Quote :

"The Morgenthau Plan, as originally drafted, was not implemented. The plan was modified, and the post-war plan for Germany was modeled off the orginial Morgenthau Plan, and included many of its features, including the partitioning of Germany, the weakening of Germany economically and militarily, etc."

Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow up there, hoss. Partition, yes. But to say that we "weakened Germany's economy" at all is ludicrous. We poured money into Germany and helped return it to the status of major world economic power within, what, a little more than a decade? Not bad, all things considered.

And the Morgenthau plan called for a systematic dismantling of German industry to the point of making it an agrarian society. To compare any of our postwar actions to that is...well, it's exactly the sort of thing you would do, come to think.

7/2/2007 5:42:07 PM

Quote :

"The Morgenthau Plan, as originally drafted, was not implemented. The plan was modified, and the post-war plan for Germany was modeled off the orginial Morgenthau Plan, and included many of its features, including the partitioning of Germany, the weakening of Germany economically and militarily, etc."

Good lord you're reaching.

The partitioning of Germany was decided at the Yalta Conference as a way of appeasing the Soviets and had nothing to do with the Morgenthau Plan which, once again, was never implemented.

Again, Germany was not economically weakened. Their industry was rebuilt under the Marshall plan and was more successful than any other post-war European economy - this applies to both East and West Germany.

Germany wasn't significantly weakened militarily. They were the front lines of the Cold War and as such were well armed members of NATO and boasted one of the largest European conventional armies.

As usual, your "facts" are wishful thinking with absolutely no research behind them.

Quote :

"You're going to have to search a little harder in order to find the truth...ie, gather the facts and then begin to connect the dots. The reality that elite Jewish interests (connected to international banking...eg, the Rothschild family) control the governments of Europe & the U.S. (and have for well over a century) is overwhelmingly documented & proven by the historical record (eg, historical writings, accounts, works, etc)."

Well then make a case for it instead of telling us that we need to connect the dots. We've all seen your research and it involves the careful selection of anything that tangentially supports what you want to think and tossing aside everything else. You only connect the dots that you want to see and as such always end up with a horribly disfigured image. If its so easy to see, why aren't there any legitimate historians who share your beliefs?

You've also displayed an absolute failure to understand who the Rothschilds are. You're going to have to provide more than "Look! Rich Jews!" to prove that they rule the world.

Quote :

"Two of the most pre-eminent political scholars in the U.S. even wrote a paper about how these elite Jewish interests (ie, what they termed the "Israeli Lobby") have a virtual stranglehold on the U.S. Congress and Executive Branch and a vast influence on our foreign policy."

You've also displayed an absolute failure to understand the difference between influence and control.

7/2/2007 5:52:28 PM

So, it was awful to firebomb Dresden, yet you conveniently leave out all of the V1's and V2's launched at europe, as well as the indiscriminate bombing of London and other British areas by the Germans... good work.

By the way, I'm fairly certain that Hitler laid out his plan to get rid of the Jews pretty clearly in Mein Kampf, but that's just me...

7/2/2007 7:34:00 PM

i thought these were pretty informative and didn't know where to put them, so i put them here:

http://www.genocidewatch.org/eightstages.htm

http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=21398

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/133p/133p04papers/JChapelNanjing046.htm

http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/news/news/2004/rwanda_032304.htm

http://www.sonoma.edu/pubs/newsrelease/archives/000994.html

http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6196226.stm

7/2/2007 10:33:23 PM

^^ He also left out any mention of the german Einsatzgruppen whose history is extremely well documented on a unit by unit basis.

7/3/2007 1:17:19 AM

Let me start this out by saying I am Jewish (by birth, not practice).

Hitler believed the Jews to have been responsible for WWI, and Germany's state thereafter. The Jews, according to Ole Adolf, ran the economy into the ground and then lied to the Allies about the German government. This sparked the Holocaust. Even Hitler's journals which have been documented as legitimate by every source in the whole world confirm this.

Adolf Hitler is responsible for WWII, and to believe anything else is foolish. But I gotta hand it to you salisburyboy, you have provided myself and my coworkers with a lot to talk about.

Now, for the sake of argument, you've already shown evidence of atrocities against Germany, but everyone already acknowledges that atrocities were made against both sides. Germany is responsible for killing millions upon millions, and not just Jews, and the retaliation was swift and strong. What makes the attacks on Germany any more important or relevant than the attacks by Germany?

7/3/2007 3:25:14 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan

Quote :

"Implementation Some of the Morgenthau Plan was implemented, and some came very close to being implemented. The Morgenthau Plan spawned the JCS-1067[4], which contained the ideas of making Germany a "Pastoral State". This concept's name was later changed to become "level of industry", where Germany's production was to be severely limited but not completely eliminated. No new locomotives were to be built until 1949, most industries were to have their production halved. Automobile production was to be set at 10% of its [pre-war] 1936 level, etc."

