I have never shot a 12ga with a pistol grip. Is it as hard on your wrist as it appears it would be?

11/26/2007 7:29:18 PM

It's not bad at all as long as you grip it close and shoot from the hip. You can actually pump on the recoil and empty the whole thing as fast as a semi-auto.

I've heard horror stories about idiots trying to aim down the barrel and breaking their nose when the pull the trigger.

(They leave the sights off for a reason)

[Edited on November 26, 2007 at 7:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/26/2007 7:34:55 PM

Quote :

"what kind of parts would be good for a home defense shotgun?"

That all depends. For home protection you want to make sure you can maneuver your piece with ease. Get rid of the stock barrel and go with a 20" or 18.5" ~$100. Add a pistol grip and you have yourself a nice firearm to deter any robber or thug.

Trust me, if someone is trying to fuck with your shit, and you make it evident you have a shotgun. The fight will be over before it starts. If he knows what's good for him.

11/26/2007 8:47:03 PM

Quote :

"I have it stored at my parents house now that I've got a number of pistols and live in a building where the walls are all at least 6" of concrete."

Additional benefit of a shotgun is the fact that it isn't as likely to over-penetrate as a handgun.

11/26/2007 8:56:37 PM

so what are some decent ranges/gunshops around the campus area that have helpful employees. ive wanted to get a sig for a while. maybe a .40, but not necessarily one for everyday carry just yet.

11/26/2007 10:03:00 PM

pretty much everyones favorite in Raleigh is PDHSC or Lawmans. No-one seems to like Davi's. However, if you have a military ID, you get 10% off in stock firearms and 20% off accessories at Davi's.

11/26/2007 10:10:54 PM

^4x

or just make it easy on yourself and choose from the variety of factory home defense offerings from mossberg, remington, winchester, etc. without having to swap barrels.

mossberg has a offering with a badass "strike" barrel:

11/26/2007 10:53:02 PM

Quote :

"I have some kick ass walnut that has been drying since '58 if you start making grips. Scott Sensing and Hakan Pek are both off the radar, there is a market for custom grips, look what Esmerelda charges for hers. I want some walnut square bottom pin covered with ambi cut for a full size if you have some free time. "

Man 1911 grips are expensive as hell.
A guy had a like new set of Hakans for $80 and they were just plain cocobolo.
I don't think I'll be producing many grips, just enough for me...unless I buy a bandsaw and belt sander.
I wonder how much money I could make off of grips...

Quote :

"does anyone use the electronic ear protection? does it work/is it worth it?"

I've known a few people who've got the Caldwell electronic muffs.
They work and are only $40.
The differences between cheap and expensive electronic muffs is how fast they recover from shutting off after a bang and the more expensive ones are usually lighter and more compact.
The Caldwells take 3-5 seconds while the Peltors take only 1-2 seconds before the mics cut back on.
I'd say if you use muffs then get some cheap ones, they're almost as good at a much lower price.
I don't like muffs so I don't own any electronic ones.

Quote :

"I am in the market for a pistol that will only be used while on outdoor/camping/climbing trips. So, I want something small and lightweight but fairly strong. It will never be used to hunt but hopefully it will be able to deter larger predators. Obviously the cheaper the better and I'm not a gun enthusiast so lets try to keep it simple. So thoughts on the glock 33? I think its supposed to be fairly small but quite a bit of stopping force."

Without regular practice I'd say a snub nosed revolver in 357mag loaded with 38 special +P til you get the hang of full power 357.
They make aluminum, titanium, and scandium framed snubs that are very light and easy to pack.
They cost as little as $300 for a steel framed Taurus.

I wouldn't suggest the Glock 33 as a first gun. 357Sig is a handful in a subcompact.
I really don't suggest 357Sig to anyone who is asking for advice. It's simply too much noise and recoil for most people and that's very bad if you don't know how to shoot in the first place.
Plus, this is my opinion, the 357Sig doesn't offer much performace. Sure it throws a light bullet really fast, but in handguns bullet mass is more important than velocity. A 9mm is about the point of diminishing returns in 35 cal semiauto handguns. It's not til you get to the 357Mag that you get more performace in a 35 cause you can shoot heavier bullets.
If you want more power take it up to a 40S&W or 45ACP.

Quote :

"whats a decent relatively inexpensive shotgun for home defense?"

Mossberg 500 for $209 or Mossberg Maverick for $160 at Walmart.
They might not look nice but they go bang when you pull the trigger.
Accessories are overrated (pistol grips, heat shields, speed feed stocks, side saddles, etc).
The best thing you can do to turn a shotgun into a kick ass home gun is to buy a ton of ammo and practice.
Side saddles are combersome and heavy and can slow you down. If you can't hit it with 6 shots then you need to practice more.
Pistol grips give you little control and contrary to what many people say you still have to aim (or correctly point) a shotgun if you expect to hit anything. Shouldering and pointing a shotgun is much more effective than trying to point one from the hip with a pistol grip.
Watch the n00bs at the range with their pistol grips. They can't hit shit with buckshot even at 10 yards.
Really the best options for a home shotgun are shortening the barrel to 18.5" and maybe adding a magazine extension (which can't be done to the Mossy 500 or Maverick but can be done to an 835, 590, or Rem 870).
You can usually find short barreled Moss 500s for $250 or a pistol grip short barrele Maverick for $180 (ditch the pistol grip and buy a stock). That's as cheap as it gets.
You can do what I did and buy a hacksaw and cut a long barrel. I can give detailed instructions if you want.

