its pretty much an all-or-nothing deal

if they win a title this year somehow, it will be worth it i guess but yeah their window just started closing a lot faster (assuming this deal goes through)

2/6/2008 3:28:12 PM

Its all about the playoffs.

Duncan, Yao, Boozer...even Chandler, Dampier, and Bynum are all potential playoff opponents for the Suns. They need a force in the lane against those teams. Amare is horrible at defense and the Suns are generally pretty weak rebounding team.

It'll be interesting to see how much they use him.

2/6/2008 3:32:46 PM

Shaq passed the Physical

Its official now

Lakers vs Suns next Wednesday on ESPN btw

2/6/2008 6:00:14 PM

Attn Marion owners in fantasy basketball: Put somebody else in your lineup today

Attn Shaq owners in fantasy basketball: Seriously, why the hell do you have Shaq on your fantasy team?

2/6/2008 6:04:27 PM

The most important thing here is how this will effect the replaying of the final 51.9 seconds of the Hawks/Heat game now

Quote :

"Shaquille O'Neal is leaving some unfinished business behind in Atlanta as he heads to Phoenix. The Atlanta Hawks and Miami Heat must replay the final 51.9 seconds of their Dec. 19 game in Atlanta on March 8, but now O'Neal won't be with Miami for the game. O'Neal was traded to the Phoenix Suns on Wednesday. The deal sent four-time All-Star Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to Miami, and thus the new question: Will the two new Miami players be eligible for the replay of the end of the Dec. 19 game? "The league doesn't know. They'll have to make a determination," Hawks general manager Billy Knight said Wednesday night. The replay is necessary because the Hawks' official scorer ruled incorrectly that O'Neal fouled out of the game. The Hawks won 117-111 in overtime. Play will start from the time after O'Neal's disputed sixth foul, with the Hawks leading 114-111. Knight said NBA officials brought up the possibility of an O'Neal trade when they announced last month that the end of the game must be replayed. Knight said he was told be officials last month that a decision would have to be made about the eligibility of any new Miami players if there was a trade. The Hawks also were fined $50,000, with commissioner David Stern ruling the team was "grossly negligent" in failing to address the mistake. The protest is the first granted by the NBA since December 1982, when then-NBA commissioner Larry O'Brien upheld a request for a replay by the San Antonio Spurs after their 137-132 double-overtime loss to the Los Angeles Lakers the previous month. The Spurs and Lakers finally finished the game in April 1983, with San Antonio winning 117-114. "

2/6/2008 7:59:01 PM

i didnt think about how they'd replay the end of that game

i hope marion scores the gamewinner cause the heat arent a playoff threat

2/6/2008 10:12:22 PM

I don't think this is a good trade for amare. Amare scores many of his points because he is able to out quick most 5s. I don't think he's able to do that against most forwards in the league. Though I'd like to see it. I'd like to see Shaq help them reach the finals.

I do think that the Suns are going to miss a player like James Jones and wish Grant Hill was a better 3 pt shooter. Because they are losing one 3 pt threat and placing shaq on the floor. This may hurt their spacing more than their ability to run the break. Shaq is still effective if he is being guarded by one man.

2/7/2008 8:26:50 AM

Quote :

"i can't imagine shaq wanting to live in arizona after LA and Miami."

He probably wants away from his succubus ex-wife

2/7/2008 9:28:31 AM

the suns should have gone after antoine walker

2/7/2008 12:04:59 PM

so instead of a slow old man that might give you 10/10 a game they would get a person that just throws up 3s whenever he feels like it and avgs just 8 pt. per game

2/7/2008 12:24:57 PM

Quote :

"the suns should have gone after antoine walker"

Alando Tucker is a potential better, younger version of him......though he doesn't play anyway.

2/7/2008 12:42:17 PM

I didn't mean to say Walker was good. but he's a big man that can spread the floor, run with them, rebound and would fit in their system. Considering he's tarnished goods he could be had for cheap. He would be another big body instead of having marion get worked by big men or letting Amare get in foul trouble every night.

2/7/2008 9:27:23 PM

Walker may be 6 foot 8 but he plays like hes 6 foot 2

He's a malcontent at this point

2/7/2008 9:37:26 PM

he's a shadow of his all star form. just because he takes too many jump shots doesn't mean he couldn't guard a big or hit the glass. He did contribute to a Miami team that won the title. I'm not sure he should be dismissed. But that's not happening so whatever.