And I wonder what influenced the decision to intentionally starve to death 3 million Germans, including 2 million German civilians?

Quote :

"The US Treasury Secretary, Henry Morgenthau, favoured turning Germany into a gigantic farm, and there were genocidal Nazi-like schemes afoot to starve, sterilise or deport the population of what was left of the bombed-out cities."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/04/15/bomac14.xml

Quote :

"Morgenthau had written a book outlining the full Morgenthau Plan, Germany is Our Problem. In November 1945 General Eisenhower, Military Governor of the U.S. Occupation Zone, approved the distribution of one thousand free copies of the book to American military officials in Germany.[47] By February 28, 1947 it was estimated that 4,160,000 German former prisoners of war, by General Eisenhower relabeled as Disarmed Enemy Forces in order to negate the Geneva Convention, were used as forced labor in work camps outside Germany: 3,000,000 in Russia, 750,000 in France, 400,000 in Britain and 10,000 in Belgium. [6] (see also Eisenhower and German POWs#American forced labor policy in Germany shortly after the war) Meanwhile in Germany large parts of the population were starving at a time when according to a study done by former US President Herbert Hoover the nutritional condition in Germany's neighboring countries was nearly pre-war normal"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan

So U.S. military officials in occupied Germany were encouraged to read Morgenthau's FULL plan & propaganda about how Germany needed to be destroyed....and then 3 million Germans are deliberately starved to death. Interesting.




[Edited on July 3, 2007 at 7:48 AM. Reason : 3]

7/3/2007 7:32:39 AM

Quote :

"In contemporary Germany, extreme right-wing circles present it as a Jewish plan for enslaving Germany"

I just can't figure out why the lamestream doesn't pick up on this juicy stuff. I mean, it's all right there in history right?

7/3/2007 7:57:29 AM

Quote :

"and then 3 million Germans are deliberately starved to death."

Did you prove this yet? Don't get me wrong, people were starving to death all over the place, even London, England. But three million sounds a bit high, even for a country that had been bombed into the stone age.

Even if we accept three million, you can never underestimate the hardship and destruction generated by wage and price controls, as was continued in Germany after the war until being mostly abolished on Sunday, June 20, 1948.

[Edited on July 3, 2007 at 8:58 AM. Reason : .,.]

7/3/2007 8:45:49 AM

Hey salisburyboy

Before we get too far off track with the discussion of the Morgenthau Plan, let's go back to your original post in this thread.

Quote :

" In reality, only around 200k-300k Jews died during WWII."

Please prove that the number was "around 200k-300k" and not 6 million.

Quote :

"Furthermore, while there was no actual plan to "exterminate the Jews""

Please refute the mountains of evidence indicating that there was, including Hitler's own speeches calling for such extermination.

Quote :

"there was a REAL plan of genocide against Germans (orchestrated by powerful Jewish elites who controlled the U.S. and other Western powers). "

Please prove that
a) U.S. and other Western powers were controlled by powerful Jewish elites
b) These Jewish elites hatched a plan of genocide against Germans
c) Explain why Jews would want to exterminate Germans

Quote :

"WWII, like WWI and the other major wars of the past several centuries, were orchestrated by powerful Jewish elites tied to international banking for the specific purpose of killing off vast numbers of non-Jewish "gentiles" (and especially white Christians)...as well as bankrupting the nations involved, drowning them in debt, and making a fortune for the Jewish bankers. "

a) Prove every one of the claims you made in the snippet above.
b) So which is it: did the Jews want exterminate Germans or bankrupt them and drown them in debt?

All right, buddy, you've got a lot of work to do and questions to answer. Get to it!

7/3/2007 9:17:20 AM

Quote :

"Explain why Jews would want to exterminate Germans"

Read the Babylonian Talmud. Read the Protocols. Read any number of other Jewish writings, including the book Germany Must Perish! by Theodore Kaufman.

The religion of "Judaism", as based in the Babylonian Talmud, is a continuation of Babylonian occultism (ie, Satanism), and teaches that the Jews are superior to all other races (which are to be ragarded as mere "cattle" according to the Talmud), and that the Jews will one day subdue the other "inferior" races and rule the earth.

And remember, the so-called "Jews" are NOT the (pure-blooded) descendants of the Israelites. They are imposters. And their religion is, in reality, pure Satanism.

Revelation 2:9: "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

And what does Satan desire? To destroy God's true Israelite people (ie, European/white Christians), and to conquer the world for Satan.

7/3/2007 12:32:14 PM

Someone got all their information from biblebelievers.org, apparently.

7/3/2007 12:37:09 PM

^^ christian identity movement

http://www.kingidentity.com/

Quote :

"Kingdom Identity Ministries is a Politically Incorrect Christian Identity outreach ministry to God's chosen race (true Israel, the White, European peoples)."

