Quote :

"EarthDogg: This is your future Prez looking like he's waiting for a bus, while the National Anthem is being played....His lack of showing any traditional respect for the country may be a minor thing but still is annoying to me.[/user] roguewolf: eh. you know how many people don't put their hands on their heart? " EarthDogg: A lot. But I want my president to show some respect for the country he leads. This is disgraceful."

hey, EarthDogg, i thought you were a libertarian. i didnt realize you were a flag waving nationalist.

i don't put my hand on my heart for the national anthem. why should i? the national anthem is played at every baseball game and monster truck rally and county fair hog queen coronation. big fucking deal.

Look, during Gulf I, when I wore the uniform of the US Navy, I saluted the flag every morning for Reville and every evening for Taps. If I heard taps while driving in a car, I'd stop and get out and stand on the side of the road. it often choked me up, for no apparent reason.

but putting my hand on my heart for the National Anthem? big deal. the anthem is meaningless. look at it's history and how it was created.

im not going to pretend some false piety just to please you. and i dont expect anyone else to, if they don't care to.

and hey guess what? when someone gives a prayer to Jesus, I don't close my eyes. I just stand there quietly and look around to see who else is looking around. Oh Shit! call homeland security







[Edited on January 28, 2008 at 12:37 AM. Reason : ]

1/28/2008 12:32:01 AM

what how?

how it something disgraceful if the practice has only been around for 60 years? i mean seriously, as long as people are paying their own respects why is that so bad?

but thats not even the point. the point is people have made a big deal from one picture.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

this is just as bad as his removing his American flag pin fiasco. come on. people are different.

1/28/2008 12:37:58 AM

Quote :

"the point is people have made a big deal from one picture."

Obama is very aware of the importance of symbolism. He loves to give inspirational speeches. Some have even accused him of being more fluff than substance.

If he wants to be president, he'd better improve showing the voters that he supports tradition and protocal. You may not care to show it, but there are a lot of Americans who relish the chance to display their love of country.

Quote :

"i thought you were a libertarian"

You know libertarians sing the national anthem too. It may shock you but I know all the words ...and the story behind it. We aren't all anarchists.

1/28/2008 1:38:24 AM

Quote :

"The more loyalty oaths a person signed, the more loyal he was; to Captain Black it was as simple as that, and he had Corporal Kolodny sign hundreds with his name each day so that he could always prove he was more loyal than anyone else."

1/28/2008 9:27:22 AM

^ nice

1/28/2008 9:33:20 AM

Quote :

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. --Samuel Johnson"

1/29/2008 4:09:19 PM

Quote :

"But I want my president to show some respect for the country he leads. This is disgraceful."

holy. shit.
I just listened to the video in the Snopes post. Did you hear whoever that was singing butchering the anthem? Now that was disgraceful. Jesus, if i had heard someone singing the National Anthem like that, I would have thrown a shoe at her. We're lucky any of them had their hands over their hearts and not over their ears instead.

1/29/2008 4:48:05 PM

Quote :

""Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. --Samuel Johnson""

So everyone who shows respect for the country is a scoundrel? I dare Obama to include this quote on the campaign trail. Double Dog Dare!

1/29/2008 6:11:17 PM

Hand over heart during the national anthem != showing respect for anything. Hell, I admire Obama more for standing up to ignorance instead of doing something because the rest of the sheep are doing it.

1/29/2008 8:06:53 PM

Quote :

"erfDawg: So everyone who shows respect for the country is a scoundrel?"

yeah, yeah, i know .... those inductive fallacies are such a bitch






[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 8:11 PM. Reason : ]

1/29/2008 8:08:26 PM

You aren't supposed to put your hand on your heart. This is some bullshit creation.

1/29/2008 8:56:57 PM

does anybody else perceive there to be a bias in the media toward obama over clinton?

for example on cnn.com the front page says

Quote :

" Obama SC, IA 63 Clinton FL, NV, MI, NH 48"

and not till you go to the election section do you see all the pledged delegates

Quote :

"Clinton 232 Obama 158"

[Edited on January 30, 2008 at 11:52 AM. Reason : and nobody cared that he only got 25% of the white vote in SC. they just said he WON BIG]

[Edited on January 30, 2008 at 11:53 AM. Reason : or that he lost big in FL. FL suddenly doesn't count]

1/30/2008 11:49:51 AM

Oh yeah. There's a HUGE media bias towards him. I'm not sure where it comes from though, other than people have reported on just about everything for the Clintons (including Bill putting a cigar in Monica's snatch).

