they have war ships?

oh and 2

1/7/2008 5:31:46 PM

This story is still pretty thin. Breaking news: iranian and us ships looked at each other funny.

1/7/2008 6:09:30 PM

No, the Iranian ships rushed American ships. They got within a few hundred yards. And they supposedly threw boxes in the water.

1/7/2008 6:12:43 PM

^According to the Pentagon.

1/7/2008 7:12:48 PM

well the pentagon also said that Saddam had WMDs and was collaborating with Osama Bin Laden.

The DoD has lost all credibility in my book.

1/7/2008 9:27:37 PM

haha, therefore, nothing the US ever says is ever true.


Why do you people live here if we're so evil?

1/7/2008 9:28:28 PM

YOU PEOPLE

GIT OUT

1/7/2008 10:08:48 PM

^^ opportunity cost to go somewhere else.

Also with my degree and intelligence i can work the system in my favor to benefit my life off the ignorance and hard labor of the masses.

Let's not forgot that one of the fundamental themes of our country was the ability to criticize the government. Maybe if people wake up we can turn the tide before our federal gov't poops to much more on the constitution.

[Edited on January 8, 2008 at 12:49 PM. Reason : a]

1/8/2008 12:48:26 PM

You *can* criticize the government, but if you *do* criticize the government you're a terrorist-loving un-american faggot.

1/8/2008 12:49:39 PM

Quote :

"The DoD has lost all credibility in my book."

Don't confuse the DoD as a whole with this administration.

Quote :

"haha, therefore, nothing the US ever says is ever true. Why do you people live here if we're so evil?"

Because while we may not agree with the execution of government at times, we still believe in the fundamental principles of liberty as set forth in the Consitution. I can assure you, sir, that questioning the government, especially a warmongering government such as this one (yes, I said warmongering and I meant it, I don't use that word lightly) is not the same as hating what makes the United States what it is. "We the People", not "We the Government."

Quote :

"Also with my degree and intelligence"

*insert snarky comment here*

1/8/2008 1:45:03 PM

Quote :

"Because while we may not agree with the execution of government at times, we still believe in the fundamental principles of liberty as set forth in the Consitution. I can assure you, sir, that questioning the government, especially a warmongering government such as this one"

[/thread]

1/8/2008 1:47:06 PM

Quote :

"haha, therefore, nothing the US ever says is ever true. Why do you people live here if we're so evil?"

so is ignorance a requirement to live here now?

1/8/2008 1:53:24 PM

Quote :

"Why do you people live here if we're so evil?"

What other options do we have? Anarres is far away.

1/8/2008 1:56:33 PM

Quote :

"Video released by Pentagon shows Iranian boats confronting U.S. warships..."

No internet link yet



UH OH TONKIN GULF WHAT WHAT?

1/8/2008 4:25:15 PM

radio transmission from the Iranian fast boats:

Quote :

"We are coming for you. You will explode in a minute"

So every single one of you American hating motherfuckers need to shut the fuck up.

1/8/2008 6:24:33 PM

I want to know what fire control officer waited until hostile fast boats were within 200 yards of their ship. Thats waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to close

1/8/2008 6:27:25 PM

there is a video out of it.

You can hear the alarm for the guys to get to their guns.

1/8/2008 6:31:36 PM

Because had he fired on the boats, bitches like you would've been screaming TONKIN TONKIN OMG AMERICAN IMPRERIALSTS BUSH IS THE DEVIL



The guy warned them that they would be fired on if they didn't turn



This is clearly provocative and Iran is asking for it.

[Edited on January 8, 2008 at 6:32 PM. Reason : .]

1/8/2008 6:32:18 PM

This wouldnt have happened if they would have had healthcare. fyi

1/8/2008 6:40:46 PM

Quote :

"So every single one of you American hating motherfuckers need to shut the fuck up. "

Clearly anyone who would prefer us to not engage in open armed conflict with Iran that would cost the tax payer billions and cost many military personal their lives is unamerican. They probably support the terrorist and should be thrown in Gitmo.

Conquering Iran shows the rest of the world USA #1

[Edited on January 8, 2008 at 7:00 PM. Reason : l]

1/8/2008 6:58:30 PM

So had they bombed our ships... just forget it?

1/8/2008 7:06:50 PM

terrorists trying to start a conflict with Iran?

1/8/2008 7:38:15 PM

these were iranian naval vessels...

