BECAUSE WHEN WE GO TO ESPN.COM ON SUNDAY AFTERNOON, WHO WOULD WANT TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE REST OF THE NFL?

EVERYONE WOULD WANT TO SEE A MASSIVE SCORE OF A GAME EVERYONE ALREADY WATCHED POP UP INSTEAD OF THE SCORES OF THE GAMES GOING ON NOW!

12/30/2007 1:20:26 PM

pretty sure you just click nfl and the scores you desire will pop up right there

--

does anyone have an actual valid reason for hating the pats? you're a jets or dolphins fan? tom brady fucked your girlfriend? rodney harrison stole your stereo?

all i see so far is WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH WWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Edited on December 30, 2007 at 1:23 PM. Reason : ]

12/30/2007 1:22:17 PM

There's some individual players for the Patriots I have no problem with. Some of them appear to be complete jerks. Of course, you could say this for most teams in the NFL. They are well coached, execute well, and of course we all know that they've been caught cheating (again, they may not be the only team that's done this). I'm just sick of hearing about it all the time. It's like the game when Bruschi came back from being hurt. Even if he was 20 feet away from the tackle they found a way for him to have played a major part in it. That's the kind of stuff that makes me hate the team as a whole.

12/30/2007 1:24:23 PM

patriots overkill is a pretty good reason to hate espn, cbs, fox, nbc, and every other major news outlet, not the patriots

you aren't tired of them actually winning, you're just tired of hearing about them winning

take that up with espn & co., not the patriots

12/30/2007 1:26:23 PM

Quote :

"It's like the game when Bruschi came back from being hurt. Even if he was 20 feet away from the tackle they found a way for him to have played a major part in it. That's the kind of stuff that makes me hate the team as a whole."

that had nothing to do with the patriots

it was a great fucking story

and if you've ever watched a game with a major player coming back from a serious injury, you would know that it wasnt the first time its been done and it certainly wont be the last

12/30/2007 1:36:01 PM

I hate UNC for obvious reasons.

I hate a few other teams because of their douchebag fans (Patriots, Tennessee, Boston College, etc.)

12/30/2007 1:36:22 PM

Quote :

"And as far as the "breaking the rules, they used cameras" bullshit, it has no affect on the season. There is reason to believe all teams do it, and your kidding yourself if you think the pats are the only team that has thought of doing this. I remember watching a college football game not long ago and the coach was signaling plays behind a wall over players and two of them holding up a towell to block the signals. Why do you think he was doing that? Perhaps because the other team was trying to steal them? I doubt he wanted to use his players as a human wall just to get their worth in scholarship money out of them. The whole they are cheaters thing isn't like steriods in any way. One directly helps someone, the other didn't help the team in anyway this season."

Where is the fucking proof that "all teams do it"? The Patriots broke the rules and got caught. They cheated. End of fucking discussion. You have no fucking proof that all teams do what the Patriots did. None.

Would they have gone 16-0 without the whole Spygate thing? Yeah, probably so. But go ahead and bury your head in the sand. What they did gave them an unfair advantage. That is a fucking fact. Show me proof that the Cardinals, Lions, 49ers, etc. did the same thing. PROVE IT.

And if "every team does it" why aren't teams getting busted left and right? Maybe it's not as widespread as you claim it to be? Again, you have no goddamn proof that every team in the NFL employs the same tactics.

Just because you said it's true does not make it so. If you are going to claim that every team in the NFL uses illegal taping tactics, you have to back that shit up.

To sit there and say the Patriots did not cheat is a motherfucking lie.

[Edited on December 30, 2007 at 2:44 PM. Reason : foo]

12/30/2007 2:43:27 PM

Barry Bond's steroid use is no big deal because Hank Aaron probably used steroids too.

amirite?

12/30/2007 2:51:46 PM

^^^ oh shit! so smooth!

12/30/2007 3:00:42 PM

^^^The reason that a lot of people say that "all teams do it" is because all teams do do it, just in a legal way. What the Patriots did was use a camera on the sidelines, which is illegal. Yes, it's illegal, yes, it's cheating, and they paid a penalty for that.

What all teams do, however, is use other cameras in the stadium to do the same thing, which is perfectly legal to do. No, I don't have proof of this, because I don't work for the NFL, nor do I have intimate knowledge of the NFL rulebook. But I do recall that after "Spygate," the talking heads on ESPN and other media outlets made it very clear that the Patriots were being fined for using a sideline camera, and that using a camera elsewhere in the stadium is not only legal, but a tactic used by all 32 NFL teams.

Maybe someone with more time on their hands can look this up and confirm it, but I'm just telling you what John Clayton and Chris Mortensen et al said a few months ago.

