So basically when Obama mispeaks it's because he's only human, but when McCain mispeaks then corrects himself it's because he's an incompetent hawk?

5/28/2008 2:44:08 PM

or vice versa

it never ends

2cds on endless loop

5/28/2008 3:04:38 PM

If you're trying to say the left and right are 100% equally prone to lame attacks, please note that there's no thread about McCain's pastor mumbo jumbo.

5/28/2008 3:09:17 PM

^^^ Pretty much. McCain’s gaffe is really not that big. Indeed, Iran IS assisting sunni militant groups in Iraq (though not al Qaeda) and probably even arming them. That’s a fact Obama apparently didn’t know about.

[Edited on May 28, 2008 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ``]

5/28/2008 3:11:12 PM

Iran is funding the Shia, not the Sunnis. Iran gets nothing out of funding the Sunnis.

Even that claim is tenuous at best.

[Edited on May 28, 2008 at 3:13 PM. Reason : .]

5/28/2008 3:13:35 PM

As I said...Iran has assisted Sunni militants

Quote :

""“We have in fact found some cases recently where Iranian intelligence sources have provided to Sunni insurgent groups some support,” said General Caldwell, who sat near a table crowded with weapons that he said the military contended were largely of Iranian manufacture. The accusation of a link between the Iranian intelligence service and Sunni Arab insurgents is new. ""

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/world/middleeast/11cnd-iraq.html

and probably even armed them

Quote :

"Arms that American military officials say appear to have been manufactured in Iran as recently as last year have turned up in the past week in a Sunni-majority area, the chief spokesman for the American military command in Iraq said Wednesday in a news conference. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/world/middleeast/11cnd-iraq.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

5/28/2008 3:19:58 PM

The US Government hasn't provided evidence to support that assertion, even though the assertion first began to be made a year ago, as your links suggest.

http://www.alternet.org/audits/86280/

Quote :

"The U.S. military command in Iraq continues to talk about an alleged pipeline of Iranian weapons to Iraqi Shiites opposing the U.S. occupation, implying that they have become dependent on Iran for indirect-fire weapons and rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs). But U.S. officials have failed thus far to provide evidence that would support that claim, and a long-delayed U.S. military report on Iranian arms is unlikely to offer any data on what proportion of the weapons in the hands of Shiite fighters are from Iran and what proportion comes from purchases on the open market "

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003798525

Quote :

"Also today from Agence France-Press: “Iraq said on Sunday it has no evidence that Iran was supplying militias engaged in fierce street fighting with security forces in Baghdad. “Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said there was no 'hard evidence' of involvement by the neighbouring Shiite government of Iran in backing Shiite militiamen in the embattled country. Asked about reports that weapons captured from Shiite fighters bore 2008 markings suggesting Iranian involvement, Dabbagh said: ‘We don't have that kind of evidence... If there is hard evidence we will defend the country.’""

The only real evidence of Iran supporting the insurgents comes from the Brits claiming Iran funded JAM (Shia militia) to attack British soldiers.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/me_iran0185_05_28.asp

Where is the evidence. It's taken them quite a bit of time to provide it. And it better be better than the insinuations that got us involved in the war in the first place.

5/28/2008 3:42:52 PM

^ The US goverment is lying! See, a blogger/editorial column said so!

Even if we take your second "source" seriously (a blog entry repeating unlined news reports), a blog post reporting on unlinked news stories, you will see that the Iraqi government has actually formed a committe to investigate and gather evidence on the issue!

Quote :

" The government spokesman, Ali al Dabbagh, told reporters Sunday that a committee was formed to find ‘tangible information’ about foreign intervention, specifically Iran's role in Iraq rather than ‘information based on speculation."

In other words, your best argument essentially boild down to "Iran is only possibly arming sunni militants." Way to go.

And neither of these “sources” addresses the military’s claims that there are specific cases of Iranian intelligence assisting sunni militants. They only address the arming issue.

