I know the Reds got Volquez, so they can't be too upset about losing Hamilton

but imagine an outfield of Dunn Bruce and Hamilton for the next 5 years, with Votto at first

Only problem would be that their all lefty, so you'd need a couple decent righty bats to balance them out

5/28/2008 4:46:37 PM

Ohh no here comes the SI curse.....Josh is bound to get hurt....

5/28/2008 5:01:50 PM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/albert_chen/05/27/hamilton0602/

Nothing reallly new in it...

5/28/2008 5:01:50 PM

^^He's been extremely injury-prone ever since he was drafted.

It'll be surprising if he makes it through the season without spending time on the DL.

5/28/2008 5:19:49 PM

As much as I love having him on my fantasy team, and as much as I'm against his story as its saying "Fuck your life up with drugs, you can still make it in the MLB!!", the more i read about him the more I admire him, he seems like a class act.

5/28/2008 5:30:53 PM

wasn't he already on the cover like 2-3 years ago? or did he just have probably the same article written in one? maybe it was ESPN the Magazine

5/28/2008 8:06:00 PM

He hit a homer in each of the last 2 nights. He now leads the league in RBIs by 13, with 63.

6/2/2008 5:10:32 AM

so glad i picked this guy up in the 17th round of my league

6/2/2008 5:29:16 AM

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080602&content_id=2821927&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

First ever AL player to get Player of the Month for April and May.

6/3/2008 8:48:51 AM

dunno if its been mentioned, but from what I've heard he was one of those kids who never touched a drop of alcohol growing up and so once he got in the wreck and got on pain meds, he got hooked and shit spiraled downward...but its not like he was abusing drugs and getting into trouble throughout his youth

6/3/2008 11:30:26 AM

he was at the cage the night of his senior prom if that answers your question

6/3/2008 11:46:11 AM

yeah that sounds about right...i cant hate on the dude, A. cause he's balling out on my fantasy team, and B. he seems like he was doing all the right things up until his car wreck

6/3/2008 11:49:24 AM

went yard off that fucker in legion ball

oh, and you should see that dude's feet. size 19 kid looks like a clown and still runs a 4.4

6/3/2008 3:48:01 PM

^go yard off him at apex (old dimensions) or on a respectable field?

6/3/2008 4:59:38 PM

I've been struck out by a former minor leaguer

6/3/2008 5:18:16 PM

2 more RBI (2-run shot) so far tonight

100 ribbies by the all-star break

6/3/2008 8:54:15 PM

in case anyone is curious the AL season record for RBIs is 184 set by Lou Gehrig in 1931. josh has a legit shot at this record at this pace and it would be awesome to see him break a record that's been held for that long by a guy like Gehrig. (the NL record is 191 set by Hack Wilson in 1930) RBI records really dont get talked about that much for some reason... i had no idea who held either of these and neither did the guys announcing the braves game tonight when they were talking about this.

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 10:39 PM. Reason : ]

6/3/2008 10:31:13 PM

i really doubt he'll keep up this pace. dozens of guys start off at torrid paces every year and then lose steam into the summer. not saying its impossible, but there's a reason that record has stood for so long

6/3/2008 10:34:32 PM

went yard off him at apex, but c'mon man, give me a break

6/3/2008 11:38:09 PM

Quote :

"RBI records really dont get talked about that much for some reason"

Because RBI is a stupid stat?

Quote :

"i had no idea who held either of these and neither did the guys announcing the braves game tonight when they were talking about this."

I don't know who calls games on Peachtree TV, but there's no way they didn't know this.

6/3/2008 11:46:30 PM

Anyone who doesn't know Hack Wilson holds the single season RBI record doesn't really follow baseball. That is one of the better known single season records in baseball.

And they talk about it a lot, but Hamilton isn't even on pace for it. Back when Manny had like 80 by early June a few seasons ago it was talked about a lot.

*** Hamilton is a flat out stud though. He is stepping up the HRs now... his OPS is now over 1.000

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 11:50 PM. Reason : x]

6/3/2008 11:50:13 PM

Quote :

"i had no idea who held either of these and neither did the guys announcing the braves game tonight when they were talking about this."