Anybody think shaq will get the best of bynum when they meet?

2/8/2008 12:23:14 AM

Reading Chad Ford's article today made me sick to my stomach. When you look at the players the Suns turned down to get Shaq instead...

Jermaine O'Neal - who I thought this trade was for when i caught a quick glimpse of the bottom line. This would have solidified the defense.

Kirilenko - A great fit with the system

Dalembert - Athletic, great defender, having a big season

Darko & Mike Miller - Perfect fit with Mike and Darko is underrated



Can't say I would have loved the Ben Wallace deal though.


Still, any one of those guys would have improved the Suns chances of winning a title. I can't sell myself on this Shaq deal he's a defensive liability, no longer demands a double team, and has no health/conditioning.

2/8/2008 12:37:00 AM

the Suns still have plenty of 3 point threats...Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Diaw

2/8/2008 12:38:15 AM

AK 47 would have been a perfect trade for them....he plays solid defense that the Suns need and is pretty stout on offense as well.

2/8/2008 12:55:00 AM

Tree, with marion playing the 4 they always had4 3 pt shooters on the floor with amare in the middle....if amare is at the 4 and shaq at the five they only have 3 three point shooters on the floor at the same time. Amare occasionally shoots a 3 and can knock down a 17 footer but it isn't the same. They won't spread the floor as well.

ofcourse i know they have good shooters left. Though when they have Hill on the court with Shaq and Amare they really won't have the same "we all shoot threes" gameplan of old

2/8/2008 12:59:23 AM

i dont really like the trade for either team

shaq will obviously slow down phoenix, and i dont think marion will put up the same type of numbers cause i think he was able to thrive in phoenix's system...that said i think miami got the better end of the deal

and Hill isn't that bad of a 3 point shooter...he can knock down open jumpers from wherever

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 1:01 AM. Reason : .]

2/8/2008 1:00:14 AM

I think he made less than 10 in his last year in Orlando. (he played a full season). He has been using his mid range jumper. But we agree, though very obvious, fitting shaq in will change things. I'm not ready to give up on the Suns. Shaq's per minute numbers are all pretty good. He just can't stay on teh floor because of foul trouble. The Suns foul the least in the league, the number of fouls he'll take will decrease just because that is their strategy. When he is on the floor he is still effective. I believe his numbers are something like 14-7 26 minutes but he's still shooting about 58 percent. If he was playing 34 minutes or so he'd have better numbers.

I agree about marion. I've always though Marion was one of those guys that is called underrated so much that he actually becomes very overrated....others on this list include elton brand, kirilenko, Gerald Wallace. He won't thrive offensively and his defense hasn't been as good this year. Though he was an all star before Nash arrived....

2/8/2008 1:23:25 AM

I know you just didn't talk shit about Gerald Wallace

I see where you're coming from, but I see him play in person several times a month and he is consistently the best player on the floor...not just on the Bobcats, but on both teams

2/8/2008 1:33:22 AM

consistently the best player on the floor? bold statement. he's consistently the best athlete on the floor. and always the best Bobcat. I just don't think he's underrated anymore and you sorta proved my point.

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 1:47 AM. Reason : thanks slave]

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 1:47 AM. Reason : a]

2/8/2008 1:36:26 AM

You mean you don't think he's underrated anymore.

And he's not...but he hasn't crossed the threshold to being overrated either.

I would argue that he's underpaid, however....less than 10 million a year is a relative bargain for all he brings to the table.

2/8/2008 1:41:39 AM

He's underpaid yes. He is ignored by the media much like the rest of his team because they are A. so bad and B. in Charlotte. But I really do think Wallace is overrated on this site.

But you're right, if Marion gets 17 mil a year, then so should Wallace. I think Wallace is better than Marion. (example)

2/8/2008 1:49:27 AM

i think hill has hit about 25 3 pointers this year at around 35%

granted he gets more opportunities in phoenix's offense than he did in orlando

and wallace is definitely underrated...oh sure he gets props for his defense but he's a hell of an offensive player too...lots of so called superstars are great offensive players with average or little defense...wallace is a great defender in all respects and a better than average offensive player...but like you said he plays for the charlotte bobcats so he doesnt get the props

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 1:59 AM. Reason : .]

