2

2/28/2008 9:39:16 PM

Quote :

"cynicism and distrust was in regards to the presumption that husband will leave you and ultimately screw you over"

I have no idea why anyone would want to fuck a tired old she-hag with a large brood.

Would you want to stay with that? I sure wouldn't.

2/28/2008 9:41:51 PM

Maybe if we loved each other or something...

2/28/2008 9:46:02 PM

Quote :

"So you're making a conscious decision to not have kids? Or just inaction? Your parents had you, why not return the favor?"

Quote :

"what, have your parents?"

ROFL

2/28/2008 9:46:05 PM

yeah

that's ftw

2/28/2008 9:49:21 PM

shit, you people act like you've never heard that before

2/28/2008 9:52:05 PM

I don't want marriage. I could potentially see adopting a kid or something in a decade or two, or even better yet doing some kind of artificial reproduction to raise myself. That would be cool.

2/28/2008 10:08:30 PM

like jango fett?

2/28/2008 10:15:15 PM

Quote :

"Why is this? What's so bad about starting to make a big family just 1-2 years after finishing your last degree and entering the work world? 3, 4, 8 kids, why not? Being more educated means you and your eventual husband (who is also probably highly educated) have so much greater means to have MORE children and MORE happiness!"

Nothing. But some of us don't want to do all the housework and raise them on top of having a job. TIME spent in raising children correctly is far more important than the material things you could offer them by being more educated and working full-time (ie: being AWAY from them more often).

And some women just don't want kids. IT'S SO TERRIBLE THAT WOMEN, JUST LIKE MEN, HAVE THAT KIND OF OPTION, OMG! You should, if you advocate anything, advocate that men and women ALIKE should reproduce, don't just put all the pressure on the woman's decision in it. Because you can "have kids" (adoption, etc) without actually birthing them.

Quote :

"So you're making a conscious decision to not have kids? Or just inaction? Your parents had you, why not return the favor?"

And fuck them up, too? Well sure! Party! This is not a world I would want to bring a child into.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 10:32 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 10:31:00 PM

still furshia is "too" educated

2/28/2008 10:32:34 PM

Quote :

"I think that the more unstable a woman is, probably the more likely she is to reproduce."

I think perhaps this is one of those, "chicken or egg," situations.

2/28/2008 10:45:22 PM

how has nobody noticed i won this thread a long time ago

2/28/2008 10:49:05 PM

You'd like Kundera's Farewell Waltz, fjjackso.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 10:51 PM. Reason : /]

2/28/2008 10:51:03 PM

Quote :

"like jango fett?"

Yes, exactly!

2/28/2008 10:52:39 PM

Quote :

"And some women just don't want kids. IT'S SO TERRIBLE THAT WOMEN, JUST LIKE MEN, HAVE THAT KIND OF OPTION, OMG! You should, if you advocate anything, advocate that men and women ALIKE should reproduce, don't just put all the pressure on the woman's decision in it. Because you can "have kids" (adoption, etc) without actually birthing them."

So where's the thread where you criticize men for not wanting to have kids and ask for PMs from those who do?

2/28/2008 10:54:07 PM

Who in here wants me to put a baby in 'em?

2/28/2008 10:55:07 PM

Quote :

"f you advocate anything, advocate that men and women ALIKE should reproduce, don't just put all the pressure on the woman's decision in it"

Hey, I'd be all for it, but it's not a physiological possibility right now. I'm sure we're all looking forward to completely in-vitro/ex-utero reproduction (from what I've heard being pregnant is a fucking miserable experience not to mention the horrors of birth) but until then the reality remains that women are the only one's capable of giving birth.

Adoption is an option, and an important one, but the reality of the situation is that it is in our most primal instincts to pass on our genetic material. It's more than just mere sentimentality that people want to have their child.

2/28/2008 10:56:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC2gIPnUCgw

2/28/2008 10:57:43 PM

Quote :

"So where's the thread where you criticize men for not wanting to have kids and ask for PMs from those who do? "

I don't really want to judge them either way.

Quote :

"Hey, I'd be all for it, but it's not a physiological possibility right now. I'm sure we're all looking forward to completely in-vitro/ex-utero reproduction (from what I've heard being pregnant is a fucking miserable experience not to mention the horrors of birth) but until then the reality remains that women are the only one's capable of giving birth. It's more than just mere sentimentality that people want to have their child."

