Quote :

"the us government is one of the most forgiving and non-directly imperialist entities in all of human history"

hahahahahaha

USA#1 !!!

Quote :

"we do not tax the Germans, the South Koreans, the Iraqis, or any of the peoples which share the same space as our military"

not directly. Do a Google search on neo-colonialism and learn something over winter break.

Quote :

"we COULD be directly setting up our own local governments"

Like Iraq? or any of those countries in Latin America we sent "consultants" to. Or the shah of Iran who the Iranians hated
so much that it gave fuel for the 1979 Islamic revolution.

You obviously no jack shit about history except for the patriotic edited version you received in 6th grade world history class.

Quote :

"you mean the same people who allowed themselves to be involved, directly and passively, in the worst atrocity of all of human history"

You mean Stalin who killed nearly 20 million during the great purges or our desecration of nearly the entire Native American population.

I'll agree we are by no means the worst but we are no Angels floating the banner of democracy, freedom, and peace around the world that many claim.

[Edited on December 21, 2007 at 12:37 PM. Reason : aa]

12/21/2007 12:36:14 PM

great quote bomb there, guy

i'm not responding to every nut-riding response you make

this is why I don't take Soap Box seriously

[Edited on December 21, 2007 at 1:03 PM. Reason : .]

12/21/2007 12:57:38 PM

I wonder what would happen if Palestinians up and declared independence in Israel?

12/21/2007 3:32:11 PM

ummmm

12/21/2007 3:36:36 PM

^^

i wouldn't be surprised if they've done that any number of times

12/21/2007 3:37:50 PM

Reservation Indians actually had it pretty good up until the 1950s. The Eisenhower administration decided that reservations had the potential to turn into communist communities in our own back yard and as such it needed to take steps to end reservation life and have Indians assimilated in normal American society. Google "termination policy" if you want to know more.

12/21/2007 3:40:18 PM

^ you've been watching Starship Troopers, huh?

12/21/2007 3:41:36 PM

Quote :

"have Indians assimilated in normal American society"

people have been trying to do this ever since the first europeans came to america...it started out as religious coversion b/c they thought them incapable of choosing the "correct" religion themselves....the first reservations in the 1800's were actually a way to keep all indians together where the could be easily monitored, while simulaneously being a propaganda tool: "look, the great and all knowing us government is giving you this land out of the kindness of our hearts", eventhough it was rarely land that they occupied originally.

Quote :

"Reservation Indians actually had it pretty good up until the 1950s."

where did you get this?

Quote :

"In 1851, the United States Congress passed the Indian Appropriations Act which authorized the creation of Native American reservations in modern day Oklahoma. Relations between settlers and natives had grown increasingly worse as the settlers encroached on territory and natural resources in the West. Grant pursued a stated "Peace Policy" as a possible solution to the conflict. The policy included a reorganization of the Indian Service, with the goal of relocating various tribes from their ancestral homes to parcels of lands established specifically for their inhabitation. The policy called for the replacement of government officials by religious men, nominated by churches, to oversee the Indian agencies on reservations in order to teach Christianity to the native tribes. The Quakers were especially active in this policy on reservations. The "civilization" policy was aimed at eventually preparing the tribes for citizenship. Reservation life has often been a blend of the traditional and the contemporary. In 1877, this Lakota family living at South Dakota's Rose Bud Agency had both teepees and log cabins.many cases, the lands granted to tribes were not ideal for, and in some cases resistant to agricultural cultivation, leaving many tribes who accepted the policy in a state bordering on starvation. "

it wasn't until new legislation passed in the early 1900's (i think the 30's) that reservation life was anything near respectable.

12/21/2007 3:59:24 PM

^ yeah they had "reservation" land until some white speculators found gold or had some other reasons for wanting the land. Then the calvary came in rounded up the Indians and shipped them somewhere else.

12/21/2007 4:06:54 PM

A map of the territory which they are claiming...yeah, that'll happen.

12/22/2007 3:52:43 PM

I think its funny that just because people once lived on land they think they "own" it.

True ownership, like everythign else in this world, an througout history is judged on your ability to defend it.

If you cant defned where you live, you dont own it, your barrowing it for a time until sombebody with a bigger stick comes over and takes it.

Thats hwo it works, dont kid yourself.

[Edited on December 22, 2007 at 5:16 PM. Reason : dd]

12/22/2007 5:11:37 PM

^ spell check and grammar check, buddy. jeez

Quote :

"we forcibly took africans from their homeland and made them and their children and their children's children work for us as slaves"

At least we let them LIVE, for crying out loud.

12/22/2007 9:52:19 PM

Quote :

"True ownership, like everythign else in this world, an througout history is judged on your ability to defend it."

hell yeah dude lets put our cowboy hats on grab our M4 and join Bush's war of neo-imperialism yeeehaawww.

Not to be another attempt at godwin's law but I guarantee Hitler felt the same thing in 1939. Maybe you should join the neo-nazi's so you can be closer the fuhrer in the coming of the 4th reich

[Edited on December 23, 2007 at 12:10 AM. Reason : l]

12/23/2007 12:08:18 AM

I suppose the non indigenous people of Australia should just head back to Britain then as well?

12/23/2007 12:11:39 AM

Quote :

"True ownership, like everythign else in this world, an througout history is judged on your ability to defend it. If you cant defned where you live, you dont own it, your barrowing it for a time until sombebody with a bigger stick comes over and takes it. "

Might does not make right. Take the war in Iraq as an example. If we wanted, we could bomb and nuke the shit out of them dirty towel-heads, and there isn't a damn thing they could do about it. That doesn't mean that the war is justified or that our actions there are morally defendible. The spoils may go to the victor, but that doesn't mean that the battle was necessary to begin with.

12/23/2007 1:18:31 AM

Quote :

"If we wanted, we could bomb and nuke the shit out of them dirty towel-heads, a"

well we've already bombed and invaded them i guess nuking in the next logical steps if those dirty towel heads don't shape it up.

12/23/2007 1:21:28 AM

Touche, but my point still stands.

12/23/2007 1:25:34 AM

Yes, but the reason why the war in iraq is failing is we are approachig it from a diplomatic way, which is frankly unnattural.

We are fighting for the wrong reasons. We did the Native Americans horrible, but we won beause we were committed to Total War.

If your unwilling to take that step then you will never win.

Point still stands, you dont own what you cant defend.

12/23/2007 2:35:38 AM

^ I think diplomacy in Iraq was off when we sen the Abram tanks across the Saudi border to topple Saddam.

but i'll bite since you think we are "soft" in Iraq. What the fuck whould you suggest. I mean we've already gone around wasting 1000's of innocent civilians. How are we going to create any kind of stable gov't in Iraq if we are going around blowing everything up as you suggest by taking a "harder" stance. I am sure this will make the insurgents so scared that they'll stop fighting against the american occupation. Also, I bet Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan all will not mind up going around obliterating people and building around Iraq.

You lack any kind of real understanding of how diplomacy or international politics. Let me guess you are in the marines or army and the only negotiation you understand is the barrel of your M-16

12/23/2007 11:51:31 AM

^ Don't turn this thread into a debate about the Iraq War. You're an idiot if you don't recognize what we're doing in Iraq versus the concept of a Total War.

12/23/2007 1:08:27 PM

No shit sherlock. Don't talk down to me fucking douche

12/23/2007 2:05:37 PM

Then don't give me a reason to?

12/23/2007 2:58:41 PM