well, low taxes, less regulation and more freedom is what enables people to prosper in this country. class warfare, envy and government dependence do not

5/8/2008 2:10:24 PM

Quote :

"You know, some of us believe extra spending will make the country a stronger place."

I dont disagree with this at all. Investing in America is great. The question is do you want the government doing the investing?? They are just so wasteful and inefficient. (Take ethanol subsidies for example)

5/8/2008 2:11:43 PM

more welfare breeds yet again more welfare, when will people figure that out

dependence on anything is like living your life on crutches and never trying to walk

5/8/2008 2:12:18 PM

Ill be voting republican for pres. I hate that I am forced to pick the lesser of two evils. I hate that the republicans have really moved left, and W has really killed any momentum the conservative movement had. But between the choices we have, ill take the one that is less of a socialist, since fiscal responsiblity is my main issue. Its just unfortunate none of them offer any real chance of that.

5/8/2008 2:14:37 PM

Quote :

"the problem is that democrat welfare policies have been proven not to help those they are trying to help "

The democrats did a lot of welfare reform in the 90s - what has the GOP done to help welfare policies other than give people like you stuff to bitch and complain about?

5/8/2008 2:15:43 PM

Bring back the NRA and the CCC

5/8/2008 2:16:44 PM

Quote :

"republicans LOVE deficit spending, just more interest rich people earn on America's debt (treasury bonds) - while destroying the economy for the lower class (trickle down... my ass!). Republican gov't = wider gap between rich and poor"

Aw fuck, I've been saying this for the last year.

TRACK RECORD PEOPLE. It matters what happens to the deficit when your party has both congress and executive branches!

5/8/2008 2:17:43 PM

Bush has done a lot of welfare reform, but i guess people just forget that

Quote :

"I dont disagree with this at all. Investing in America is great. The question is do you want the government doing the investing?? They are just so wasteful and inefficient. (Take ethanol subsidies for example)"

yup

Quote :

"more welfare breeds yet again more welfare, when will people figure that out dependence on anything is like living your life on crutches and never trying to walk"

yup

5/8/2008 2:17:59 PM

Why do the democrats get the blame for welfare when they have done more to reduce welfare spending than the GOP?

Does anyone remember all the welfare reform that was going on a decade ago?

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:21 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 2:20:55 PM

Quote :

"well, low taxes, less regulation and more freedom is what enables people to prosper in this country."

I have nothing against this in principle. It's the reality of what today's party, especially folks like McCain, actually do that doesn't jive with this.

A "summer gas tax holiday" is going to help people prosper? No.

Stopping to fill the Strategic Petroleum Preserve to help people prosper? Probably not, and at a time when we're already vulnerable to international conflict's impact on gas prices... doesn't seem prudent.

There's more on his plan that isn't consistent with what you're saying, but what's more upsetting than any of that is this ridiculous deficit spending that both Bush and the Republican congress were just fine with from 2000 up until 2006. If he's truly going to do something about earmarking and pork barrel spending... He'll be the first Republican on the national scene to do so in quite a while.

5/8/2008 2:24:52 PM

well the dems plan of taxing oil companies and regulating the expansion of oil and new technology in this country is not going to help either.

5/8/2008 2:26:45 PM

Bush has spent the most on education than any other admin... and people bitch its not enough. hell even obama said we need to spend MORE.

Bush has spent more on Africa and foreign aid than any other president.

We are at war, which costs money.

What really really pisses me off about Bush is the lack of border control and the Medicare drug plan. Both total BS. He ignores the govts job by protecting its borders, while passes a drug plan which isnt the govts job, and creates another entitlement program we cant afford during a time of war.

People bitch about deficit spending, well we have always had this. I would like for someone to come along and change it, but you dont get elected cutting programs, esp when more and more people are growing dependent on them.

5/8/2008 2:33:20 PM

So should we go with McCain's feel-good for the consumer idea, with the hopes that "slowdown" will have sped up by the time the tax holiday is over?

Or go with the Democrat's ill fated redistribution of corporate wealth with the aim of putting that money to work in getting us oil-independent?

The point I'm making here isn't that today's Democratic candidates have all the answers, I certainly don't think so... but rather that the Republicans don't even act out the so-called fiscal conservatism that they spend every stump speech talking about.

5/8/2008 2:33:47 PM

I'd say ethanol subsidies are an example of bad policy, not governmental inefficiency. Katrina was the best example in the last couple decades of governmental inefficiency.

5/8/2008 2:35:31 PM

And bill clinton not taking out Osama Bin Laden in 1999 when he had the perfect opportunity? What would you call that?