12/30/2007 3:27:44 PM

Quote :

"it was a great fucking story"

Don't get me wrong, I think it shows guts to come back and play. After a point, though, I'd just rather hear about the person that actually got the tackle for a second than someone that had nothing to do with the play.

It's all of those little things that just come together to create the perfect storm of hate. Twenty years from now it will probably be the same thing for another team.

12/30/2007 3:34:19 PM

After the incident I listened to several interviews of players/coaches talking about the various "cheating" type things that they did. According to multiple interviews, it can be safe to assume all teams have tried to do something along the lines of the patriots. You think they were the only team to have this idea? There were stories of offensive and defensive linemen wearing mic's to get the line calls, cameras in different places, etc. It wasn't what they did, but more the fact that they used technology to do it. Signal stealing is a part of the game, it is also why teams change their calls year to year and week to week and even at halftime.

You are the one with your head in the sand if you think that out of 32 teams, only one has ever done the type of cheating the patriots did. I can't believe that it is even compared to steriods in baseball.

12/30/2007 3:37:56 PM

I'm talking about the illegal use of cameras. There is a huge difference between legal use and illegal use. You can't say "well the Patriots may have used illegal camera practices, but everyone uses cameras so it's no big deal."

The Patriots used illegal practices to gain an advantage. People who dismiss it claim that all teams use the same illegal practices. THAT HAS NOT BEEN FUCKING PROVEN. No matter what some cocksmoker said on TV, radio, etc. Again, if you are going to claim that all NFL teams use cameras illegally, YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT. If everyone else is doing it, why aren't teams getting caught? Are the Patriots just sloppy?????

Keep defending their cheating by making a baseless claim about other teams that you can't prove. You haven't proven a goddamn thing.

[Edited on December 30, 2007 at 3:46 PM. Reason : assume my ass; that doesn't make it true]

12/30/2007 3:46:03 PM

You are confusing two separate things: just because a team uses a camera illegally doesn't mean they gain an advantage from it.

12/30/2007 3:48:05 PM

of course they would or they wouldnt be doing it

12/30/2007 3:57:38 PM

What will be interesting to see is whether or not the rule is changed. I'm just assuming here, but stay with me: The rule against sideline cameras was probably put in place during a time when sideline cameras had a significant advantage over cameras at the top of the stadium. That's obviously not true anymore; we have HD cameras now that can count blades of grass from the overhead blimp. So I don't know that there is really an advantage to having a camera illegally on the sidelines any more than anywhere else in the stadium.

Seems to me the logical thing to do would be to outlaw taping of signals from everywhere, but this might be hard to enforce. Like I said, it will interesting to see if this comes up at the offseason owner's meetings.

12/30/2007 3:59:48 PM

but arent the cameras at the top of the stadium run by the NFL? or at least regulated by them (home team might actually physically hold the cameras) so everyone gets the same views?

12/30/2007 4:02:00 PM

you are missing the point. I have never said that they didn't cheat, nor that it wasn't wrong. I just don't think it is relevant in anyway since it didn't help them at all this season. If you think it taints their past then that is fine, but I just find it funny to make such a big deal over this camera thing. To me it just isn't an issue. If the entire team was caught with bottles of steriods it would be a different story.

If you want your proof that is fine. I'm glad your that optimistic about sports that you think nobody else in the nfl does anything illegal, just the patriots. I on the other hand are realistic, I am going to assume that in a sports teams will usually try to get an advantage, when jobs, and millions of dollars are on the line, the penalties rarely outweight the advantage so people do it. If you have ever been around the game of football you know the lengths coaches go to win, especially when it comes to the use of film.

So if you really think the Patriots are the only team who ever thought of using technology in some way to gain an advantage then I wish I shared your idealism in the purity of the sport. And these idiots on tv you dismiss are former players and coaches who were talking about doing these types of things.

12/30/2007 4:19:47 PM

Aayoo
I'm tired of using technology

12/30/2007 4:32:55 PM

Quote :

"I have never said that they didn't cheat, nor that it wasn't wrong."

Then why did you try to deny it when someone else brought it up on the first page? That poster said "cheaters" then you went and tried to play it off by saying every other team does it as well.

Quote :

"If you want your proof that is fine. I'm glad your that optimistic about sports that you think nobody else in the nfl does anything illegal, just the patriots. I on the other hand are realistic, I am going to assume that in a sports teams will usually try to get an advantage, when jobs, and millions of dollars are on the line, the penalties rarely outweight the advantage so people do it. If you have ever been around the game of football you know the lengths coaches go to win, especially when it comes to the use of film."