[Edited on May 28, 2008 at 4:03 PM. Reason : ``]

5/28/2008 4:02:12 PM

How about you post an up-to-date article on the matter. They've had over a year, where is the evidence? Also, if you took the time to delve into the subject, you see they are talking about Sunnis, not Shias.

Even the government has abandoned the argument that Iran is supplying sunni insurgents. We've already had this conversation in another thread in which your lunacy was shown.

I also love how you call the sources a blog when if you took the time to learn about the sources you wouldn't make such stupid outlandish statements.

5/28/2008 5:38:26 PM

From a month ago:

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. military says it has found caches of newly made Iranian weapons in Iraq, leading senior officials to conclude Tehran is continuing to funnel armaments into Iraq despite its pledges to the contrary.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120908648760443713.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

5/28/2008 6:14:18 PM

and if you took the time to research that claim, you would have learned that the military backed away from that one as well.

5/28/2008 6:54:27 PM

Im not doubting you, but I would like to read what you saw. Do you have a link to it?

5/28/2008 7:02:24 PM

yeah i'd like to see that as well

5/28/2008 7:05:49 PM

Quote :

"We stated that one group of munitions -- not necessarily among those cited by Bergner -- had been scheduled for viewing by some media during an event in Karbala arranged by the Iraqi military. But U.S. explosives experts, taking a closer look at the items, concluded they did not include Iranian items."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/05/iraq-setting-th.html

That is just part of the story.

Also included in the Wall Street Journal article was this paragraph:

Quote :

"The allegations, which couldn't be independently verified, mark a further hardening of U.S. rhetoric on Iran, which senior American officials now describe as the greatest long-term threat to Iraq."

I need verified evidence, not just the word of people. Verification of it has not come around yet. There is the new allegation, in a leaked British document, that Iran was supplying weapons to Shia militias in Southern Iraq to use against the British forces.

5/28/2008 7:26:55 PM

Quote :

"Asked recently about alleged Iranian arms in Iraq, the No. 2 commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Lloyd Austin III, said it was up to the Iraqis to unveil them, since they were captured on Iraqi territory by Iraqi forces. He said there was no question that arms "have continued to make their way across the border.""

Nuts, that was toward the end of the blog you posted.

Do you think the Iranians are sending in weapons to iraq? I do, but what is your opinion on it.

btw, thanks for the link.

5/28/2008 7:35:56 PM

isnt CS computer science?

also im from the smug capital of the world San Fran.

eat shiiiiiiit

5/28/2008 8:58:37 PM

^^I think it is highly probable that Iran is providing weapons to Iran. That said, however, I think it is wrong for the United States government to claim it without providing evidence of that. Currently, the administration has an integrity debt when it concerns what countries are providing/have weapons. I need more than a claim, and on going claim at that, before I will accept it.

Since 2006, the current administration has been claiming Iranian support for the insurgents but has not provided the evidence. And I don't want anyone to think this is the partisan in me. Much of my suspicion is a direct result of the United States claims in the Balkans that were later refuted by independent bodies.

5/28/2008 10:43:37 PM

I agree with you about having some integrity issues esp when it comes to intel.

However, I dont feel many generals would be part of the coverup/misinformation campaign. Call my naive. I too feel iran is sending in weapons, but I think the issue is more complex due to the long term issues between Iran and Iraq after we leave. Just my opinion.

5/29/2008 9:42:21 AM

something i dont understand...they always talk about finding weapons with "iranian markings" on them


a) couldnt the US put those markings there just to make iran look bad? doesnt seem like it would be that hard
b)why wouldnt iran put like syrian or some other countrys markings on the weapons to keep the heat off them?

5/29/2008 1:38:57 PM

No dude, you can tell where a weapon is from generally from how it's made/how sophisticated it is. These weapons are probably fairly sophisticated so they aren't coming from Iraq and the way they're made points to Iran. I'm with everyone else here pretty much. I believe Iran is sending weapons and training over, but we have so little political capital left on the international stage that we can't possibly have another fuck up before Bush is gone.