I almost called you an idiot because I knew it was Hack Wilson with the ML lead, but I didn't see that you put AL first. But anyways, the RBI is very dependent on other people. You can hit for average or hit HRs but you can't get RBI unless people are on base, which has nothing to do with you. Yes, there are people that have a knack for getting RBI (Manny Ramirez comes to mind, and I think he's in the top 3 or 4 all time single season) and of course it would be awesome to knock out somebody like Gehrig, but it's still not a stat you can control all that much.

ok, ramirez was 13th in 99

Quote :

"went yard off him at apex, but c'mon man, give me a break "

Haha that's awesome, like 295 feet to the fence. Did they redo that field, i haven't been there in like 6 years?

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 11:58 PM. Reason : manram]

6/3/2008 11:56:54 PM

Quote :

"I don't know who calls games on Peachtree TV, but there's no way they didn't know this."

i think it was chip and joe and i caught the tail end of the conversation but i do think they knew the mlb record... just didnt know the AL record

6/4/2008 12:11:14 AM

^^I have no idea if they backed the fence up as I haven't been by there in a few years, but I actually hit it to left center where they had the big wall, so it's not like I hit it to the right corner where it was 295 like you said. But yeah, Apex was one of the smaller fields in the conference. My senior year I think we led the state in HR's. I hit two against Triton and I think our team had like seven in the game including a buddy of mine who hit two in one inning.

6/4/2008 12:21:52 PM

2 run walk off bomb versus the best closer in baseball...

7/9/2008 11:07:25 PM

I have both on my fantasy team....

Makes me and

7/9/2008 11:21:38 PM

thought this was pretty cool...

http://www.wral.com/sports/story/3186918/

7/11/2008 7:47:04 AM

^That is pretty awesome. I would probably pitch horrible under those circumstances, but I bet that guy could throw strikes with his eyes closed.

7/11/2008 8:01:26 AM

wow, he is gonna be the golden boy of baseball come Tuesday morning


even moreso than he is already

7/11/2008 9:02:51 AM

after his 2 RBI's yesterday (and 1 homer and 1 steal), Hamilton now has 91 RBIs on the year

7/11/2008 11:45:02 AM

^^^^

It's pretty damn cool. I just got off the phone with Clay and he is excited as hell. I've known Clay since I knew what a baseball was and he is a legend without a doubt.

It would be even better if Clay walked out to the mound wearing his old khaki's and old red worn out t-shirt.

The ESPN announcers are going to have a field day with Clay.

7/11/2008 1:03:28 PM

Would really be awesome if Josh won that thing too....

7/12/2008 1:25:24 AM

LOL, RBI's is a stupid stat?

Yeah, I guess scoring runs doesn't matter.


Over the course of 600 plate appearances there isn't THAT much discrepancy as to how many RBI opportunities you have. If you hit for power you will drive in runs, period. I don't care where you play. Obviously, you'll have a few more in Texas, Boston, NYY then you would have in Pitt, SD, etc but give me a break.

Some guys are good with runners on base and some aren't.

7/12/2008 3:10:49 PM

the main discrepancy is probably batting order...Hamilton has TWICE as many RBIs as Ian Kinsler who bats 1st in their lineup...hard to get RBIs on anything but solo homers if ~150 of your at bats are guaranteed to have no men on base

but yeah saying RBIs is a stupid stat is like saying assists in basketball are a stupid stat

7/12/2008 3:15:58 PM

RBI is a stupid stat because it's so dependent on the people around you. It isn't a very good metric for individual ability.