Quote :

"so what are some decent ranges/gunshops around the campus area that have helpful employees."

PDHSC has always been my favorite.
Davi's sometimes has arrogant salespeople and prices aren't as good as PDHSC.
The people at Lawmen's have been nice, but I've never really bought anything from them.

[Edited on November 26, 2007 at 11:01 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2007 10:54:51 PM

Quote :

"Additional benefit of a shotgun is the fact that it isn't as likely to over-penetrate as a handgun."

Yeah, that was my point in mentioning it. I live on a lower floor in a downtown condo, so all of my walls are load bearing and incredibly thick, so over penetration isn't really an issue (that's what she said).

11/26/2007 11:22:07 PM

Yeah, I figured as much, I was just making sure that your subtleties weren't lost.

11/26/2007 11:28:00 PM

^^^ If you go fumblers route with the hacksaw, CDNN has M500s with wood furniture and 20-something inch barrels for $199 + FFL + ship.

Maverick 88s were acquired by Mossberg a few years ago, and some of the parts are interchangeable with the 500s, but not all, so read around if you're thinking about going the less expensive route.

and.. if we're whoring angry looking shotgun pictures..

11/27/2007 7:16:11 PM

nice

11/27/2007 7:38:39 PM

Mine is not mean looking but it sure is fun to break clays with.

Browning Gold Hunter 3" 28" barrel

11/27/2007 8:42:47 PM

not cheap but to continue the picture whoring...my beretta 1201 FP 12 guage semi-auto.
i thought about selling it and then i went out in the country and did some shooting and i realized i can never give it up.



[Edited on November 27, 2007 at 10:40 PM. Reason : .]

11/27/2007 10:40:39 PM

^damns you, i wanted that thing!!!1!

too bad i didnt have the $$$$

11/27/2007 11:01:40 PM

this with three dot sights

11/27/2007 11:10:07 PM

Quote :

"^damns you, i wanted that thing!!!1! too bad i didnt have the $$$$"

"It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."

11/27/2007 11:20:29 PM

Wow. I just read about the Mossberg line launcher.

11/27/2007 11:43:44 PM

^hehe, looks like a nerf launcher

11/28/2007 12:40:21 AM

My Benelli Montefeltro

11/28/2007 12:09:14 PM

(soon to be) my Savage 24

11/28/2007 12:15:20 PM

I still have my 835 ulti mag for sale

11/28/2007 1:37:18 PM

^$175
Keep me in mind when you're real desparate for cash.

11/28/2007 1:43:22 PM

lol... not that desperate


I wanna use the money to start building a new rifle

11/28/2007 1:46:05 PM

If you sell me the shotgun you'll have enough money for...nice scope mounts lol.
It'd get you a stripped lower and some lower parts.

11/28/2007 1:47:31 PM

haha true


but I'd still need the flat top upper, the flip ups, the eotech, etc

11/28/2007 1:50:20 PM

If you're interested, once you get the upper assembled (less the gas tube) you can send it off to Leitner-Wise and they'll convert it into a piston job, basically like a HK416 instead of the direct gas system.

11/28/2007 1:56:02 PM

Something else worth looking at from a social perspective:
http://www.armedamerica.org/

Apparently it has gotten good (and angry) reviews from across the political spectrum.

11/29/2007 10:13:16 AM

So now this thread begs the question, why do we ourselves own guns?

I think I might answer, "For you, for me, for every American that deserves to live free from the oppression of fear and terror."

11/29/2007 10:49:09 AM

Man that sounds gay.

I own guns cause i'm a gangsta







Oh, scuse me, this isn't chit chat.

Umm, I own guns because:
-it is not law enforcement's job to provide personal security 24/7. They work for the public, not individuals.
-my parents came to the US as a result of the Khmer Rouge taking over Cambodia in the late 70s. When they took over they confiscated guns and told everyone they won't need guns in a utopian society. Then they killed a million people and forced the rest into work camps. It won't happen here in the US but it's still nice to exercise my rights.
-for hunting
-for recreational shooting
-I find them mechanically interesting

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 11:09 AM. Reason : Est. deaths during the Khmer Rouge are 3-5 million including deaths from starvation, disease, etc]

11/29/2007 11:05:01 AM

Thanks Fumbler, I saw that edit.

Seriously though, besides being a great hobby, owning one as a patriot isn't a bad idea.

11/29/2007 11:09:50 AM

I completely agree.

11/29/2007 11:10:42 AM

I just met a girl who has 3 guns with her at all times and knows how to use them.