5/29/2008 1:45:30 PM

we got some help this week from the IAEA at least, in regards to political capital

5/29/2008 1:48:09 PM

This is so trivial compared to the real problems the democratic AND republican parties have ideologically.

5/29/2008 2:04:17 PM

Barack Gaffes
The Obama machine.

Quote :

"All it takes is one gaffe to taint a Republican for life. The political establishment never let Dan Quayle live down his fateful misspelling of 'potatoe.' The New York Times distorted and misreported the first President Bush's questions about new scanner technology at a grocers' convention to brand him permanently as out of touch. But what about Barack Obama? The guy's a perpetual gaffe machine. Let us count the ways, large and small, that his tongue has betrayed him throughout the campaign: * Last May, he claimed that tornadoes in Kansas killed a whopping 10,000 people: 'In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died — an entire town destroyed.' The actual death toll: 12. * Earlier this month in Oregon, he redrew the map of the United States: 'Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go.' * Last week, in front of a roaring Sioux Falls, S.D., audience, Obama exulted: 'Thank you, Sioux City. ... I said it wrong. I’ve been in Iowa for too long. I'm sorry.' * Explaining last week why he was trailing Hillary Clinton in Kentucky, Obama again botched basic geography: 'Sen. Clinton, I think, is much better known, coming from a nearby state of Arkansas. So it's not surprising that she would have an advantage in some of those states in the middle.' On what map is Arkansas closer to Kentucky than Illinois? * Obama has as much trouble with numbers as he has with maps. Last March, on the anniversary of the Bloody Sunday march in Selma, Ala., he claimed his parents united as a direct result of the civil rights movement: 'There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Ala., because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born.' Obama was born in 1961. The Selma march took place in 1965. His spokesman, Bill Burton, later explained that Obama was “speaking metaphorically about the civil-rights movement as a whole.” * Earlier this month in Cape Girardeau, Mo., Obama showed off his knowledge of the war in Afghanistan by homing in on a lack of translators: 'We only have a certain number of them, and if they are all in Iraq, then it's harder for us to use them in Afghanistan.' The real reason it's 'harder for us to use them' in Afghanistan: Iraqis speak Arabic or Kurdish. The Afghanis speak Pashto, Farsi, or other non-Arabic languages. * Over the weekend in Oregon, Obama pleaded ignorance of the decades-old, multibillion-dollar massive Hanford nuclear-waste cleanup: 'Here's something that you will rarely hear from a politician, and that is that I’m not familiar with the Hanford, uuuuhh, site, so I don't know exactly what's going on there. (Applause.) Now, having said that, I promise you I'll learn about it by the time I leave here on the ride back to the airport.' I assume on that ride, a staffer reminded him that he's voted on at least one defense-authorization bill that addressed the 'costs, schedules, and technical issues' dealing with the nation's most contaminated nuclear-waste site. * Last March, the Chicago Tribune reported this little-noticed nugget about a fake autobiographical detail in Obama’s Dreams from My Father: 'Then, there's the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don't exist, say the magazine's own historians.' * And in perhaps the most seriously troubling set of gaffes of them all, Obama told a Portland crowd over the weekend that Iran doesn't 'pose a serious threat to us' — cluelessly arguing that 'tiny countries' with small defense budgets can't do us harm — and then promptly flip-flopped the next day, claiming, 'I've made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave.' Barack Obama — promoted by the Left and the media as an all-knowing, articulate, transcendent Messiah — is a walking, talking gaffe machine. How many more passes does he get? How many more can we afford?"

http://tinyurl.com/66v9dn

5/29/2008 5:26:47 PM

Quote :

"rat is about to get suspended "

thank god...i just noticed this

5/29/2008 5:51:56 PM

5/29/2008 5:55:02 PM

^^^What a bunch of nitpicky busybodies.

