Quote :

"Yes, I am against invasion of private citizens privacy. I however am not against government oversight, they are two different issues. Hell, FISA and the Patriot Act really doesn't have anything to do with the Presidential Records Act, it was an inadvertent red herring I threw out that you apparently didn't catch."

You never responded to that.

6/19/2007 12:58:11 PM

I'm pretty sure you have to ask a question to expect to get an answer

6/19/2007 1:00:19 PM

Quote :

"neoclowns"

classic.


someone should start a REMEMBER WHEN THEY MURDERED VINCE FOSTER!?!?!? thread

[Edited on June 19, 2007 at 1:06 PM. Reason : .]

6/19/2007 1:05:57 PM

Speaking of documents and revealing them

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/06/judge_orders_fb.html

6/19/2007 1:39:41 PM

Quote :

"It's not okay for any of these pretentious pricks to 'lose' their shit like this and continually abuse their power. They should be held responsible for their crimes, ALL OF THEM. "

Couldn't Agree More.

6/19/2007 2:49:11 PM

could be worse. you could have someone go into, oh, i dunno, the Library of Congress, and accidently remove files, right?

6/19/2007 6:38:53 PM

WAIT FOR IT....

The hooksaw response should be coming soon.

6/19/2007 6:52:32 PM

this really does smack of partisan bull-shit. why exactly do the Democrats want access to these emails? is there some investigation going on that requires access to them? or are they just fishing for some kind of scandal?

sure, the white house is supposed to keep track of this shit, and I'm willing to bet they have all the info but are holding out because it's RNC related. Should the WH have been using gubment computers to host RNC shit? of course not. But it's really not a big deal, just like Clinton's BJ wasn't a big deal.

So the Dems figure they can get Dubya either way on this. If he was improperly using WH resources, they can slam him for that. If he wasn't, then maybe they can catch dubya with his pants down for not keeping immaculate records. If they really care about every last "i" being crossed, then how bout we check EVERYONE in Congress to make sure they are backing up important emails and stuff correctly. While we are at it, why don't we start checking everyone's travel expenses and campaign contributions and whatnot. Don't just stop the fishing expedition where it is politically convenient to do so...

6/19/2007 10:15:22 PM

This is related to the Gonzalez problem, they didn't just randomly request emails for no reason.

6/19/2007 11:05:22 PM

This...

Quote :

"this really does smack of partisan bull-shit. why exactly do the Democrats want access to these emails? is there some investigation going on that requires access to them? or are they just fishing for some kind of scandal?"

...and this...

Quote :

"like i said, he's not the first to do this, and wont be the last..."

...really piss me off, because bullshit like this takes away from the real issue at hand - the credibility and competency of our president and his administration.

True, the Bush Administration is not the first to "lose" potentially incriminating documents. I'm wouldn't doubt that Hillary lost a few things that could have come back to bite her. I bet Bush Sr. did the same thing, along with Reagan, Carter, Ford, hell I bet good ol' James Monroe torched a few parchments in his day. I understand this, and I hope none of us are naive enough not to...

Accepting this fact however doesn't change the fact that it's WRONG. The difference is past politicians seems to have done a bit better job (1) covering their tracks, and (2) not embarrassing themselves or their country in the process. This situation is another fucking embarrassment to our country. The Bush Administration and the GOP not only blatently broke a rather straightforward law, they did it on an exceptionally massive fucking scale during the same time that their OTHER fucking embarrassments like Iraq, the outing of Valerie Plame, and Alberto Gonzolez were biting them in the collective ass.

This is not partisan hackery. This is the political equivalent of playing connect-the-dots with a 5-year-old. Don't bother paging salisburyboy, the story writes itself. The GOP fucking shot itself again and it's the Democrats fault? Pardon me, conservative pundits, but back the fuck off.

Oh yeah, and by the way, I'm saying "fuck" and several varities of "fuck" because I'm sick and fucking tired of all these fucking fuckups by these in-fucking-competent fucks running my fucking government! I don't care whether their Democrats, Republicans, Whigs, green party or Bull-fucking-Mooses. The bottom line is I'm embarrassed by our President and the idealogial partisan hacks he's surrounded himself with.

And the sad thing is that my ideological and political differences with Bush aren't the issue. It's the scandals, the hackery, the refusal to change policy, the inability to admit mistakes and errors. I hate how he represents us as a nation. That is why I cut him no slack, and no self-respecting American should either.

He and his GOP cronies deserve every last bit of fucking criticism they get. Fuck them all the a rusty spoon.

[Edited on June 20, 2007 at 1:53 PM. Reason : sdf]

6/20/2007 1:51:30 PM

Quote :

"Bull-fucking-Mooses"

I lol'ed

oh, and yeah: signed, to the rest of all that ^. that's the whole essence here, i think.