She's also extremely attractive and speaks 5 languages.

I think I'm in love.

It's too bad she just got out of a relationship.



I want this.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 11:19 AM. Reason : d]

11/29/2007 11:15:24 AM

^ Why, is he at the bottom of a river bed?

11/29/2007 11:19:05 AM

No, he's in Virginia. She's just enjoying being single again. After I found out she was an avid shooter, I was like hell yeah. Bonus points.

11/29/2007 11:21:24 AM

Yeah, shooter chicks can be hard to come by, at least you can have good times together at the range. It almost seems like a lot of women are top shots when they give shooting their best try.

11/29/2007 11:28:40 AM

She carries around a photo of her first target on her phone.

Close groupings. I'm sure I'll be much, much worse when we go to the range.

11/29/2007 11:39:33 AM

anybody seen any of the new Walther PPS composites? I think only the 9mm is out so far (.40 sometime soon)...seems like everybody is getting in on the polymer craze but I've always liked Walther...wouldnt mind getting one of the .40s

http://tinyurl.com/3dwgpy

11/29/2007 11:45:28 AM

Did any of you guys see those new CZ big bore rifles at the gun show!!! I think they were at Ed's table. There was one chambered in .375 h&h and one in .458 win mag. They had beautiful walnut stocks and were only 900 dollars. I know what I'm doing when I get my first real paycheck.

11/29/2007 11:49:42 AM

^^

that walther looks really nice compared to their p99.

i haven't heard good things about their quality though (p99)

they are incredibly light in the hand, which usually means more recoil, right?

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:07 PM. Reason : s]

11/29/2007 12:03:30 PM

light can mean more recoil but a 9mm doesnt have much recoil to begin with

i'm always curious when a long-term reputable manufacturer like Walther gets into the polymer game...some like Springfield (XD) do a good job, and other companies not so good a job

11/29/2007 12:04:51 PM

their previous handguns were polymer framed too.

i'm def. considering the p239 and the walther pps as a concealed single stacked carry gun.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:10 PM. Reason : v]

11/29/2007 12:08:35 PM

Springfield didn't do a good job of designing and manufacturing a poly pistol.
They did a good job of importing and marketing a good poly pistol.
The XD is actually made by a croatian company and is called the HS2000.

The P99 has had problems, probably more so than other guns such as Glocks.
In the NCFS we have 10 LEOs with 10 S&W P99s.
7 have had to go back to the factory (firing mechanism won't work) and now S&W is replacing them with M&P40s.
Now, these P99s are older and are DA/SA. The newer DAO may not have the problems.

11/29/2007 1:16:24 PM

^^ They're linked with S&W now, so if they're working with the same guys who did the M&P they should be alright.

Also TreeTwista10 was defending the 5.7 x 28mm in a thread months ago, which I dismissed out of hand as a poor "in home" self defense cartridge. However the more I read, the more I'm intrigued by this round and its possibilities (if it can survive Sarah Brady's plans for it) could be significant if enough R&D is put into it. So I owe him an apology.

11/29/2007 1:19:36 PM

Walther made great guns before Smith & Wesson bought them in the late 60s.

I'm mostly pissed about the PPK, which S&W rechambered to .380 from 7.65mm totally screwing up the action.

11/29/2007 3:08:08 PM

i'm in the market for a GLOCK G19 or G26. i'm not really worried about stopping power or home defense. but i would like something that's easy to carry if I want to and cheap ammo.

11/29/2007 4:14:43 PM

Quote :

"If you're interested, once you get the upper assembled (less the gas tube) you can send it off to Leitner-Wise and they'll convert it into a piston job, basically like a HK416 instead of the direct gas system."

yeah, I plan on going with a piston upper

I'd like to get something in that new 6.8 as it would be my ideal combat rifle, but it's not realy affordable to shoot yet

11/29/2007 4:27:25 PM

You could get a Dillon http://tinyurl.com/2vyyzg to reload for the 6.8.

11/29/2007 4:41:44 PM

one of the downsides (imo) that would make me hesitant about that walther is that i think the .40 is either 5 or 6 rounds (two different mag sizes) and the 9mm is 6 or 7 rounds (two different mag sizes)

my XD 3" .40 holds 11 and my Taurus PT145 holds 10+1 and they're quite compact themselves

11/29/2007 4:50:44 PM

Quote :

"yeah, I plan on going with a piston upper"

Why would you get a piston system?
The direct gas impingement works fine, it's not like you're going into combat or won't be able to clean the gun regularly. Even then the gas system works for the guys in Iraq.
IMO that's money wasted that you can spend on other parts (or reloading equip!).

6.8 SPC would kick ass.
You've gotta get into reloading to be able to afford to shoot just about everything.
The equipment will pay for itself in no time.

Quote :

"i'm in the market for a GLOCK G19 or G26. i'm not really worried about stopping power or home defense. but i would like something that's easy to carry if I want to and cheap ammo."

The 26 will be much easier to carry than the 19...but the 19 would be more fun to shoot.

11/29/2007 5:16:22 PM