5/29/2008 6:02:23 PM

^^ looks like the readership of National Review.

you know, the kind of people who cut-and-paste wholesale, pad the lack of any original insight with the heavy use of emoticons, and think it somehow makes them appear like a smart feller

5/29/2008 6:19:15 PM

hooksaw,

the only gaffes in there that are of concern are the tornado, selma, Hanford, and Iran. Those show a combination of misleading, exhaggerating, and just plain ignorance. However, the other ones are just mistakes that are very understandable with this guys schedule.

5/29/2008 7:29:22 PM

wow this thread isnt locked?

Joe Schmoe for mod

6/5/2008 2:50:26 PM

^ LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS

6/5/2008 6:44:14 PM

^^ actually, through no effort of mine, this thread took off into a fairly productive debate. relatively speaking, of course... this is TSB after all

6/5/2008 8:32:30 PM

remember when this idiot said he should be mod of TSB

6/5/2008 8:33:19 PM

i made a good case at the time

why? cause i'd have put you and your buttbuddy State409c/etc. right in the box with no hesitation.

i will admit, though, TSB seems to have improved QUITE A BIT since it was wallowing in the shit with you and your fuckbuddy constantly jerking each other off in every thread.

looks like we got a new one tho... RAT is actually out-stupiding everyone here.








[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 8:50 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2008 8:46:25 PM

and if you had a smidgen of consistency you would suspend yourself in a heartbeat

i mean fuck, you wouldve locked this thread and put yourself in the box for a couple days as soon as it was created

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 8:51 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2008 8:49:20 PM

why? im NOT mod, so i dont have to act like a mod.

if i WERE a mod, i'd act like a mod.

since im not gonna ever BE a mod, it doesnt fucking matter.

i also dont care because i have nowhere NEAR the amount of free time that i had when i made my brief run for it. i wouldnt have time to do it even if i wanted to now.




[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 8:53 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2008 8:52:34 PM

that doesnt change the fact that you're the exact type of user that you claim you'd immediately suspend

6/5/2008 8:53:24 PM

not hardly. i dont consistently shit in threads like you and your fuckbuddy State409c were doing. and i dont continually spew insane amounts of utter stupidity every where i go like Rat does.

yea, i fuck around here a bit. but no more than half the other people. I think i moderate pretty well. i contribute far more serious stuff than silly shit.

i also dont pic bomb threads. how long were you in the box for those shenanigans?





[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 9:01 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2008 8:55:56 PM

Quote :

"not hardly. i dont consistently shit in threads like you and your fuckbuddy State409c were doing. and i dont continually spew insane amounts of utter stupidity every where i go like Rat does."

actually you do

and i was in the box for probably 10 days...it was against the rules, so i didnt mind much...but it was a thread in TSB calling out my name in the title, that literally had ZERO to do with me, so thats the only reason I pic bombed it (fyi)

6/5/2008 8:57:40 PM

Quote :

"actually you do"

no, actually, i don't. If I was fucking up threads, I'd get the boot just like anyone else. Here's the key, though. I don't fuck up threads.


And this WAS a serious thread by the way. the title was an attention grabber, but my content was dead on and accurate. The title was just a visible example of how its hard not to get frustrated by blatant stupidity.




[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 9:01 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2008 9:00:54 PM

are you stupid?


wtf

6/6/2008 8:52:23 AM

I really wish I could see how this argument would be handled in person.

6/6/2008 9:08:16 AM

Quote :

"SB ismyfuture13: stfu nothing22: so go on about your business nothing22: and good luck with puberty SB ismyfuture13: hahaha very funny SB ismyfuture13: already gone through that SB ismyfuture13: NOT!!! SB ismyfuture13: go find a date at screwyourself.com nothing22: are you serious? nothing22: that's the retort? SB ismyfuture13: yes SB ismyfuture13: no you are the retart SB ismyfuture13: learn how to spell retart nothing22: you have no clue what you're talking about SB ismyfuture13: wt SB ismyfuture13: LOSER!"

6/6/2008 9:11:00 AM

6/6/2008 10:34:24 AM