6/9/2008 5:00:34 PM

DNL is a perfect example of what France would be if it had a TWW sn. He changes his mind so much and he tends to go with whatever tickles his pickle in a particular moment.

No, DNL, you didn't choose to live here, but you CAN choose to GTFO. No? Why? Is that France calling for daddy USA with the big guns because other people are mean to him?

And LiusClues, why don't you be just a little honest? Instead of accepting a reduced rate of education to further yourself on the back of the AMERICAN DOLLAR which you so despise, why don't you give it up? Why don't you pay the full tuition load? You don't need us slimy American infidel bastards anyway... Man the fuck up or shut the fuck up. If you hate this place, quit basking in its rewards who were bought by fighter pilots like John McCain.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 5:41 PM. Reason : .]

6/9/2008 5:38:11 PM

6/9/2008 5:43:38 PM

This is all the GOP got, otherwise, this election is a blowout.

6/9/2008 5:49:02 PM

honest question for the liberals on this board: what do you think of what that bastard LiusClues is saying? Honestly?

6/9/2008 5:54:38 PM

the 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001% liberal part of me says, go back to china and take it up the ass from that government if you want to piss on the men and women that made this country so great


you could honestly go back there and get shitfucked by the earthquakes that just killed 1/2 of your cousins. but no. you choose to take a dump on the war heroes that saved a spot in life for you to rob the US GOVERNMENT for some loans i'm sure you'll never pay back once you jump ship back to china.

6/9/2008 5:58:47 PM

i'm more independent than liberal but I think those posts slurring his service are pretty outrageous and ridiculous. However, similarly - his service giving him more rights to the presidency over Obama are also pretty ridiculous.

Rat, your posts are some of the most childish things I've ever read. How old are you again?

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 5:59 PM. Reason : -]

6/9/2008 5:59:02 PM

Quote :

"his service giving him more rights to the presidency over Obama are also pretty ridiculous."

lots of people think its pretty ridiculous that an unexperienced senator with no military experience whatsoever should be elected into a position that entails Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces as part of the job

6/9/2008 6:03:01 PM

^^^^ What do you think about what the things Ray often says?

^ a lot of people also think a rags-to-riches background makes someone qualified to determine policy that encourages other people to have the same story.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 6:08 PM. Reason : ]

6/9/2008 6:03:14 PM

Quote :

"men and women that made this country so great"

Bombing villagers from a plane = making this country so great

6/9/2008 6:04:18 PM

Quote :

" i'm more independent than liberal but I think those posts slurring his service are pretty outrageous and ridiculous. "

I'm glad to hear that and it is a complete valid opinion to say that his war hero status does not make him more deserving to be President. I digress, but it's a valid opinion.

I consider you, Kanien, to be pretty far left from what I've read and even still, I'm glad that LiusClues' spew doesn't resonate.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 6:05 PM. Reason : .]

6/9/2008 6:04:39 PM

Quote :

"What do you think about what the things Ray [sic] often says?"

Rat is humorous. I don't agree with everything he says because I'm not him. It would be hard to find someone who has the exact same beliefs as I. However, Rat's version of extremism PALES in comparison to the shit that LiusClues is saying. Absolutely pales to the point that no comparison can possibly be made.

6/9/2008 6:07:00 PM

Quote :

"a lot of people also think a rags-to-riches background makes someone qualified to determine policy that encourages other people to have the same story."

i agree with you in theory, but obama proved you can do it with the current policies...

6/9/2008 6:13:51 PM

There was a poster here a while back (more than a year ago) that was in the military that claimed they were talking to a general or someone over McCain back in the days, that basically said McCain was a crappy pilot. It's dumb of LiusClues, for many reasons, to harp on this, but this strategy is equally as dumb as Rat asserting the democrats want to destroy America, and that the US should rule the world with an iron fist.

^ yeah but Clinton proved you could have an amazingly successful economy AND low gas prices with higher taxes. Why do we need McCains feigned fiscal conservatism then?

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 6:16 PM. Reason : ]

6/9/2008 6:15:12 PM

Obama isn't going to lower gas prices, mainly because he can't...so I don't think thats quite fair when discussing Clinton's policies...I mean, gas was even cheaper under Reagan!

6/9/2008 6:19:25 PM

gas was cheaper under Hoover!

6/9/2008 6:33:09 PM

I consider you, Kanien, to be pretty far left from what I've read

It really depends. I absolutely don't believe in socialism (which was proved useless by the communists in history time in time out) but I do fully support the free market with "conditions". However, that being said I can't help but find a fiber in me that finds wars abhorrent (particularly the one we're mired in now) and even starving children unconscionable and unacceptable. These conditions I believe in are taxation for various purposes - namely a fair health system, a fair education system, and support for those in dire need.

