Quote :

"but if some pagans started telling me I'd go to black mushroom forest land "

Well last time i checked Pagan groups don't lobby state and federal governments to sway politicians against issues that they consider immoral or unchristian.


Back to treetwista; you are absolutely right. Not nearly the number of evangelical hard-core conservative christians go around blowing themselves up here as the radical Islamic terrorists in the middle east. Instead we have the highest murder rate in the developed world with citizens shooting each other committing crimes , gang violence, or over a heated dispute. We also have kids that go to school and blow away 40 of their classmates before blowing themselves away.

I am glad we are so much more civilized over here.

10/4/2007 9:02:50 PM

TwistaOwned...again.

10/4/2007 9:07:01 PM

The court case is the most alarming to me.

Government is force. And no one should be using the gov't to get everyone to act according to your religious beliefs. Simple as that.

I didn't read any stories of schools cancelling their Martin Luther King Jr. activities for fear of "leaving out anyone."

10/4/2007 10:01:22 PM

Quote :

"392 damn, I must watch to much tv"

apparently, since you don't know the difference between too and to.

Quote :

"How, on one hand, can Christians complain that secularists are trying to destroy Christmas...when they are trying to get people to stop celebrating Halloween?"

people don't go around on Christmas demanding candy from strangers or they egg your house.

[Edited on October 4, 2007 at 10:16 PM. Reason : .]

10/4/2007 10:16:07 PM

Quote :

"We also have kids that go to school and blow away 40 of their classmates before blowing themselves away. "

yeah that happens all the time

10/4/2007 11:12:40 PM

Quote :

"Well last time i checked Pagan groups don't lobby state and federal governments to sway politicians against issues that they consider immoral or unchristian."

Wow, then they are the only special interest group in America that isn't on the ball.

10/5/2007 9:53:37 AM

I think we as Christians can get a little carried away with our legalism. For example, Christians have nothing against a Christmas tree, which is actually a pagan tradition. We fail to see a lot of times that what our hearts desire the most is what we worship. Jesus said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

It's not what we partake of that makes us unspiritual. It's what comes out of us that makes us unspiritual. It's our actions that make us unspiritual. Wearing a costume and eating candy does not make you unspiritual. (edit: This is not to say, you can consume and partake of anything you want... be careful not to over generalize this statement)

Secondly, we as Christians can associate the celebration of traditions to religious practices. On the contrary. Tradition should have very little to do with religion. A tradition is an occasional (once a year) event. Our faith has to be a daily event. Many Christians don't see it that way. In fact, many Christians I know practice it exactly the opposite. They go to church, read their bibles, or pray occasionally yet they practice different traditions almost daily. Hence why our "Christian nation", doesn't look so "Christiany" at times.

Ghandi once said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

[Edited on October 5, 2007 at 9:59 AM. Reason : clearing things up]

10/5/2007 9:54:45 AM

^ Exactly Christmas was a adapted from a fucking pagan holiday that celebrated the winter solstice. I would like to see Billy Graham come on stage and admit to that one. I am glad the Christian leaders in the early days of the church were smarter then the loonies they have had representing them during the last 1000 years.

10/5/2007 10:05:10 AM

Quote :

"too and to"

typo, my friend

I'll give you $100 for every other time you can find I've done that

go ahead and try

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_search.aspx?type=posts&username=392

Quote :

"black mushroom forest land"

I wanna go!

that sound fun!

10/5/2007 10:23:44 AM

From '04 Wash. Post article regarding a school superintendent who banned any Halloween celebration in his schools:

Quote :

"Puyallup Superintendent Apostle respectfully disagrees. He said that while he personally enjoys Halloween -- his home has pumpkins, and he plans to takes his two daughters trick-or-treating -- the educational demands and religious sensitivities of modern America make his ban necessary. "Things are not like they used to be," Apostle said. "We have reached a time in our society when activities that make some children uncomfortable -- that exclude some children because of faith, values or culture -- need to be scheduled outside the school day." "

Little of value would ever get accomplished if schools remove everything that might "exclude some children becasue of faith, values or culture". In every area that schools teach, you can find some parent who will be offended by something..science, history, language, social studies, even math.

Another good argument for getting rid of gov't schools and letting the free market do its magic.

