Quote :

"Not building another refinery since the 70s is completely idiotic. And it's because of the environmental groups who would have us returned to the stone age."

True same goes for nuclear power also

4/22/2008 4:59:24 PM

Quote :

"They hit a huge ass oil well in N. Dakota as well... supposed to be the 2nd largest on earth. Now if the militant hippies let us drill, we'll be enjoying Venezuela-esque $0.37/gal gasoline."

nope. as mentioned, this oil field has been known for years. it was never drilled because there was not a cost-effective means to do so. now that gas prices are what they are, it has become cost-effective.

that said, I am tired of hearing all the bitching about gas prices. my advice, get used to it and adjust your budget accordingly. it comes from the most valuable, finite resource on the planet. of course it is expensive. compare a gallon of gas to a gallon of any other good you consume...the reality is, the prices are pretty close and (likely) only one of the two are renewable. gas prices will never go back down. DEAL WITH IT.

4/22/2008 5:01:48 PM

^saying that you should compare the price of a gallon of gasoline to a gallon of any other commodity is GAY. Nobody consumes 20 gallons of Coke, Milk, Bottled Water, etc. in a week This line of reasoning has been around forever and is retarded.

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 5:58 PM. Reason : k]

4/22/2008 5:58:28 PM

I consume 20 gallons of beer a week

4/22/2008 6:11:06 PM

Quote :

"Rat:look at all that land. ain't that some shit that we're paying this much and refuse to drill? too many nutsmakers in this country"

More like. . .

In relation to


So it is more like too many intellectually lazy people who can't read maps and are naive enough to think we can drill our way out of this problem.

Quote :

"Oeuvre:The problem: Environmentalism and liberals Reality (as was previously stated), Apathy, Greed and People in power with close ties to oil revenues."

Btw, environmentalism is never a problem.

Quote :

"HUR: I am definitely no green environmentalist..."

How sad.

4/22/2008 7:26:56 PM

Quote :

"^saying that you should compare the price of a gallon of gasoline to a gallon of any other commodity is GAY. Nobody consumes 20 gallons of Coke, Milk, Bottled Water, etc. in a week This line of reasoning has been around forever and is retarded. "

what is retarded is how the masses fail to recognize how valuable oil is. we get it at a fucking discount at $3.50/gallon for gas compared to everyone else and everything else rare/valuable in the world.

yes, it sucks to pay that much for gas, so quit bitching and get used to it/do something about it. buy less. get a 'green' car. ride a bike. but QUIT BITCHING. its not going down anytime soon.

4/23/2008 3:29:50 PM

^ why don't you quit bitching about people bitching

4/23/2008 4:10:12 PM

why dont you "go fly a kite"

4/23/2008 4:29:20 PM

That is actually not a bad idea except my baby kite (2.5 meter) is at home and thanks to gas prices being $Texas it is hard to get down to the beach to fly my big boy kite (12 meter)

4/23/2008 7:35:54 PM

Everyone that says we should get used to high gas prices and deal with it like over in Europe is full of shit. There are vast differences between Europe and here. Most of the expansion and development of the US has been designed around the automobile. Whereas in Europe that is not the case.

Saw a station today with premium for $4.05

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 7:50 PM. Reason : k]

4/23/2008 7:49:33 PM

Europeans have a shitload of tax on their gas.. Free healthcare and all.


Serious question, what happend to the plan to lower gas prices back in 06 the dems promised?

4/23/2008 7:57:29 PM

4/23/2008 8:18:08 PM

Quote :

"Everyone that says we should get used to high gas prices and deal with it like over in Europe is full of shit."

I wish I could remember where I read the statistics, but Americans still spend a smaller percentage of their PPP household income on energy, even at today's prices. This is because Americans enjoy a higher household income, cheaper electricity, and lower fuel taxes, all of which dominate the higher quantity of fuel purchased.

4/23/2008 8:33:19 PM

Really want to respond in more detail, but then I'll get in endless debates on this topic (of which i know much). I went to a Department of Energy (EIA actually) conference in DC 2 weeks ago. Very good. Let me just summarize my feelings:

Americans have to rethink they way they are using petrol. It doesnt matter if you believe in Peak Oil or not. I am actually glad gas prices are staying high, because we will soon have electric vehicles that are acceptable and attainable for the masses that will allow us to significantly cut back our use of oil for transportation. There needs to be incentives for people to get out of driving around a 15-17 MPG truck/SUV that hauls 6+ people when they are the only occupants 90% of the time. In other words, the market is working to fix this problem. I do think prices are inflated over what they should be, but given the U.S. dollar declines, tightness in the supply/demand market, and a rush to quality for investors (real goods), there is a lot to keep the prices high. I am personally holding off purchasing a new car (mine is 25 MPG) until the plug in hybrids come out in 1-3 years, then I'm pulling the trigger and buying. So, anyway, instead of griping about prices of gas, you should vote with your wallet, and drive something that is more efficient.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 1:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/24/2008 1:28:29 PM

Quote :

"plug in hybrids come out in 1-3 years"

yeah, good luck with that. They've been saying that for years.
Just last week I was listening to a science podcast and was going back trough old episodes, and one from 2005 said the exact same thing - "plug in hybrids will be here soon, they will be available on a large scale by 2008"

4/24/2008 1:38:30 PM

Ahm, yeah, they are. The GM team is working EXTREMELY aggressively to bring out the volt in 2010, latest 2011. Prices are pushing many majors, and many non majors, into planning plug in hybrids of some sort in the next 5 years.

