Quote :

"neglected to notify its managers"

they didnt need to notify the assistant manager since she was in on it

also some pretty shitty law enforcement when the caller has been getting away with this 68 times over 10 years

10/6/2007 11:47:37 AM

Quote :

"I now know the company had been warned before hand and neglected to notify its managers. Case closed. "

Do you know how many McDonald's there are? And how many managers each of them has? And the turnover rate for the managers? This is a slippery slope. how long do you continue to inform your managers of this stuff? Do you have to retrain thousands of managers every time someone gets a prank call? What if this particular case had happened at Taco Bell instead of McDs? Is McDonalds to blame then, because they didn't inform all other fast food restaurants of this problem? What if Taco Bell and McDonalds were owned by the same parent company (they're not, but Taco Bell, KFC and Pizza Hut are)? Is it the parent company's responsibility to inform all of its subsidiaries?

10/6/2007 11:55:15 AM

Quote :

"BUT THE FUCKING MANAGER GETS $1.1 MILLION!?!?"

She claims that she fell victim because McDonald's failed to notify her of the prank phone calls.

Quote :

"Restaurant Shift Turns Into Nightmare An Extra Shift at McDonald's Becomes a Terrifying Interrogation From Primetime Nov. 10, 2005 Louise Ogborn was always willing to take on extra shifts at McDonald's in Mount Washington, Ky. Ogborn's mother had health problems and had recently lost her job, so the 18-year-old did whatever she could to help make ends meet. On April 9, 2004, Ogborn offered to work through the restaurant's evening rush, trying to be helpful and make a few extra dollars. "I was just going to eat and then clock back in and help until somebody else came along that could help," she said. But Ogborn couldn't have known that her noble gesture would turn into a terrifying ordeal that she says will haunt her for the rest of her life. A Startling Accusation Ogborn was called into assistant manager Donna Summers' cramped office and told that Summers was on the telephone with a police officer. "She said, 'Here she is. This is the girl you described,'" said Ogborn. "She told me to shut the door." Summers told Ogborn that the officer on the phone had their store manager on the other line and that he had described her and accused her of stealing a purse from a customer. "I was like, 'Donna, I've never done anything wrong,'" Ogborn said. "I could never steal -- I could never do anything like that. I don't have it in me." But inside the back office, which had now become an "interrogation room," Ogborn's protests fell on deaf ears. "She said, 'Well, they said it was a little girl that looked like you in a McDonald's uniform, so it had to be you.'" It was Ogborn's word against the accusation of a man claiming to be a cop, and she was given a choice: submit to a search or be escorted to the police station. Listening to 'the Voice' Ogborn was told to empty her pockets and surrender her car keys and cell phone, which she did. Then the caller demanded that Summers have Ogborn remove her clothes -- even her underwear -- leaving her with just a small, dirty apron to cover her naked body. Summers says she never second-guessed what she was being asked to do, as she firmly believed the person she was talking to was a police officer. Ogborn says she trusted her manager to do what was right. Because it was a busy Friday night, Summers had to leave the office to check on the restaurant. The man on the phone demanded that another employee be left to watch Ogborn until the police arrived and Summers chose 27-year-old Jason Bradley. "He [Bradley] takes the phone and they're telling him to have me do certain things and drop the apron," she said. "He wouldn't have any part of it." Bradley walked out in disgust, leaving Summers with no one to watch Ogborn. Then the caller made an odd request, asking Summers to call her fiancé to have him watch the girl. Summers says she did as she was told. "I honestly thought he was a police officer and what I was doing was the right thing," said Summers. "I thought I was doing what I was supposed to be doing." Surveillance video shows Ogborn broke down in tears. Two Hours of Torment Within fifteen minutes, Summers' fiancé, Walter Nix, entered the office where Ogborn tugged at the small apron that barely covered her top and exposed her legs up to her buttocks. Again, Summers says she didn't question the caller and completely trusted her fiancé to be left alone with the girl. Ogborn says she wanted to run, but that it would have been too humiliating to run through the restaurant naked. Nix, a 43-year-old exterminator, began following the caller's commands, ordering Ogborn to drop her apron, bend over and stand on a chair. Then -- as ridiculous as it sounds -- he told her to do jumping jacks to shake loose anything she might be hiding. Ogborn says that was just the beginning of two more hours of torment. The demands became more and more bizarre. When Ogborn says that when she failed to address Nix as "sir," the caller tells him to hit her violently on the buttocks over and over. At one point on the video, Ogborn was "spanked" for almost 10 full minutes. "He told me I was asking too many questions, so he was told to hit me," she said. "I just said, 'Please don't do this.'" By the end, red welts could be seen on the woman's body. During it all, Summers periodically came back to the office, and each time, Nix threw the apron at Ogborn, telling her to stay quiet. "I begged her every time she came in the room," Ogborn said. "'Get me out of here. Please get me out of here." Ogborn says she even asked the assistant manager to call the police, but each time, she says, Summers told her, "No, we're still waiting for the cop." Summers denies Ogborn ever asked her to call the police or that the girl pleaded with her. Ogborn says that after more than three hours of dehumanizing treatment, Nix -- again on the instructions of the caller -- forced Ogborn to perform a sexual act. The caller then told Nix to hand the phone back to Summers and instructed her to bring in someone else. This time, she had Thomas Simms, a 58-year-old maintenance man who worked at the restaurant, get on the phone with the caller, but Simms refused to comply with the caller's strange demands. "Tom told me, 'This man is asking … for her to drop her apron so I can see her without the apron,' " she recalled. "And I said, 'Do what?!' " Summers frantically called her manager, Lisa Siddons, who the caller claimed had been on the other line all along. But when Siddons answered her phone, she said she'd been sleeping. It was then that Summers realized, she'd been had."

