part of, if not the majority of the "in crowd." Being smart and socially well-adjusted are not mutually exclusive."

While this statement was true in the academically gifted and college prep classes that I took, I do not think it applies to all classes. Maybe things are different in other schools, but the middle and lower classes in my school were full of the DeAngelos and Kanishas that OEP posted about.

The thing that really concerns me is that as a result of No Child Left Behind our schools are no longer allowed to create "gifted" classes. They have to stick the kids who are excelling in with the kids who will fuck it up for everyone. I see this as a radical change from the schooling that you and I received and I think it will have a dramatic effect on the quality of education that our children's generation will receive from the public school system.

[Edited on June 13, 2007 at 1:44 PM. Reason : s]

6/13/2007 1:19:02 PM

Quote :

"were full of the DeAngelos and Kanishas "

haha what r u trying to say here .


Speaking of "No Child Left Behind" after much thinking this program is actually an indirect way of diverting school money to the schools of the middle to upper class communities. Their parents pay more taxes and on average their children actually give a shit more about an education. If you think about it the "No Child Left Behind" program holds schools responsible for getting certain marks on testing and such. Schools that perform "better" receive more funding. In actuality, schools made of more lower class/minority students are going to do more poorly no matter if the best teachers in the country are there. Thus their school will get penalized since they performed "below" par

Kinda like how "white" schools received more funding then minority schools in the mid 20th century. This was changed during the Civil Rights Movements and integration of public schools. Now, the policy is whichever schools perform better on "End Of Year" testing and other measuring procedures receive more funds. Of course "coincidently" the schools that do better are the majority white schools in more well to do neighborhoods.

How Teaching to the Test bastardizes public school education anyway is a completly different subject I will not get into.

[Edited on June 13, 2007 at 1:31 PM. Reason : l]

6/13/2007 1:30:03 PM

Quote :

"haha what r u trying to say here ."

I was not making a racist statement if that is what you are implying. I was referring directly to the names used in OEP's post (see above.)

I do think that children who excel for whatever reason (smarter, parents that push them, etc.) should be encouraged to be their best. There is also a synergy that is acheived when the best and brightest are put in a classroom together. Furthermore, a little competition can be good for them.

Teachers and administrators are now in a position where they have to focus most of their time on the lowest denominator. They encourage struggling children to be held back regardless of whether it is really needed because they know that they will inevitably do better the second time around and raise the school's average test scores.

The parents of the brighter kids will see what is going on and send them to private schools if possible, thus hurting the public schools even more.

It's just bad all the way around.

6/13/2007 1:53:56 PM

NCLB and similar programs don't teach to the lowest common denominator, they focus on the mediocre. In truth both the brightest and least bright are hurt, as it encourages ignoring both the very high performing kids (they are going to pass the test no matter what) and low performing kids (they are going to fail no matter what).

I believe positive reforms and investment in public schools are a good thing, but too often the true goals of those championing these reforms is funneling money to private schools or some other program. Real accountability must be a part of any reform package, but ill-conceived programs that take money away from our poorest schools without helping them improve are not the answer. We also need to challenge and inspire our best and brightest, and not let excellence be a casualty of programs geared towards basic competence.

6/13/2007 2:56:18 PM

but at least i can take a standardized test!!

6/13/2007 4:46:33 PM

against all odds I find myself agreeing with joe_schmoe again.

as far as the age old public school discussion the answer is simple. Attach the money to the child not the school. Then the kids poor and rich alike can take their given share of the education money and spend it where it is best. They are much more likely to have their best interests at heart than some administrator or good ol' boy kick back school board o' corruption.

6/13/2007 6:08:01 PM

wait a sec. I'm not for "school vouchers" removing tax money from the school district and funneling it into any private school you want to send it.

if you (like me) want to send your kid to private school and bypass the public schools, thats your perogative. but its on you to pay for it.



[Edited on June 13, 2007 at 8:37 PM. Reason : ]

6/13/2007 8:31:40 PM

Quote :

"the threadmakers agenda is to bash the public school system in yet another way. "

You're wrong.

The Thread-maker's intention was to point out that there is a war on the individual by mostly liberal collectivists. The talk show guys weren't zeroing in on the fact that he was socially clumsy..but that Evan could never be a good little team player because homeschooling promotes too much individuality.

But I have a feeling we'd disagree on that point too.

6/13/2007 9:42:15 PM

^^ Well I meant I agreed with you about the spelling bee champ. I know we have radical disagreements about public schools.

It is interesting that you acknowledge that public schools are not good enough for your children yet you are content to deny the poor the option that you will choose.

Lets face it the poor have no other option but to attend the public school the government chooses for them, but with vouchers they could escape more easily. Of course there are exceptions, but my comments are meant for those who are stuck in failing public schools and lack the monetary resources to attend a private school.

Of course I'll homeschool my kids, but that's just because I'm a "right-wing nutjob"



[Edited on June 14, 2007 at 4:00 PM. Reason : .]

6/14/2007 3:59:17 PM

My kid will "probably" go to private elementary and middle schools, and will "likely" go to public high schools.

theres a number of reasons for this, some of which have to do with the current state of our local (Seattle) schools

i dont believe that public schools are inherently bad. but if you withdraw the tax monies supporting public schools, they will only get worse. and the fact is, many kids are never going to go to private schools no matter what kind of vouchers are available.

private school tuition already IS tax deductible. it is affordable for the average family if they want to make the sacrifices necessary. we will have to make sacrifices to pay for it.

but i want the public school system to succeed. in the best of all possible worlds, all kids (mine included) would go to the public schools.

but right now, though, the shit is fucked up, largely due to policies such as GWB's "No Child Left Behind"

6/14/2007 6:53:39 PM

Quote :

"No Child Left Behind"

pretty much EVERY person that works in education has nothing positive to say about this program. I just wonder why it is still around if it is so unpopular. B.c I am sure George W. knows more about education then all the teachers and principals of america .

What america needs is a multi-tiered system like the have in UK, China, and a lot of other countries. The smart ones and students who want to work hard go the college prep program. Then those like little Tyrone who doesn't have the capability or interest in learning and going to college enters some kind of vocational program.

6/16/2007 1:55:06 PM

most of europe is also like that.

and its largely up to the kids and parents which direction they take. if there's a will and an effort, almost any kid can go the "Gymnasium -> Universitaat" route.

6/16/2007 7:55:45 PM

Quote :

"I was listening awhile to John/Jeff as they cracked on 13 year old Evan O'Dorney, this years 2007 Scripps National Spelling Bee Champion. (winning word: serrefine). They were ridiculing the fact that Evan had been home-schooled and not turned over to the gov't system.. How he is probably a social outcast and can never play effectively in team sports because his parents promoted his individuality. It was disgusting to listen to this two smary collectivists belittling this kid for his personal achievemnts. There is a war on the individual and self-acheivement in this country-perpetuated by the right some...but mostly by the left."

It was last Friday morning, and I heard the same show on my way to work. I could honestly say that both of the guys (John & Jeff) have a severe inferiority complex when talking about O'Dorney. It was as if some homeschool kid beat them up when they were in grade school and they never learned to cope with it. It was pathetic to hear two grown "men" go off on this thirteen year old simply because he was home-schooled.

I think there was something else there.

6/16/2007 10:22:14 PM