The main problem people have had in the past is they did not want an electric car that would die on them on the road. Thus the plug in hybrid, which has a stand by gas engine to keep the batteries charged. Thats what is going to allow it to be adopted.

One other thing... In 2005, gas prices were not averaging 3.50 a gallon.

I am not talking about massive production figures in 2-3 years, however. It will be slow to start, then gain steam in the 5 years following their release. I think the electrification of the car is guaranteed as long as prices stay where they are.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 1:46 PM. Reason : .]

4/24/2008 1:42:59 PM

hey man, i'm on your side. I think plug-in hybrids would be great and I would love to see them, sooner the better. But that is just one of those technologies that always seems to be "2-3 years out", like fuel cells, OLED screens, e-ink, etc. But if they really are 1-3 years away, i think that's great.

It's unfortunate, though, that we didn't go with plug-in hybrids right from the beginning. They hybrid as it is now is an unnecessary step and just wasted time. I think the main reason (not having studied the history of all this) was that pure electric cars got a very bad rap in the early nineties because they were slow, had low range, and generally looked funny. So the car companies knew hybrids were going to be a tough sell already because of the stigma of the electric car, so they left out the plug-in part to try to distance themselves from electric cars in an attempt to show people that hybrids are "just like normal cars".
I wish they would have gone with plug-ins from the beginning, but made it abundantly clear to people that you don't have to plug it in, and there is a perfectly good gas engine still in the car. But i guess that's what they'll be doing in the next couple years.....

4/24/2008 1:53:41 PM

I hate paying a lot for gas, but the next car I buy still won't be influenced much by its fuel economy rating

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 1:55 PM. Reason : k]

4/24/2008 1:55:10 PM

You might rethink that if gas hits 6 and 7 a gallon. Unless you are only driving 3 to 4 miles to work.

I think many families are going to have their commuter car, and a family/weekend car. That will be the new model. Commuter will be highly efficient. weekend car will have more capabilities. I also think you will be in the minority. Most will be influeced. I make plenty of money. Its not that I couldnt afford a gas guzzler. But I am sick of paying so much money to fuel a car.

agentlion, I understand the doubt. However, with prices that have more than doubled in the last fews years with no end in site, I think the market is finally ready for PIH.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 2:16 PM. Reason : .]

4/24/2008 2:01:09 PM

^ yeah, we already moved to that model a few years back.

Jetta TDI for commuting, and 4runner for a "family/weekend car" although I currently commute with it as well until we move within biking distance to my job.

4/24/2008 2:15:15 PM

If gas hits $4.75 a gallon and stays there for more then a month, im going to make a LOL@LoneSnark thread.

4/24/2008 3:06:28 PM

Don't you owe me $100?

4/24/2008 3:17:05 PM

The bet has become pretty ironic at this point.

By the way.

4/24/2008 4:00:01 PM

What was the bet, and when was it placed?

4/24/2008 4:22:12 PM

If today was July 31, 2006 then I would have lost the bet by 20 cents. The bet was made one year before that. However, back in August 2006 New York Harbor Spot Prices (NYMEX) settled at $2.20 a gallon, fifty cents shy of the bet amount, thus I won. As I predicted he would, SandSanta proceeded to welch on the bet.

It was a silly bet as SandSanta did not even understand what he had agreed to. According to him, "First off, I have no idea where New York Harbor Gasoline is. If its in New York, and its that cheap then kudos for them." So, I cannot hold too much ill will towards him.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 6:15 PM. Reason : .,.]

4/24/2008 6:13:12 PM

i don't think we should be drilling the shit out of all of our domestic reserves

partially for environmental reasons, but mostly because i like having that ace in the hole.

4/24/2008 7:03:23 PM

Quote :

"I think many families are going to have their commuter car, and a family/weekend car. That will be the new model. Commuter will be highly efficient. weekend car will have more capabilities"

So what your saying is that every family would have AT LEAST three cars, because most families need two working adults to pay the bills. Add to that a few sixteen year old teenagers, and we're looking at standard 4 car garage houses.

4/24/2008 7:24:12 PM

it will be cheaper than the current status quo

4/24/2008 7:30:55 PM

Yea I wasn't aware we were betting on the commodity exchange price.

Regardless, its really not funny anymore and will be even less so @4$ a gallon.