7/3/2007 1:53:49 PM

Quote :

"So U.S. military officials in occupied Germany were encouraged to read Morgenthau's FULL plan & propaganda about how Germany needed to be destroyed....and then 3 million Germans are deliberately starved to death. Interesting."

If you will actually read the full text of your own article you'll find that one million of those are German soldiers who died in Soviet camps. The bulk of the rest died in eastern Europe, far out of reach of any U.S. military official. You're contradicting your own sources.

Your article also makes several mistakes. Patton was never sacked for his attitude towards the soviets.

Quote :

"Read the Protocols."

The Protocols are a proven forgery. You have failed to provide any evidence of their authenticity. I've asked you to refute the original article that refuted it in 1921 and all that you could do was find an article that clumsily tried to plug the holes with excuses and logical fallacies.

Good heavens, it amazed me that people still believe in Christian identism. Its another debunked Victorian pseudoscience that can be thrown in the trash bin with phrenology and spiritualism

[Edited on July 3, 2007 at 2:09 PM. Reason : .]

7/3/2007 2:09:04 PM

Quote :

"c) Explain why Jews would want to exterminate Germans"

It's all right there in salisburyboy's posts.
a) Jews were, in reality, pure Satanists
b) Germans were the pure Master Race
c) Satan and God are pure enemies

7/3/2007 4:17:38 PM

Quote :

"including the book Germany Must Perish! by Theodore Kaufman."

Imagine that. A jewish-american is outraged after finding out about German atrocities against the jews and their forced sterilization/euthenasia of their own populace. He was simply echoing a sentiment that was very common in the US during the 1940s - after Germans made it clear that they wanted all jews to perish.

Quote :

"The religion of "Judaism", as based in the Babylonian Talmud, is a continuation of Babylonian occultism (ie, Satanism), and teaches that the Jews are superior to all other races (which are to be ragarded as mere "cattle" according to the Talmud), and that the Jews will one day subdue the other "inferior" races and rule the earth."

I can use the same tricks and make the bible look like a pamphlet from satan if I take quotes out of context and approach it with the ignorance that you are known for.

Quote :

"Revelation 2:9: "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.""

Just like you're taking that out of context because it supports the worldview that you have created based on your own insecurities.

Quote :

"To destroy God's true Israelite people (ie, European/white Christians), and to conquer the world for Satan."

There is no evidence to support the theory that europeans are descended from the lost tribes of Israel. This is just wishful thinking on the part of people like you.

[Edited on July 3, 2007 at 4:50 PM. Reason : .]

7/3/2007 4:49:59 PM

Quote :

"There is no evidence to support the theory that europeans [the "jews"] are descended from the lost tribes of Israel."

7/3/2007 5:28:25 PM

Excellent rebuttal. I don't understand how anyone could ever accuse you of avoiding rational discussion.

7/3/2007 7:22:11 PM

Quote :

"salisbot : "There is no evidence to support the theory that [the "jews"] are descended from the lost tribes of Israel.""

and that would be clever of you, except for the fact that it's not the case.

the Northern tribes of Israel (as distinct from the Southern tribes of Judah) were conquered by Shalmaneser of Assyria c.722 BCE. these peoples were regionally dispersed, and many of them were taken to Assyria and their descendants are still found there.

unique genetic markers are reproducibly located as evidence linking several minority ethnic groups of the middle east, afghanistan, iraq, and africa, to those European Jews descended from the Aaronid line of priests (the "Kohanim" or modern-day "Cohen"s) ... also known as the Northern tribe of Levi (aka, the Levites).

You'll recall that Aaron was the brother of Moses and the High Priest of the Israelites during their escape from bondage in Israel, c.1350 BCE.

at which time, your glorious British/Germanic ancestors were living in mud hovels and spending their days caked in their own feces, alternately gnawing on bones and picking berries or worshiping the moon and sun.

7/3/2007 7:28:20 PM

ok guys, start your explanations from here using groups of haplotypes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup


there is a large scale project underway by National Geographic and IBM Life Sciences studying this.

7/3/2007 9:43:14 PM

Quote :

"at which time, your glorious British/Germanic ancestors were living in mud hovels and spending their days caked in their own feces, alternately gnawing on bones and picking berries or worshiping the moon and sun."

Living squaloring in feces and in the virtual stone ages is how many non-whites are still living to this very day, and most others would be if it were not for the white/European man.

You keep believing those jewish lies.

7/5/2007 7:35:45 AM

^ Wait wait, so joe_schmoe's claim that c.1350 BCE the ancestors of the modern British/Germanic people were living in mud huts caked in their own feces worshipping the sun and the moon is "Jewish lies"? Sorry, but that's historical fact. And if you are claiming that what he said about genetic markers linking direct descendants of the lost tribes of Israel to European Jews "Jewish lies" you have to do more to refute his claim there than simply dismiss it as "Jewish lies." Also, you have yet to prove any of those outrageous claims you made in your original post in this thread. This is why no one in the Soap Box takes you seriously and why "trolls" single your threads out for pic bombing and other types of trolling.