10/6/2007 12:20:50 PM

Quote :

"Police Arrive When Mount Washington Police Detective Buddy Stump arrived at the restaurant, he had Nix arrested and began the process of trying to figure out who the caller was. "The first thing I thought about was … this has got to be somebody on a pay phone," he said. "Maybe over [at] Winn Dixie and they're getting their jollies off at watching all the action and the police roll in." But thanks to an Internet search by his chief of police, Stump discovered that calls like this have been going on for more than 10 years. Ogborn, it turns out, was only the latest in a long line of victims. After a McDonald's employee used the "*69" feature to get a telephone number for the caller, Stump learned the call had been made from a supermarket pay phone -- in Panama City, Fla. Stump discovered that the call was made with an AT&T calling card and, upon learning that the biggest seller of those cards in Panama City is Wal-Mart, he contacted local police for help. A Decade of Calls It turned out that the Panama City Police Department had received several calls about investigations in multiple states for similar incidents. By early 2004, there had been more than 70 cases of hoax phone calls to fast food restaurants, dating as far back as 1994. At a McDonald's in Hinesville, Ga., a caller convinced a 55-year-old janitor to do a cavity search of a 19-year-old cashier, while in Fargo, N.D., a manager at a local Burger King strip-searched a 17-year-old female employee. In Phoenix, a caller had a Taco Bell manager pick out a customer and then strip-search her. And police in Massachusetts had been looking for a man who called three Wendy's restaurants near Boston in a single day. Stump was put in touch with Vic Flaherty, a detective in West Bridgewater, Mass., investigating the Wendy's calls. Flaherty told Stump he had traced the card's purchase to the exact time the caller bought it, but as luck would have it, the security cameras were pointed toward the front doors -- not the registers -- and didn't capture the sale. The Big Break The detectives caught a break when they discovered the calling card used in the Kentucky incident was purchased at a different Wal-Mart than the one in the Massachusetts case. This time, the cameras in the store were trained on the cash registers. "We can see the card go across the scanner -- we see everything," said Flaherty. "But now we see an individual. We don't know who that is." When detectives go back to the first surveillance tape to try and match up the face, they find the same man and notice something else -- he's wearing a uniform. The uniform is that of CCA -- Corrections Corporation of America -- a private prison company that runs a jail in Panama City. The warden identified the man in the video as one of his prison guards -- 38-year-old David Stewart. According to police, a search of Stewart's trailer revealed guns, police paraphernalia and training manuals. Police also discovered that Stewart had attended a local police academy and even volunteered as a deputy with a small police department in western Florida. "It's like a sigh of relief," Flaherty said. "It's been a long time, now you actually have a name to a face." The Calls Stop David Stewart was extradited to Kentucky and charged with solicitation of sodomy and impersonating a police officer and has pleaded not guilty. If convicted, he faces up to 16 years in prison. Clinical psychologist Jeff Gardere says the caller's actions were likely a way to feed a God-like complex by manipulating his victims emotionally, physically and sexually. He calls it "virtual voyeurism." Gardere goes on to say that it was no accident that caller was targeting fast food restaurants. "Everything is by the book," he explained. "This is how you serve it. This is exactly how you do it. You follow the book -- you're OK. I believe he picked fast food restaurants because he knew, once you got them away from that book, once it was something outside the manual or the procedures, they would be lost." Since Stewart's arrest in the summer of 2004, there have been no more reported incidents of hoax calls to fast food restaurants. "This tells me we got our man," said Stump. Nix has pleaded not guilty to charges of sodomy and sexual assault. Donna Summers was fired after the incident and has pleaded not guilty to a misdemeanor charge. She broke off her engagement to Nix after viewing the surveillance tapes. Meanwhile, Ogborn is suing McDonald's and Summers for false imprisonment. In a statement, McDonald's said, "We take this matter very seriously and through our training try very hard to warn employees about such schemes." McDonald's training manual does include a section which cautions employees that "no legitimate law enforcement agency would ever ask you to conduct such a search." But none of the employees "Primetime" spoke with at the Mount Washington, Ky., McDonald's say they ever recall seeing the warning."

