there is no reason why this thread should have made it to page 2

7/18/2007 8:31:29 AM

Charlotte has no artistic soul. Name a nationally known band to come out of Charlotte in the last 10 years. I can name 5 from the Raleigh area without trying. They have a shitty visual arts scene, too. NoDa is Charlotte's attempt at an artistic pulse, but it's still not good enough.

7/18/2007 8:49:22 AM

oh god, no artistic soul. what is a city to do.

7/18/2007 9:18:10 AM

Quote :

"Charlotte has no artistic soul."

I do agree Charlotte is lacking in the culture department but i wouldn't go as far as to say they have no artistic soul. I've worked plenty in the theatres in Charlotte as well as knowing the museum system and they are far from "having no artisitic soul". I'd go as far to say Charlotte surpasses Raleigh in terms of theatre and museums.

I've also played with the Charlotte symphony and plenty of the rep/civic symphonies. In highschool because of Bank of America support my highschool got 40,000-50,000$ grants per year to do musicals uptown in the Blumenthal Performing arts center. They are among the few public magnet highschools on the east coast that can take advantage of such oppurtunities. Not to mention my highschool was the first in the United States to put on various musicals, (on the highschool level). Sweeny Todd was my favorite if any of you wolfwebbers are Stephen Sondheim fans.

I've lived in Charlotte all my life, and Raleigh these past 3 years, and i find Charlotte downtown far superior to Raleighs. I love Glenwood and parts of downtown Raleigh but it's too spread out into little sections. Despite downtown Charlotte having some yuppie bankers, there's always people everywhere and not to mention they have faaar more money for downtown development. Now what developers do with that money is a different story...

My GFs dad (Wagner and Murry architects) is currently designing a new museum for uptown Charlotte. David Wanger is corresponding with Swiss architect Mario Botta, a world renown architect in designing this new museum called the Bechtler Museum which holds a private collection. This will be only Bottas second work in the United States after the San Francisco momo. Last night i was actually helping my girlfriend finish up a model so Andreas Bechtler can pick where to put his 20 million dollars worth of art work. Dave Wagner also did the panthers stadium (he's credited with reenergizing stadium building throughout the NFL), the green, and half the other buildings uptown, and almost won the national Vietnam memorial competition for designing the vietnam memorial. Got 3rd.

Basically i'm trying to say that Charlotte is far from lacking in certain departments, ie museums, theatre, architecture (although they do have a trend of ripping everything old down and building new, which is sometimes a negative thing). Charlotte does need to work on public transportation, greenways, urban development, and should get a bigger music scene yes. But to say "Charlotte has no artistic soul" is disgracing so many artists who have lived in the area. And yes i've been to almost every major city in the United States, most of the top 40, so i realize Charlotte is no Chicago or Philly but it's also not some small southern city either. It's currently ranked number 7 in growth in the United States, so hopefully there's plenty more to come.

7/18/2007 10:15:48 AM

Quote :

"when speaking of "cities", Raleigh's downtown area is far better than Charlottes"

lolololol ahahahahahahahahahah roflroflroflrofl

Quote :

"Name a nationally known band to come out of Charlotte in the last 10 years"

so that goes back to 1997...well somebody like Anthony Hamilton has some decent national exposure lately...I don't guess Randy Travis or Firehouse are recent enough to classify as the last 10 years...you've probably never heard of Sunshine Anderson...KiCi and JoJo are probably pre-1997 mostly

so what nationally known bands have come out of Raleigh in the last 10 years?

7/18/2007 11:45:13 AM

^petey motherfuckin pablo

good charlotte for charlotte lol

Quote :

"It's not like we're comparing a real city like Chicago or Philly to Raleigh or Charlotte here..."

Get over yourself already. Everybody knows what the biggest cities are. That doesn't mean Ashe and Fayetteville aren't cities. Raleigh and Charlotte are both fairly large cities so stfu.