2/8/2008 1:56:37 AM

Quote :

"I agree about marion. I've always though Marion was one of those guys that is called underrated so much that he actually becomes very overrated....others on this list include elton brand, kirilenko, Gerald Wallace. He won't thrive offensively and his defense hasn't been as good this year. Though he was an all star before Nash arrived...."

wow, somebody has never actually watched basketball. fucking idiot.

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 3:58 AM. Reason : eat a dick]

2/8/2008 3:58:14 AM

I find it funny how 2-3 days ago all the sports people were killing this trade, then last night it was all the sudden a great trade for both teams, shaq is revitalized, etc.

Get real, the Heat got a bargain, they can now draft lottery this year, rebuild next year, and be back in the hunt. The Suns will exit the playoffs early again after getting nothing from Shaq. Love the guy, love watching him play, I just don't see him staying healthy and being effective.

2/8/2008 9:27:40 AM

Wade, Marion and...Beasley?

2/8/2008 9:49:33 AM

what was the Wallace deal?

im sure i wouldve loved it

2/8/2008 10:05:51 AM

Quote :

"AK 47 would have been a perfect trade for them....he plays solid defense that the Suns need and is pretty stout on offense as well."

I see why people are saying this (and saying similar things in regards to other players Phoenix could have traded for)...but that isn't what Phoenix wanted. They wanted a center and they got the best available one. AK couldn't have guarded Duncan, Yao, Boozer, and Bynum...and that's what Phoenix wanted (and needed too...but I still don't know if it was a good trade).

2/8/2008 10:11:28 AM

nasty take that shit to chit chat......and i've watched more basketball than most. for sure. If you don't see what I was saying than you're an idiot. Marion has no offensive game on his own. He's a good finisher/slasher and an above average defender that really only gets press for his defense because he guards a variety of positions and rebounds very well.

Brand, Andrei, Gerald are just alwas caled underrated and when people do that sooooo much. they are then actually "rated" pretty damn high

I agree with jbrick. The trade might not work and NOBODY knows if shaq will fit. But he's right, I haven't heard of anothre trade option except jermaine oneal that brought what they were lacking to their team. If I'm the Suns trying to win a title this year, I'd rather have shaq than jermaine oneal.

2/8/2008 2:19:15 PM

Quote :

"I'd rather have shaq than jermaine oneal."

i'd rather have marion...but obviously when a player (marion) publicly requests a trade a year ago, you're going to eventually have to move him

the Heat give up Odom and Caron Butler, for Marion, and an NBA title

2/8/2008 2:21:07 PM

the heat will definitely benefit from having marion instead of o'neal

2/8/2008 2:29:32 PM

^^and the draft pick that the Lakers used on Jordan Farmar, who's really coming on this year

so potentially a starting lineup of Farmar, Wade, Butler, Odom and Haslem/Mourning


In the East, thats top 4

2/8/2008 8:58:10 PM

Tree's right, this is a great trade for the Heat. It also makes the trade for shaq an even better trade. Because they got such a great value for him after he helped Wade win them a title

2/9/2008 3:19:36 AM

when the heck is he gonna play?

nevermind, i see next wednesday against the lakers. i hope it's on tv. i'll have to dvr it.

dang. then after they play the lakers, their next two games are against boston and detroit. some good games.

[Edited on February 15, 2008 at 12:35 AM. Reason : ]

2/15/2008 12:29:58 AM

all 3 are on national tv too

the first too on espn and sunday pistons game on abc

2/15/2008 4:21:30 PM

wonder of kobe is going to play in the suns lakers game since he is (most likely) sitting out all star weekend due to the partially torn ligament in his shooting hand's pinkie finger

2/15/2008 4:40:51 PM

He wouldn't miss that game unless he gets surgery

Interesting article on espn.com saying that he should

But he'll probably just take the week off and be 70-80 percent the rest of the way

The league is trying to make him play this weekend since he didn't miss any real games

2/15/2008 5:02:04 PM

After reading Bill's article today I'm changing my stance.

He's right, the Suns weren't going to win the championship as currently constructed. I was in denial because i get $6,000 if they win and just wanted to think they would.