1/8/2008 7:39:33 PM

hitler wasn't crazy. He was stupid.

you don't fight America and Russia at the same time. You get America and Russia to fight each other.

1/8/2008 7:44:07 PM

paging 1938?

1/8/2008 7:45:03 PM

What does this have to do with 1938?

1/8/2008 7:46:48 PM

I just saw the extremist ouvre posting here so i thought i'd remind him of what happens when the population behaves like him.

1/8/2008 8:26:08 PM

Quote :

"So had they bombed our ships... just forget it?"

Did Iran bomb our ships???


NO, SO STFU

1/8/2008 8:44:09 PM

where is the video?

1/8/2008 9:03:27 PM

Here is the provocation:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/08/world/main3686138.shtml

Here's a previous CNN report for context:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lHFpytVt_KQ

I hope some of you like the way that crow tastes.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 12:19 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 12:15:31 AM

Okay I've read through this thread, good arguments presented by both sides.


BUT ITS MOTHER FUCKING "GULF OF TONKIN" NOT FUCKING TONKIN GULF


That was mostly for Oeuvre who can't seem to differentiate. Now that we're clear on that nobody really has any clue what happened here. I think its a good idea to ask what exactly we were doing that close to the Iranian coastline. Thanks to HUR for putting that in perspective. We're never going to know why we were there, you like to think there was a good reason but its tough...with that said. I think that things like this happen alot more then we think, this one made the news just b/c its Iran.

1/9/2008 1:00:55 AM

Quote :

"I think that things like this happen alot more then we think, this one made the news just b/c its Iran an election year."

1/9/2008 1:07:13 AM

Many of you need to stop worrying about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, which was perpetrated by Democrats, and concern yourselves with the Strait of Hormuz, which is where this incident happened.

^^
1. I hate to break it to you but the U.S. warships at issue were in international waters. They have just as much of a right to be there as the vessels of any other nation.

2. IT'S THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ!!!1 IT'S A NARROW PASSAGE!!!1 *Sigh* Just watch this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lHFpytVt_KQ

The U.S. Navy showed incredible restraint in the face of this provocation.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:17 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 1:10:15 AM

^^^
- It's very clear what happened. They were probing out defenses and looking for weakness and gathering intelligence on our response. Similar types of activities used to happen all the time during the cold war with the soviet navy.
- Why were we close to Iran? First of all, the strait is pretty narrow. Second of all, it's not hard to imagine several plausible and justifiable defense reasons. Let's not pretend that we are buddies with Iran. If a bunch of guided missile ships are near the coast of Iran, they are obviously there just incase we need to attack them.
- That video is hilarious and makes us look like pussies. These guys are doing donuts and spitting nonsense at us and we are freaking out. Their speed boats were clearly not attack craft, and they might as well have been mocking us to our faces. The bomb threat part of this story is inflated US spin.

^Actually, they did the smart thing. Don't want to give out tactical information by biting on a feint. They aren't quite the "foamies" as some people are.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:26 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 1:19:19 AM

so I hope we do not mind if N. Korea decides to swim its destroyers through the panama canal and approach within 20 miles of Florida on its way to go chill in some port in Cuba.

I mean its international waters!!

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:21 AM. Reason : l]

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:21 AM. Reason : ;]

1/9/2008 1:19:29 AM

Quote :

"That video is hilarious and makes us look like pussies. These guys are doing donuts and spitting nonsense at us and we are freaking out. Their speed boats were clearly not attack craft, and they might as well have been mocking us to our faces."

well i can hop in my car and do donuts in front of the police station and call the cops pussies. That does not mean they can pull out their 9mm and shoot me.

1/9/2008 1:22:42 AM

^If you want to be pedantic about it, what cops can do on US soil is different than what the navy can do on international waters. What they *should* do is a different story.

1/9/2008 1:25:31 AM

^^^^ The loss of 17 sailors and injury to another 39 sailors and the damage to USS Cole was not caused by an "attack craft."

1/9/2008 1:30:21 AM

^And here come the specious comparisons. That kind of argument might convince someone a 10th your age or half your intellectual maturity.

1/9/2008 1:37:11 AM

^ Your retort is meaningless. Specious? It's nothing of the sort.

1. USS Cole: a warship attacked quite successfully--unfortunately--by a small craft while in harbor. The warship had done nothing to provoke the attack.

2. Strait of Hormuz incident: warships provoked by several small craft while lawfully operating in international waters. The warships had done nothing to provoke the harassment and threats.