So asking for proof to a claim you and others made makes me some kind of starry eyed, naive optimist? Fact remains, you and others cannot claim that other teams did the same illegal practices without any proof. That has nothing to do with being optimistic or idealistic. If you're going to stick the cheating label on every team, you're gonna have to prove it. Why are we to believe that all teams are using underhanded tactics? Simply because you or some guy on TV said so? Or that it is somehow inherent to the game?

Quote :

"So if you really think the Patriots are the only team who ever thought of using technology in some way to gain an advantage then I wish I shared your idealism in the purity of the sport. And these idiots on tv you dismiss are former players and coaches who were talking about doing these types of things."

What I do know is that the Patriots were caught cheating and were penalized. That is a fact. The belief that every other team in the NFL does the same is not a fact, because it has not been proven. I am under no obligation to believe otherwise. I go by the facts, not some silly ass implication.

It all boils down to this:

Patriots broke the rules and cheated: Fact
"Every other team does the same thing": Not a fact

[Edited on December 30, 2007 at 4:54 PM. Reason : .]

12/30/2007 4:51:35 PM

how did the cheating help them THIS year?

12/30/2007 5:03:38 PM

I don't think LDT's TD record last year should stand. They had a cheater on the team whose defense gave the ball back to San Diego to give him more chances..

FACT: SD cheated
NOT A FACT: Every other team cheated

*** btw, didnt the entire Super Bowl Panthers team juice up?

[Edited on December 30, 2007 at 5:07 PM. Reason : x]

12/30/2007 5:06:08 PM

I'm not sure if ^ and ^^ are directed at me, but:

Did it give them (the Pats) an advantage? Yeah, it did. Now whether that advantage was the difference in that game is up for debate. But to try and write the "cheaters" claim off because the belief that all other teams do it is ridiculous.

I would have said the same thing if those Panther/Charger teams had won it all. Nice try at your usual trolling, though.

Why are the Pats hated? Simple, because they are winning. Lots of folks hated: the 80s 49ers, the 90s Cowboys, the Showtime Lakers, the 90s Bulls, Manchester United, etc. Why? Because they won all the time. Now it's the Pats turn. It will be someone else next time. Is that silly reason to hate a team? Yeah, it is, but that's how it is.

[Edited on December 30, 2007 at 5:15 PM. Reason : .]

12/30/2007 5:13:29 PM

i get the hate, but i'd rather see them do something neat than hate them.

12/30/2007 5:49:47 PM

Quote :

"*** btw, didnt the entire Super Bowl Panthers team juice up?"

I think it was 2-3 linemen and the punter.

But that cancels out because Rodney Harrison was juicing up at that point also.

12/30/2007 6:00:21 PM

and every other player in the nfl. let's be honest.

12/30/2007 6:05:47 PM

I am not going to continue to argue over the whole proof thing. In the end the whole camera incident just isn't a big deal to me, I don't think it helped them this year in anyway, I don't feel that it gave them any advantage. To me there is a different between cheating, and being labled a cheater.

I don't like the patriots, but it will never be because of the whole spygate thing.

12/30/2007 7:26:41 PM

the difference between spygate and roidgate is that with the pats the cheating was at the organizational level, not just one or a few guys doing it on their own accord.

12/30/2007 9:05:13 PM

The camera incident just gives all the Pats haters an official reason to hate them because the real reason is they're just mad there's one team dominating in a league that is set up to have parity.

It was officially cheating, nobody is debating that. But I'm pretty sure having a camera on a sideline is the exact same as having a camera in the press box... get over it.

12/30/2007 9:12:17 PM

you bring up a good point oeuvre

by your logic why should we hate duke that bad? they aren't our rival and never have been. they are simply instate and that's it.

and they dominated mens basketball for a decade

12/30/2007 9:24:31 PM

Quote :

"It was officially cheating, nobody is debating that. But I'm pretty sure having a camera on a sideline is the exact same as having a camera in the press box... get over it."

What? You admit that it is cheating, but then you blow it off as though it is no big deal. Let's just throw out the entire goddamn rule book while we're at it. Calling the Patriots cheaters is true. You may not like it, but it is true. The question of whether it helped them win is irrelevant. Broke the rules. PERIOD.

And fuck off with this "get over it" shit. Get over what? The fact that a team broke the written rules of the NFL in an attempt to gain an advantage?

Rule book:

Quote :

"The "Game Operations Manual" states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." The manual states that "all video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.""

[Edited on December 30, 2007 at 9:33 PM. Reason : ..]