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1297922

Page from McDonald's Employee Manual regarding strip searches:
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Primetime/ht_mcdonalds_security_051208.pdf

McDonald's response to Primetime's news story:
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1301447

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 12:22 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2007 12:21:13 PM

Quote :

"Ogborn says that after more than three hours of dehumanizing treatment, Nix -- again on the instructions of the caller -- forced Ogborn to perform a sexual act. The caller then told Nix to hand the phone back to Summers and instructed her to bring in someone else. This time, she had Thomas Simms, a 58-year-old maintenance man who worked at the restaurant, get on the phone with the caller, but Simms refused to comply with the caller's strange demands."

ok, if anyone deserves to be punished, it's the Asst. Manager's Fiance, Nix. From this description, it almost sounds like he was working with the caller. That guy should be held criminally responsible for everything he did to Ogborn, regardless who was on the phone telling him whatever.

10/6/2007 12:53:16 PM

Quote :

"This girl deserves every penny. McDonald's should have warned all employees of this risk. But it didn't. The thing is they're so on top of all the shit that their handbook is this hyperdetailed guide that it is to be used at all times. Every situation is included in the book, and employees have to follow it to the tee or risk losing their jobs. They eventually become machines...so when some real, crazy ass shit goes down, they don't know what to do."

Leave it to the TWW resident lesbian bitch to side with the girl who was too stupid and actually listened to the caller. btw 6.1 million is def a reasonable settlement for the "humiliation" of taking your clothes over and stick a broom handle in your couch. I am sure she was devastated for life and needs to money b.c she will never be able to work again. Also the money will be for her mental rehabilitation.

Fucking bullshit; it is not McD's fault that the girl is a retard. I guess Monday sitting at my desk at Sony Ericsson if a random guys calls and accuses me of stealing cellphones; I will comply and go to the supply room and put a pen up my ass. Hell, if i knew i could sue S.E for 6 million i would run around the building naked.

10/6/2007 1:13:51 PM

i'm gonna go to home depot today and buy a chainsaw and when i get home i'm going to accidentally saw my finger off...i should be able to get about $15 million from home depot for selling me something so dangerous

10/6/2007 1:18:22 PM

Why be responsible for your won stupidity when you can blame someone else then sue them.

10/6/2007 1:21:04 PM

^^Who says I'm a lesbian? I'd do TreeTwista in an instant.

But, seriously, did you read the recent additions to this thread? There's some background to this story that you may want to catch up on.

Also, lay off the rhetoric and use your brain.

10/6/2007 2:08:57 PM

well give me a summary so that i do not have to read 3 pages of crap

10/6/2007 2:18:09 PM

The manager strip searched the girl BEFORE the fiancee came in! This was a criminal act! Why is she being allowed to profit $1.1 million from criminal behavior!?!?!

10/6/2007 2:26:52 PM

Quote :

"Everybody is still suffering because of this, and now maybe McDonald's will suffer a little bit in the pocketbook," Oldfather said."

we live in a cruel cruel world; all the suffering

I still do not understand how McD's fault for some random pervert

10/6/2007 3:23:27 PM

If it's the culture of McDonalds that forces these poor innocent employees to lose all common sense and decency, how then were two employees perfectly able to resist their conditioning and walk away without doing anything?

10/6/2007 3:26:50 PM

I guess they weren't very good employees.

