Chance, what are you smoking? E85 is up to 85% ETHANOL. I said 15% Ethanol did not require any modifications. 85% Ethanol requires modification to keep it from crapping out.

As such, until the Ethanol mixture exceeds 15% none of the network effects you mention are necessary. As such, if producing Ethanol reaped a $1+ profit per gallon they would be falling all over themselves to produce it. Since they are not I must conclude the cost of producing Cellulitic ethanol far exceeds $1.25 a gallon.

Now, I know producing cane Ethanol costs about that much in South America, which is maybe what was being quoted, but the 100% tarriff on imported Ethanol would make that $2.50 a gallon, not a viable business model.

11/6/2007 10:51:05 AM

The new cellulitic ethanol plant that is being build in Georgia will produce ethanol for $1.25. That is fact. Now quit making up reasons against it.

11/6/2007 10:57:55 AM

^^ shit, I'm an idiot


* hangs head in shame *

11/6/2007 11:04:57 AM

^^do you have a link to information on that plant? I'm curious.

[Edited on November 6, 2007 at 11:06 AM. Reason : ]

11/6/2007 11:05:14 AM

Google certainly turns up nothing.

11/6/2007 11:13:11 AM

Quote :

"not true. ethanol does release CO2 when it burns, but the corn gets it's CO2 from the atmosphere. Therefore, it is fairly carbon neutral. (of course there are things like transportation, production, etc. that use fossil fuels, but it is still a MAJOR reduction in net atmospheric carbon over fossil fuels)"

biofuels churn out way more NOx than gasoline does, which would have different impacts on dfferent areas of the country.

there was a big study about this recently that concluded the introduction of biofuels (ethanol and biodiesel primarily) would have no net positive impact on our micro-evironments.

THIS IS ALL A FUCKING SHAM. It's yet another way for the government to prop an industry that hasn't been economically viable for the better part of a century.

11/6/2007 11:35:39 AM

it is definitely NOT a sham.
it's not a miracle either.

11/6/2007 11:46:33 AM

Man, some links supporting your conspiracy theories would be great.

11/6/2007 11:49:54 AM

Quote :

"The new cellulitic ethanol plant that is being build in Georgia will produce ethanol for $1.25. That is fact."

so thats the production cost...what would it sell for to consumers? also any idea how many miles/gallon you can get from ethanol? i know its less than gasoline but i dont know how much less

11/6/2007 11:57:20 AM

If it is true that the final production costs including inputs are $1.25 per gallon then the long term price will be little more than $1.25 plus capital return.

But nuttysmaky evidently expects us to take his word that the production costs are $1.25 when everyone else here has heard nothing of the sort and many good reasons to doubt it.

11/6/2007 1:41:44 PM

also isn't part of the ethanol "refining" process to add a small amount of gasoline as some sort of preventative measure so people don't drink it? in which case there would be some small percentage of good old coal burning co2 emissions

11/6/2007 2:13:29 PM

Quote :

"Man, some links supporting your conspiracy theories would be great."

You haven't provided shit either.

But here are two links:

"Biomass for biofuel isn't worth it" http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html

"Impact Analysis: Life Cycle Analysis of Biofuels shows mixed results" http://impact_analysis.blogspot.com/2006/07/life-cycle-analysis-of-biofuels-shows.html

Some points from the Study (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0604600103v1)

Quote :

"The study caution that neither biofuel can come close to meeting the growing demand for alternatives to petroleum. Dedicating all current U.S. corn and soybean production to biofuels would meet only 12 percent of gasoline demand and 6 percent of diesel demand."

There you go. Dead in the water.

Quote :

"Industrial agriculture depends on extensive inputs of water and fossil fuels, the latter for machinery, fertilizer and pesticides. The fossil fuels and, when obtained from groundwater, the water are nonrenewable resources. Surface runoff containing pesticides and fertilizers produce significant ecological impacts. Pesticides may be in part responsible for observed reproductive and development adverse effects in many species, particularly amphibians. Excessive nutrient inputs from fertilizer runoff into the Mississippi River is implicated in a “dead zone” in the Gulf of Mexico, caused by excessive algal blooms that produce hypoxia. The practice of monoculture threatens biodiversity and promotes continued pesticide as insects and plant diseases adapt to resistant crop species. Mechanical tillage, wasteful irrigation and fertilizer use promote soil erosion and loss of soil fertility."

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2002/110p445-456horrigan/horrigan-full.html


Once again my point stands. It's not a viable market alternative. At BEST it's a supplement to our fossil fuels. Spending BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars every year on this shit is a complete waste of fucking money. It would be MUCH better spent on REAL alternative energy development, like nano-solar, tidal, wind, and nuclear.

But then, if we dont keep pouring billions into the corn industry like we have for the past half century, it will collapse almost overnight.

11/7/2007 4:17:13 AM

i think anyone with a brain knows this isnt any kind of real solution

but this is what i've always wondered:



why cant we genetically modify this to have like 6 ears of corn instead of 1?

i wonder this all the time and i get sad because its not a reality

11/7/2007 4:19:58 AM

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE GET THIS MOTHERFUCKER THE HELL OUT OF SOAP BOX?

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, I CAN'T CLICK ON A THREAD IN THIS SECTION

AND NOT SEE IT BEING SPAMMED BY SOME RETARDED RAMBLING OFF-TOPIC COMMENT

THIS IS NOT CHIT CHAT

THIS IS NOT AIM

THIS IS NOT LOL ROFL WTFBBQ SHIT THAT YOU SPIT IN PMs TO GIRLS THAT ARE NO DOUBT DISGUSTED BY YOU

JUST STAY THE FUCK OUT OF TSB FOREVER

BECAUSE THAT IS HOW LONG IT IS GOING TO TAKE YOU TO ACQUIRE ANY SEMBLANCE OF A BRAIN

NEEDED TO MAKE VALUABLE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS SECTION

11/7/2007 7:05:53 AM

^ I agree with Chance--and hell just froze over.

11/7/2007 7:45:13 AM

^^lol omg

that should be a suspendable offense

11/7/2007 5:00:13 PM