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 11:49 AM. Reason : ROFL "ART"]

7/18/2007 11:48:19 AM

^^ yeah i've heard of some of those bands. I find it funny people think downtown Raleigh has anything on downtown Charlotte. Not to say downtown Raleigh doesn't have great places, but there's just so many more people/places in downtown Charlotte. So in turn there's a lot more places to see and things to do.

^Yeah please, everyone knows what "big cities" are. Cities arn't black and white. Big or small. Ashevilles a great place, and it's fairly small. You can't really catagorize cities by calling them "a big city" or not.

Charlote is ranked 20th in the US for population and the US has a lot of cities. So if you defined "big city" i'm sure Charlotte would fall under that catagory. Whereas Raleigh is all the way down in spot 51 after Wichita, Kansas.

Whereas Charlotte is up with the big leagues like Baltimore, Boston, Seattle, Milwaukee, Denver, etc.

Hell Charlotte is even bigger than Boston, Seattle, Milwaukee, Denver, Las Vegas, Nashville, and plenty others. Even Atlanta. Of course that's based upon population within city limits of course. I had no idea Charlotte beat out those cities in population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

Check it out...

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 12:01 PM. Reason : .]

7/18/2007 12:00:32 PM

Quote :

"Whereas Charlotte is up with the big leagues like Baltimore, Boston, Seattle, Milwaukee, Denver, etc. "

Quote :

"Of course that's based upon population within city limits of course."

7/18/2007 12:18:29 PM

^exactly
^^you missed the boat.

boston is really a huge city but the city limits only include downtown. Hell, Boston College itself isn't even "in boston". charlottes city limits include every fucking thing.

raleigh is really about the same pop as charlotte. Probably a little small. it has more density it just doesn't have its borders expanded as wide. the population numbers are distorted. Theres probably 100k people that consider themselves living in raleigh but aren't counted because raleigh is a bit picky on its city limits. Drive around raleigh and you will see city limit signs all over the place even when you're nowhere near the outskirts of raleigh.

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 12:23 PM. Reason : oops]

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 12:24 PM. Reason : oops size=pop or size=size]

7/18/2007 12:23:15 PM

you really need to compare the metro areas of cities to get a feel for how well they relate to one another.

this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas

is a little more accurate as far as how different cities compare to one another as far as size and feel.

anyone thats been to Charlotte and cities like Baltimore, Boston, or Denver knows that they arent really the same as it may seem when comparing city line populations.



[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 12:28 PM. Reason : g]

7/18/2007 12:24:47 PM

Thats alot better but its pretty inaccurate how Raleigh is just Cary while cities like virginia beach include norfolk, newport news and chesapeke.

7/18/2007 12:29:42 PM

yeah, i guess you have to draw the line somewhere.

7/18/2007 12:32:08 PM

^^^^, ^^^ No i completely agree. City limits really don't determine what a city is. Boston is obviously a much larger "city" than Charlotte even though it has a smaller city populartion (within limits). I love Boston, try to get up there every chance i get.

Still if you compared metro areas Charlotte would still be up at 36, and Raleigh is still down at 51. So on any statistical list or anything I couldn't see how anyone would put Raleigh anywhere near Charlotte on any list.

^exactly

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 12:34 PM. Reason : .]

7/18/2007 12:33:39 PM

I have yet to meet a banker at a bar and I've been here for over a month

7/18/2007 6:10:10 PM

Quote :

"when speaking of "cities", Raleigh's downtown area is far better than Charlottes."

As i am mentioned before i grew up in charlotte but i would prefer living in Raleigh WAY over going back to Charlotte. I have many reasons for this, however, I think anyone who claims Raleigh has a better downtown then Charlotte is only fooling themselves. Raleigh has a lot of things I like better but a downtown life is not one of them. They got a fucking NFL stadium downtown and its walking distance to all the cool bars.

Also, contrary to what people keep saying the Charlotte metro area has a much larger population then the Raleigh-Durham metro area. Population does not make a great city. Even though Charlotte proper may have more people then Boston, Boston I am sure has a higher population density. As well as being much more cultured then Charlotte.