7/5/2007 10:06:26 AM

Quote :

"This is why no one in the Soap Box takes you seriously and why "trolls" single your threads out for pic bombing and other types of trolling."

If no one took me seriously as you allege, everyone would simply ignore my threads and not post in them.

No. They take me very seriously. The reason the trolls pic-bomb and try to sabotage my threads is in order to attempt to silence my viewpoint/message.

7/5/2007 3:26:27 PM

it's a vast brentroad conspiracy!

7/5/2007 3:32:46 PM

People reply in your threads because it would make everyone in the Soap Box look bad if no one disputed the ignorant nonsense that you post.

No one is trying to silence you, little buddy:

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=484298

7/5/2007 3:34:13 PM

Quote :

"No one is trying to silence you, little buddy"

Some people are, some people aren't

Some people believe in freedom of speech, some don't

Some people are trolls and/or shills, some are respectable people who can engage in a mature discussion/debate even with those they disagree with




[Edited on July 5, 2007 at 3:49 PM. Reason : 3]

7/5/2007 3:46:44 PM

Are you saying that members of this board are actively involved in the Evil Atheist Conspiracy or are followers of the Protocols of Zion?

Wow.

And that is why your ideas are dismissed with such ease.

7/5/2007 3:52:49 PM

You've made it quite obvious that you can't rationally discuss your ideas what you read on the internet.

If you want to stop pointing fingers and trying to take the attention off of your own inadequacies and actually discuss ideas like a rational adult we would all welcome it.

7/5/2007 3:55:10 PM

Quote :

"If no one took me seriously as you allege, everyone would simply ignore my threads and not post in them. No. They take me very seriously. The reason the trolls pic-bomb and try to sabotage my threads is in order to attempt to silence my viewpoint/message. "

No that is not the case. Let me explain to you once and for all why your threads get pic bombed/trolled. You see, there are two types of rules: written and unwritten. Written rules include things like don't murder, don't steal stuff, don't have sex with kids, etc. Unwritten rules include stuff like don't fart at your family's dinner table, don't discuss your scrotum pimples in public, and the like. The Soap Box also has written and unwritten rules. The written rules of the Soap Box include keeping all discussion to topics of political and social issues, no flame wars, no redundant threads, etc. The unwritten rules of the Soap Box include (but are not limited to) in no particular order:

* Backing up all claims you make with evidence in the form of links to credible Web sites
* Staying away from ad hominem attacks such as slander an name calling
* Replying to posts that disagree with your arguments -- Don't get me wrong, we all have lives outside of TWW here, so it's understood that you won't be able to get to some of the posts in your threads. However, consistently shying away from defending your claims will create a problem for you.
* Don't stray too far from the center in your positions -- I am sure some of the SB regulars won't want to admit this one, but I firmly believe that this is one of the unwritten rules of the Soap Box. We have people from all ends of the political spectrum here, from conservatives, to liberals, to libertarians, to socialists, but regardless of which side of the political spectrum Soap Box regulars fall under, they typically stay within a certain radius of the political center. People who stray outside that circle on any side are typically looked at funny here from my experience.

These are some of the unwritten rules of the Soap Box. Breaking unwritten rules carries a punishment, just like breaking written rules does. You break the unwritten rules of the Soap Box every time you post, so you get punished by other posters every time you post. It's that simple.

Oh yeah, and this

Quote :

"If no one took me seriously as you allege, everyone would simply ignore my threads and not post in them."

We've been over this before. People tried ignoring you in the past, but that didn't stop you, so everyone figured if you won't go away, they might as well have fun with you.



[Edited on July 5, 2007 at 4:56 PM. Reason : .]

7/5/2007 4:53:48 PM

Quote :

"If no one took me seriously as you allege, everyone would simply ignore my threads and not post in them."

Do you fucking pay attention to the wolf web at all? I mean, at all? Or do you just post your drivel and occasionally glance at what other people post, and then continue you copy and paste sessions to our joy and entertainment?

The point is, even the most stupid and retarded of threads, threads without god damn titles (nbsp) will get some sort of reply and trolling.

YOUR MESSAGE IS NOT DANGEROUS - PIC BOMBING IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO SILENCE YOU - ARE YOU A STUPID FUCKING IDIOT? IF YOUR MESSAGE WAS SO POWERFUL, DON'T YOU THINK THE ILLUMINATI (which crazyj is probably a member) WOULD HAVE YOUR ACCOUNT TERMINATED? YOU STUPID FUCK STOP TROLLING THIS SECTION YOU AREN'T CUTE LITTLE BUDDY AND KILL YOURSELF TOO

7/5/2007 10:39:19 PM

Quote :