Life isn’t just all about economics and wealth...but yet pure free market theory commodifies all. The fact is that statistically some of us get very very unlucky and start the race for success behind the starting line. Just because that happens doesn’t mean we deserve to be left out on the street to die or pepetuate a shit life for ourselves or those around us.

Because of all this I lean left...a welfare liberal state is far more humane than a laissez-faire based one. And well, as a human I’m all for "humaneness".

6/9/2008 6:33:27 PM

Your post has two faces though... You're against socialism, but you want to socialize the very things that are most important: our lives and our health. But fair enough, that's where we differ.


BTW, Lius, here's what would happen if you said the same shit about your country that you did against mine:



Yet, you google Tianenmen Square in China and you get smiling faces.

6/9/2008 6:40:30 PM

Oh I'm sure luisclues is a peacock little:



when it really comes down to it. he wouldn't have the balls to stand there in front of those tanks. don't give him so much credit Oeuvre

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 6:42 PM. Reason : .]

6/9/2008 6:41:36 PM

I didn't say that's what he would do. I said that's what would happen if he ran his mouth in his country like he does in ours.

6/9/2008 7:10:39 PM

6/9/2008 7:40:18 PM

I respect John McCain for his war record and service to this country. However, I don't think his war record is a determining factor in his ability to be the President of the United States. I also believe that the party he is representing has treated the American people like uneducated livestock.

I admired and supported Ronald Reagon's fiscal conservative economics and foreign policy measures, but John McCain is absolutely nothing like him. The Republican Party of 2008 is not just fiscally liberal, they are far worse, they are fiscally irresponsible.

Over the course of two terms, the Republican leadership made the government much bigger, much less productive, and even more in debt than many Americans imagined possible. What we have now are Republicans that are pretending to save people money by sending us laughable rebate checks, while at the same time putting our country in so much debt that only our children's children will see our budget balanced again.

It was a classic bait-and-switch, and most knee-jerk Republicans don't understand what happened. I was once a Republican, when there were real conservative leaders in the party. Unfortunately, I do not trust their direction anymore. The last fiscal conservative in recent memory was a democrat, Bill Clinton.

I'm afraid that my money is very important to me, as is my children's future debt to my country. That is why I am voting for Barack Hussein Obama. I hope you will join me change this nation, and maybe even, the world.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 8:08 PM. Reason : -]

6/9/2008 8:05:32 PM

wait your money is important to you??? And you're voting Obama? LOOK AT THE HANDOUTS HE IS PROMISING THAT WILL NEVER SUNSET! You think our debt and deficit is bad now?

6/9/2008 8:42:38 PM

I think it's also very important to teach the Republican party a lesson. Yes, my money is very important to me, as is my children's money. Not to mention I'm against the war in Iraq, and yet I will always support American troops anywhere they are sent. That fault lies elsewhere, a part of a party... I no longer know.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 8:51 PM. Reason : -]

6/9/2008 8:47:58 PM

Stim I agree with your point about the bush admin and the spending.

But it was your democratic congress that did the stimulus checks and bush. Its also funny that the dems feel that the best way to help the economy is to get more money to the people...then want to raise taxes in their next sentence..

If spending is your major concern, then look no further than the candidates spending proposals. That alone would rule out obama as a viable candidate.

People love to give clinton credit for being fiscally responsible, yet forget the republican congress that blocked many costly proposals..like universal healthcare. That was a great combination back then.

HOwever, obamas spending and democratic congress would be a fiscal and economic disaster.

I think everyone here will agree that our govt spends too much and is terrible inefficient. Thats why I have to vote for the lesser of two evils and vote for the party that will give that mess less control over my daily life.

6/9/2008 8:51:38 PM

Listen, I'm not trying to rule any of you out as individuals, because we share many common values and several ideas on how government should indeed work. However, I simply do not respect the Republican Party right now, period. By principal alone, I will vote against them as an outraged-former-proud-Republican.

^ I'm not a Democrat. Both Clinton and Reagan were fiscal conservatives, but Reagan was my favorite.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 9:06 PM. Reason : -]

6/9/2008 8:56:50 PM

wars eventually end (or at least significantly subside monetarily)...social spending programs usually dont

6/9/2008 8:57:42 PM

Stim, I too feel and felt that same way. I stayed home in 06, like many pissed of republicans and let them lose congress. I cant stay home this go round. If they would have ran a moderate, maybe. But running the most liberal senator and his bs spending proposals, with a dem congress is dangerous. Not only to my paycheck but this country.

6/9/2008 9:02:48 PM

Based on the average of about 6 or so different polls from http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#chart

6/9/2008 9:12:06 PM

Quote :

"most liberal senator"

this has been debunked over and over. he IS a liberal senator. but using a more scientific method and counting all votes as a journal article did recently, obama ranks 10th most liberal. the national journal said john kerry was the most liberal senator when he was running for president as well. hm. i wonder why that could have been. . .

