Most of the illegal drugs today were at one point legal, I am well aware of that fact.

And yes, the US required farmers to grow hemp. Not so everyone could go smoke, but because it had so many uses (uniforms, canvas, sails, rope, etc) I am not aware of other uses of heroin, cocaine, etc.

8/16/2007 3:37:57 PM

^Yeah you're right. Hemp is a different issue. But the main reason why hemp is illegal in the United States is because all the tobacco/cotton lobyists in the government won't let it happen. There's not a single reason why farmers shouldn't grow hemp. I think there was a thread about farmers sueing the DEA for not letting them grow hemp.

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It's silly. Of course the "politically correct" answer from the government is that hemp is illegal because it's in the same family as marijuana. Everyone knows that's bs, it's impossible to "get high" off hemp. Or atleast you'd have to smoke a shit ton of it to get high.

^heroin and cocaine both have medical applications. I guess they don't really have uses in agriculture like hemp though.

[Edited on August 16, 2007 at 3:55 PM. Reason : ..]

8/16/2007 3:41:30 PM

"The only people who don't win are the pseudo-anarchists who want us to legalize everything because, like, police state and shit, man."

hahah

8/16/2007 3:41:44 PM

^^ I am all for legalization of growing hemp, it is insanely practical and like you said, you could smoke an a couple lbs of it and have nothing but a sore throat. Hemp food is tasty.

Are the medical uses of heroin and cocaine specific to those two compounds or do we have an FDA approved drug out already that can be used for what heroin and cocaine would treat.


My main issue is legalization, is that America has no self control. Look at the obesity rates right now, do we honestly need more Americans getting the munchies and stopping at McDonalds. It a perfect society, where people could legitimately use drugs for pure recreational uses and not let it affect their lives, sure lets legalize drugs. I don't doubt there are people out there who could use drugs and not let it affect their lives at all. However, most people can't, these are the same people who overindulge in alcohol, fast food, tobacco etc.

8/16/2007 4:04:07 PM

^so why should alcohol be legal? It's far more deadly than marijuana, and causes countless deaths each year from accidents and damage to the body.

Oh and you RARELY find obese people who smoke pot, i don't know why that is. Most of the people i know who use marijuana are successful people in society (and pretty fit).

I'm agreeing with you, people DO abuse drugs. But in my opinion it's easier to abuse alcohol than marijuana. I also completely agree that people shouldn't abuse drugs, but there's always going to be a certain population of people who abuse them, whether they're illegal or not.

Legalizing marijuana probably isn't going to make MORE people abuse it. The people who are abusing it, probably already use it. Everything should be done in moderation. There's plenty of people who live great successful lives and drink a little bit (most people who drink), and there's also plenty of people who live great successful lives and smoke a little bit (most people who smoke).

In conclusion the government shouldn't be the one telling you you can't use a drug because there's the possibility you may abuse it. If that were the case most prescription drugs, alcohol, and tobacco would be illegal. So people should make that choice on thier own.

[Edited on August 16, 2007 at 4:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2007 4:12:25 PM

Quote :

"That assumes that the implementation of health care and insurance stays the same."

There isn't a positive way it could change that would avoid either:

1) Non-users paying to fix problems caused by users, or

2) Users having difficulty finding employment because of the interaction between their use and insurance

Quote :

"whac-a-mole"

Maybe, to an extent. But the effect of constantly disrupting the networks that funnel drugs into the country is still brought about through this method. It's also hard to say how futile reducing their numbers would be, since our enforcement has always been lachsadaysical (sp? I just wanted to use that word) at best, and the laws being enforced are pretty half-ass as well. If we were to really apply the national will -- and I don't think it would be terribly hard to cultivate that -- I'm not sure I'm ready to accept that it's a foregone conclusion that we would be unable to put a really sizeable dent in the number and organization of drug dealers.

Quote :

"actually, crack-heads are known for that. It's happened to me."

Sorry, you're right. Crack was a bad example. Still, I'm willing to bet that the majority of drug transactions don't come about as a result of someone coming up and asking, "Who wants some?"

Quote :

"..because the economy is more important than liberty."

I never implied any such thing. Rather I pointed out that in this society we have, a drug dealer is a drain on society. Their "right" to use drugs inevitably infringes on others' rights as a result. Either the non-users are having their property taken excessively by hospitals who have to treat uninsured OD patients, or insurance companies compensating for the disproportionately bad medical problems of users, or the government to provide protection against broke drug addicts trying to steal money when otherwise they'd have fucking jobs and be paying taxes instead of taking from them.

Now I'm going to go ahead and ask you to create a separate thread if you want to talk about some completely different society where healthcare and government and everything else relevant all function in a manner that in no way resembles their current operations.

Quote :

"I agree i was about to say "I realize the prohibition is a silly example", but in actuality marijuana was legal in the US up until the early 1900's too."

Two important points here: Even when marijuana popularity really took off in the 60's, there were several generations separating that time from its prohibition. The people who remembered being able to smoke it legally were thin on the ground. Alcohol's prohibition and re-legalization all took place within the course of a generation. In short, by now we're accustomed to pot being illegal, but alcohol's criminality wasn't around long enough for society to really get used to it.

Secondly, alcohol has been ingrained heavily into Western Civilization from the very beginning. Actually, that might be better put as "world civilization," as the oldest evidence of beer was found in China and I've heard it suggested that the discovery of brewing and fermentation might have been major impetuses in creating the first permanent settlements and cities (though I'm not sure I buy that last). Booze is the Blood of Christ according to the largest Christian denominations. Brewers were among the most important American Revolutionaries. A number of great world leaders were nothing if not alcoholic.

Marijuana, on the other hand, might have been in western culture but it has never been a fundamental part of it, if you take my meaning. Illegalizing marijuana wasn't a slap in the face to some huge segment of the population like prohibition was.

8/16/2007 4:37:59 PM

Quote :

"there were several generations separating that time from its prohibition"

~30 years (1937)

8/16/2007 4:43:25 PM

What constitutes a "generation"?

8/16/2007 4:50:52 PM

I figure about 20-25 years...ie an age where people start having kids of their own, but I dunno

just throwing out the 1937 for reference since thats when marijuana was made illegal

8/16/2007 4:54:09 PM

Quote :

"If that were the case most prescription drugs, alcohol, and tobacco would be illegal. So people should make that choice on thier own."

i dont know about alcohol or tabacky, but prescription drugs are most certainly illegal to take if not done so under the proper conditions (as well they should be).

for the record, while im not for legalizing "soft" drugs, i can at least understand the argument. things like heroin, however, have no real benefit other than saying we are more free.

8/16/2007 6:45:41 PM

Quote :

""If that were the case most prescription drugs, alcohol, and tobacco would be illegal. So people should make that choice on thier own.""

Prescription Drugs are illegal unless prescribed, Prescriptions exist for a reason to prevent dependence and for the safety of the user.

As stated before, Alcohol and Tobacco have been pretty much ingrained into American society. America would not be what it is today without tobacco.

8/16/2007 8:13:09 PM

My bad on the "several generations" thing. I thought I recalled from the History Channel that pot was made illegal sooner than '37.

Still and all, the parents of the baby boomers (and resurgent pot smokers) would have been pretty young in 1937, young enough to have extremely limited or perhaps no experience with marijuana at all. Meaning that there was at least a cushion of an entire generation of people between them and prohibition.

8/16/2007 8:50:58 PM