6/20/2007 3:33:12 PM

A lot of republicans should be angry at the bush administration for bastardizing the traditional conservative platform with the NeoCon agenda. Instead of small government they have just increased the scope of the federal gov't and spending. They reduce social welfare in favor of corporate welfare.

50 years from now I would honestly not be surprised if Bush is known as one of the WORST president and biggest screw ups in American history. I think he belongs in the list with

Nixon
Harding
Hoover
etc

6/20/2007 3:47:18 PM

at least Nixon engaged China, and Hoover built a cool dam.

i dont know what the hell the resident chimpanzee at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave has done worthwhile.

6/20/2007 5:43:26 PM

Quote :

"Accepting this fact however doesn't change the fact that it's WRONG. "

so, why aren't you calling for investigations into other obvious avenues of corruption? why are you focusing SOLELY on the republican party? if you hate corruption, then you should hate all of it, not just republican corruption.

Quote :

"This is related to the Gonzalez problem, they didn't just randomly request emails for no reason."

ahhh, so in other words, it IS just a fishing expedition and it is partisan politics as usual.

6/20/2007 9:12:54 PM

Quote :

"i dont know what the hell the resident chimpanzee at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave has done worthwhile."

that is a tough one. He did increase day light savings time from March through November . I do like the extra few weeks of the sun setting later.

6/20/2007 9:22:44 PM

^^

Quote :

"It's not okay for any of these pretentious pricks to 'lose' their shit like this and continually abuse their power. They should be held responsible for their crimes, ALL OF THEM."

-SkankinMonky

No one deserves a free pass. This particular thread calls out the Bush Administration for breaking the law. Given the evidence available, this appears to be a reasonable accusation. If you would like to start another thread to discuss other politicians skirting the law by losing key documents, you may feel free to do so. When such threads are created, I will be happy to throw the book at the politicians in question provided the evidence aganist them appears credible.

Until then, shut the fuck up you fucking troll. If you don't like the fact that TWWers bitch about Bush so much, then for the love of God would you please go tell him to stop doing so much stupid shit. It's not our fault you support a president who couldn't find his ass with two hands and a map.

[Edited on June 21, 2007 at 10:40 PM. Reason : so]

6/21/2007 10:39:55 PM

^
So you want to bash Bush in peace...I understand.

6/22/2007 9:33:03 AM

this is on par with Clinton's BJ, though. AKA, absolutely nothing is really happening. why focus on something INCONSEQUENTIAL when there are for worse things going on out there? oh, that's right, it's just far more convenient to bash the other party.

6/22/2007 1:40:39 PM

Quote :

"this is on par with Clinton's BJ"

in which way?

that destroying presidential records, in violation of a Congressional Act, and containing records of possible criminal conspiracies (a la Watergate's "18 1/2 minutes of silence") .... is on par with Clinton's BJ, because they both are instances of someone trying to hide an extramarital affair?

... or ...

that destroying presidential records, in violation of a Congressional Act, and containing records of possible criminal conspiracies (a la Watergate's "18 1/2 minutes of silence") ... is on par with Clinton's BJ, because they both are instances of how a sitting President should be impeached?

please clarify.





[Edited on June 22, 2007 at 2:15 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2007 2:08:53 PM

Quote :

"This situation is another fucking embarrassment to our country."

yes, im sure folks in europe really give a fuck that the democrats have their panties in a wad over potentially incriminating emails that have vanished...

6/22/2007 2:11:43 PM

^ no, Bush is an embarrassment. this instance is just more evidence of the corruption endemic in this administration, and how they consider themselves to be above the law.

6/22/2007 2:14:31 PM

one big difference in this and Clinton's beej (aside from the fact that one is lost/destroyed emails and ones a hummer...you know, the obvious difference) is that Clinton was found guilty and impeached...these allegations are still allegations at the current time

not that that couldnt change...but as of right now

6/22/2007 2:16:11 PM

ok, ill rephrase that... do you think anyone outside the US gives a fuck about this instance?

6/22/2007 3:02:55 PM

Quote :

"do you think anyone outside the US gives a fuck"

not sure why this is so important to you, but the answer is *yes*.

but "why" you ask? lets see .... the whole thing came to national prominence when Gonzalez fired the US Atty's for political reasons. this event, with the resulting political crisis for the Bush Administration, made international news.

and the resulting Congressional investigation, interesting enough on its own merit, turned up a number of important and related connections ... including:

-- Gonzalez's (already known) legal recommendations that torture was an acceptable practice at Guantanamo

-- the (previously unknown) event where Gonzalez and Andrew Card (then White House Chief of Staff) attempted to strongarm a very sick John Ashcroft into signing off Justice Dept. approval on a White House policy to electronically eavesdrop on US Citizens. while Ashcroft lay hospitalized and recovering from major surgery. Ashcroft refused, and the White House went ahead and did it anyhow.

all of this led Congress to request White House documents under the Presidential Records Act, a federal law.

to which the White House replied:

Quote :

"oopsie. looks like someone deleted MILLIONS of our emails. sorry, bout that. guess we goofed. but hey, what can you do? LOLLERS."

this is definitely of international interest. perhaps the international interest is due more to a voyeuristic nature, a shake-your-head kind of thing, where they're thinking, "Damn, the US really is fucked up"

while it's certainly of more immediate importance to US citizens, as a fundamental issue of our government's accountability and integrity.