"salisburyboy: Some people are [trying to silence me], some people aren't ... Some people are trolls and/or shills, some are respectable people who can engage in a mature discussion/debate even with those they disagree with"

since this was your reply to Mr. Joshua's citing my FF thread defending your right to post your views... I can only take it that you are including me as one of the group of "people who can engage in a mature discussion/debate even with those they disagree"

but, you see, your only reply to my multiple points refuting your entire premise that Europeans are the "true israelites" ... your reply to my substantive post engaging your argument on its own merits is :

Quote :

"salisburybot: You keep believing those jewish lies."

is this how you behave when debating "mature people ... with whom [you] disagree" ??

its no wonder that people pic bomb your threads and break them with scripts. they know its pointless to argue with you. i still think its worthwhile to allow you your threads, then let anyone/everyone shoot down your bizarre claims, just to maintain integrity of TSB.

not because i think you have anything worthwhile to contribute.

like i quoted in the FF thread for your defense:

Quote :

"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously."

[Edited on July 6, 2007 at 1:13 AM. Reason : ]

7/6/2007 1:09:40 AM

Quote :

"my multiple points refuting your entire premise "

Quote :

"then let anyone/everyone shoot down your bizarre claims"

lol

You (and others) seem to think that anyone who posts so much as a statement of their own saying that they disagree with me has "refuted" me. No sources need to be cited or anything. Boom. I've been "shot down."

What a joke.

7/6/2007 7:33:11 AM

Quote :

"No sources need to be cited or anything"

Please back up at least one of the multitude of outrageous claims you made in your original post in this thread and have not yet proven with some sources

7/6/2007 9:55:23 AM

Holy crap. I've discovered salisburyboy's true identity.



He's an evil Teletubby. He just repeats the same stuff over and over again (if you have ever watched a single show, you will know what I mean).

"Again again!"

7/6/2007 10:16:13 AM

Quote :

"On Cranks The genuine crank is the one who refuses to debate his opponents, who arrogantly dismisses their arguments and denies their credibility, who approves of the suppresson of opinion different from his own, who typically appeals to authority or consensus rather than to facts and logic, whose emotional temperature rises noticeably in the presence of embarrassing counter-arguments, and, above all, who typically labels his opponents as 'cranks'. In contrast, the genuine truth seeker is one who is eager for debate, who is courteous to his opponents, who remains calm in the face of counter-arguments, who does not seek to silence anyone, and above all who does not describe his opponents with epithets, particularly including 'crank', altho their behavior may strongly suggest the aptness of the description. --JBR Yant "

http://www.thebirdman.org/

7/6/2007 11:05:49 AM

Quote :

"In contrast, the genuine truth seeker is one who is eager for debate, who is courteous to his opponents, who remains calm in the face of counter-arguments, who does not seek to silence anyone, and above all who does not describe his opponents with epithets, particularly including 'crank', altho their behavior may strongly suggest the aptness of the description."

Do you honestly think that this describes you? You're too much of a coward to ever have a thoughtful discussion about any of the things that you post here.

Quote :

"If you want to stop pointing fingers and trying to take the attention off of your own inadequacies and actually discuss ideas like a rational adult we would all welcome it."

How about we get back to the issues that you have brought up?

I made a post that included 4 parts of your previous post that showed fault. Instead of making a thoughtful response you copied and pasted what I posted, but crossed out Europeans with the "jews". Does that sound like the post of someone who is seeking rational discussion? If I'm wrong then feel free to present evidence that Europeans are descended from the lost tribes of Israel, don't just make a mindless post and then sit back like you've accomplished something - that is not rational discussion.

Afterwards, joe_schmoe made a post that provided strong evidence that the jews are descended from the lost tribes of Israel. Instead of making a thoughtful response, you said that many non-whites live in squalor (which has nothing to do with the subject) and then called the well documented history of man "jewish lies" and didn't add anything else.

I'll ask again:
Who is avoiding a rational discussion, little buddy?

7/6/2007 12:49:00 PM

I'm not trying to avoiding any of the points/counterarguments users are making. I simply don't have the time in the day to respond to every single question or statement made. And many of the subjects/issues raised are in regard to things I have already posted extensively on (eg, the issue of who are the descendants of the Israelites, the issue of the authenticity of the Protocols, the agenda of white genocide by the ruling Jewish elite, etc).

So if you want to know what I've already said on those subjects, here...

Who are the real Israelites?
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=389848

Jewish Cabal Targets White Race for Extermination
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=407701



[Edited on July 6, 2007 at 1:26 PM. Reason : .........................................]

7/6/2007 1:25:43 PM

Quote :

"On Crankstrolls"

Quote :

"The genuine crank is the one who refuses to debate his opponents"

You mean the way you keep weaseling your way out of debating your claims?

Quote :

", who arrogantly dismisses their arguments and denies their credibility,"

You mean the way you automatically dismiss any facts that go against your claims as "jewish lies" promoted by the "lamestream media"?

Quote :

"who typically appeals to authority"

You mean the way you keep quoting the Bible without ever questioning your interpretation of it, much less whether or not everything the Bible says is literally true?