Shaq isn't a stud anymore but he should easily be able to go out there and put up 18 and 8 or somewhere around those numbers. The only real problem is that he sucks defensively. However, he does instantly put pressure on opposing defenses to stay out of foul trouble. He should draw tons of fouls on all the easy scoring ops that Nash sets him up for. It also gives them another big body since Stoudamire is a little foul prone himself.

Getting rid of Marion puts Diaw back in the post where he's more effective and should improve the team chemistry.

They are definitely going to miss Marions versatility on defense though and Phoenix is pretty void of three point shooters now. They've lost four of their top shooters in Jones, Johnson, Q, and Marion over the past few years.

A lineup of Nash, Bell, Hill, Stoud, Shaq.... with Barbosa backing up the guards and Diaw backing up the F/C position.... that can definitely be competitive. If only they hadn't traded Luol Deng...

They really could use a good defensive post player too though...

2/16/2008 8:28:34 PM

^that's exactly how I feel about it. They still have a few 3 pt threats. It isn't the lack of shooters on the team. It will be the lack of shooters on the floor when diaw/amare are together. But I think it improves their offense in other ways. It improves their post defense (not that shaq is a good defender, amare is just that bad) but damn they are going to miss marion on defense. he would guard duncan and parker in the same game. he was nuts

2/17/2008 3:37:27 PM

bttt

pretty much everyone in this thread was right about this trade not working

4/30/2008 3:16:02 PM

Quote :

"Shaq will be tired and mess up the flow of the Suns offense. The suns will lose in the 1st round."

4/30/2008 3:51:50 PM

But they did win A game

4/30/2008 4:13:48 PM

With Shaq, they had the choice between:

A) A guy that has half a chance of guarding Duncan, but is a liability at the FT line.

B) No chance against Tim Duncan.

They needed someone that could either do both or could contribute in other areas to make up for (B).

4/30/2008 4:23:44 PM

without shaq last year they won 2 games versus the spurs, after winning another entire series to even face the spurs

with shaq they win 1 playoff game

case dismissed

and why does everybody act like Amare cant fuck with Duncan? I saw the tides changing, the passing of the torch from Duncan to Amare when Amare blocked that dunk in their series a few years ago...its not like Duncan can stop Amare either

i should also note that i've always liked Shaq THE PERSON better than Kobe THE PERSON and always sided with Shaq during his beef with Kobe...but he is past his prime...kudos to Miami for suckering Phoenix into paying $20 million / year for a fat old slow center who STILL cant shoot free throws

4/30/2008 4:25:35 PM

^I think it has to do more with Tony Parker making steve nash his little bitch


Parker destroyed the suns, not Duncan (sans the first game)

Duncan was consistant but you can say the same for Amare.


Parker is the reason the suns only won one game this series, not Shaq.

4/30/2008 4:39:31 PM

Quote :

"without shaq last year they won 2 games versus the spurs, after winning another entire series to even face the spurs with shaq they win 1 playoff game case dismissed "

Come on now. This series had more to do with Parker playing like the best point guard in the league then Shaq not making the difference with Duncan.

Quote :

"and why does everybody act like Amare cant fuck with Duncan? I saw the tides changing, the passing of the torch from Duncan to Amare when Amare blocked that dunk in their series a few years ago...its not like Duncan can stop Amare either"

Duncan can stop Amare better than Amare can stop Duncan. Amare is a horrible defender. And with Kurt Thomas gone this year Phoenix had fucking Brian Skinner as the backup center...BRIAN SKINNER. Boris Diaw would also guard the opposing team's center when Amare was out. THAT'S HORRIBLE. They had to get a big man to even think that they could win a 7-game series with the bigs in the West (Gasol, Duncan, Boozer/Okur, etc.).

They didn't lose this series down low...they lost it on the perimeter.

4/30/2008 4:48:16 PM

exactly, last year they had Marion guard Parker since he understands defense and has speed. No one on the Suns this year has both.

4/30/2008 5:06:19 PM

you dont lose a series 4-1 on just one facet of the game...they got outplayed, outhustled, and outcoached...Parker would be my series MVP but Shaq's impact was pathetic...Steve Kerr looks like another player who was good (enough) on the court, and sucks in the front office

and i still have personal bias...i didnt like the shaq trade from day 1, i didnt think phoenix had a chance to win any title, especially WITH shaq, and my buddy who talks mad shit picked phoenix to win it all

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 5:08 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2008 5:06:35 PM