In their defense however, the employee manual does specifically state that "Under no circumstances should any member of McDonald's management or staff conduct a search of any employee or customer's person. No legitimate law enforcement agency would ever ask you to conduct such searches. If someone claiming to be a law enforcement official requests that a manager or employee conduct a strip search, or any search of another employee or customer, try to obtain the name and phone number of the caller and immediately call your local police department to report the incident. Contact your owner/operator or security manager about the incident as soon as possible."

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 3:40 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2007 3:34:54 PM

I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that McDonalds is responsible for this. It's the fault of the girl for being stupid enough to let her manager humiliate her like that and it's the fault of the manager for being stupid enough to get duped by a prank caller telling her to strip search random employees.

10/6/2007 4:37:58 PM

sexual harassment: it's your our own fault you stupid slut

seriously, do you guys even see what you're saying?

10/6/2007 6:31:55 PM

^ NO. jesus.
But the question is: should the corporation of McDonalds be held accountable for this?

10/6/2007 6:41:35 PM

It's the girl's fault for letting it go on as long as it did without her thinking something wasn't right and stopping it. I can sort of buy her trusting the manager to "do the right thing" (which reminds me, on what planet is sexual assault the right thing?) but what the fuck made her think the manager's fiance had any authority to be doing anything regardless of the directions of the "cop" on the phone.

It's the manager's fault for being so fucking stupid that she was unable to think to herself that it's a little odd that a cop would be calling and asking her to perform the search as opposed to stopping by and arresting the employee, and also her fault for not thinking something was wierd when the "cop" was asking her to bring other people in to conduct the search. More than anyone else in this, the manager is the most responsible for everything that happened because all it would take is her hanging up the phone and calling the cops to end it all.

It's the fiance's fault for being so fucking twisted and sick that he would stay in on this.

In no way shape or form is it McDonalds fault for not explicitly giving their employees instructions that say:

Dear employee,

From time to time you may recieve calls from a person claiming to be a police officer. This person will claim that an employee has stolen something from a customer, and request that you bring the employee into your office for questioning. They will then often request that you order the employee to strip, and that you personaly conduct a strip search all while the "officer" remains on the line. They will then request that you ask other employees and people that you know to come into the officer and have them also strip search the employee. They will then also ask you to perform sexual acts upon the employee or order the employee to perform sexual acts upon you. Although this may seem like standard operating procedure on Mars, we are on Earth and as a result this is not SOP for McDonalds or the local police. Please be advised that this is a prank call and you should instead hang up on the caller and call the local police.

Thank You

Ronald R McDonald

10/6/2007 6:49:34 PM

^^^^^^People are different, 1337 b4k4.

I just want you guys to think for a moment.

Why did this guy prey on fast food places? Why did dozens of places before them get fooled? Why did so many people cooperate with the prank caller?

You see, you guys are saying, "Because they're stupid." And I gotta share that that ain't enough. Again, just how stupid are you suggesting they are? Cause, again, if it was just stupidity, they'd have to be really, really stupid, which they obviously aren't..

This girl was stripped naked. Some of you have said that you can understand her seeming cooperation in it up to that point, but after that, it doesn't make any sense to you. Well, you all aren't eighteen-year-old females...for that matter, you all aren't this particular female...so, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that you're so confused.

Something terrible happened here, and y'all wanna blame it on stupidity. I blame it on the same system that provides me with my special-order dollar double cheesburgers in the blink of an eye...magic has its price...

Seriously, get over the 6 mil and think about it.

(And to the gentlemen who called this girl a whore and a slut and suggested that she's so ugly she was happy to get sexually assaulted...you suck, and I just can't wait to hear more of your enlightened opinions.)

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 7:23 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2007 7:08:08 PM

Quote :

"LoneSnarkBUT THE FUCKING MANAGER GETS $1.1 MILLION!?!? She is profiting off her own criminal activity (strip searching someone against their will is a crime, whether you knew it or not)!!! That $1.1 million, plus everything she owns, should be awarded to the victim in this case."

WTF are you talking about? the manager didnt get any money. the manager got a conviction and probation.

Quote :

" A former assistant manager, Donna Summers, was placed on probation for a misdemeanor conviction in relation to the incident. Her former fiance, Walter Nix Jr., is serving five years in prison for sexually abusing Ogborn during the 3½-hour search."

good lord how many people here have a reading comprehension problem?






[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 7:21 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2007 7:19:45 PM

^

The article posted wasn't the whole story. See my previous post.

10/6/2007 7:39:05 PM

Quote :

"I blame it on the same system that provides me with my special-order dollar double cheesburgers in the blink of an eye"

That system also provides explicit instructions with respect to strip searching employees and customers. McDonald's did not fail to account for the possibility that one of their employees may be asked to conduct searches.