12/30/2007 9:26:57 PM

You're so pissed off about it like the NFL okay'ed it and said there was nothing wrong with it. The opinions of people like me that have said "get over it" don't mean jack shit because they're opinions of fans, not the league.

The NFL made an effort to punish them, but it obviously wasn't enough for you. What did you expect? For them to be banned from the league the rest of the season and all previous Super Bowls stripped? That's what I mean by "get over it." They did it and they were punished... I don't understand why its still a big deal.

12/30/2007 9:39:44 PM

I am a Pats fan.

They did cheat in this year's first game. It was indeed wrong and they absolutely deserved punishment.

But is there any other source? They have been nothing but courteous in all the post game interviews (coach, Brady, Moss). I haven't heard of any personal controversies going on. Is there any other source for the hate? Or is just because they're the best?

12/30/2007 9:40:39 PM

Quote :

"You're so pissed off about it like the NFL okay'ed it and said there was nothing wrong with it. The opinions of people like me that have said "get over it" don't mean jack shit because they're opinions of fans, not the league."

I never said anything like that at all. The league penalized the team as they saw fit. I have no problem with the punishment that was used. I'm just sick and tired of anytime someone mentions that the Patriots broke the rules, it's met by some schmuck claiming either 1)every other team does it or 2)You're just a Patriots hater that's jealous of their recent record.

Making the point(s) that the Patriots broke the rules and that they are one hell of a good football team is not mutually exclusive.

12/30/2007 9:53:32 PM

I liked this post on the Sports Law Blog

Quote :

"what makes the Patriots behavior particularly reprehensible is not the underlying action (covert videotaping), since many other teams apparently do the same thing and it's unclear to what extent the videotapes are beneficial to the culprits; what makes it reprehensible is to disregard league warnings, perhaps repeated warnings, to stop doing it. That's why this issue really isn't about the Patriots "cheating," but rather about them being arrogant/disrespectful toward the league."

and this part

Quote :

"...why the videotaping rule never made its way into the official rulebook, but instead into the (arguably) less authoritative "Game Operations Manual," which also regulates such momentous events as how many towels and soft drinks to provide visiting teams."

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2007/09/professor-alfred-yen-on-nfls-punishment.html

12/30/2007 9:53:44 PM

I hate bill belichek the most, bruschi 2nd, and harrison 3rd


Everyone else on the team (including brady) I don't really have a problem with

12/30/2007 10:26:23 PM

the patriots are the goodguys of the NFL (just like the cowboys used to be) donned in red white and blue.... the only thing is they're really the BAD guys. I personally hate them because i'm a very bitter Raider fan who broke my time warner remote during the "tuck rule" game in the snow. (i still say it was a fumble) Besides that calls ALWAYS seem to go the Patriots' way one way or another. There was the whole cheating scandal. And as everyone knows, they get more media exposure and kiss assing than ANY sports team i've ever seen in my life. There have got to be sports writers just sitting around w/ lingering deadlines about stories they could really care less about and choose instead to just slap together another Brady sequal. Brady this......Brady that.... which game comes on at 4? The Patriots AGAIN?... who gives a fuck? I DONT. The team is good and Tom Brady is a solid QB but not everyone cares what goes on at foxboro every fucking sunday. We live on the east coast so we watch games that feature baltimore, new england, jax, carolina, pittsburgh etc. I get it... Some of us want to watch the panthers suck....others might be Philly fans... some Indy fans but NE is #1 so that's the soup of the day. As someone already pointed out there are many bandwagon fans that don't know a slant from a screen. You'll find these ppl in any sport when a team catches fire (hello, carolina hurricanes?) They're just fuckin funny to me because this batch loves their Red Sox and Patriots but won't show up to support Boston College. (or any college up north) They trickle down to the south and come to school here w/ their backwards Sox hats. Then we get to hear how AWESOME it is to be from up north!

12/31/2007 12:42:59 AM

don't call me a schmuck because I know sports, the mindset of coaches, and know that other teams do things similar to what the Patriots did. calling someone a name because of their opinion is a great way to back up your arguement. i am sick of people like you who continue to drudge up this camera incident, and have continued to cry about it this entire year when A) it hasn't helped them this season at all and B) they have already been punished by a league, and life has gone on.

^^ once again another source talking about other teams doing it. If teams weren't doing what the Patriots were doing why would the league make these rules and send out letters to all the teams over and over reminding them not to do it? If you are this mad over the Patriots using cameras, I can only assume that your head nearly exploded in anger when you found out about all the players using steriods in baseball, something I feel is a much worse form of cheating.

12/31/2007 1:06:27 AM

i don't like them because of three main things, not in any particular order

1- Brady is a douche, he knocked up a model, got a new girlfriend. Douchebaggery.