Quote :

" or consensus rather than to facts and logic,"

You mean the way you like to bring up how just a generation ago most White people were against race mixing?

Quote :

"whose emotional temperature rises noticeably in the presence of embarrassing counter-arguments,"

You mean the way you get your panties in a wad whenever someone questions your premise that race mixing is a bad thing or your claim that there's an evil Jewish conspiracy?

Quote :

"and, above all, who typically labels his opponents as 'cranks'.trolls"

You mean the way you continuasly call Mr. Joshua and joe_schmoe a troll even though they always try to engage you in a rational civil debate?

7/6/2007 2:22:38 PM

Quote :

"I'm not trying to avoiding any of the points/counterarguments users are making. I simply don't have the time in the day to respond to every single question or statement made."

That blatant misrepresentation. No one is asking you to respond to every single question or statement. There is a difference between failing to address every statement and purposefully avoiding discussion and instead pasting unrelated articles.

Quote :

"So if you want to know what I've already said on those subjects, here..."

I know what you've already said. Sadly, those threads don't prove anything - they're just more of you avoiding discussion and pasting articles from other websites. Your quickness to point at your previous threads is just another one of your transparent tricks to avoid discussion.

7/6/2007 2:56:51 PM

Quote :

"Are you saying that members of this board are actively involved in the Evil Atheist Conspiracy or are followers of the Protocols of Zion?"

i know i am

but since none of you believe him

im safe

7/6/2007 3:06:30 PM

Quote :

"There is a difference between failing to address every statement and purposefully avoiding discussion and instead pasting unrelated articles....Sadly, those threads don't prove anything - they're just more of you avoiding discussion and pasting articles from other websites."

Look, joshua. Your denial tactics are as plain as day. I could answer every question given and provide 100% ironclad proof for my positions, and you would still be here prattling away saying I'm "avoiding discussion", "pasting articles and websites" (oooooh...not PASTING!), and "not proving my claims."

7/6/2007 3:28:49 PM

lol but you have yet to do that one time

just run an experiment

post your 100% ironclad proof and see what happens

7/6/2007 3:49:03 PM

Real facts and evidence don't matter to people who have decided to be against the truth. Their objective is to prevent the facts, evidence and truth from being presented in the first place (eg, silence/censor those telling the truth)...then if the truth is told, employ various tactics to distract from, suppress, or smear the truth (eg, smear and blindly dismiss those telling the truth as "conspiracy theorists", "racists", "kooks", etc).




[Edited on July 6, 2007 at 4:05 PM. Reason : 3]

7/6/2007 3:59:06 PM

so then what about the people that havent made up their own mind? people that arent against the truth?

you are just going to run them off as well if you dont show 100% ironclad proof like you claim you have

if you really can prove all this stuff, you could grow your base and become powerful enough to stop it

youd rather continue squabbling with a few people when there could be millions of people that you could spread your message to with solid proof

i dont think that you are looking at the big picture

i would love to see the 100% solid proof that you have and im sure there are others like me

[Edited on July 6, 2007 at 4:22 PM. Reason : 

7/6/2007 4:18:54 PM

Quote :

"so then what about the people that havent made up their own mind? you are just going to run them off as well if you dont show 100% ironclad proof like you claim you have"

I'm aware of those who are open to the truth and changing their mind according to that. And I would think that those type of people would be perceptive enough to see that I am simply a person concerned with the truth...that I don't have 24 hours/day to devote to this site...and that although I'm not perfect, I have, in fact, made a reasonable effort to respond to legitimate and serious counter-arguments and questions...ie, that I cannot respond to every single question raised.

Further, they are the type that are inquisitive and don't need someone to spoon feed them evidence and information. They have the will to go and search for the truth on their own. All they need is for someone to peak their interest or alert them to an issue.

7/6/2007 4:31:31 PM

Quote :

"Further, they are the type that are inquisitive and don't need someone to spoon feed them evidence and information. They have the will to go and search for the truth on their own. All they need is for someone to peak their interest or alert them to an issue."

maybe

but it seems to me that if you really wanted to build up your base, and this was 100% true, you would be bursting at that seams with this solid evidence and would put it up every where to get it out to as may people as possible

your actions just seem counter-intuitive

you seem to know a lot about the history of jesus and the bible: those guys took their proof (the resurection) and spread it as much as they possibly could by telling people there proof, he was there one day and gone on the third...the message is irrelevant, but your process is bothersome and it does not help your credibility

Quote :

"nd that although I'm not perfect, I have, in fact, made a reasonable effort to respond to legitimate and serious counter-arguments and questions...ie, that I cannot respond to every single question raised. "

you really wouldnt have to respond to every single question raised if you just posted your 100% solid proof...it would speak for itself

[Edited on July 6, 2007 at 4:41 PM. Reason : 

7/6/2007 4:38:45 PM

Quote :

"i would love to see the 100% solid proof that you have and im sure there are others like me"

The proof behind the claims I'm making exists, and is documented and available. But (depending on the issue you're talking about) it's not always that that obvious (eg, there may not be one or two MSM news articles alone that are going to convince you of the veracity of the particular position). For example, coming to the realization of the truth of the elite Jewish nature and drive behind the "new world order" conspiracy is not something you can come to realize simply by reading one or two articles.