You really like the Nuremberg defense, don't you?

10/6/2007 7:42:20 PM

I still want to see how this nightmare made it to trial and how McDonald's can be liable for not having regional crime blotter systems in their stores ...

My suspicion is that McDonald's legal team fucked up bigtime. And the girl's attorney was good -- she sued for so much that settling out of court would've been egregious, but she knew there'd be jury empathetic to the abused woman's story.

Even more telling is that the jury was 8 women and 4 men -- how do you supposed that happened?

10/6/2007 7:45:26 PM

I thought all McD's are franchises anyway. If nothing else the franchise owner should be one the liable for the actions of his managers not the corporation.

Regardless even if Ronald fucking McDonald himself came down to do the strip search. $6.1 MILLION is extremely frivolous.

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 7:53 PM. Reason : l]

10/6/2007 7:47:55 PM

^ Why would they sue the franchise owner exactly? That makes even less sense than this lawsuit ...

10/6/2007 7:59:11 PM

This particular restaurant is owned directly by McDonalds.

10/6/2007 8:03:06 PM

Quote :

"It's the girl's fault for letting it go on as long as it did without her thinking something wasn't right and stopping it. I can sort of buy her trusting the manager to "do the right thing" (which reminds me, on what planet is sexual assault the right thing?) but what the fuck made her think the manager's fiance had any authority to be doing anything regardless of the directions of the "cop" on the phone."

Well, that's blaming the victim. The question here isn't whose fault it was -- obviously it was the manager's. Just whether there was civil liability for McDonald's.

I think you're just going on with the old "she didn't say 'no' loud enough" excuse for rape/sexual assault. Not good.

We just can't make companies liability for all the depravity of their employees ... otherwise we're going to have some pretty broke companies.

Also, on the topic of money -- I think the award is so egregious because the jury didn't have a good basis for what was "reasonable." To them $6.1 million seemed like a huge reduction compared to the $200 million ask.

10/6/2007 8:04:57 PM

^^^^^^You're the one who made a point of mentioning the fact that this was a directly owned McDonald's, not a franchise.

And, yeah, they did fail to account for the possibility that one of their employees may be asked to conduct searches...because, well, a lot of their employees conducted searches. Apparently, including a bit about it in the handbook wasn't enough. WHO KNEW?!?!? NOT MCDONALD'S!!!!

Hey, the employees have got drive-thru-service records to set!

^^^^So you're still stuck on the 6.1, huh?

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 8:08 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2007 8:05:31 PM

Quote :

"Apparently, including a bit about it in the handbook wasn't enough. "

+

Quote :

"The thing is they're so on top of all the shit that their handbook is this hyperdetailed guide that it is to be used at all times. Every situation is included in the book, and employees have to follow it to the tee or risk losing their jobs. They eventually become machines...so when some real, crazy ass shit goes down, they don't know what to do."

=

McDonald's employees are only capable of operating in accordance with their guide...except when it comes to strip searches?

10/6/2007 8:34:33 PM

I don't have a problem with tort law and punitive damages per se, but I don't think punishments like this should be in the hands of jurors. We don't let jurors decide on punishments in criminal trials, why do we let them calculate numbers and awards in civil trials?

Quote :

"people should be able to sue for whatever for they'd like. it should be up to the judges/juries to decide what cases are worthy of trial and if found guilty, what sort of award should be given. broad-stroke limits on courts invariably have unintended negative consequences. "

sarijoul

Do you think that criminal sentencing guidelines have unintended negative consequences?

If we had juries handing down criminal punishments like they formulate civil penalties, we would see assholes getting much tougher punishments than criminals the jury finds sympathetic. Sex offenders might get sentenced to death while other criminals get off too easy.

On the same token, faceless companies frequently face much tougher civil penalties than sympathetic individuals, because juries can be fickle. At the very least, there should be limits to punitive damages and more power by judges to throw out emotional jury rulings.

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 9:07 PM. Reason : 2]

10/6/2007 9:06:37 PM

^^^ if you never worked fast food then shut the fuck up. the work is repetitive, but that didnt' make me a fucking drone. you wanna know why this guy tried fast food? because there are several thousand random fast food places. you also forget to leave out that his success rate was very low in getting people to do this stuff. remember the guy in florida giving door to door breast exams, people fell for that and they didn't work fast food. they were just equally ignorant. falling victim to such a ridiculous prank call as this should NOT be rewarded. she should have taken her life lesson and moved on. guess what, she's never gonna fall victim to something like this again is she

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 9:14 PM. Reason : no]

10/6/2007 9:08:29 PM

[Edited on October 6, 2007 at 9:27 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2007 9:11:35 PM

Quote :

"Why did this guy prey on fast food places? Why did dozens of places before them get fooled? Why did so many people cooperate with the prank caller?"