7/18/2007 7:50:13 PM

I am from Charlotte and am back here now again. And based on absolutely no scientific or statistical basis, I'd say Charlotte is "bigger." In Raleigh, the different areas seemed more defined from one another. Like Cary was somewhat separate from Raleigh, and Durham was definitely a separate city as well as Chapel Hill. Here in Charlotte, everything just kind of merges together and forms one big metro area.

Quote :

"^^ do they really consider gastonia a suburb of charlotte?? Gastonia is a bit of a drive down I85."

I live in Gastonia now and commute to downtown charlotte every day. Its really not that far, only takes me about 25 minutes in moderate traffic. It doesn't really feel like a suburb of charlotte. Not to mention that you pass quite a few miles of "not a whole lot" to get to Gastonia from Charlotte. Someday it may really be a suburb, but atm, I dont really think it is.

7/18/2007 8:04:28 PM

i'm not going to get into which city is better to live in/which downtown is better (i've never lived in charlotte) BUT i can think of maybe two or three shows i've ever been to in charlotte (or even wanted to go to) and i've been to countless shows in the triangle. i think the music (at least for stuff i like) is far better here than charlotte.

7/18/2007 9:23:53 PM

Charlotte fucking sucks. Everybody knows it. I'm tired of people from Charlotte talking about how much bigger than Raleigh it is...they want me to question it so they can bust out some numbers. Nobody cares how big Charlotte is.

The fact is that the Triangle is a much more desirable place to live. It's pretty fucking vanilla, but that's why we have Durham, Chapel Hill, and Carrboro, and the state's best universities, etc, etc, etc...

Quote :

"And yes i've been to almost every major city in the United States, most of the top 40, so i realize Charlotte is no Chicago or Philly but it's also not some small southern city either."

On the topic of "artistic soul," Charlotte isn't even an Asheville.

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 9:45 PM. Reason : sss]

7/18/2007 9:43:22 PM

I worked near Charlotte once summer in college and spent a lot of time there on weekends and stuff. IMO it sucks. Raleigh might not be as "big", but Charlotte is just a sprawling, hot shithole. Sure the "uptown" is nice, but that hardly defines what makes living somewhere great (unless you just spend all of your time in bars).

As has been said Raleigh's art and music scenes far surpass Charlotte's. I guess what's the point in arguing over this though, some people like Raleigh, some Charlotte. But we all know that Raleigh is better...

7/19/2007 10:09:52 AM

It seems the majority of people in this thread thought Charlotte was better. Although i'm glad we finally got some people on the Raleigh side.

Don't get me wrong, i hate Charlotte sprawl, but that's why i live in Plaza Midwood. I don't have to deal with rush hour, 485, 85, or 77. I can get almost anywhere in town from a central location in a fair amount of time.

My commute to work is 2 minutes. It seems to me the biggest reason people complain about Charlotte is because they live in the suburbs or have a long commute. I agree that sucks, but what happened to the age old idea of working/living/partying close to home? I live close to everything i do. Takes me just as long to get to UNCC (10 minutes) as it does to get to south park (10 minutes).

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who lives in Plaza Midwood, Myers Park, Elizabeth, Dilworth, etc etc who complains about sprawl. (Unless they commute to the suburbs to work? Maybe?)

7/19/2007 10:33:11 AM

the only things the triangle has on charlotte IMO are:

- NC State
- The Cats Cradle

thats about it...raleigh is a kind of a POS town...if it didnt have State it would REALLY suck

and i'm sorry for the people who dislike charlotte...its not my fault you suck at finding something interesting to do

also, contrary to some people's beliefs, New York and Chicago are not the only two cities in the US that are technically "cities"...yes everybody fucking knows they are bigger cities than Charlotte and Raleigh

7/19/2007 10:51:33 AM

^Thank you. Yeah if Raleigh wasn't the capital, didn't have state, then it wouldn't have terribly much compared to Charlotte.

Quote :

"and i'm sorry for the people who dislike charlotte...its not my fault you suck at finding something interesting to do"

Pretty much explains it.