You didn't continue reading what I said. You can adopt. Do so, if you want kids. And I really do think it's mere sentimentality. It's silly to snub a viable and helpful option for no other reason than you want your own genetic material in the kid.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:01 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 10:59:09 PM

me too, five hundred of 'em

YEAH

2/28/2008 11:00:58 PM

Quote :

"You didn't continue reading what I said. You can adopt. Do so, if you want kids. And I really do think it's mere sentimentality. It's silly to snub a viable and helpful option for no other reason than you want your own genetic material in the kid."

I did read what you said, and I disagree re: mere sentimentality.

2/28/2008 11:02:55 PM

Quote :

"I don't really want to judge them either way."

To be perfectly honest, it's probably the woman who decides when to start with this and when to put on the breaks... in most relationships I've seen at least. Doesn't mean it's not the guys fault. I'm just sayin...

Quote :

"You didn't continue reading what I said. You can adopt. Do so, if you want kids. And I really do think it's mere sentimentality. It's silly to snub a viable and helpful option for no other reason than you want your own genetic material in the kid."

Yes, yes i suppose it is. And some people are cool with that.

2/28/2008 11:05:07 PM

So no one wants a baby in them?



*leaves thread*

2/28/2008 11:05:20 PM

Ace to the rescue!

2/28/2008 11:06:03 PM

nobody wants a baby from you, diamondace.

2/28/2008 11:07:29 PM

Quote :

"To be perfectly honest, it's probably the woman who decides when to start with this and when to put on the breaks... in most relationships I've seen at least. Doesn't mean it's not the guys fault. I'm just sayin..."

It's unfair to regulate anything of the sort to only women, and you know that.

And I'm just saying that if she doesn't want you do use her as your personal baby machine, you still have options if you need a bunch of kids.

Also, I assume you meant "brakes" and not "breaks" as in breaking up the marriage/relationship.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:08 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 11:07:36 PM

woah, baby machine talk

what are you, a Japanese politician?

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:11 PM. Reason : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakuo_Yanagisawa]

2/28/2008 11:08:37 PM

No, I just don't know why it's so important that one woman carries a bunch of kids for you, that's all.

Children are blessings if you have the disposition to love them, adopted or not.

I'm just saying if you really want kids, you shouldn't let one woman's unwillingness stand in your way.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:12 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 11:10:18 PM

so you're calling me racist?

2/28/2008 11:11:27 PM

No.

2/28/2008 11:12:12 PM

i think still furshia made me realize i should never adopt kids....i wouldnt think of the kid as my own

2/28/2008 11:13:38 PM

That's good. I doubt an adoption agency would let you adopt a child anyway.

2/28/2008 11:14:31 PM

I think it was already determined you shouldn't have any kids.

2/28/2008 11:14:37 PM

ouch.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:15 PM. Reason : puppies only need to have like a litter per invidual to have a growing population]

2/28/2008 11:15:01 PM

i feel once i grow up i'll be a good parent maybe

2/28/2008 11:15:07 PM

how'd i know furshia'd be up in hur...

2/28/2008 11:15:21 PM

2/28/2008 11:15:30 PM

Quote :

"I'm just saying if you really want kids, you shouldn't let one woman's unwillingness stand in your way."

True, but if you make the choice to get married with the intention of having children it is nearly impossible from a financial standpoint to get out of that situation if she decides that she does not want to have any more children.

The deafening silence from self-proclaimed feminists regarding the massive disparities in the legal system favoring women is probably my biggest problem with the feminist movement. If you want equality you can have it, but that means eliminating inequities both in your favor and against you.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:16 PM. Reason : stupid carrats]

2/28/2008 11:15:49 PM

Quote :

"True, but if you make the choice to get married with the intention of having children it is nearly impossible from a financial standpoint to get out of that situation if she decides that she does not want to have any more children."

Who's intention? Yours? Well it's also against the law to force her to have your kid. And you can still move for divorce, and make sure to get a prenup beforehand to prevent any unevenness in the split.

Quote :

"The deafening silence from self-proclaimed feminists regarding the massive disparities in the legal system favoring women is probably my biggest problem with the feminist movement. If you want equality you can have it, but that means eliminating inequities both in your favor and against you."

That wasn't under discussion, but I don't think anyone denies that there are problems with the legal system. It is not, however, UNIVERSALLY biased towards helping women. There are issues that swing both ways. Domestic violence and divorce, sure, the guys get the short end of the stick more often. But women are generally seen as less-credible witnesses in all kinds of cases: and why is that, exactly?