7/12/2008 3:16:00 PM

BP said it better than I could

Quote :

" Many of the stats you encounter in mainstream baseball circles are what we call "counting stats." That is, they count things: 23 homers, 107 RBI, six triples, etc. This may sound painfully obvious, but the more a hitter plays in a given season, the higher his counting stats are likely to be. Some counting stats, like RBI and runs scored, are highly team and batting-order dependent. A cleanup hitter logging 600 plate appearances in a potent lineup must work very hard not to rack up at least 100 RBI. Whereas a leadoff hitter on an otherwise weak offensive team won't crack the 100-RBI mark no matter how effective he is. If a superior player is surrounded by weak hitters, it's entirely possible that he'll cash in on a much greater percentage of his RBI opportunities and still have a lower RBI total than a lesser player in a stronger lineup. The thing to understand about counting stats is that, absent supporting information, they're really only useful at the margins. That's to say, it's hard to rack up 140 RBI and somehow stink. Conversely, it's difficult to log a season's worth of plate appearances, total 40 RBI and somehow be any good. The flip side of this is that it's entirely possible, especially in eras conducive to run scoring, to break the vaunted 100-RBI barrier and still be an ineffective player. It's debatable what the worst 100-RBI season is, but Ruben Sierra in 1993 may be hard to beat. More later on why he was a lousy player that season. So, highly context-dependent counting stats like RBI and runs scored can be inflated or deflated by a panoply of factors that have nothing to do with that hitter's true abilities. One of the prevailing missions of sabermetrics is to evaluate the player in a vacuum: What's he doing independently of his teammates and environment? Using only RBI or runs scored to judge a player or to frame an argument at the tavern is a fool's errand. "

Quote :

"# Counting stats (RBI, HR, runs scored) aren't very informative because they're highly context dependent and don't account for how many outs a player is using up. # Percentage stats are far better than counting stats, but only in the presence of a sizeable data sample (i.e., plate appearances). # Percentage stats are only negligibly influenced by teammates and lineup slotting, but, like all traditional statistics, they are influenced by ballpark and historical era. # Players at the corner positions generally produce better offensive numbers than those players at the more vital up-the-middle positions. # AVG isn't really useful unless viewed in tandem with OBP, SLG and plate appearances. # And the greatest of these is OBP because it can also tell you how often a player creates outs at the plate. "

I'm not saying Hamilton isn't a pretty good player; but to say he's pretty good because of his RBI puts you in the Joe Morgan zone.

[Edited on July 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM. Reason : ]

7/12/2008 3:23:20 PM

lots of stats in many sports are dependent on your teammates, but when they directly impact the final score, i wouldn't call them stupid

i agree that batting order can severely sway RBI numbers though, and also that a player on a team like the Nationals or Pirates might not have as many RBIs as someone on the Rangers or Phillies

although Adrian Gonzalez plays on one of the worst teams in the majors in San Diego, and he has managed to get 71 RBIs on the season

7/12/2008 3:23:34 PM

Quote :

"but when they directly impact the final score, i wouldn't call them stupid"

I see what you're saying, but I think you're misunderstanding me. RBI are important because they bring runs home, no is dumb enough to argue against that. But RBI tell you next to nothing about a player's individual ability.

[Edited on July 12, 2008 at 3:28 PM. Reason : ]

7/12/2008 3:26:15 PM

nah i'm with you, and I agree OBP, SLG and OPS are more telling

still though, chicks dig the long ball

and i do think if he finishes with 175 or some massive number of RBIs, THAT would be pretty telling of his abilities

7/12/2008 3:27:14 PM

Quote :

"The thing to understand about counting stats is that, absent supporting information, they're really only useful at the margins."

7/12/2008 3:28:51 PM

I'm more with Ernie on this, and I'll use Pat Burrell as my example here

Most people are probably like "Pat Burrell ? He sucks cock !"

But I'd argue he's having just as good a year as Hamilton

First of all the similarities...they both play in great hitter's parks, they both play in great lineups, and they both have about the same number of home runs (Burrell 22, Hamilton 21)

Now look at the RBIs..Hamilton has 93, Burrell has 54

Just over halfway thru the season, that is a HUGE discrepancy...based on that stat alone, you'd think Hamilton was having twice the year Burrell was. But look further into and you'll see that outside of that statistic, there's really not much separation between the two.