The process of coming to the truth on issues involves reading a wide varity of information/evidence, and then squaring that with your own personal observations, thinking logically, etc.

I try to provide as much evidence (eg, news articles, videos, etc) as I can when arguing my case for any position. That said, I don't pretend to have all the answers, all the evidence, or be correct 100% of the time.

Quote :

"and this was 100% true, you would be bursting at that seams with this solid evidence and would put it up every where to get it out to as may people as possible "

I am, in fact, making a determined effort to get the truth out on many of these issues. For example, have you seen my 9/11 thread? There are literally HUNDREDS of pieces of evidence I have presented in the near 60 pages of that thread....dozens of articles and many videos disproving the "official" 9/11 story.

7/6/2007 4:53:21 PM

okay salisburyboy, forgive me for not posting supporting evidence with my earlier refutation of your silly "European Israelite" claims. most of what i used to discredit your baseless rants is common knowledge. Since I was at work, I didn't feel it necessary to take time to explain the obvious to you

But since you insist on defending your Aryan Nation propaganda by repeatedly squawking, "JEWISH LIES", I'll take a moment to spell it out for you


joe_schmoe: the Northern tribes of Israel (as distinct from the Southern tribes of Judah) were conquered by Shalmaneser of Assyria c.722 BCE. these peoples were regionally dispersed, and many of them were taken to Assyria and their descendants are still found there.

Quote :

"Shalmaneser V invaded Israel in the days of Hoshea, and reduced it to vassalage. He laid siege to Samaria (723 BCE), which held out for three years, and was at length captured by Sargon II, who completed the conquest Shalmaneser had begun (2 Kings 18:9-12; 17:3), and removed vast numbers of the tribes into captivity. --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaria --2 Kings 18:9-12 http://net.bible.org/passage.php?passage=2Ki+18:9-12 Under [Sargon II's] rule, the Assyrians completed the defeat of the Kingdom of Israel, capturing Samaria after a siege of three years and exiling the inhabitants. This became the basis of the legends of the Lost Ten Tribes. --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargon_II --Isaiah 20:1 http://biblebrowser.com/isaiah/20-1.htm The Basalt Victory Stele of Sargon II c.700 BCE, and Relief of King Sargon II "I besieged and conquered Samaria, led away as booty 27,290 inhabitants of it. I formed from among them a contingent of 50 chariots and made remaining (inhabitants) assume their (social) positions. I installed over them an officer of mine and imposed upon them the tribute of the former king" --http://www.bible-history.com/assyria_archaeology/ --Ancient Near Eastern Texts (ANET), 284-85 "

joe_schmoe: unique genetic markers are reproducibly located as evidence linking several minority ethnic groups of the middle east, afghanistan, iraq, and africa, to those European Jews descended from the Aaronid line of priests (the "Kohanim" or modern-day "Cohen"s) ... also known as the Northern tribe of Levi (aka, the Levites).

Quote :

"In the first study, as reported in the prestigious British science journal, Nature (January 2, 1997), 188 Jewish males were asked to contribute some cheek cells from which their DNA was extracted for study. Participants from Israel, England and North America were asked to identify whether they were a Kohen, Levi or Israelite, and to identify their family background. The results of the analysis of the Y chromosome markers of the Kohanim and non-Kohanim were indeed significant. A particular marker, (YAP-) was detected in 98.5 percent of the Kohanim, and in a significantly lower percentage on non-Kohanim. In a second study, Dr. Skorecki and associates gathered more DNA samples and expanded their selection of Y chromosome markers. Solidifying their hypothesis of the Kohens' common ancestor, they found that a particular array of six chromosomal markers were found in 97 of the 106 Kohens tested. This collection of markers has come to be known as the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH)--the standard genetic signature of the Jewish priestly family. The chances of these findings happening at random is greater than one in 10,000. The finding of a common set of genetic markers in both Ashkenazi and Sefardi Kohanim worldwide clearly indicates an origin pre-dating the separate development of the two communities around 1000 C.E. Date calculation based on the variation of the mutations among Kohanim today yields a time frame of 106 generations from the ancestral founder of the line, some 3,300 years, the approximate time of the Exodus from Egypt, the lifetime of Aharon HaKohen. ... Wider genetic studies of diverse present day Jewish communities show a remarkable genetic cohesiveness. Jews from Iran, Iraq, Yemen, North Africa and European Ashkenazim all cluster together with other Semitic groups, with their origin in the Middle East. A common geographical origin can be seen for all mainstream Jewish groups studied. -- http://www.cohen-levi.org/jewish_genes_and_genealogy/the_dna_chain_of_tradition.htm -- Journal of Human Mutation 24 (2004) -- http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Shen2004.pdf "

and let's not forgot India:

Quote :

"Extensive DNA testing has found the Bene Israelis, clustered in and around the western city of Bombay, are direct descendants of a hereditary Israelite priesthood that can be traced back 3,000 years to Moses' brother, Aaron." -- Developing World Bioethics 3:2 (December 2003) "Of the Indian datasets, only the Bene Israel carry the Cohen Modal Haplotype..." -- Wall Street Journal (May 11, 1998) -- from http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-cohen-levite.html "

joe_schmoe: You'll recall that Aaron was the brother of Moses and the High Priest of the Israelites during their escape from bondage in Israel, c.1350 BCE.

Quote :

"The name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, who was born to Levi in Egypt; and she bore to Amram: Aaron and Moses and their sister Miriam.... Aaron was consecrated as High Priest of all Israel, representing the priestly tribe of Levi --http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/aaron.html --Exodus 6:20, Leviticus 8-9, Numbers 17, etc. "

joe_schmoe:at which time, your glorious British/Germanic ancestors were living in mud hovels and spending their days caked in their own feces, alternately gnawing on bones and picking berries or worshiping the moon and sun.

Quote :

" a Bronze Age culture in Scandinavian pre-history, ca 1800 BC - 500 BC, with sites that reached as far east as Estonia ... is generally considered to be the direct predecessor and origin of Germanic [and later Anglo-Saxon] culture. --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age in the Ancient Near East, the Bronze Age ended and the Iron Age started ca 1200 BC --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age "

so the Semitic peoples were technologically ~700 years advanced relative to the Europeans.

but I will admit: our proto-Saxon forebears weren't caked in their own shit after all. They were perfecting the fine art of rock carving, and learning how to bury their dead in individual graves rather than mass pits. not too bad for illiterate barbarians, eh?



[Edited on July 7, 2007 at 5:39 AM. Reason : ]

7/7/2007 5:16:59 AM

Quote :

"Your denial tactics are as plain as day."

Denial of what? You refuse to rationally discuss ideas. You would rather bitch and moan and paint yourself as a victim.

Quote :

"I could answer every question given and provide 100% ironclad proof for my positions, and you would still be here prattling away saying I'm "avoiding discussion", "pasting articles and websites" (oooooh...not PASTING!), and "not proving my claims.""

What a horribly improbable hypothetical. Conversely (and more accurately), I could point out that I could provide 100% ironclad proof against your positions and you would dismiss it as jewish lies while continuing to paste articles from prisonplanet and rense. I also like how you used childish sarcasm in an attempt to defend avoidance of discussion, pasting in lieu of discussion, and your complete failure to prove anything.

Your accusations remind of another psychological phenomenon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Quote :

"Their objective is to prevent the facts, evidence and truth from being presented in the first place"

Such as accusing those who question you of persecution.

Quote :

"then if the truth is told, employ various tactics to distract from, suppress, or smear the truth"

Such as calling anyone who questions you a "troll" or "crank" and by calling any conflicting information "jewish lies" or "propaganda" or "a zionist hit piece".

Quote :

"I have, in fact, made a reasonable effort to respond to legitimate and serious counter-arguments and questions"

Where can I see evidence of this "reasonable effort"? Please remember that simply searching biblebelievers for a related article and then pasting it here does not qualify as a counter-argument.

Quote :

"Further, they are the type that are inquisitive and don't need someone to spoon feed them evidence and information."

Back on the high horse, I see. I'm fairly certain that your penchant for conspiracy theories stems from some basic inferiority complex that you picked up somewhere. You make a point to talk down to anyone who questions you and attempt to dismiss them as trolls because you hold the key to some secret knowledge (the lure of secret knowledge is also one of the key factors used to draw people into cults). All the while you've never once stopped to think about the fact that all of your opinions have been spoon fed to you from the same handful of web sites.

Quote :

"The process of coming to the truth on issues involves reading a wide varity of information/evidence, and then squaring that with your own personal observations, thinking logically, etc."

The wide variety qualifier that you threw out flies in the face of your own post history. Alex Jones and Jeff Rense don't constitute a wide variety. You live in a conspiracist wind tunnel and cast aside every single piece of legitimate evidence that may hurt your worldview.

[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

7/9/2007 2:23:37 PM

And now, an average day trying to debate with salisburyboy:

salisburyboy: the world is flat and the entire universe revolves around the earth!

sane person: i disagree, i believe that the world is spherical and that we rotate around the sun.

salisburyboy: nonsense! you disagree with me after i showed you an excerpt from a website with only two lines of original text?! how dare you! now i'm going to call you a troll or tell you that you're believing lies and avoid addressing the opinions you've presented to this rational discussion

7/9/2007 6:20:11 PM