2/28/2008 11:22:25 PM

i bet it is so annoying to have a convo with still furshia

2/28/2008 11:24:14 PM

Quote :

"And some women just don't want kids. IT'S SO TERRIBLE THAT WOMEN, JUST LIKE MEN, HAVE THAT KIND OF OPTION, OMG! You should, if you advocate anything, advocate that men and women ALIKE should reproduce, don't just put all the pressure on the woman's decision in it. Because you can "have kids" (adoption, etc) without actually birthing them."

Quote :

"No, I just don't know why it's so important that one woman carries a bunch of kids for you, that's all."

Sorry to pick on you more, I know you've gotten enough of it.

But which is it; are the men responsible for the lower birth rate of the educated world, or are women benevolent beings to ever have carried the children in the first place?

wait, did that make sense? i'm drunk.

2/28/2008 11:27:27 PM

Quote :

"But which is it; are the men responsible for the lower birth rate of the educated world, or are women benevolent beings to ever have carried the children in the first place?"

I didn't say either.

I merely suggested that having kids is a personal choice, regardless of gender or education. Therefore, if you really want kids and can't find the right woman, adopt them instead.

I think the more educated women become, the more options they end up seeing for themselves, so they end up putting off having kids or just decide not to have them at all.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:30 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 11:28:29 PM

this thread has gone from to

^ yes. having kids is a personal choice. that pretty much sums up both sides of the discussion. but mostly the part where people don't understand why some women don't want to have children.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:30 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 11:28:51 PM

Quote :

"Who's intention? Yours? Well it's also against the law to force her to have your kid. And you can still move for divorce, and make sure to get a prenup beforehand to prevent any unevenness in the split."

If it's a mutual decision to have children prior to marriage and then after say, 1 kid she says she doesn't want anymore you're fucked. If you want another kid you can't have one without massive financial difficulty. No adoption agency will allow a man to adopt without the consent of his wife. As for the prenup... hardy fucking har har. See my prior statement about the legal system. Prenups are being broken more and more frequently and in some states prenup or no, the split will be uneven.

Now, an annulment is a possibility if it's been a short enough period of time, but again, good luck with that.

Quote :

"But women are generally seen as less-credible witnesses in all kinds of cases: and why is that, exactly?"

Because they are viewed as more emotional and less rational/reliable by juries. This is the fault of the jurors, not a systemic error within the legal system itself.

2/28/2008 11:29:55 PM

yes mamn

2/28/2008 11:30:27 PM

but jurors are members of society. so then isn't it the fault of society (the stereotypes against women)? i'm just sayin.

2/28/2008 11:31:03 PM

fuck jurors.

racist bastards every one of 'em.

2/28/2008 11:33:00 PM

Yes, but that's not fixable by legislation. The actual discrepancies in the legal code are. That whole equal protection under the law thing needs to swing both ways.

2/28/2008 11:33:05 PM

Quote :

"If it's a mutual decision to have children prior to marriage and then after say, 1 kid she says she doesn't want anymore you're fucked. If you want another kid you can't have one without massive financial difficulty. No adoption agency will allow a man to adopt without the consent of his wife. As for the prenup... hardy fucking har har. See my prior statement about the legal system. Prenups are being broken more and more frequently and in some states prenup or no, the split will be uneven."

If I make a promise to have a kid, I'd keep it. I'm sorry you see women as incapable of keeping their word or some nonsense, and I hope that never happens to you. And wouldn't that situation force you to not want to be married to her anymore? I mean really, if she just takes back a promise you thought she'd keep, I wouldn't tolerate that. I'm sorry you're pissed off about the system. If you don't like it, try to change it.

Quote :

"Because they are viewed as more emotional and less rational/reliable by juries. This is the fault of the jurors, not a systemic error within the legal system itself."

Similarly, judges see women as better parents because they're mothers, and more often grant visitation rights to them based on that. That's not a systemic error either.

The entire legal system discourages reporting of rape because of its existence and the defense's attempt to tear women down and discredit them even when they are reporting a legitimate rape. That's absolutely degrading, but part of the process. You act like women always get special treatment when that's not the case at all.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 11:34:22 PM

^^no, i get it for sure. i was just playing devil's advocate

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:36 PM. Reason : .^]

2/28/2008 11:34:28 PM