In any event, here are a sampling of relevant articles on the subject published by international media

Germany
http://www.cio.de/news/cio_worldnews/838330/index3.html
New Zealand
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4100607a12.html
Netherlands
http://www.webwereld.nl/articles/45956/retrieval-tips-offered-for-lost-white-house-e-mails.html
Croatia
http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=54577
Britain
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6554211.stm
Canada
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/070618/us/net_usa_politics_email_dc
Scotland
http://news.scotsman.com/latest_technology.cfm?id=958382007
US, significant international readership
http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/19/0018249

6/23/2007 3:14:12 AM

Quote :

"So you want to bash Bush in peace...I understand."

You fucking troll. Come back when you can explain why it is that this latest example of gross neglience and lack of accountability in our government is acceptable. The fact that I'm bashing the Bush administration has nothing to do with my general distaste for their ability to run our country. It has everything to do with the fact that they broke the law and deserve to be criticized for it.

And just to reiterrate:

Quote :

"If you don't like the fact that TWWers bitch about Bush so much, then for the love of God would you please go tell him to stop doing so much stupid shit."

Oh and this...

Quote :

" why focus on something INCONSEQUENTIAL when there are for worse things going on out there? oh, that's right, it's just far more convenient to bash the other party."

...is fucking retarded for the same reasons. Once again, please explain how the Bush Administration breaking the law by failing to save government-related emails is "inconsequesntial."


And you accuse me of partisan hackery? I beg your pardon, but fuck you

6/24/2007 2:39:05 AM

Quote :

"Come back when you can explain why it is that this latest example of gross neglience and lack of accountability in our government is acceptable."

I'm back.

I agree with you that gross negligence and lack of accountability by gov't is never acceptable.
As a cynic of political action, I just want to make sure you are fair in your distribution of vitriol for both parties. The GOP clearly has no monopoly on corruption and incompetence.

6/24/2007 10:16:40 AM

It's pretty hard to criticize the left for doing such a terrible job running the presidency....WHEN THEY AREN'T RUNNING THE PRESIDENCY AT THE MOMENT.

How many times does it have to be said in here before you partisan hacks get the picture. If/when the left wins the presidency, and they do a bad job of running the country (because I think we are all of the same opinion that anyone running the show will end up doing a bad job eventually), then we will be just as vocal in our critique as we are now with the right.

Christ, the onus is on you to demonize the left as a right leaning poster here. So make the threads, and we'll talk about it. If you can't find enough juicy/interesting stories to bash the left about, that should tell you something.

6/24/2007 12:26:00 PM

yeah, that damned 'ol Bill Clinton he just shit all over the Office of the Presidency, I tell you what.

getting blow jobs in the Oval Office. Good Lord.

Hell, i don't care if gas was $1.80 and real income was at an all time high, the US was on a sustained budget surplus for the first time in 30 years, and there was relative peace on earth.

cuz, you just don't do that nasty stuff in the White House. I don't care who you are.

6/24/2007 1:29:45 PM

Quote :

"getting blow jobs in the Oval Office. Good Lord."

Thank Jesus that congress tried to impeach Bill too bad the liberal agenda prevented it from happening.

Our boy George has had no where near the controversy or fuck ups as Clinton [/sarcasm]




^ yeah that is an excellent point. I just pray W does not start WW3 until we can get him out of office

[Edited on June 24, 2007 at 1:56 PM. Reason : l]

[Edited on June 24, 2007 at 1:58 PM. Reason : l]

6/24/2007 1:56:14 PM

Quote :

"As a cynic of political action, I just want to make sure you are fair in your distribution of vitriol for both parties. The GOP clearly has no monopoly on corruption and incompetence."

True, but this point has already been addressed...

Quote :

"If you would like to start another thread to discuss other politicians skirting the law by losing key documents, you may feel free to do so. When such threads are created, I will be happy to throw the book at the politicians in question provided the evidence aganist them appears credible."

... so bringing it up again makes you guilty of the partisan hackery you're warning me about. We got the message, now move on.

6/24/2007 10:44:00 PM

6/25/2007 10:56:45 AM