1/30/2008 12:07:07 PM

The media generally always hypes underdogs.

I think the American public is getting to the point where its able to ignore the noise fairly easily.

1/30/2008 12:15:03 PM

^^^Florida never counted. It has no delegates to give. As for showing Obama with more delegates, that is correct. The Superdelegates can change their mind at anytime and become delegates for anyone else. those are not hillary's delegates until they vote at the convention.

1/30/2008 12:23:08 PM

^

1/30/2008 12:36:44 PM

Quote :

"The media generally always hypes underdogs."

Wait, the media hyped Ron Paul? I don't recall that.

1/30/2008 12:41:19 PM

Well, America is one of the most hated countries in the world - any other candidate wouldn't do HALF of what Barack would do. Just by Barack getting elected, the whole world would be like:

"Damn, the Americans just elected a black dude named Barack Hussein Obama as their president. Maybe they aren't a bunch of assholes, and it was just that piece of shit GWBush"

Not only that, I like his foreign policy platform - he's the most "diplomatic" of the candidates. If he "renews" diplomacy as he stated in his platform, it will be easier for me to engage in my work to augment international unfair trade practices and predatory pricing after I graduate from law school.

1/30/2008 12:43:06 PM

Ron Paul was never an underdog.

He was perpetually known as unelectable for a variety of reasons that internet neckbeards love to ignore.

See: John McCain for proof.

1/30/2008 12:43:17 PM

But Ron Paul had signs all over the interstates!!!!

1/30/2008 12:51:30 PM

Because I want his campaign to call the month before the election: Baraktober

1/30/2008 1:51:38 PM

1/31/2008 6:12:32 AM

^you do realize, from your turd tower of ass milk, that there is really no major ideological difference between Obama and Clinton.

1/31/2008 12:22:48 PM

Because he wants to legalize it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/31/obama-decriminalize-pot_n_84277.html



j/k

I support Ron Paul. Barack'd be aight tho.

1/31/2008 12:23:36 PM

good cartoon socks.

Ill be watching the debate tonight and see if he actually lays out a plan or just more talking points.

1/31/2008 12:34:41 PM

^^^ Except that one ^^

1/31/2008 12:38:05 PM

Quote :

"any other candidate wouldn't do HALF of what Barack would do. Just by Barack getting elected,"

Quote :

" I like his foreign policy platform - he's the most "diplomatic" of the candidates."

What exactly would he "do"?

1/31/2008 12:45:46 PM

^^ I posed the same question and was told that he was a good foreign policy leader because he would send troops into Pakistan to fight possible Al Qaeda cells against Musharref's will.

[Edited on January 31, 2008 at 12:56 PM. Reason : a]

1/31/2008 12:51:49 PM

Quote :

" Ill be watching the debate tonight and see if he actually lays out a plan or just more talking points."

he has laid out plans. look at his website or his latest book. they are right there for the taking. i know it's easier to say that he doesn't stand for anything than to actually exert an iota of effort.

1/31/2008 12:54:45 PM

maybe i'm wrong, but i think he was specifically referring to candidate information at the debates

cause you cant expect every voter to buy and read his book, for example

1/31/2008 12:56:54 PM

and you can't expect detailed policy explanations when you're given 60 seconds to respond to a question at a debate.

1/31/2008 12:58:52 PM

oh definitely, but whichever candidates win (Obama vs. McCain, its looking like nowadays) are going to appeal to the majority of voters at the debates imo, not necessarily in books or even websites

[Edited on January 31, 2008 at 1:00 PM. Reason : .]

1/31/2008 1:00:22 PM

Quote :

"(Obama vs. McCain, its looking like nowadays)............"

?? how do you figure that



[Edited on January 31, 2008 at 1:04 PM. Reason : a]

1/31/2008 1:02:08 PM

just based on who has won what states so far, who has dropped out, etc

I think its gonna be Obama vs. McCain and I think Huckabee will be McCain's VP running mate

just my hunch as of 1/31/2008

1/31/2008 1:07:16 PM

Do you think Edwards dropping will cause enough voters to shift to Obama and win a lot of states?

Cause as of now, isn't Hillary ahead in polls in many Super Tuesday states (including Cali and NY)?