He probably preyed on fast food places because there are lots and lots and lots of them around, so it's a very large pool of people to work with. Another reason is that lots and lots of customers go into these places so it's easy to just make up a scenario because no employee is gonna remember everyone who comes into the restaurant and everything that goes on, making it easier to trick somebody. I think the biggest reason that this guy was calling fast food places though is because that's where you're gonna find the most stupid people.

Quote :

"You see, you guys are saying, "Because they're stupid." And I gotta share that that ain't enough. Again, just how stupid are you suggesting they are? Cause, again, if it was just stupidity, they'd have to be really, really stupid, which they obviously aren't.."

I'm not suggesting that working at a fast food place automatically makes you stupid, more like stupid people don't have anywhere else to work so you're gonna find most of them at McDonalds taking your drive thru orders.

Quote :

"This girl was stripped naked. Some of you have said that you can understand her seeming cooperation in it up to that point, but after that, it doesn't make any sense to you. Well, you all aren't eighteen-year-old females...for that matter, you all aren't this particular female...so, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that you're so confused."

Ha ha, you're so astute. "You're not her so you don't know what she was thinking." Way to say something while saying nothing.

Quote :

"Something terrible happened here, and y'all wanna blame it on stupidity. I blame it on the same system that provides me with my special-order dollar double cheesburgers in the blink of an eye...magic has its price..."

Something terrible did happen here, I'm not trying to argue that. I'm just saying that if this girl or her manager weren't idiots then they could have avoided this whole mess. Trying to blame her lack of backbone on working in this fast food system you don't seem to like is just ludicrous though.

10/6/2007 9:24:23 PM

The corporation itself is not at fault here. I wouldn't blame the girl either, as she was just doing what she was told. She just seems really naive, that's all. Its the manager and her boyfriend did wrong.

Quote :

"This is clearly a case of her going after the deep pockets though. She could have sued the guy in jail, and likely won, but really wouldn't have gotten anything except practically ruining that guy's life (since most of his paycheck would go to her). Now, she gets 6 million dollars, but the guy's only in jail for 5 years. "

If I was in this girl's situation, I would have sued the guy just to ruin his life after what he did to her. McDonald's isn't losing much, just 6.1 million dollars, not much to a huge business.

haha, she looks so happy now:

10/6/2007 10:36:48 PM

Is anyone else reminded of The Milgram experiment from this?

10/7/2007 12:20:12 AM

I think it was more of a combination of common stupidity, perverted douche bags, and the caller being more charismatic that the article makes him out to be.

I don't buy that it was an innate property of McD's/Fast Food restaurants, because as the articles note, other employees refused to partake.

10/7/2007 12:37:59 AM

Quote :

""The jury also awarded $1.1 million to Donna Summers, a former McDonald's assistant store manager who also sued the fast-food chain. Summers, who had asked the jury to award her $50 million, led the strip search of Ogborn at the direction of the hoax caller. Summers was placed on probation for a misdemeanor conviction in relation to the incident. Her former fiance, Walter Nix Jr., is serving five years in prison for sexually abusing Ogborn during the hoax call.""

As long as everyone agrees THIS is criminal I'll be fine with it.

10/7/2007 1:24:08 AM

Quote :

"Do you think that criminal sentencing guidelines have unintended negative consequences? "

yes most definitely. see for example: mandatory minimum sentences or three strikes and you're out. they don't allow the judge/jury to make a specific judgment for that case.

10/7/2007 1:33:08 AM

If I knew i could get a 6.1 settlement out of it; if some guy called at my job and told me to put a broom up my ass i'd be in the janitors closet in a half second.

10/7/2007 4:22:11 AM

Quote :

"Why did this guy prey on fast food places? Why did dozens of places before them get fooled? Why did so many people cooperate with the prank caller? "

Because fast food places are a dime a dozen, and usualy not filled with the brightest of people so it's easier to remain hidden and annonymous. I mean, it only took 10 years before someone decided to dial *69.