5/8/2008 2:36:48 PM

Quote :

"People bitch about deficit spending, well we have always had this. I would like for someone to come along and change it, but you dont get elected cutting programs, esp when more and more people are growing dependent on them. "

No, Clinton couldn't erase the DEBT, but he definitely took the spending out of DEFICIT and created a SURPLUS that GWB immediately threw away once given the chance. I said threw away because it obviously didn't boost our economy - and now we have to borrow from China? wtf!

Quote :

"And bill clinton not taking out Osama Bin Laden in 1999 when he had the perfect opportunity? What would you call that? "

I don't know, it's fishy that neither him nor GWB seem to really want him dead. I think his family is friends of America or something. Shit, the dude probably isn't even real.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:37 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 2:36:52 PM

didn't clinton run a balanced budget?

^^no worse than Bush pandering about going after him, only to all but give it up when we went into Iraq.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:38 PM. Reason : late]

5/8/2008 2:37:12 PM

no, he ran a SURPLUS

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:39 PM. Reason : basically yes, he balanced the budget, and came out on top ]

5/8/2008 2:38:13 PM

I dont see how the tax holliday is a long term solution.. just as this stupid stimulus check is. I find the irony that the dems agree that the people having more money will inprove the economy, then want to raise taxes. LOL

Terp, you are a moron if you really think Clinton ran a surplus. He borrowed the money outta SS. So he borrowed the money to get your surplus. I wont take away that he was much much closer to balanced budget than most, but dont fucking kid yourself. That BS might work with most of your peer group, but many will laugh at your ignorance.

Also, most economist directly attribute the tax cuts for helping the economy, esp after 9/11.

5/8/2008 2:40:59 PM

Quote :

"Terp, you are a moron if you really think Clinton ran a surplus. He borrowed the money outta SS. So he borrowed the money to get your surplus. I wont take away that he was much much closer to balanced budget than most, but dont fucking kid yourself. That BS might work with most of your peer group, but many will laugh at your ignorance."

Oh really? He borrowed money to get the surplus, then GWB just decided to give it away huh? Why wasn't the money put back in SS? Isn't money fungible anyway? So what do you mean he borrowed out of SS to give us a surplus?


Are you sure you aren't just talking out of your ass?

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:48 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 2:47:28 PM

exactly, shifting around social security funds and re-writing your budget sheets just to lie to act as if your running a surplus doesn't count.

and the economy suffered from those choices pre 9/11.

5/8/2008 2:49:01 PM

Okay, well do either of you have any proof for this? I want to see how Bill Clinton cooked the books to make it appear that he balanced the budget when he actually was just lying.

5/8/2008 2:51:29 PM

Jesus, kid learn some fucking history.

Here is from Wiki.:

"The Republican takeover of Congress in 1994 led to a push for a balanced budget as part of the Republican Contract with America campaign, continuing deficit reductions by President Clinton consistent with his 1992 campaign promise. Despite political conflicts with President Clinton, the Legislature and the Chief Executive reduced the deficit. Major economic growth and spending controls such as welfare reform, favored by both the President and Congress, allowed for a balanced budget (when the Social Security surplus was counted as revenue) by early in Clinton's second term - considerably earlier than what Clinton's own projections for this had indicated and, afterwards, a surplus which actually allowed the retirement of some government debt.

Momentarily, the deficit issue faded from view. Despite the nominal surplus, the national debt grew each year of the Clinton presidency since the surplus is not applied against spending in this calculation."

Like I said, that BS might fly in your peer groups. Others just shake their head at your ignorance. By your logic. If you owe me 100 bucks, borrow 105 bucks from your mom...then claim to be on a SURPLUS.

I guess TO YOU talking out of your ass, means you know what you are talking about. Notice that despite your SURPLUS, our national debt continued to grow.

5/8/2008 2:56:40 PM

I AM A LIBERAL SHEEP, MUST NOT EVER LISTEN TO FACTS OR I RUN RISK OF BEING RACIST

5/8/2008 2:57:52 PM

so what is the republican excuse for not being able to do with while controlling all branches of the government?

5/8/2008 2:57:53 PM

a liberal congress that just wrecked the economy

5/8/2008 3:00:12 PM

^^^^That wiki passage just reaffirms all i've been saying

You bitch about welfare but when clinton was president welfare reform decreased that spending

You bitch about budget deficits when in fact the budget was balanced, even if the SS surplus was COUNTED, at least he didn't SPEND THE SURPLUS, or GIVE IT AWAY LIKE DUMB-ASS GWB

Quote :

"By your logic. If you owe me 100 bucks, borrow 105 bucks from your mom...then claim to be on a SURPLUS. "

that's just dumb and not relevant, he didn't borrow any money from SS. It was just counted when calculating the deficit or surplus... in this case surplus.

I shake my head at your ignorance



[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 3:05 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 3:01:52 PM

I agree nuts. However, 9/11 really hit us hard economically. The tax cuts helped, no doubt. Then the war came. All of those I agree with, and need funded. Its actually CREATING another entitlement during this time that is just mindboggling. And my main reason I dislike bush..the spending.