2- Coach is a douche, he was found cheating. What he was doing I would actually call strategy and getting to know your opponent, but cheating is douche baggery in any case.

3- Running up the score. No, not because it hurts the other team's feelings, they need to play like they get paid for it, but because it is breaking records. True, records are just that, the greatest players at some aspect of the game. However, getting a record by throwing 50+ touchdowns against teams like the 1-13 Dolphins while playing your starting quarterback up until the 2 minute warning is just exploiting, more I'd say. Its not supporting smart playing, such as running down the clock with running plays in the late part of the game or taking a knee and killing the clock. Its supporting the 'me me me' aspect of the game of padding the record books with stupid play calling.

And that's all I have to say about that.

12/31/2007 2:51:37 AM

the cheating was so blatant though. i read an article a few weeks back about how the pats knew exactly what plays were being run by the opposing teams, presumably from things such as the videos. if it is no big thing, then why havent other teams been busted for it? I would hate to think that the taping had a hand in all those super bowls, but it seems like it may have. This is something that they have been getting away with for more than a season, and if it were ever discovered that they won super bowls while cheating, many many many people would be soured off of the NFL quite a bit. Why did they destroy those tapes again?

12/31/2007 2:56:01 AM

Quote :

"Running up the score. No, not because it hurts the other team's feelings, they need to play like they get paid for it, but because it is breaking records. True, records are just that, the greatest players at some aspect of the game. However, getting a record by throwing 50+ touchdowns against teams like the 1-13 Dolphins while playing your starting quarterback up until the 2 minute warning is just exploiting, more I'd say. Its not supporting smart playing, such as running down the clock with running plays in the late part of the game or taking a knee and killing the clock. Its supporting the 'me me me' aspect of the game of padding the record books with stupid play calling."

this is a BIG ONE for me as well. i mean come on, 4th down inside the 20 but outside the ten, up by 30 and they go for it? I don't care how you spin it, "the other team is getting paid to play defense, they should just stop them," or Belichik's logic-"I want to give them a chance to stop us rather than put points on the board with a field goal," that is fucking CLASSLESS. you don't see other teams with big leads doing this, are they all just pussies or whatever? Belichik takes us all for fools with comments like that, fuck him and the patriots. shit, teams don't often go for it on fourth down in that situation in a regular game, much less being up by 30...

[Edited on December 31, 2007 at 3:11 AM. Reason : mlknm]

12/31/2007 3:08:55 AM

^^ post the article please

12/31/2007 10:06:35 AM

Was it the multiple eagles that said it was ridiculous how well prepared the pats were for every single play? Like nothing they'd seen before? Like screen passes at odd times were sniffed out with no problem, and the pats were ready for them every time like no other team had been all year. Must have just been ted bruschi's awesomeness.

12/31/2007 11:31:49 AM

or the eagles' suckiness

12/31/2007 1:10:03 PM

It's the smug, arrogant, holier than thou attitude oozing from practically every prominent player and coach in the organization that makes people hate the Patriots. Contrast that with Peyton Manning, for example, who comes across as remarkably humble.

12/31/2007 1:21:49 PM

Quote :

"Why does it matter that their coach is an ass? His job isn't to be a nice person it is to coach a team."

It doesn't matter, he can be whatever he wants to be, but it's easy to dislike him. And yes Tom Brady is a douche. Brady always reminds me of Matt Damon in The Departed. The obnoxiously, fake seeming, nice, let's go get'em douche bag type of guy.

12/31/2007 1:43:01 PM

Quote :

"by your logic why should we hate duke that bad? they aren't our rival and never have been. they are simply instate and that's it. and they dominated mens basketball for a decade"

i don't hate duke any more than any other team we play every year, tbh.

12/31/2007 3:32:03 PM

i do. but not nearly as much as unc. most of the duke hate has to do with the fact that they're the closest decent basketball team to ncsu. there's a natural rivalry there even if it's not as intense as the unc rivalry.

[Edited on December 31, 2007 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

12/31/2007 3:34:46 PM

i don't take stocks in all of these "rivalries". i hate carolina. maybe it's a rivalry, maybe they don't care about us. i don't care.

every game is termed as some sort of rivalry or another, the word means nothing.

12/31/2007 3:35:52 PM

^^^^^^^ so now you are implying that they somehow hacked into the Eagles communications to get their plays? The signals that were taped were defensive signals, offensive plays are sent in through the helmet mic.

[Edited on December 31, 2007 at 3:36 PM. Reason : needed more ^.]

12/31/2007 3:36:16 PM