Quote :

"You see, you guys are saying, "Because they're stupid." And I gotta share that that ain't enough. Again, just how stupid are you suggesting they are? Cause, again, if it was just stupidity, they'd have to be really, really stupid, which they obviously aren't.. "

Aparently, they are really really stupid, I mean, they actually believed that a cop would call them on the phone to have them conduct a stip seach of an employee and then rape her. And neither the manager or the employee thought anything was wrong for 3 hours of this.

And your claim that something else must account for this ignores that two employees found it quite easy to put the phone down in disgust and walk off. Why weren't they brainwashed by the evil McDonalds corporate machine?

Quote :

"This girl was stripped naked. Some of you have said that you can understand her seeming cooperation in it up to that point, but after that, it doesn't make any sense to you. Well, you all aren't eighteen-year-old females...for that matter, you all aren't this particular female...so, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that you're so confused. "

So are you saying that at 18 you would had no idea that strip searches and rape conducted over the phone are not SOP for the local police, that your manager's fiance has no authority over you, and that your parents never taught you "good touch, bad touch"?

We're not talking she wore a dress to work and the manager grabbed her ass here. We're talking she obeyed the orders of some random guy on the phone to strip, and did so for 3 hours.

Quote :

"Seriously, get over the 6 mil and think about it."

I am thinking about it, and I can't figure out how 2 people can be so completely retarded as to let this happen. In 3 hours, no one thought something was wrong and hung up the phone to call the real police.

Quote :

"Well, that's blaming the victim."

Damn right it is. Just because you're a victim does not absolve you of your personal responsibility to your own well being. If some stranger calls my store and my manger says the guy claims he's a cop and that I have to be flogged, I bear responsibility for myself and it is sure as hell my fault if I stand there and let my manager beat the fuck out of me. Is my manger wrong, sure as fuck, but so am I.

Quote :

"I think you're just going on with the old "she didn't say 'no' loud enough" excuse for rape/sexual assault. Not good. "

I'm going with the "she didn't say 'no' at all" defense here. Remember at the order of some random stranger on the phone, she stripped and performed sexual acts on her manager's fiance. At no point did she try and leave or stop everything, so yes, she shares in the blame for what happened.

Quote :

" Apparently, including a bit about it in the handbook wasn't enough."

What more would you have them do? Does McDonalds really need to tell all of their employees that rape is bad?

Quote :

"As long as everyone agrees THIS is criminal I'll be fine with it."

Absolutely it is. But it's also the result of a society where no one has any responsibility for their own choices.

10/7/2007 12:15:04 PM

Quote :

"HUR: If I knew i could get a 6.1 settlement out of it [and] some guy called at my job and told me to put a broom up my ass i'd be in the janitors closet in a half second."

o rly? so you do have a price... interesting.

how about $200 and VIP tickets to the NCSU/FSU game, if you let me stick a broom handle in your ass? not the whole thing, and I'll use lube.

10/7/2007 12:19:43 PM

$6.1 Million and $200 are not close to each other. I'd do it for just a cool million (after taxes). Do you seriously expect us to believe YOU would not be willing to do that for $6.1 Million?

[Edited on October 7, 2007 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .,.]

10/7/2007 2:02:52 PM

I'm just trying to find the minimum price at which HUR will take a broomstick up his ass. He gave an initial bid of $6.1M. I countered with $200 + FSU tickets. (He is a TKE brother, after all) --- and so now the negotiations begin.

as for you, LoneSnark ... you say $1M is an acceptable price to allow yourself to be sodomized by a broomhandle, but I'd be willing to bet you'd take a dick in your ass for $100K







[Edited on October 7, 2007 at 3:14 PM. Reason : ]

10/7/2007 2:53:38 PM

only if you are gentle haha

10/7/2007 4:22:21 PM

Quote :

"McDonald's employees are only capable of operating in accordance with their guide...except when it comes to strip searches?"

I was aware of the fact that my two posts don't seem to reconcile.

My point, which you already understand, is that it's completely mindless work dictated by a set of strit rules and attempts at indoctrination.

You do this, this, and this. Then this, this, and this. Again. This, this, and this. Then this, this, and this. Okay, let's try it faster. Faster, faster, faster. This, this, and this. Why do we this? Well, because this is what we do. Do you have the McDonald's spirit? Smile when you serve that. McDonald's is a happy place! Don't do that. Do this, this, and this.

Combine that model with the fact that they tend to hire disenfranchised people who may not be particularly well-informed, and bad shit can go down. And the people who set up the system need to be prepared to take responsibility when it does go down. I'm not saying the system needs to be changed...it's highly efficient and gets food into the bellies of people all over the world, but there are obviously some drawbacks in the system that someone's gonna need to pay for.