6/9/2008 9:14:54 PM

10th out of how many?

6/9/2008 9:18:28 PM

out of the united states senators. so 100.

6/9/2008 9:20:11 PM

republicans wish mccain was more conservative...why do democrats try to downplay how liberal their candidate is?

6/9/2008 9:20:34 PM

i'm not trying to downplay anything. i'm putting the more reputable number out there.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 9:21 PM. Reason : not that i'm a dem or anything]

6/9/2008 9:21:01 PM

So i should feel better that he went from 1 to 10 in the more scientific way of calculating it? Are you serious. Think about it.

sari, just for comparision, under your way of calculating it. Where did Kerry rank?

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 9:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/9/2008 9:23:14 PM

i don't know. i usually feel better when i use better information than subjective crap

"my" way. hah. lemme find the article. i actually read about it months ago, so i might not be able to find it. but i'll try.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 9:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/9/2008 9:24:45 PM

didnt kerry vote for the war in 03 when obama didnt? thats just one criterion though

6/9/2008 9:26:35 PM

sari, I didnt mean to imply it was actually YOUR own view of it, just the information you introduced. Thats all.

I am curious as to how kerry ranked in the media you mentioned.

6/9/2008 9:28:23 PM

Quote :

"Clinton presided over the longest period of peace-time economic expansion in American history, which included a balanced budget and a reported federal surplus. Based on Congressional accounting rules, at the end of his presidency Clinton reported a surplus of $559 billion. Clinton left office with an approval rating at 65%, the highest end of office rating of any President since World War II."

He was a good leader and I think he deserves a lot of credit as a fiscal conservative. He was no Reagan though, but I was pleasantly surprised by his success as a centrist pimp.

V It's always a factor. I just doubt the overall situation was as remarkable as Clinton's leadership and administrative talent. The avid Republicans deserve some credit no doubt, but Clinton was a wiser President than the Republicans were politicians. It forced the Republicans to really use all of their power to uproot him.

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 9:45 PM. Reason : -]

6/9/2008 9:29:59 PM

stim, im not trying to take anythign away from clinton. I was trying to show you how having a republican congress helped with the surplus by downing some huge spending proposals. IMO clinton could have done alot of things better. But the combo of president and congress back then is much better than the shit we have now.

6/9/2008 9:35:32 PM

this isn't the same ranking (the thing i remember was a peer-reviewed journal), but this is a similar sort of ranking that takes all votes for 2007-2008 session

http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?member=HI1&search=selectScore&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=29&y=5

but this one actually ranks obama 43 and kerry 13.

i'll look harder for the one i'm thinking of (it was iterative, iirc)

john mccain ranks 82nd most liberal, for reference.

interestingly, if you order by lifetime scores, mccain is 60th most liberal

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 9:38 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 9:40 PM. Reason : .]

6/9/2008 9:37:18 PM

thanks for looking sari.

One thing Ive noticed lately there are sure some wacko websites on both sides. Progressiveleft.. leading with the left.. kinda funny.. good tagline.

6/9/2008 9:41:15 PM

I think both of their VP choices will be huge....McCain because he'll probably either croak of old age or start to go senile before his term is up..... and Obama because of his lack of experience.

I'm still up in the air about it....we'll see what happens in the coming months....All politicians are crooks anyways, like every election its just a matter of choosing the lesser of the evils.

6/9/2008 9:44:22 PM

important vp nom because of "lack of experience"?

honestly, i think more people are worried about

6/9/2008 10:12:47 PM

i hope he doesnt get shot. That will led the way for the movement to continue.

"obama wanted everyone...errr.. the rich...sorry.. to pay half in taxes... and ill carry on his legacy"

6/9/2008 10:14:44 PM

i guess

6/9/2008 10:17:01 PM

Quote :

"wars eventually end (or at least significantly subside monetarily)...social spending programs usually dont"

6/9/2008 10:17:30 PM

I'm definitely anti-war, and a fiscal conservative, so the Republican Party is unfortunately out of the question at the moment. They have failed my demographic.

6/10/2008 9:30:28 AM

^to guys like you and others like. i think we need to man-up and realize:

unless the electric car is in mass production..... the day we pull out of iraq and afghanistan is the day gas hits $10+ or > at your local gas station.

don't believe me, just ask iran what they have planned.

6/10/2008 9:40:40 AM

To sum up the stupid ass military experience argument:

Presidents with no military experience

* John Adams
* Thomas Jefferson
* John Quincy Adams
* Martin Van Buren
* Grover Cleveland
* William Taft
* Woodrow Wilson
* Warren Harding
* Calvin Coolidge
* Herbert Hoover
* Franklin Roosevelt
* Bill Clinton
You can nit pick this list as much as you want, but a lot of good presidents are on that list.

Military experience is negligible. The "Commander in Chief" argument completely ignores every other facet of being President.

6/11/2008 12:27:07 AM