7/19/2007 11:00:55 AM

if charlotte didnt have the panthers, buildings, or people then it wouldnt have terribly much compared to raleigh

7/19/2007 11:16:11 AM

charlotte would suck a huge black dick if i didn't live in the uptown area - i would rather live in johnston county than live in fucking ballantyne or some other fucked up suburb where i had to drive 45 min each way to work. but if you live in the uptown area, things are more accessible than in downtown raleigh, particularly with 277 and I77 going right through the city. Downtown Raleigh doesn't have anything like that to move people in and out of center city quickly.

The light rail project has been and currently is a disaster but at least it demonstrates a desire for progression, albiet a fucked up one

7/19/2007 11:21:08 AM

For real, if Charlotte didn't have it's downtown it would suck!!! If you didn't have your arms you would suck at basketball.

Come on people, that's a horrible argument. Raleigh is what it is in part because of NCSU. Charlotte is what it is in part because of whatever the hell Charlotte claims.

7/19/2007 11:21:55 AM

you know there are more places in charlotte besides downtown and ballantyne

i dont even consider ballantyne charlotte (even though it is in charlotte)

7/19/2007 11:22:26 AM

Quote :

"For real, if Charlotte didn't have it's downtown it would suck!!! If you didn't have your arms you would suck at basketball. Come on people, that's a horrible argument. Raleigh is what it is in part because of NCSU. Charlotte is what it is in part because of whatever the hell Charlotte claims. "

exactly my point.

7/19/2007 11:25:09 AM

Quote :

"raleigh is a kind of a POS town...if it didnt have State it would REALLY suck"

7/19/2007 11:28:24 AM

i've lived in both cities.

grew up in charlotte. been in raleigh for the past 6 years almost. raleigh still blows

7/19/2007 11:42:21 AM

yeah i lived in raleigh for about 5 years and have lived in charlotte longer than that... i would hope the people saying one city or another city sucks have at least lived there for a couple months

7/19/2007 11:57:41 AM

Quote :

"charlotte would suck a huge black dick if i didn't live in the uptown area -"

Exactly. People who complain about Charlotte live in the suburbs or ballantyne because they are stupid and work far from where they live. Of course commuting 1-2 hours a day would piss anyone off. That's why i live in the city and have a 2 minute commute. As well as being able to get pretty much anywhere in the central city in about 10-15 minutes.

downtown: 5 minutes
uncc:10-15
southpark 10-15
noda:5-10.
Hell i can get to davidson in 15-20 minutes, or carowinds in 15-20.
Living in the city beats out any suburb etc. You can get everywhere, really fast.

Rush hour adds 5-10 minutes to each one of the above, but i avoid it. Again sucks for people who live in the suburbs.

7/19/2007 12:11:23 PM

i live off selwyn (not downtown) and charlotte does not suck a huge black dick

7/19/2007 12:25:03 PM

too much angst

7/19/2007 12:32:48 PM

^^Sorry i meant in the Charlotte area, not specifically downtown. Selwyn would be considered not far from downtown. Just take providence in. I was agreeing Charlotte would suck if you lived in like Matthews, Minthill, Gastonia, Ballantyne, Huntersville, etc because of the commute, and travel time to get places within the city.

7/19/2007 12:35:55 PM

no doubt and i agree...my commute is about 15 minutes but i'm good

and i'll probably always like charlotte more than raleigh just cause i'm from charlotte and grew up in charlotte, even though i do like raleigh

7/19/2007 2:28:56 PM

But Raleigh still has the population of NYC circa 1845.

7/19/2007 3:05:59 PM

raleigh needs to get some skyscrapers if it wants to LOOK as big as charlotte

(pauses a moment for the NYC/LA/Chicago/etc people to tell me how Charlotte has no skyline)

there are a bunch of skyscrapers (40 plus stories) going up in Charlotte in the next 5-10 years...skyline is gonna be fairly impressive around 2015

7/19/2007 3:08:46 PM

^yeah no kidding. They just keep building shit uptown. Skyline is going to look great in 10-15 years. Raleigh's skyline is a joke compared to Charlottes. Buildings are so short in Raleigh you get behind a 2 story building and you can't see the skyline. In Charlotte you can't really avoid them. Not to mention all the buildings in Raleigh look old and outdated. Don't get me wrong, SOME old buildings are nice, but only when they have architectural significance or a long history.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 3:13 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 3:10:36 PM

Does raleigh even have the necessary infrastructure downtown for that kind of density?

