^ Protectionism? GG.

[Edited on April 5, 2008 at 7:32 PM. Reason : .]

4/5/2008 7:32:24 PM

Uh, where did I advocate protectionism?

4/5/2008 7:33:05 PM

Quote :

"not China's biggest customers"

Um. . .you're an idiot. This would be a form of protectionism.

4/5/2008 7:39:49 PM

so an individual saying "i'm going to shop at steve's five and dime instead of wal-mart to show my disapproval" is protectionism. Interesting. What textbooks did you use now?

4/5/2008 11:12:27 PM

Protectionism:

Quote :

"Advocacy of protection. The word has a negative connotation, and few advocates of protection in particular situations will acknowledge being protectionists."

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~alandear/glossary/p.html

[Edited on April 6, 2008 at 8:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/6/2008 8:19:17 PM

usually I don't find myself agreeing with PinkandBlack but,

"1) making the olympics look like a pariah by causing the ratings to tank due to moral outrage"

I can go along with wholeheartedly. Although, for me its as natural as the Olympics being on.

4/6/2008 8:36:48 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7334545.stm

torch relay protests in France.

I have to say, I did pretty much call this.

4/7/2008 8:54:40 AM

from cnn,

Quote :

"The plan was for the torchbearers to be encircled by several hundred officers, some in riot police vehicles and on motorcycles, others on rollerblades and on foot. Closest to the torchbearer would be the Chinese torch escorts, with Paris police on rollerblades moving around them. "

rollerblade cops...I just don't see the advantage that brings in the situation they are in.

4/7/2008 10:58:07 AM

God damn, those French have been going at it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7334545.stm

30 some arrested, flame doused out multiple times (but of course they have a spare on the bus), and lots of Tibet flags and the Olympic handcuff design.

4/7/2008 11:43:19 AM

I'm curious to see how this turns out in San Fransisco. I understand the desire to run the relay there given the large ethnic Chinese population, but if ANY metro area is going to have the most aggressive and violent anti-Olympics, anti-Chinese, pro-Tibet crowd, it's going to be the Bay Area.

4/7/2008 1:25:23 PM

Very interesting point. My initial thought would be that the American-Chinese in San. Fran. are going to be protesting it up with the best of them. Really, what would any ethnic Chinese American care about protecting the communist government of the PRC?

They are going to get so much shit when they take it through that town...

4/7/2008 1:28:24 PM

Can't you just feel the love?

4/7/2008 3:30:27 PM

first, those cops are on rollerblades, pretty sweet

and now they're climbing the golden gate bridge...

4/7/2008 4:00:14 PM

pretty badass start to the olympic torch relay protests in the U.S.

our crazies will show those euro-pussies how to fuckin' protest

its hilarious that the only place the torch is passing through is San Fran... excellent choice

[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 4:25 PM. Reason : ,]

4/7/2008 4:25:32 PM

Quote :

"our crazies will show those euro-pussies how to fuckin' protest"

*beaming with American pride*

4/7/2008 5:34:17 PM

they are talking bout how people in san fran are clinging to bridge cables and displaying banners and shit...what a bunch of queers they are

4/7/2008 5:51:37 PM

may a chinese person contribute 2 cents to this discussion?

personally, I don't know the truth about the incident in Tibet or anywhere else since I'm not there personally. I just want to tell you guys what the general opinions are among chinese people. I think since china is the focus of the discussion, their opinion should be taken into consideration (like someone said, need to "treat them like adults")
the following is what I have heard from them, who are not attached to the government (maybe they are not speaking what they really think, but you are the judge)

1. hosting olympic is important to them. it's a show of dignity, a way to come out of the image of a weak country since 1800's
2. olympic is a sports event which should be separated from politics
3. don't care who's boycotting, if they don't like it then don't come
4. western media has been unfair and untruthful when presenting the incident
5. they don't like the way western countries devilizing china by only reporting negative things
6. they think western countries are jealous about china's emerging strength and try to stop its growth
7. the french police sucks

4/7/2008 6:49:20 PM

I like how you just summarized the views of ~2,000,000,000 people.

4/7/2008 7:02:55 PM

[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 7:12 PM. Reason : ]

4/7/2008 7:06:59 PM

Quote :

"1. hosting olympic is important to them. it's a show of dignity, a way to come out of the image of a weak country since 1800's 2. olympic is a sports event which should be separated from politics"

I completely agree with #1. One of my largest rationals in making this thread.

for #2, sorry China (or simply anyone who would wish to argue this), you don't get to decide that. The Olympics have never been separated from politics, and there are ample Olympics throughout history that have set a president for this. No matter how you turn this, it looks like "should be separated from politics when we hold it". It's just not going to happen.