4/24/2008 7:34:50 PM

Quote :

"If you want to argue that we need to drill anwr for national security reasons, you must guarantee that the oil goes to america and is not exported. none of the oil companies are willing to do that."

If we HAD to direct it to US exclusive use, we could do it. Sort of like a strategic reserve.

And oil isn't high enough. We need to tax it like 2 dollars more so that peak oil recession will be softened and people will actually change their lifestyles and cars so that they actually consume less oil.

4/24/2008 7:45:08 PM

I agree with taxing it, but hold off raising it until gas prices start falling. The current price is just about perfect, so keep it there and bankrupt the Shiek.

SandSanta, even if we took average Raleigh gas prices you still lost by 40 some-odd cents. Wait, don't you owe me $100?

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 8:23 PM. Reason : .,.]

4/24/2008 8:21:36 PM

Holy Fuck, they just said that tomorrow morning the price of gas on the NJ Turnpike is going up 22 cents.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 11:08 PM. Reason : oh so apparently they only change the prices at 12am Friday every week]

4/24/2008 11:08:29 PM

Only poor people bitch and change their plans b.c of gas prices.

If i want to go to the beach i am going. I am not Not going to go b.c i have to dish out an extra $10 in gas. who cares that is like 2 drinks at the bar. If nothing else it takes people off the road and makes my drive more enjoyable :-)

4/25/2008 10:31:58 AM

^that's incredibly shortsighted. Gas prices affect prices for nearly every product and service you can think of.

and tell the owner of a high gas consumption business that only "poor" people are affected.

4/25/2008 10:48:48 AM

Fuel is a tiny component of most products, except for fuel. As such, when fuel prices double most prices go up less than 1%.

Your second statement is absolutely right. Almost all of the short-term price elasticity comes from businesses. However, long term price elasticity come from both sectors. I suddenly noticed a disproportionate number of people I meet are moving closer to work now that home prices have fallen.

4/25/2008 11:11:13 AM

Even more ironic that my long term trend predictions have held true and yours haven't.

Wasn't gasoline supposed to be pretty cheap now, nearly two years later, that the market has had time to respond?

Maybe in five years we'll return to 2$ a gallon gas hmmm?

4/25/2008 11:40:24 AM

yall are some unpatriotic nigs...dont yall realize if gas goes up, the money iraq gets from that goes up...and iraqs money going up equals less us money that is needed...so technically oil is funding this war...

4/25/2008 11:42:55 AM

Last time i checked the iraqi oil wells were not flowing anywhere near full capacity

4/25/2008 12:16:04 PM

anytime crude looks like its getting toppy, we get headlines about some shit going down in the straits of hormuz

4/25/2008 1:24:29 PM

i'm seriously thinking about getting a motorcycle to commute to work and back.

4/25/2008 2:16:43 PM

Quote :

"Even more ironic that my long term trend predictions have held true and yours haven't. Wasn't gasoline supposed to be pretty cheap now, nearly two years later, that the market has had time to respond? Maybe in five years we'll return to 2$ a gallon gas hmmm?"

What long term prediction? The bet you made was over a one year time period, not exactly long term. But, if you want, I would make the exact same bet again: on April 25, 2009, NYH NYMEX gasoline will close at or below $4.0186 a gallon. Regretfully, you would never pay up, so what would be the point?

4/25/2008 2:26:28 PM

Yea I wouldn't pay up.

I also don't think the price of conventional gasoline would reach that.

Modified gasoline however, will.

4/25/2008 2:45:35 PM

Quote :

"i'm seriously thinking about getting a motorcycle to commute to work and back."

That's what I did and it was a great decision. I still have my truck as back up but the ride is really fun. I don't fret when I see gas going from $texas one day to $alaska even when I have to use premium.

4/25/2008 3:14:39 PM

Why do you have to use Premium in your motorcycle?

4/25/2008 6:06:30 PM

You are kidding, right?

4/25/2008 6:09:15 PM

The only motorcycle I ever owned was a dirt-bike, ran regular. Are we supposed to be born with Premium only motorcycle knowledge? I have no idea what to think, since instead of typing four words saying why, you chose to type four words playing question games. Perhaps I should guess. Is it because the engine is mistuned and therefore knocking? Perhaps it was designed with too-high a compression ratio? If so, why is that a secret?

4/25/2008 6:19:48 PM

Better performing fuel for a better performing engine.

4/25/2008 6:52:34 PM

Sounds like a commercial for a nasty tasting cereal.

4/25/2008 7:40:15 PM

Anybody in the 'burbs or the cunt-ry regret where they're at now?

4/25/2008 8:00:45 PM

I find it hilarious that people went to the NJ turnpike last night to fill up before the price went up 22 cents at midnight. I mean, for most people thats a savings of less than $3.00 for a tank. I almost feel that it was worth it for the guy with a boat on a trailer, but still, lol.

4/25/2008 11:56:58 PM