5/8/2008 3:02:15 PM

funny we all dislike bush for spending. when that's all the candidates lined up for president are going to do.

except these next candidates are going to tax the hell out of us. same story, different tax rate

5/8/2008 3:03:39 PM

5/8/2008 3:03:47 PM

Quote :

"I AM A LIBERAL SHEEP, MUST NOT EVER LISTEN TO FACTS OR I RUN RISK OF BEING RACIST"

just like you RAT, to bring up racism when it has no place in this conversation

BTW, it's funny you call anyone a sheep when you're the one who lifted Rush Limbaugh's words and used them verbatim right here:

message_topic.aspx?topic=512067&page=27

and got called out by marko

PS - only sheep use the word sheep, sheep. you're just like all the other sheep!



[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 3:06 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 3:05:02 PM

AND HOW TRUE THOSE WORDS ARE!

5/8/2008 3:06:02 PM

Quote :

"a liberal congress that just wrecked the economy"

which liberal congress are you talking about?

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 3:07 PM. Reason : .]

5/8/2008 3:06:11 PM

well shit was going fine until people got stupid and thought we needed an extra 10 liberals on the hill

then what happened? no not a katrina? not another 9/11? nope. nothing. they just had to cast a few votes and now the economy is in the shitter. at least the repubs handled it well when the goings got tough

nothing a democrat will ever claim. all they will ever claim is their next welfare and social security check and then claim that a racist handed it over to them.

5/8/2008 3:08:25 PM

Quote :

"Major economic growth and spending controls such as welfare reform, favored by both the President and Congress"

got me thinking about the specifics of the reform

Quote :

"The welfare "reform" of the Clinton era consists of two major elements: a revolutionary change in the basic goals set by the federal government; and a dramatic "devolution" of responsibility – turning what used to be a federal, centralized system over to the states. Reflecting the new federal mission, welfare rules now: Require most recipients to work within two years of receiving assistance, Limit most assistance to five years total, and Let states establish "family caps" to deny additional benefits to mothers for children born while the mothers are already on public assistance. "

congress was in republican control then, and they agreed with the clinton reform (which seems to have dramatically reduced "handouts"). There's another thread where many of the same "conservatives" are arguing points which seem to suggest that they support actions such as this (and spending controls), yet that was within a post designed to attack Clinton. I might be missing something, but it seems some people are more interested in blindly attacking anyone that identifies themselves as a Democrat than what their actual positions/contributions are.

5/8/2008 3:09:56 PM

hahah, my ignorance terp? By your own admission he spent the SS surplus to pay off debt correct? SS is a seperate tax that is used to provide retirement for our citizens. Taking away money that was SOLELY taxed for that ONE purpose, then spending it elsewhere is only taxing future generations for that money, esp when the demands on those funds with the retiring boomers.

Holly shit, do you just like to argue or are you that fucking dense? I even said, "I wont take away that he was much much closer to balanced budget than most". Im not bashing Clinton, im just correcting you on the BS SURPLUS you loved to BOLD.

The only thing my article proved was that you had no idea what the fuck you're talking about when you spouted off that BS.

5/8/2008 3:13:17 PM

^^That's why I told eyedrb "That wiki passage just reaffirms all i've been saying"

he's failing miserably today

Quote :

"By your own admission he spent the SS surplus to pay off debt correct?"

No, maybe you missed the part where I said money is fungible, and that money wasn't used to pay off the debt, it was kept as a surplus... then GWB gave it away as soon as he got in office because he didn't know what the fuck he was doing

I shake my head at your ignorance

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 3:14:09 PM

terpball, well i stand up next to a mountain, chop it down with the edge of my hand. lord knows i'm a voodoo child. awesome song

5/8/2008 3:20:54 PM

what bills has this supposed liberal congress passed to make our country go into the shitter? i thought the current congress was the do-nothing congress. and now they're the cause of our current economic situation, if i understand you correctly.

the truth is that the democrats have a working majority in the house, but in the senate they don't have enough to pass a filibuster (and certainly not enough to overturn a veto), so this whole "liberal congress" thing is just a name. it is not reflective of the actual situation in congress.

5/8/2008 3:49:08 PM

^exactly

which is why nobody is really able to get things done

honestly, we should just vote in obama, give him a congress that is 80-90% democratic and let them clean house for 4 years with no interruptions

i honestly bet that would solve a ton of problems... but if they fuck up, we will honestly know who to blame and then vote in the repubs for 4 years and see if they have any fixes. get my drift?

that sounds like progress to me

5/8/2008 4:04:13 PM

i'm really not trying to be difficult. but no, i don't.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 4:53 PM. Reason : (get your drift)]

5/8/2008 4:52:44 PM