Burrell is hitting about .280, but he's walked 69 times already, so his OBP is .410

Hamilton is hitting .313, but he's walked only 36 times, so his OBP is just .369

Burrell's OPS is 5th in all of baseball...Hamilton's is 14th

Burrell's slugging is somewhat higher as well (.577 to .560)

So why the huge RBI discrepancy ?

A few reasons...Hamilton typically hits 3rd, behind Ian Kinsler and Michael Young, who are always on base. He also doesn't have the picher hitting 9th so the 9 hitter is probably on for him at least 28 percent of the time. Burrell hits 5th, behind Utley and Howard, who have 84 and 69 rbi's, repspectively. With those 2 guys driving everyone in (including themselves a lot of the time), Burrell often comes up with the bases empty.

Look at the opportunities for RBIs here...Hamiliton has 112 at bats with RISP, Burrell has 65. Now Hamiliton is hitting .330 there compared to Burrell's .277, but he has nearly twice the attempts. It was nothing he did as a player to get all those chances; it was completely reliant on the runners in front of him. Just as Burrell hitting behind two of the Major League's top home run hitters is no fault of his own.

Now Hamilton is having a great year and should be recognized for it, but this just goes to show that not all statistics are created equal. Just as Steve Nash's assist totals would drop if he played on the Bobcats, and Tom Brady's TD passes would drop if he played for the Vikings, Hamilton's RBI totals would drop if he played for a lesser team as well.

[Edited on July 12, 2008 at 4:13 PM. Reason : x]

7/12/2008 4:12:43 PM

Hamilton also has 30 MORE HITS than Burrell

Burrell is a great player but he's also not from Raleigh

7/12/2008 4:29:39 PM

and 33 less walks

7/12/2008 4:32:12 PM

sounds like one of us has Burrell on their fantasy team and walks isnt a category and they're pissed lol

7/12/2008 4:36:39 PM

Quote :

"and 33 less walks"

And??

Walks don't give you immediate runs unless the bases are loaded. With Burrell batting 5th, and he walks, I bet less 6th and 7th hitters drive him in. He should probably go after some of those pitches and drive in those 3rd and 4th batters that might be on base, rather than take a pitch and get stranded on base.

Not that its even close to being directly correlated because of their differences in the batting order, but despite all the walks and better OBP that Burrell has, Hamilton has still scored 12 more runs.

7/13/2008 9:39:34 AM

And runs tell us even less about a guy's ability than his RBI. I think you're missing the point.

7/13/2008 11:28:06 AM

I was just referring to the walks and OBP.

As 4/5/6 hitter...you want to hit and drive in the runners that should already be on base...because you can't rely on the hitters behind you to drive you in. So even though a walk is not a bad thing, maybe Burrell should take a crack at an outside pitch a little more often and the RBI discrepancy wouldn't be so big.

The OBP and walks stat is nicer for the 1,2, and sometimes 3 hitters. Not a good state to compare hitters in the 3 and 5 positions.

7/13/2008 11:47:10 AM

Quote :

"Now Hamilton is having a great year and should be recognized for it, but this just goes to show that not all statistics are created equal. Just as Steve Nash's assist totals would drop if he played on the Bobcats, and Tom Brady's TD passes would drop if he played for the Vikings, Hamilton's RBI totals would drop if he played for a lesser team as well."

That's a faulty analogy. All those other people you mentioned are on great teams.

The Rangers suck.

For example, how would Hamilton's numbers look if he were on the Cubs or the Angels?

7/13/2008 11:48:01 AM

the rangers are one of the better offensive teams in baseball

[Edited on July 13, 2008 at 11:55 AM. Reason : thats better]

7/13/2008 11:48:50 AM

The NL leaders in walks are Burrell, Dunn, Helton, and Pujols -- and Pujols is the only one with a significant number of IBB. You want your 3-4-5 hitters to be able to take a walk just as well as your 1-2 hitters. Please don't tell me you "don't want 'em cloggin' the bases".

[Edited on July 13, 2008 at 11:52 AM. Reason : ]

7/13/2008 11:51:17 AM