#6 is also a serious sticky point. Politics is bloody nepotism. But on the other hand, I think individuals are cool, not self serving at the expense of others, and reasonable. Face it, Nepal crackdowns, failure to do anything about Sudan or Burma, and all that other crap China has been doing was done because your leaders are a bunch of fucking douchebags. But hey, we have douchebags running this country too. It's just douchebags versus douchebags, and even a small supply of natural gas from a country with an oppressive regime is enough to keep them from doing anything about the citizens getting fucked in the ass. It's a simple equation, it's in their national interest to do so. Every reasonable individual in the developed world would gladly accept a marginal decrease in their standard of living so that a billion more people could enter into modern society. However, it's not so much of a "marginal" decrease when you're a small business about to go under due to outsourcing or a worker loosing their job overseas. Parading around like you don't like the communist government when in reality you just don't like the fact that your country is loosing power to a new force is pretty douchebag-ish. That sounds like something a politician would do. However, I believe that the boycotts called for so far, from the likes of Stephen Spielberg and others, are genuinely rooted in the human rights cause.

[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 7:39 PM. Reason : those yet to come... i'm not so sure about]

4/7/2008 7:38:29 PM

there are many kinds of reactions among the chinese towards spielburg's boycott (as well as from other people for other incidents), I think one thing they are bitter about (or appear to be bitter about) is whether he's being fair. so, they say, there are many shitty shady things going on around the world, why did he only react towards china, or why are the germans and the french only so angry about china.

my personal opinion is that spielburg seemed a little, um... "unusual", maybe. but that's offtopic

[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 7:59 PM. Reason : ]

4/7/2008 7:55:40 PM

well the way democrats are talking about this seems like they would fuck us up even MORE on foreign policy

4/7/2008 7:56:41 PM

Quote :

"there are many shitty shady things going on around the world, why did he only react towards china."

Because they're holding the olympics there and which amplifies the effect of a boycott.

4/7/2008 7:57:22 PM

my personal opinion: doesn't seems very fair, to make the people of a country look bad by bringing trouble to an event so crucial to their pride, while it's the government doing the shit and making its own decision. but, you know, c'est la vie so I'm not complaining.

4/7/2008 8:02:20 PM

^ this isn't making the people look bad, it's making the gov look bad.

You're right, for a lot of people involved, its blatant hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance. But don't think it's people trying to hate on the typical Chinese civilian, it's people hating on the policies of the gov..

4/7/2008 9:27:38 PM

yea, I understand what you mean, cuz I'm here in another country. it's just hard for the chinese people in china to get your point - they feel personally insulted. it's the result of lack of proper communication, caused by both chinese government's news blockade and the irresponsible reports of western media.

4/7/2008 9:52:16 PM

Olympic Torch Used To Ignite Tibetan Protesters


http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/olympic_torch_used_to

4/7/2008 10:03:22 PM

I thought that the entire point of Tibet protesting now was because the the Olympics are soon.

I just want to bring this point up (yeah, i'm trying for devil's advocate). You know, the Chinese have their opinion and all, but what about the people of Tibet? Is not boycotting saying that they are completely wrong? Aren't the Tibet protests an action of the people and not the government? Why should we support a large, ideologically flawed institution over the will of an oppressed population? One way or the other, we're taking sides - why should we take the Chinese side?

4/7/2008 10:28:36 PM

^because this whole tibet mess is not a black vs white, evil vs. good campaign. pretty much just like every other domestic conflict the US has attempted to interfere with - too many different stories and direct/indirect interests involved. I don't think what we know from the media has covered everything behind the scene. plus china is not iraq and you can't just go in and take it over, you know

4/8/2008 12:27:31 AM

Quote :

"Protectionism: Quote : "Advocacy of protection. The word has a negative connotation, and few advocates of protection in particular situations will acknowledge being protectionists." http://www-personal.umich.edu/~alandear/glossary/p.html "

And this does nothing to say why advocating that individuals buy non-Chinese products, that's individuals going out and buying whereever they so choose to buy in a free market, is protectionism, it's a free market decision like advocating that people buy Guiness for their strength. It might be wishful thinking since everything's made there, but still, I thought you were a grad student.

Quote :

"usually I don't find myself agreeing with PinkandBlack but, "1) making the olympics look like a pariah by causing the ratings to tank due to moral outrage" I can go along with wholeheartedly. Although, for me its as natural as the Olympics being on."

Just about everything I'd advocate, I'd like to think, has been in the name of human rights as our prime concern as humans with moral standards which value human freedom and justice as fairness. I'd hope you would agree with that.

[Edited on April 8, 2008 at 12:43 AM. Reason : .]

4/8/2008 12:41:08 AM

I have a strange idea that these anti-chinese sentiments are just racism with a mask on.

i love you perfect white people with governments that do nothing bad.

4/8/2008 8:38:45 PM

Some of us white people call out our own government just as much.

The Chinese gov't is still atrocious.

[Edited on April 8, 2008 at 9:10 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2008 9:10:45 PM

there's nothing you can change really, it's part of chinese culture. the chinese people value the interest of rulers more than the interest of common people, and those in power will do whatever they can to gather wealth for themselves. It seems like competition is the way of life. It's been like that for centuries, the new chinese government is just the same as old regimes because it's still the same people.