And, rufus, [1337b4k4[/user], you're still not getting it. Her female assistant manager strip searched her. At that point, she was naked in a back room, scared as fuck, and completely humiliated. So, yeah, it is really hard for me to point a finger at her and blame her for what happened after that. It's easy for you two...you want to blame her, call her stupid, call her spineless...and, again, not consider the idea that maybe something else was going on there.

10/7/2007 5:15:40 PM

SO AGAIN, McD's workers are generally stupid, so McD's should be responsible for them being stupid? makes sense to me...

and again, if McD's workers are so brainwashed, WHY DID TWO OF THEM PUT THE PHONE DOWN AND REFUSE TO COOPERATE, INCLUDING A FUCKING JANITOR?




btw, Bridget, this guy just called me on the phone and said you stole something. I'm going to need you to come over to my place, strip naked, and then suck my dick.

10/7/2007 5:18:42 PM

Quote :

"some drawbacks in the system that someone's gonna need to pay for."

How about we make the people who are responsible for the bad shit happening pay. Like the manager, who not only should not have been awarded any money for her incompetence but should be locked away for a long time for being so retarded. She clearly is incapable of fuctioning in modern society and has demonstrated herself to be a danger to others.

Again, how is McDonalds in any way shape or form responsible for the complete mental retardation of their employees AND their failure to follow guidelines CLEARLY outlined in company policy? What else could they do? Hire a manager? Oh wait... the manager fucking strip searched her own god damn employee.

Quote :

"you're still not getting it. Her female assistant manager strip searched her. At that point, she was naked in a back room, scared as fuck, and completely humiliated. So, yeah, it is really hard for me to point a finger at her and blame her for what happened after that. It's easy for you two...you want to blame her, call her stupid, call her spineless...and, again, not consider the idea that maybe something else was going on there."

It should never have even gotten as far as her being stripped. If my manager calls me into his office, tells me that there's a guy on the phone claiming to be a cop and saying that they're going to need to stripsearch me, I'm going to tell my manager that he can tell the guy on the phone to go fuck himself and that if I'm going to be searched they can send the cops down to the store to take me to jail. Then again, people in my office are smart enough not to believe random strangers calling claiming to be cops and demanding we stripsearch employees.

Again, she was 18 years old, it's not like she doesn't know sexual assault is wrong.


[Edited on October 7, 2007 at 5:58 PM. Reason : dasflhj]

10/7/2007 5:56:52 PM

Hi, my name is Louise. After dropping out of high school I became a hamburger flipper at McDonalds. One day at work an anonymous person called in claiming to be a police officer told me I had to be stripped searched b.c of a possible theft from a customer. Intelligence is not one of my strong points so instead of using my brain I just went along with it. Before I realized what was going on I was naked in the managers office with a broom stuck in my twat .

Two years later I am smiling because I somehow convinced the court that it was McD's fault for my ignorance and for not knowing one of their managers was a pervert. I am thus getting 6.1 million dollars in settlement which is probably 10x my lifetime earning potential. Sometimes ignorance does pay off

[Edited on October 7, 2007 at 6:33 PM. Reason : l]

10/7/2007 6:32:18 PM

i woulda gave her like 50k

[Edited on October 7, 2007 at 6:45 PM. Reason : hahahah, she stuck a brook up her pussy???^ man what a dumbass...she should only get 20k now]

10/7/2007 6:44:13 PM

Quote :

"My point, which you already understand, is that it's completely mindless work"

I certainly understand the mindless work and resulting mental fatigue. Pretty much every job involves mind-numbing repetitive and monotonous tasks. It's a fact of life and has been since there's been life.

I would also agree with you that the nature of the work contributed to the psychology of the situation. The caller's police office persona turned the whole event into real life Milgram and Stanford prison experiments. The manager and her fiance submitted to the caller's authority, and the girl submitted to the manager's and fiance's authority.

Nonetheless, neither the manager nor the fiance can use that as an excuse for criminal behavior (Nuremberg defense). Nor can McDonald's be held accountable for behavior that is very clearly illegal, is in fact specifically disallowed by McDonald's, and was ultimately instigated by a clever manipulator--not a McDonald's employee.

^^ & ^^^ & ^^^^ It doesn't matter if she's an idiot or not. Her being an idiot does not change the fact that a crime was committed against her.

10/7/2007 6:52:56 PM