With the exception of Dawson, McDowell, and a few others, it seems like all of the downtown roads are 2 lane.

7/19/2007 3:12:11 PM

^doubt it. They'd have to do some massive rethinking of their transportation infrastructure. Charlotte is, and has been able to deal with it's massive downtown. Simply walk around downtown Charlotte and there's crazy amounts of people compared to downtown Raleigh. Mostly to do with accesssibility and parking options, and the fact there's much much more people in downtown Charlotte. It'll be nice once they get all those skybridges back up around College St in Charlotte, once those new buildings get built.

7/19/2007 3:17:38 PM

I live off on Boylan downtown and I give it 5 years max before traffic is a nightmare.

It already is on any night during the weekend.

7/19/2007 3:23:17 PM

^Yup. That's why i love Charlotte's one-way, no turn streets. Makes traffic so much smoother at rushhour. Plus it's more like a big city.

7/19/2007 3:30:01 PM

Whatever, dude. Raleigh was smart enough to turn their wide one way streets into narrow two way streets.

7/19/2007 3:45:21 PM

You're right. It's a weird argument. If you study road development they argue it all the time.

http://ti.org/vaupdate30.html

One-way grids and one-way couplets are more traditional and allow cars to travel faster. They pollute less (cars move faster, and don't stop/start as much), and cause less crahses, not to mention idiots who drive drunk have less to think about.

The only reason cities convert streets to 2-way is to "slow down" traffic and allow for better pedestrian friendly access. As that article said in the 70's air pollution was an issue so many 2-way streets were converted to 1-way. It's a little harder if you're new to the city, but once figured out, it's quicker, safer, and more efficient.

7/19/2007 4:06:43 PM

Wiki says Stockholm has a pop density ~10,000

7/19/2007 4:55:33 PM

I think charlotte is better because it has taller buildings, more people, and I can always get the crack i need from the drug dealers around eastway.


Raleigh>>>Charlotte ; except for seeing family or a panthers game i hate going back to charlotte.

the only thing charlotte has going for it is 1.) the panthers 2.) a downtown bar scene.

Raleigh is better then charlotte in everything else imho, and their is an increase diversity of activities if you include durham and chapel hill all less then an hour away. Not to mention i can hop on 40 and be at the beach in <2 hours. even the malls are better. If you are going to count concord mills then Southpoint is included too which is far more upscale and a lot nicer.

i guess if you want to be a douchebag banker charlotte is better.



[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 6:21 PM. Reason : l]

7/19/2007 6:19:03 PM

Quote :

"One-way grids and one-way couplets are more traditional and allow cars to travel faster"

i agree one-way grids are great. they also allow synchronization of traffic lights a lot easier. Coming south on Capital BLVD when it turns into 1-way Dawson St. i can make it all the way thru downtown in 3 mins if i catch the lights on time

7/19/2007 6:26:38 PM

^^^^ yeah, that was complete sarcasm

yay one way streets

7/19/2007 6:34:33 PM

^^Exactly

Are you actually from Matthews? This would explain the Charlotte hate. I'm assuming you live/lived closer to town in Raleigh? It's hard to compare Charlotte/Raleigh if you lived in Matthews. But then again i have no idea because i've lived in Plaza Midwood my whole life.

Going to college in a town really changes someones opinion of thier hometown. I like both, and now that i think about it, it's really hard to say which one i like better. I think it disgraces each city by trying to compare them. It just brings out the sucky parts of each city. They both have thier own good qualities, and you could argue either way.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 6:35 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 6:35:02 PM

Quote :

"Are you actually from Matthews? This would explain the Charlotte hate. I'm assuming you live/lived closer to town in Raleigh?"

yeah about 1 miles to the union county border. it sucked having to drive 15 min to go anywhere

7/19/2007 6:41:16 PM