But I guess it's cool to blame America first--that's what all the cool kids are doing.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:51 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 1:40:57 AM

Sigh.

1/9/2008 1:41:43 AM

fractions too hard for you?

1/9/2008 1:46:12 AM

^ Is reality too hard for you?

1/9/2008 1:51:45 AM

I'd like to see the similarities spelled out other than the fact that both involved small craft please.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 2:01 AM. Reason : adsfasd]

1/9/2008 2:00:55 AM

^^

Quote :

"1. USS Cole: a warship attacked quite successfully--unfortunately--by a small craft while in harbor. The warship had done nothing to provoke the attack. 2. Strait of Hormuz incident: warships provoked by several small craft while lawfully operating in international waters. The warships had done nothing to provoke the harassment and threats."

These are called superficial similarities. They are what make your argument specious. Thanks for pointing them out for me.

The fundamental difference is that one was a covert attack and the other was an obvious feint. If the iranians wanted to carry out a covert attack on a destroyer in open waters today, it would have looked very different from what happened recently. It should go without saying that the cole attack would not work in open waters. I don't expect someone so ignorant to recognize the difference, though. Rest assured, however, that the professionals were in control of the situation.

We are just trying to get some PR milage out of this because Iran sure as hell is going to get some milage out of their revolutionary guard doing donuts 200 yards away from a destroyer.

Quote :

"But I guess it's cool to blame America first--that's what all the cool kids are doing. "

You copied and pasted the wrong response this time, hookbot, as I assigned no blame to the US in any of my posts.


[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 2:21 AM. Reason : nice]

1/9/2008 2:12:38 AM

Quote :

"The fundamental difference is that one was a covert attack and the other was an obvious feint."

Flapjack

And? Keep living on Fantasy Island--I'm sure that all the vessels in its surrounding waters play nice. Meantime, in the real world, boats of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard--a terrorist organization--are provoking and threatening U.S. warships in international waters, which is a violation of international law.

And for the love of God, can you stop posting the word "feint"?

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 2:37 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 2:31:03 AM

Hey, here's an idea. How 'bout you guys just let the Navy worry about it, ok?

1/9/2008 6:42:10 AM

Quote :

"so I hope we do not mind if N. Korea decides to swim its destroyers through the panama canal and approach within 20 miles of Florida on its way to go chill in some port in Cuba. I mean its international waters!!"

Is is OK if they threaten to fire a nuke at Miami while they're passing by?

"We are coming for you. You will explode in a minute"

Quote :

"Their speed boats were clearly not attack craft"

Any craft can be an attack craft.

Quote :

"The fundamental difference is that one was a covert attack and the other was an obvious feint."

The fundamental difference is that when nothing happens you can always go back with 20/20 vision and claim the situation was nothing more than a ruse. I wonder how obvious these things are to the people that are actually living the experience?

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 7:50 AM. Reason : -]

1/9/2008 7:47:33 AM

^ Thanks for the dose of common sense that this thread needed.


It's only a "non-attack vehicle" because there wasn't a hole in the side of one of our ships. When they radio over "WE'RE COMING FOR YOU. YOU WILL EXPLODE IN A MINUTE" HOW IN GOD'S EARTH IS THIS POSSIBLY AMERICA'S FAULT?

1/9/2008 8:30:31 AM

Lowjack, you're wrong here. And this involves me agreeing with hooksaw, so don't take it lightly. But any ship, no matter how large could potentially be a threat to US warships. The USS Cole is relevant because it shows the damage that a small vessel can cause. It doesn't matter if the boat was in port or if it was in international waters, it's still a potential danger to our ships.

Saying that, our ships made the correct move in not opening fire. Obviously, the danger of attack from a boat like that to our warships is from an extremely close distance, so we had that on our side, but you don't want these ships to get too close. 200 yards is probably the closest they could get before our guns rip them apart.

Sure our ships are in international waters near Iran, but that's how it's been for awhile now. If the US did not maintain a sizeable presence in this area of the world, piracy would be much more common, kind of like in the Red Sea. The protection of this area of the world is vital to the world economy and until Iran can muster up more than 5 ocean-faring speedboats, they need to get used to us being there. They're entire navy isn't even a match for our Coast Guard.

I hope you all realize that I am clearly anti-war with Iran, but this was obviously a provocation by them. It's kind of like poking a grizzly bear with a 50-foot stick from inside your car to see if he'll wake up. Luckily the bear is still asleep.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 8:39 AM. Reason : ]

1/9/2008 8:37:13 AM