1/31/2008 1:10:09 PM

well obviously on the Dem side, its either going to be Hillary or Barak

and it seems the Repub side is either going to be McCain or Romney...I think Huckabee is taking votes from Romney and is planning all along to be McCain's VP candidate

from what i've heard, Obama and Hillary are in a pretty close race, but I think all her and Bill's old dirty laundry will ultimately give Barak the nod

1/31/2008 1:12:37 PM

she is. but the latest poll out of california only gives hillary a 3% lead (compared to consistent double digit leads up through only a few days ago). so i think things are moving in obama's direction. but it will still be an uphill fight. clinton will definitely win some states. she might even won most of them on super tuesday, but i don't think this fight will be over for a little while longer.

1/31/2008 1:12:50 PM

Yeah, a win in Cali for Obama would be a sucker punch for Hill consindering its something like 440 delegates. I think she can carry it though.

1/31/2008 1:15:30 PM

sarijoul, I said plans. On his website I dont see plans just talking points. Here is one "plan"

First, provide Americans with disabilities with the educational opportunities they need to succeed.

Second, end discrimination and promote equal opportunity.

Third, increase the employment rate of workers with disabilities.

And fourth, support independent, community-based living for Americans with disabilities.


Let me give you one of my plans for global peace:

First, we need to provide incentives for people to be at peace and be happy.

Second, we will eliminate guns, hunger, and diarrhea.



He does have more "plans" under his foreign policy but some are :

"Obama will crack down on nuclear proliferation by strengthening the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty so that countries like North Korea and Iran that break the rules will automatically face strong international sanctions."
HOW? Any different from now?

"Obama will secure all loose nuclear materials in the world within four years."

Holly shit, people are actually believing this?

Yes he is likeable but some of this shit is ridiculous you have to admit.

1/31/2008 1:21:17 PM

Quote :

"Obama will secure all loose nuclear materials in the world within four years."

wow thats pretty bold, and pretty much impossible to even verify

1/31/2008 1:25:40 PM

$32 Million in January.

No federal lobbyists.

No PACs.

Just ordinary donors.

Holy hell.

1/31/2008 1:36:22 PM

yeah i'll give you that that part is a little ridiculous. but you pretty much cherry-picked from 100 different bullet points on the foreign policy page, pretty much the weakest one.

1/31/2008 1:36:34 PM

why would you even put that on your website though?

1/31/2008 1:39:54 PM

i don't know. i'm not trying to defend that.

1/31/2008 1:41:43 PM

haha, yeah there is alot of BS.

Sarijoul, what you call PLANS, I call GOALS. The stuff he says is very nice, but the actual plan is how you go about doing it, which you dont see alot of concrete plans on that site..mostly goals.

1/31/2008 1:49:33 PM

i really don't see how your criticism is any unique to barack obama, it's just the story that news agnecies have chosen to take for him.

1/31/2008 1:50:45 PM

well regardless, i think what eyerdb was getting at was policy vs. plan

policy can kind of be just a general idea of what you want to accomplish

plans are more specific and say how they would be accomplished

barak's site clearly shows his views on the issues but not necessarily how he would implement those things

here's another 'plan' that sounds nice, but is basically just a nice general statement of something relatively impossible to do:

Quote :

"end discrimination and promote equal opportunity"

end discrimination...sounds easy enough

1/31/2008 1:51:18 PM

seriously i just don't want to get into this. i have work to do.

but yes. there are areas where it's just happy talk without real plans. but you can say that about every candidate in certain areas, especially at this point in the campaigns.


[Edited on January 31, 2008 at 1:53 PM. Reason : n/m]

[Edited on January 31, 2008 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .]

1/31/2008 1:52:59 PM

i'll gladly say it about ALL of the candidates, which i think is why eyerdb was looking forward to seeing what any of the candidates were going to say in the upcoming debates as far as SPECIFICS

1/31/2008 1:57:07 PM

you know most politicians or elected officials come up with the policy ideas. the people that generally make the plans are the career civil service/bureaucrats within the public organization.

so this talk of plans and details is somewhat amusing. yes candidates can offer plans on how to accomplish their goals, and in a way is important to see them thinking of a way to their goal. also what they are willing to do to accomplish that goal.

yet no politician ever comes up with the exact plans that are in enacted. their appointees do, as do the people they keep in charge in their public agencies.

1/31/2008 4:48:32 PM