[Edited on April 8, 2008 at 9:26 PM. Reason : ]

4/8/2008 9:26:05 PM

Quote :

"I have a strange idea that these anti-chinese sentiments are just racism with a mask on. i love you perfect white people with governments that do nothing bad."

Yeah, the world's never been outraged with white people governments over human rights violations before.




(led the charge against his own white person government's human rights violations and became one of history's great human rights advocates for it)

In this case, we need more Wilberforce and less violent protests in the US, EU, and UN.

4/9/2008 9:00:23 PM

this just shows you that whites are naturally more violent people...look what that did the the native americans, and africa...not to mention dropping atomic weapons on the asians...or kicking the palestinians out of their territory...

4/9/2008 9:08:57 PM

^ A WITCH!

4/9/2008 9:17:20 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7339380.stm

It hit the big San. Fran.

Thousands of protesters gathered, along with huge banners unfurled from the Golden Gate bridge. Cops didn't even have a chance of taking it through the intended route peacefully, so they made a new route no one knew of and it quietly passed through - and nobody got to see it.

Success or failure? What say you?

The house also passed a resolution condemning China's Tibet actions 413 votes to one. Who was the one? Your good old Ron Paul.

4/9/2008 9:37:48 PM

It's a token piece of legislation. I'm sure he would've preferred to be voting on something more important.

4/10/2008 12:19:38 AM

democrats need to chill the fuck out on this

4/10/2008 1:08:08 AM

hmm somehow I don't think the Americans know the feeling of patriotism, since there has never been an occasion America was completely pwned, its men slaughtered and women raped, and therefore becoming more and more smuggy.

the smug is coming the smug is coming...

[Edited on April 10, 2008 at 1:08 AM. Reason : ]

4/10/2008 1:08:36 AM

^ Let me get this straight.

Do you really carry water for these clowns?

http://torchrelay.beijing2008.cn/en/news/headlines/n214296388.shtml

Just read the bald-faced lies in those descriptions. Strong support from every city? A warm welcome worldwide? Borrowing from Uncle Howard, "This is mass madness!"

4/10/2008 2:52:41 AM

^so, if I say anything good about china, I'm one of the servants of government, right?

I don't think you'll ever understand the feeling of those students who are trying to protect the torch. ever.

4/10/2008 4:47:47 AM

Right. I care more about reality than symbols.

Your point?

4/10/2008 11:55:20 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7339959.stm

Official statements have come from the International Olympic Committee (IOC) on the protests, saying pretty much what I believe. Nothing like the degree of incident we've seen is going to stop the Olympics in it's tracks, and widespread boycotts from the world's major powers would be a clear overreaction. At the same time, Beijing makes somewhat an ethical commitment in holding the games to conduct business in a more humanitarian manner than what they've been doing. What should happen is for the games to actually play as a force of change for China.

China needs to sit at the table with the Dalai Lama. Regardless of weather they do anything or not - they need talks. Badly. Now.

A whirlwind of boycotts is not looking like a good solution right now. And I'm finding myself agreeing with Dr. Paul an awful lot here. Significant progress can be made. But not with both sides burying their head in their ass like what's happening now.

4/10/2008 2:37:54 PM

but no one wants to discuss this - the real issue.

They would rather go to the other thread and bastardize the discussion into some crap about natural human rights and other stuff that has no actual bearing on the current situation.

4/11/2008 8:24:45 AM

oops.

4/11/2008 12:14:14 PM

Quote :

"Beijing makes somewhat an ethical commitment"

LOL

4/11/2008 12:16:04 PM

I've heard the statement that the IOC i sconsidering barring anyone who took stances on tibet.
Does this mean they will bar athletes who speak out for china/against tibet?

4/11/2008 1:27:56 PM

Japan update



ONE person. One fucking person managed to throw himself into the wall of cops and that's the main picture for every news source in the world. They arrested 6, someone threw a tomato, wtf people? That shit was peaceful as hell.

4/26/2008 9:01:51 PM

Korea update.

Despite Tibet protesters being vastly outnumbered by China protest protesters, it would seem that they still had at least one dude manage to throw himself into the wall of police surrounding the torch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7369815.stm

One dude even tried (unsuccessfully) to set himself on fire it seems.

What amazes me is that normal people seem to have taken up this fight. I mean, the most serious (or violent) scuffles haven't been around the torch, but between activists pushing one way or the other. Still...

8,000 police were at the S. Korea relay.



Where do you even find 8,000 police? The BBC has been saying that they were there to "separate thousands of Chinese students from anti-China demonstrators". WTF are you trying to say here BBC? You're the douchebag that all China sympathizers has been accusing of one-sided coverage. Are Chinese young people getting a decent education now the Communist threat?



Give me a break.

4/27/2008 10:48:04 AM