10/5/2007 10:38:25 AM

^

10/5/2007 5:05:52 PM

^^ Excellent we'd have a bunch of ignorant fucks run around b.c they do not feel that themselves or their kids need to have schooling. Education is one of the things b.c of economies of scale and social value that I believe should receive funding. Kinda like highways.



[Edited on October 5, 2007 at 5:45 PM. Reason : l]

10/5/2007 5:44:12 PM

^like I've said earlier

government providing education is not the same as government ensuring education

it's not like our country would let kids run around dumb

well, not any more than public schools do, anyway



private school vouchers, as needed, ftw

10/5/2007 8:16:31 PM

Quote :

"economies of scale and social value that I believe should receive funding"

In order to get use of these economies of scales, schools are forced to dumb down everything to the lowest mental denominator. Smarter kids get bored and teachers start breaking out the ritalin.

Gov't tries to lump everyone together as much as possible, the free market will respond to specific educational desires as they pop up. Let parents shop the market and find the school that suits their child's needs.

10/6/2007 12:28:05 AM

Quote :

"Another good argument for getting rid of gov't schools and letting the free market do its magic."

yeah, magic.

but seriously, it's just like when you were a kid and you asked to buy some item, at least for me the response was "you can buy that when you have your own money", in other words since my parents were taking care of me they were also taking care what I did with my $$$.

When the government provides education it makes the government are parents in some sense, then it is no surprise that we can't have our education the way we want it. Why? Because our government is run by everybody all at once, so if anybody has a problem there is some chance they can complain and ruin it for everybody.

If we paid for our own education, or at least decided by ourselves where the voucher $$'s went, then we could avoid this problem.

10/6/2007 1:10:50 PM

I could see a system where all schools were privatized competing for parents choices. The government local/state/fed would still collect taxes for education but would then distribute the money to all parents with eligible kids in the form of a voucher. Parents could then apply and choose the school of their choice. Competition among school would create a better education system independent of gov't bureaucracy. School could also provide more specialty education to attune to the skills and goals of the students. All primary would be similar; but in the secondary you could have a greater depth of schools teaching vocational skills; college prep skills; math & sciences; etc.

Too bad this would never happen though b.c it would take such a huge overhaul of assets and policy.

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 1:19 PM. Reason : l]

10/6/2007 1:18:47 PM

^but you'll also run into zoning problems, transportation, over crowding etc.

If a bunch of 'smart' kids all want to go to a certain school but they're all spread out across a county then busing would become difficult. Some of these kids might be from humble backgrounds so alternate transportation would be difficult for them to come by. It would seem impossible for the school to provide transportation for each one of these kids.

thats just 1 of many scenarios. It is a great idea though, just difficult to not run into road blocks.

10/6/2007 1:58:32 PM

Quote :

"The government local/state/fed would still collect taxes for education but would then distribute the money to all parents with eligible kids in the form of a voucher."

I'm Ok with that idea. It's definitely a move in the right direction.

Quote :

"alternate transportation would be difficult for them to come by. It would seem impossible for the school to provide transportation for each one of these kids."

If a "Smart Kid" school is getting over-crowded, that's a message to the market to bring in some competition. Some enterprising person might start another "Smart Kid" school or maybe a string of them. An enterprising school bus company might figure out the logistics profitably.

With parents walking around with these lucrative vouchers, you can bet the market will respond.

10/6/2007 10:36:39 PM

How horrible, smart kids going to school together. That never happens right now, oh wait it does just only for those who have extra $$ to send their kids to competitive prep schools. If you view this as a problem, it is not one of the voucher system, it is one of capitalism and the divide of classes and resources.

Even the USSR has enough sense to run the education system in a way which was anything but equal for all. They had a staggered specialized system which gave the truly gifted more of a challenge. There is no reason that helping the best become better has to hurt the stupid students. I would argue if anything mixing gifted students in with the general uninterested population has the tendency to help no one, at least that is what I have observed anecdotally in my limited experience.

10/6/2007 11:01:13 PM

Quote :

"How horrible, smart kids going to school together. That never happens right now, oh wait it does just only for those who have extra $$ to send their kids to competitive prep schools"

What is the problem with all the smart kids going to the same school. According to my plan all parents would get teh same $$ to send their kids to school regardless of socioeconomic status.

Maybe Lil Tim will learn more since lil Billy who doesn't give a fuck and acts as a class distraction is not present.

10/7/2007 6:43:49 PM